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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> oil pouring out of air box /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1355682339 Message started by teggy on 12/16/12 at 10:25:39 |
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Title: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/16/12 at 10:25:39 OK I just purchased a 06 S40 and I have oil pouring out of the air box after riding it. Blow by? Piston and rings? Help |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by verslagen1 on 12/16/12 at 10:31:16 check the oil level 1st, overfull conditions will blow oil thru the breather into the box. Next, why is it overfull? don't know how to check? gas in crankcase? the crankcase only take 2 qts http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Oil01web.jpg http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1099572561 download and read http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1138554254 |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/16/12 at 10:40:52 I just changed the oil B4 the ride of 40 miles and only put in 2 quarts pet the specs. Oil level on the sight glass was a little over half and now does not register on the glass at all. seems like its pumping it out through the carb and exhaust? Is there a problem with piston and rings on these bikes? Or am I looking at other isssues? I'm a little puzzled. Thanks for you info in advance. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by verslagen1 on 12/16/12 at 10:45:00 did you drain the airbox when you changed the oil? needs to be drained every time. not thru the carb... thru the breather. did you drop it? |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Serowbot on 12/16/12 at 11:25:24 How much oil came out when you drained it?.. It is common for noob's to use the wrong bolt to drain... Sure you got the oil drain plug?... Open your airbox and see how much liquid is in there... |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Demin on 12/16/12 at 12:16:30 Hmmmm.Learned something new...again.I've never looked in my airbox,except to check/replace filter.I've never drained it. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/16/12 at 12:17:55 I'm sure I got the right plug 2 qts. came out when I drained it. The air box had so much oil come out of it I had to put a drain pan under it. When a helper tipped the bike about a quart total I bet. I drained the oil again and only had a quart left in it after only 40 mile trip. I may be a noob to this machine, but have owned and maintained bikes for 20 plus years. I'm confused by this one though. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/16/12 at 12:22:28 392A3D3C232E282A217E4F0 wrote:
The breather on the rocker cover? It appears to be a hose that goes to the middle of the frame of the bike. Maybe I'm missing something? Quote:
I didn't drop the bike and am unsure |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by verslagen1 on 12/16/12 at 12:29:59 breather hose goes from the head/valve/rocker cover to the airbox on the left side. Usually, the only thing that causes this is overfilling the oil. Possibly, they left the scrubbie out of the head cover when they did some maintenance. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/16/12 at 13:59:00 I have now removed the breather hose to inspect for oil. The hose is clean with no trace of oil. I then removed the carb. to find oil in the intake boot from air box to carb. I then dis-assembled the carb ad it's full of oil also. It seems as if I hade bad rings. :-[ |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Dave on 12/16/12 at 15:46:57 I would disconnect the breather hose from the head, then install a temporary hose to the breather and just run it down to the bottom of the frame. Then go for a ride and see if the oil and/or combustion mix comes out the pipe. If there is a lot of blow by - then it could be rings and/or the missing scrubby. If there is little or no blow by and no oil comes out the breather pipe - then maybe the valve seals are letting oil into the intake tract. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Oldfeller on 12/16/12 at 19:39:57 Teggy, we are talking to you about overfilling the oil, and you are talking back saying you don't have that problem. But it occurs to me you have never told us exactly how you do judge your fill level with the bike being held straight upright & vertical. How do you manage to see inside the little oil window while you are holding your bike straight up & tilt-free perfectly upright? Sounds easy, but sounds easy isn't always easy to do. ============ I like Dave's idea about re-routing your top of head big round rubber huff tube temporarily, except I'd put it going right on up to the handle bars so you can see what it is doing going on down the road. I'd tape off the mating nipple on the airbox shutting it off completely and I'd clean all the oil out that is in the air box now, as well as the half carburetor of oil you say you already have gotten. Start off clean on this test pass. Wear old clothes and carry a rag to stuff over it if it gets nasty -- the huff tube is called that for a reason. It huffs (puffs and then inhales) one full displacement worth for each RPM done. Then take a spin with your oil level set correctly with the window and vertical upright bike and the readily visible huff tube, then report what you see after doing that test. Required test |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by ZAR on 12/16/12 at 20:31:17 33323A3E39570 wrote:
