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Message started by teggy on 01/03/13 at 18:11:46

Title: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/03/13 at 18:11:46

Was wondering if anyone has any information on sending their head out for machining. Mine appears to have large amounts of scoring around the cam and it appears if the previous owner didn't know he had to change the oil. My bike also has a aftermarket exhaust on it and the stock jets are still in the carb. I'm going to re-jet with Lancers Jets, but the exhaust is blue half way down the pipe. Pretty hot I woulld say, so I would like to have the head checked for straightness as well as cracks. Any info is appriciated. Thanks in advance

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by ZAR on 01/03/13 at 18:19:22

teggy posting your locale will help us help you. It's kind of hard to suggest a machine shop without knowing where you are.

Having said that,your best bet is to find a local independent bike shop and get to be friends with the folks there. They will be worth a small fortune!

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/03/13 at 18:29:02

Yeah I guess that would help although I'm not opposed to shipping it either. I'm from about 60 miles west of Chicago.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/03/13 at 18:29:48

Pic of head.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/03/13 at 18:38:16

Pic of exhaust

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/04/13 at 08:47:19

If you can clean the bearing surfaces up on the cam & get a light set up so we can see what kinda shape theyre in, that would help. Same for the head. KInda looks like the end nearest the chain is injured.
Whats all the shiny, sparkly stuff in the pics?

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by Dave on 01/04/13 at 11:08:15

514E484F52556454645C4E42093B0 wrote:

I think the shiny sparkly stuff is just the reflection of the camera flash on the oil surfaces.......and maybe dust in the air?

I am with JOG and agree that at this point you need to do a little more work to take it apart and get things cleaned up before you decide what to do. Remove the cam and take some find sandpaper and clean off any aluminum that has transferred onto the cam journals. We used to do this frequently on lawn mower engines that had the aluminum transfer material onto the steel cranks. Then clean the head and head cover and see if the bearing surfaces are boogered. I believe there are wear limits listed in the Clymer manual - and if you assemble the cam and head covers and use some plastic gauge to measure the clearances - you can determine if you can just put some good lube on and put it back together and run it. The bearing surfaces on the bottom side are probably worn the most - as that is where the pressure from the cam chain and from the valve springs is supported. You need to take the cam out before you can see what those look like.

The only way that I think the head can be salvaged if the cam journals are toast.....is to take the head and head cover to a machine shop. They could machine a bit off the head cover, then bolt the head cover back on and resize the cam journals........at that point you might as well just buy a used head somewhere as I doubt this would come cheap.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/04/13 at 18:37:24

The shiny sparkly stuff is debris on the cam itself. I will disassemble more over the weekend and take more pics.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by engineer on 01/05/13 at 05:19:57

Oldfeller posted pictures and instructions for repairing worn journals. It is definitely worth reading. You'll find it on page 7 of the technical posts and it's called Simplified Refitting of Cam Bearing Journals.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/05/13 at 15:54:58

Motor torn down to casual part (piston) I guess all the blow by from the rings is where the oil was coming from.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/05/13 at 15:56:51

Cam has a large groove on loab side

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/05/13 at 15:58:45

Chain side cam

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/05/13 at 15:59:41

cam journals

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/05/13 at 16:00:42

piston

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/05/13 at 16:01:50

The wrist pin was also scored as well as the inside of the piston where the wrist pin rides.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/06/13 at 12:34:20

Youll need a fair amount of your favorite jelly.

Everything I see is toast.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/07/13 at 07:13:18

wuzzatmean?

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/07/13 at 16:19:38

No it's toast all right. I'm sending the jug out to a local machine shop and am going to order a new piston and ring set along with a wrist pin. I think I can clean up the head and install a new cam. It's my winter project and so far I'm having fun with it.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by Dave on 01/07/13 at 17:42:20

7B6A68687639363A0F0 wrote:

You are going to order the Wiseco......aren't you?

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/08/13 at 17:58:33

Where would I find that piston and will it fit the existing bore?

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by jvdb on 01/08/13 at 18:21:14

4B5A58584609060A3F0 wrote:

Where would I find that piston and will it fit the existing bore?

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1328568686

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by Lucaisrussell on 01/08/13 at 21:05:12

Hey man when I pulled apart my motor not to long ago it looked pretty similar. The previous owner took care of it, changed the oil regularly. My c-clip holding the wrist pin achually popped out and it rode against the cylinder wall, wrist pin was stuck.. Yes, had to beat it out with a hammer to release from connecting arm, and my cam journals were all kinds of messed up. Rocker arms and cams were far gone and this is all after 14000 miles. My suggestion to you is to check out your oil pump because the damage that was done looks like oil depravation.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/13 at 14:47:17

Before I spent a lot of $$ on it Id do whatever "Fix It" job you think you need to do to the head. YOull be sad if you get all that $$$ spent & cant save the head. YOU mite be well ahead buying a used motor.,BUT,, How can ya know whats inside that cast aluminum "Box"?..

REcommend ya move slow, spend a few days just thinking about it.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by SALB on 01/09/13 at 14:53:22

My first thought when I saw that was "I wonder what the crank journals and transmission/clutch look like?" :-/

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by teggy on 01/09/13 at 19:15:41

The bottom end looks real good. No metal debris at all. I have looked for used motors and all of them I find are in the area of $700 or more, and let's face it you have to wonder whats wrong with them? Fix what I have seems to be the best solution at this point. It ran when I got it and it appears to be in good shape on the bottom end. The oil pump is a great question. I wonder what kind of shape it's in also. I just ordered a shop manuel for it and was wondering on how to check it. Any information on that would be great. ;)

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/13 at 05:23:06

The only way I can even imagine to actually check the oil pump would be to get the side dammed off so it will hold oil with the clutch cover off & spin the poo outta the pump gear.

Title: Re: Head Work
Post by Boofer on 01/10/13 at 19:43:14

I kinda' enjoy having to wiggle the steering wheel on my 1986 C20 Chevy to get it to crank. I don't mind the coat hanger signal light splints secured with electrical tape on my Savage. I don't mind that my tachometer on my Mazda pickup has to be bumped to work, but man, with no real journal inserts and depending on the cam fitting more or less perfectly, plus the piston, I would call it toast, also. And I wouldn't put it back without a look in the bottom end. My opinion. I'm not rich. Can't afford a chance like that. :)