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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Wintel, the beginning of the end /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1355088872 Message started by Oldfeller on 12/09/12 at 13:34:32 |
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Title: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/09/12 at 13:34:32 I guess the analogy is more of a tag team wrestling match than a marriage now, you whup up on the first one and they stagger to the ropes and slap their partner's hand. Then a fresh player comes in and wrestles with the problems. http://liliputing.com/2012/12/intels-red-ridge-android-tablet-prototype-hits-the-fcc.html ..... yup, this is big news, enough to rename the article to make it clear Intel is coming out Android. The Wintel marriage is over, they are just friends with benefits now. Bay Trail This is going to be Intel's "rabbit out of the hat" phone chip and tablet product. This is the new high performance Bay Trail chip that Intel actually hopes will be competitive in tablet and phone space. Competitive pricing out of the gate could be everything on this one. Historically, Intel isn't really good on initial pricing. And, what is NOT CLEAR YET is if this is going to be a MS operating system or an Android operating system. The chip will support both. One is tempted to assume MS, but who knows until some clear data is announced. New Info -- If you read the new spec sheet in the article, it's coming out Android MS "blue" (the first "charge you $40 for it" Win8 Service Pack) will be out about that same time frame ...... look for MS to try try again. But, what is clear is that Intel does not believe that Microsoft's Surface tablets did an adequate job of keeping everybody afloat, and that Intel feels they must act now to preserve their own future inside the phone/tablet space that is so rapidly taking over the consumer consumption side of computing. Look to see Bay Trail inside a table, inside a phone and inside a Next Unit of Computing net-top sized computer box. If Intel comes out using Android on any of these devices at a reduced price, then the Wintel exclusive marrage is functionally over and MS is in real trouble, MS must offer real value instead of just arm twisting. New Info -- If you read the new spec sheet in the article, it's coming out Android :-? ..... but can I talk to my tablet and get an answer back, and can I have my tablet unlock itself by the tablet looking at my face? Intel had better go with Android on one of them then. New Info -- If you read the new spec sheet in the article, it's coming out Android Google and APPLE both carefully note the release timeline and quietly prepare for their prior week release of new competitive products at even yet lower pricing. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/09/12 at 18:26:49 Prediction: Look for Intel to expand their ARM license to full design and to maintain it there from now on. Intel, as a full licensee would have NO REASON to ever be defeated by an ARM innovation, they would simply co-opt the new trick and move on, legally. Intel can design and build a good product, but are they willing to cut their massive internal dead wood to the point they are lean and mean enough to compete in the ARM/Android price range and at the rate that market moves? Remember, this new Bay Trail was over a year in development -- that is moving way too slow for this market. Bay Trail had better be clearly better on performance and energy use than a Quad Core A-15 big LITTLE at a similar price, because that is where the market leaders will be by then. Can Intel woo APPLE back, after APPLE has invested in their own chip design and manufacturing? But it is good to see Intel finally moving off the dime. Hopefully the move is a significant and real one, not just more Intel pre-announcement vapor ware like "the next unit of computing" which was supposed to ship in October and has yet to hit plastic. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/12 at 02:57:49 Intel is serious this time. They have moved their aging CEO out into retirement and they have purged a bunch of PC people and are now hiring phone people with open source backgrounds. "Intel just hired a boatload of new Intel OSTC (Open-Source Technology Center) developers with lots of mobile experience. When Nokia announced they would be banding together with Microsoft for their smart-phone platform and effectively doing away with MeeGo, many viewed this as a great loss for Linux. While Nokia has abandoned Linux for their phones and tablets, it was to Intel's gain. The dozens (circa 80) of developers Intel has just recently hired for the OSTC are former Nokia developers out of Finland. There's a couple well-known (open source, Linux) names in the mix." http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTQyNg |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/12 at 09:39:54 Speaking of Windows phones and Nokia, let's see how that is progressing. Month before last it was all sorts of grim ..... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/19/technology/nokia-posts-loss-as-smartphone-sales-lag.html?