Same here :o . As long as I'm learnin I'm still alive...right? |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Serowbot on 12/16/12 at 21:34:24 73687B290 wrote:
Same here :o . As long as I'm learnin I'm still alive...right? [/quote] Feller's... there's a little tube that drops down from the airbox under the bike... it's just in front of the swingarm.. should have a little cap on the end... every oil change,.. you should pull that cap and let the blowby drain... it ain't usually much, but it adds up... If'n we had us a chain,.. we could use it as a drip oiler... Highly EPA illegal of course... :-?... |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by DavidOfMA on 12/17/12 at 07:20:35 2533243921343922560 wrote:
Same here :o . As long as I'm learnin I'm still alive...right? [/quote] Feller's... there's a little tube that drops down from the airbox under the bike... it's just in front of the swingarm.. should have a little cap on the end... every oil change,.. you should pull that cap and let the blowby drain... it ain't usually much, but it adds up... If'n we had us a chain,.. we could use it as a drip oiler... Highly EPA illegal of course... :-?... [/quote] Is letting the blowby drain through that tube all that needs to happen in order to drain the airbox? That, I do, but I've never done anything else to drain it. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Charon on 12/17/12 at 07:58:00 If everything works as it should, the hose will never even fill to the level of the bottom of the airbox. On some bikes, the hose is clear plastic instead of black, so you can see whether it is getting filled up. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by verslagen1 on 12/17/12 at 08:31:24 09323F2839352E28333B36295A0 wrote:
If you're pukin' that much oil... I'd put a can under it as you don't want to be oilin' the tire. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/17/12 at 10:39:04 684B4341424B4B4255270 wrote:
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/17/12 at 10:42:34 213225243B3630323966570 wrote:
If you're pukin' that much oil... I'd put a can under it as you don't want to be oilin' the tire.[/quote] Oh man after I got home I was suprised I didn't lay her down with the amount of oil on the rear tire. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/17/12 at 10:58:31 Thank You for all the advise you have given me to this point: I have done the following to the machine since I discoverd the problem 1.) Changed the Oil with a new filter. (Drained out 2 qts and added 2 qts.) 2.) Had my brother sit on the bike while I checked the site glass on the right side of the bike which was between half and full. (looked good to me) 3.) On the inital ride bike ran real good, power was good and bike seemed to pull like it should, then as the bike warmed up it lost power and had a hard time reaching speeds of 55 and greater. Then it started to die out at the 30 mile mark. Running but barly at the 40 mile mark. Oil now was all over the rear tire, exhaust and the air box was half full of oil. Not good at all. 4.) Breather hose was clean and dry. Pulled carb off to find it full of oil as well as all intake boots. 5.) pulled engine and am now going to see if I can find any damage to the head, piston etc. I know I have a unique problem here and can't seem to find the root cause, and when I do if I can figure out how to post pics I will. Thanks in advance for your input. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by verslagen1 on 12/17/12 at 11:34:00 It's hard to believe that someone passed on to you a seriously damaged bike. Take lots of pict's as you may need them in the near future. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/17/12 at 12:30:16 5A495E5F404D4B49421D2C0 wrote:
The good news is I only paid a nickel for it!!!! ;) I have done a little more reasearch and found that a bad fuel petcock may be my culprit if the diaphram is stuck it could cause a vacuume allowing the carb to suck in oil from the crankcase. Ever heard of this? |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by verslagen1 on 12/17/12 at 12:46:16 7D6C6E6E703F303C090 wrote:
