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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rocker Arm design change
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Message started by MeLikeBike on 12/14/12 at 07:32:05

Title: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/14/12 at 07:32:05

Hi all,
I ordered a new set of rocker arms because mine were worn. On the BikeBandit site that I'd ordered from, there were two different arm part numbers, and the online stores that know what year Savage I have (a 2003) recommended a specific pair, so I ordered them.

And of course they are different than what was in the bike. Anyone know if these are swappable parts? The bracing on the arms looks different, but the distances between the valve contacts measure the same.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by verslagen1 on 12/14/12 at 08:20:46

Some info here would be appropriate... mfr, p/n, pic.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/15/12 at 07:31:07

Sure...I didn't have the info when I originally posted, and thought someone would be familiar enough to answer...but here goes.

See attached photos...they are Suzuki OEM parts, 12840-07F00 (intake) and 12850-07F00 (exhaust). I found these through my local bike shop's OEM part finder. http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/bentleysmotorcycles/Suzuki_OEM/SuzukiMC.asp?Type=13&A=338&B=4
The images in the microfiche match my bike's original ones. And those are the part numbers that match the labels on the new parts, which look different.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/15/12 at 07:31:41

and the other:

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/15/12 at 07:37:57

And here are the comparisons. Original on left, new on right.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/15/12 at 07:38:21

Here's the exhaust (if you look at the pad on the cam follower, you can see what my problem is...nice .75mm carving of the pad by the cam.)

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/15/12 at 07:38:41

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/15/12 at 07:39:01

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by Serowbot on 12/15/12 at 08:53:16

Wonder if there's a weight difference?...

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by verslagen1 on 12/15/12 at 09:02:38

from your OP, I thought you were buying aftermarket parts.
the part number is a generic number, rocker arm, design F00
and probably is used in several engines.
some parts have gone from a bike specific part number "24B" to a generic number over the years as they try to cut costs.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/15/12 at 09:24:49

original exhaust arm 143g
new exhaust arm 158g

original intake arm 132g
new intake 143g

I doubt the pad wear is enough to make up the difference (especially with the tiny amount of wear on my original intake arm)

Some googling on the part number shows this:

http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/detail/suzuki/SP-12840-37401.html

so the 37401 is superseded by the 07F00.

When it doubt, ask Google. This is backed up by

http://www.suzukisavage.lt/upl/file/manual/PDF07-ls650-parts-list.pdf

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by paulmarshall on 12/15/12 at 09:51:57

3925282B20294D0 wrote:

http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/detail/suzuki/SP-12840-37401.html
Whats the difference between a 1978 LS650F Cam Shaft Value and a 1987 LS650P Can Shaft Value?

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by Serowbot on 12/15/12 at 10:29:53

5243574E4F4350514A434E4E220 wrote:

Whats the difference between a 1978 LS650F Cam Shaft Value and a 1987 LS650P Can Shaft Value?

9?... :-?...

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by ralfyguy on 12/15/12 at 10:45:50

Looks like the new style is meatier and stiffer. It may also more resistant to thermal expansion. Perhaps this was changed in order to have less issues with valve gap adjustment.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by Cavi Mike on 12/15/12 at 11:52:06

I'm guessing they revised it because one valve wasn't opening as far as the other due to the longer arm flexing. The new design looks like it allows both arms to flex equally. Obviously I'm just speculating but that is a substantial revision - new molds are not cheap and that required a completely new mold so there had to be a reason for it. Considering I've never heard of one of these breaking before - even from guys with high-lift cams -the only other reason to revise it would be flex.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by Charon on 12/15/12 at 12:39:42

Too bad they didn't change it to a roller follower, too.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by LANCER on 12/16/12 at 04:36:15

They could be the rockers used on the '90-'95 DR6650.
The cam, valves and orientation of valves are the same as the LS650 head.
The camshaft core is the same but has bigger lobes, the valves and springs are the same size, though the springs may be a bit stiffer...not positive of that off hand.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by Super Thumper on 12/23/12 at 20:37:30

You can send your old rocker arms to Web Cams and have them hard-welded and reground for $95.00...I am shipping mine out to them the day after Christmas but be advised you need to call them first.

Here's the link:

http://www.webcamshafts.com/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/12 at 08:02:51

Cam ate the follower pretty good,, Hows that cam lookin?
Would now be a good time to step up to a hotter cam?

Any idea why it ate that follower?

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/24/12 at 09:48:43

Thanks for the link, but I got mine already. Seems like a lot of trouble to refinish when you can get them new for about $100, right?

534D44484649554E4F210 wrote:

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by MeLikeBike on 12/24/12 at 09:50:27

I got no idea...the cam looks fine (to the eye anyway). No grooves, scratches, anything. Maybe the rocker metal is softer enough to take the brunt of the abuse, however it was abused. It's interesting that the exhaust was so much more worn.

4A555354494E7F4F7F47555912200 wrote:

Cam ate the follower pretty good,, Hows that cam lookin?
Would now be a good time to step up to a hotter cam?

Any idea why it ate that follower?

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by paulmarshall on 12/24/12 at 09:53:46

I would be very interested to hear of any performance improvement.
Photos too please. :D

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/25/12 at 11:06:09

Its just MY OOOOpinion, But, I believe that running valves too loose allows the cam to slam into the follower more than just start to ride up the slope of the cam. IDK if that can hurt them, but I would rather keep my valves on the tight side of the adjustment.

Title: Re: Rocker Arm design change
Post by hexnut on 12/25/12 at 13:42:12

As the valve seat and face wear, they get tighter. If allowed to get too tight performance will suffer and valves can burn.

Too loose will result in excess valve clatter and of course performance can suffer as well.

As stated above too loose could have contributed to the rocker arm wear as could poor heat treating from the factory. Using the wrong weight and type of oil can be a factor as well.