OK, looks like someone dumped a problem on you. Bad petcock, sucking oil up from the crankcase ::) There's little chance unless you store your bike upside down. I think you'll find the problem under the head cover. either a bad rtv job or a pore in a bad casting. Both I'd give a nickle to see. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Oldfeller on 12/18/12 at 01:43:50 Teggy seems to want to do the same exact thing over and over, he won't pull his huff tube and put it up where he can see it (so he will never discover if his huff tube is moving the oil or not.) He won't perform a simple test as described. He won't listen to the skilled helpers. Hey, Teggy -- have you ever performed a compression check on your bike? If your rings are shot, stuck, piston burned, etc. a compression check will show this to you instantly, it is a fairly simple test to do. Dude, for oil in the quantity you are talking about to wind up in your air box some large blow by HAS to go by the rings to pick up oil froth from the sump that has migrated to the upper part of the engine. The only past problems of this sort that have ever been seen is blow by gas through the rings and huff tube, massive blow by gas flow driving oil froth along with it. (and yeah, you can do it simply by putting too much oil in the bike) Not through your mysterious, never before seen "crack in an oil passage bearing head casting that connects to the air box". Dude, the carburetor and air box never connects to a pressurized oil passage, ever. The huff tube is the only connection that exists between the engine and the air box. However, that huff tube IS connected to the head near an oil source and the huff tube IS pressurized by blow by gases and the huff tube CAN move oil in the large quantity you describe, given enough piston blow by volume which you still don't know about since you didn't put your huff tube's end up where you can see it do it. But you refuse to perform the huff tube to the handle bars test so you will never know. If you don't do the recommended tests, we can't help you understand your bike's issues any better. Give you a last clue in passing, your vac petcock isn't connected to the oil system, ever, at all. Good luck with your oil in air box problems, dude. Shame you won't listen to us and find out what that causes it. Post us some pictures of what you finally discover as the cause of your problem, just for curiosity's sake. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Johansson on 12/18/12 at 16:20:08 I'd of pulled the plug rather than the the engine. Rings that bad, might just look behind you, you would see a lot of smoke. A lot of smoke. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/18/12 at 18:36:08 Ok for the record since I came here seeking help and seem to only have found criticism. I changed the oil and added 2 qts. after changing it. Checked it using the site glass with the cycle standing straight up. It's not over full!!!! Rode it 40 miles and half the oil was either in the air box, on the frame or on the rear tire. After removing the exhaust I found oil there too. Shocking right? I PULLED THE PLUG AND ONLY A QUART CAME OUT! Oldfeller, I can't belive you would actually change into your worst clothing you own and mount the HUFF line on the handle bars to see if 180 to 220 degree hot oil would spray on you. Call me crazy, but I'm not stupid. And if you actually took the time to read my post you would see that I said the huff line is clean and clear of oil. I don't know the history of the bike and in my original post I said I just bought it and was wondering if there was any known problems, obviously there isn't! Since I have the engine out I plan on re ringing it and changing all gaskets since it has an external leak anyway. (Removal only took an hour anyway) Oldfeller, why such an attitude? Are you not supposed to support new people to your site rather than run them off? OF Mainly because you keep posting impossible things. Huff tubes always have oily residue inside them, that's their job to take oily nasty blow by out of the top of the engine and route it down to the airbox for emissions recycling. For you to have a completely clean huff tube is ---- unusual. Oil doesn't magically migrate to the airbox and carburetor, it requires a pathway to get there. And you keep talking about "other things" that don't connect the two items. So, you've pulled your engine down and that's good --- this thread is done. |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by Serowbot on 12/18/12 at 19:08:56 Tegg,.. a leaky petcock diaphragm would cause an airbox full of oily gas... ...but the crankcase would be overfull rather than short... (gas would also leak down into the case)... There is a Petcock test in the tech section if you want to check it... Since your engine is out,... just try sucking on the vacuum line and see if you get any gas coming down it... (there should be none)... PS... I also wonder if it could be our famous head plug.. with the unusual circumstance of having popped out completely?... I can't imagine that the bike would run at all, if it was leaking that much past the rings... Anyway,.. just a few ideas... best luck... ;)... |
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Title: Re: oil pouring out of air box Post by teggy on 12/18/12 at 20:01:18 No need for pics on this one she's got shrapnel everywhere! Previous owner neglected beyond repair. Can't believe it actually ran! |
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