_r=0 Then the Win8 phones came out and actually began to sell as all the Microsoft advertising dollars began to pull in the upgraders as their contract phone came due for replacement. (Microsoft has spent more in Win8 TV advertising for tablets and for phones that the Win8 Surface and Phone product profits sold to date would have paid for in total) Then Nokia hit the wall as they could not supply the phones needed to support even the modest 2.5 million sales opportunities that they had in the November time frame. Nokia is the only one making a Windows8 phone right now and they are not in adequate shape to swing up with any large production numbers after losing money so strongly for the last whole year. http://www.gsmarena.com/the_lumia_920_may_have_reached_25m_orders_worldwide-news-5117.php To put things in perspective, during the entire introduction month Nokia has moved less than 3 million Windows8 phones world wide. This is after Microsoft dumped millions into TV promotion for surface and windows phone. APPLE spent zip on advertising during their IPhone 5 intro month and moved over 5 million phones in the first week alone. Total sales for the first 2 months are in the 15-17 million range supposedly. Google did spend some money on TV ads for "The Play Store is Open" and they racked up a total sell out of both Nexus 7 and Nexus 4 inside the first day. They got restocked by Samsung and LG and got sold out again in four days. Total of phones still on backorder exceed 10 million after the first two full production runs were snapped up. A third LG Nexus 4 production run is expected "soon" but is already completely pre-sold (it is mostly going to the carriers first anyway). On the tablet side of things, Amazon and Barnes & Noble have outsold Microsoft as well. ================================ http://www.zdnet.com/three-days-in-the-life-of-a-once-and-former-microsoft-surface-rt-user-7000006421/ Everyone told them this was going to happen, but MS went and did it anyway. Surface open box unit returns rate is "relatively large" ..... People had paid an extra $300 more for a Windows tablet from the Windows company (Microsoft) but the durn thing won't even run my Windows programs. And I can't even get it to talk to me. Here, take this durn thing back and gimme my money back. What? Read my warranty, no returns on opened units ??!!?? .... MS got called on this and lawsuits threatened for misleading advertising and unfair returns policy http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/dabjola/dabjola1202/dabjola120200010/12358197-thoughtful-bald-man-with-antlers-on-head.jpg Wow, these things grow back every time we screw up again ..... Where's Sinofsky? Get his arse out there.... what do you mean we fired him already, we NEED him to hang him up again for these guys to beat on with the pinata sticks and then set fire to. And leave some firewood stacked up outside for the mobs too, those broken up desks and chairs are too expensive to keep on replacing. http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-says-returns-okay-on-opened-surface-rt-product-packaging-7000006472/ The main problem MS has in the phone world is they keep acting like MS, King of Computerdom, instead of like a real "dirt under the fingernails" competitor. They are not considered even highborn in the phone/tablet world right now, heck, right now they have proven again that they aren't even really a competitor at all, really. Nokia is flat being driven into the ground as the one and only exclusive MS phone partner .... And with their low speed to market and repeated fumbles, MS will only fall further and further behind as time and the phone world endlessly evolves. Plus, The Bald Ballmer is spending too much of his time in the bathroom trying to cut his ever self replacing horns off. http://us.cdn3.123rf.com/168nwm/dabjola/dabjola1202/dabjola120200013/12358185-man-with-antlers-on-head-saws-horns.jpg Hey, I said we will fix it --- we will call it Widows RT PRO and you will be able to use regular Windows programs (that meet the RT PRO requirements) and we will only charge you $899 for a surface tablet with the good software ..... yeah, about a year from now I think, that sounds good to me. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/11/12 at 09:44:07 What is changing into the new phone world reality The phone world is based mainly in the orient now. All of the American players other than APPLE and Google are incidental at this point in time. The major markets are the Orient, Europe and America in that order (see the order that new products are shipped in to see the pecking order). The oriental players are pushing their own devices to market now, quicker than the old school big boys can do -- and aimed at themselves as the target market. APPLE and Google still point their efforts at the USA first as their focus and their main market share is there. They are the only ones still "at speed" in the phone market. you can add Amazon and Barnes & Noble to the group if you are talking tablets also. Oddly enough, the Asians like their native language Android as their main computing system OS and they can live quite well computing wise off of a cell phone and having an Android dongle attached to their TV. Deeply discounted or fully pirated copies of other OS systems are available to them if they want them for a traditional desktop at the office. Linux and desktop anything does not enter into the oriental retail mental picture very much, except as some marginal additional sales that happen almost incidentally. This time round, Allwinner did NO linux support at all on the two A7 chipsets, and says they have no plans for doing it either since all their current efforts are on the new wave of A53 products they are very rapidly developing. None of their competitors are spending any effort to do any development beyond getting Android 4.x to run on their products. Given the current very short time to market, the A53 products will be here with their 64 bit entanglements before the Linux community has done anything much on the Allwinner A7 quad core product very much at all. The dual core A7 product can have Linux developed fairly easily, but the Linux folks may see it as "too low" of a product to be worth a lot of effort as they are currently busting their chops to get the A9 quad cores up and running. It will go into absolutely low end interim products anyway. A15 quad core chipsets will likely get the effort, as they are the star players of this generation of ARM chipsets. But remember, Linux development takes part of a year to do, so in this realm expect large bits of the phone world flow to get skipped completely over as they simply went by too fast .... |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/11/12 at 10:03:28 APPLE Why is the phone and tablet world moving always faster and faster and faster? Why are traditional mainstream American computing companies one by one tossing in the towel and finding other things to go do? What company owns 40% of ARM Holdings and gets all the new stuff ahead of everyone else? What company likes to have its frantic fan club replace their current gizmo EVERY SINGLE YEAR with a new "latest and greatest" product. What company likes to grab up somebody else's invention as "Their Innovation" and then selectively sue their competitors for doing the same thing next year? What company lives and breathes and MUST HAVE the next new latest and greatest thing to feed its next latest greatest product introduction splash? Who is the 800 pound gorilla in the American computer world right now? |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/11/12 at 21:35:42 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jun/14/nokia-survival-question-10000-jobs-cut Wow, Windows8 phones are going to be in real short supply next year if Nokia does indeed shut the doors to their last manufacturing plants at 2012 year's end. Nokia's fate is now in Microsoft's hands. Nokia is asking Microsoft to buy them out and infuse xxx million in capital if the Finnish company's production lines are to run again next year. Nokia went from a market leader to almost out of business in two short years because they chose to listen to Microsoft and did not come out with a competing Android phone. Windows7 phone sales were slim for the two years and then tanked totally when Windows8 phone was announced. Now Nokia can't manage to make but 3 million phones in a month's time with all their current internal troubles, which means even if Windows8 phones could sell more, they can't produce the phones at a greater rate. I would hate to be Nokia right now, having to trust that the Bald Ballmer to do the right thing by you .... Ballmer needs to lower the cost of the Windows8 phone and the easiest way to do that is find an oriental manufacturing partner for his phones. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/12/12 at 09:34:07 Windows 8 success story ..... Windows 8 crosses the minimum popularity boundary and is counted "a market success" by the Bald Ballmer. And you will note that Windows 8 is more popular than Android, too. :o howzzat again? :-? can anybody figure out how they came up with this? Hint: look at the graph legends. OK folks, I guess I need to quit bashing on Windows 8 now, it is officially a success in the marketplace, having surpassed Linux and Android in popularity according to Ballmer's very scientific methods of counting "mentions". http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-8-Is-Officially-More-Popular-than-Linux-307640.shtml http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news-700/Windows-8-Is-Officially-More-Popular-than-Linux.jpg?1353079539 But what is also noteworthy is it took him two whole MONTHS to figure out a metric to use to do this remarkable feat. And one wonders if this includes all the banner ads Microsoft took out over the last few months to get Windows 8 mentioned enough times to get it over the hump mention-wise. Or is it all the folks like me laughing and BASHING on Windows 8 that got the important business metric "mentions" up over the critical limit. http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-employees-allegedly-left-in-droves-during-ballmers-company-meeting-speech/ :D Hey, and since this took place Ballmer has fired Sinosky, "the only man in management who has a vision for the future", in order to save his own butt. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/12/12 at 15:32:55 Back to Intel and back to speaking straight about a straight real news story (as opposed to discussing the Ballmerisms put out by Ballmer) Intel has signaled clearly it intends to compete with ARM chipsets from AMD and all the myrad ARM server players very directly based on features such as speed and current draw. (and mebbe on price too, but we will wait and see on that one). These new chips are being announced at the early vaporware stage to be shipped sometime in 2013, but the good news is that they are things that seem to be headed in the right directions. And these chips are not locked into MS, they can run anybody's operating system. http://liliputing.com/2012/12/intel-introduces-6-watt-atom-s1200-chip-for-servers.html http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/atom-s1200.jpg This says Intel isn't going to just roll over when the plow blade comes and that they do have something to sell to someone if the pricing is correct for that particular market. This market is kinda upscale, but it is something Intel might be able to survive supplying. Why is this worth a post? It is an X86 capable chip that pulls 6 watts, down into the ARM quad core A9 balls-to-the-walls firing full on all cores current draw range. It is unclear if 6 watts is the minimum idle speed current draw or if it is a full speed draw as the ARM chips are currently rated. ARM rates the entire SOC complete with all functions, while Intel in the past has not, they just rate their main chip's functional current draw, so this 6 watt claim may not be completely comparable at this stage. And there still is a sizable gap between Intel's best and ARM's best, 6 watts vs 1.5 watts and 64 bit vs 32 bit difference on the data flow still applies. "Meanwhile, a number of companies—notably Calxeda, with its EnergyCore ARM processor— have been talking about using multiple ARM-based cores to compete in the microserver market. The concept is good, and Calxeda says its processor can draw as little as 1.5 watts for a dual-core server, although it is 32-bit only. This, too, is expected to go into real production in the second half of this year." But, heck, it is still very encouraging compared to the dreck coming out of MS. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Serowbot on 12/12/12 at 17:50:30 "Testing, one, two,... testing, testing"... Tap, tap!,.." is this mic on?"... :-?... "OF,... ...ahhh,..there's nobody in this room"... :-/... Serow... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by verslagen1 on 12/12/12 at 17:55:08 just listening and giggling to myself, much like when jog posts. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/12/12 at 22:03:39 Really? Then you can close my account,m,m giggle some more, jackass. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Serowbot on 12/12/12 at 22:32:09 JOG,.. if you ever leave... I'll lose my partner in crime... :-?... It'll be Jerry without Dean,.. or Dean without Jerry?... :-?... Then,... only the French will like me?... or is that you?... :-/... OMG!,.. if I'm Dean,... only drunks will like me... ... (oh yeah,.. that's probably true now)... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/13/12 at 04:03:52 Then you'll like this next nugget -- MS is going to take all their exclusive, only can be bought at a MS store surface tablets and let Best Buy try to sell them at reduced pricing. ... and now what are they going to do with all those exclusive boutique MS stores? What do you think, after a few months pass? MS, you can't be APPLE, the position is already taken. ========================== And who cares if somebody reads it -- I simply stand amazed at the total passing of the old American computer industry, happening in fast forward speed while I watch and blog about it. But I can stop, if it bothers you ..... |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Serowbot on 12/13/12 at 08:49:47 Noop,.. I'm not modding on you,.. just making a joke... |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Pine on 12/13/12 at 09:29:09 Well.. not that its 100% right for this thread... but I just pulled the trigger on a new MB/CPU combo from newegg... yep my desktop gets new innards AMD 8150 8 core @ 3.6 (replaces my AMD Phenom II x4 @ 3.7) Asus 990 chipset MB 16GB RAM includes closed loop water cooler. The 8150 is not locked and should get 4.4 on water, though I'll be happy 4.0 Cant wait to rebuild my 7yo desktop. I still have not decided on a smartphone yet, though I know it will be andriod. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by houstonbofh on 12/13/12 at 17:31:34 0B2820222128282136440 wrote:
Cool! At a better price, they should make nice Linux Tablets! |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/13/12 at 21:30:08 You are gonna make the Ballmer cry and stick his tongue out at you again .... ..... really, he's got that thing locked down tight so you CAN'T load another OS on it. Ever. Never. http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/files/2007/11/20-ballmer-evil-tongue.jpg ..... never say ever never, sez the smart savvy Linux dudes. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by rfw2003 on 12/15/12 at 19:58:07 2234233E26333E25510 wrote:
Oh I'm following along, I may not be responding to this topic but I have been following it. I have responded to the other 2 on the Arm processor stuff, and I have been playing around with the Hackberry boards that OF had suggested, plus I have a cubieboard that is now on the way, confirmed shipping with a delivery date of Dec 19th now. Might turn that one into a Home automation controller since it has all the GPIO's pulled out to header pins. I've long been interested in the Arm Arch stuff, just been waiting for them to get powerfull enough to take over the x86 Arch and it looks like that may happen in the next few years for at least some applications at least. There will still be a need for x86 hardware though for awhile but who knows maybe RISC might just surpass what we have now and allow Arm Arch to be able to process more then x86 hardware can. Until then I my main development machine will have to stay as a x86 unit with as many cores as I can afford to keep in it. As far as Winblows goes, screw them, for the most part I can get by without any Microsuck software at all, and for the few things that I need that require a Microsuck OS I'm sure they will run in Wine under Linux. Linux is what I do most of my development in anyways. For the OS on the Microsuck side I'll stick with Win7 unless the version after Win8 comes back to a normal looking OS and not a Tablet or Mobile phone interface R.F. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/15/12 at 20:23:20 If nothing else, Intel is getting stirred to go into a new, possibly better direction. (they have announced 6 new lower energy use chips in the last 2 weeks, chips to become real in 2013-14) The fact that INTEL is coming out with a home built Android based INTEL product is certainly a significant step for Intel. Also, it is becoming noticeable that part of the old school x86 programming code base has become a root of a general slow down issue. It is amazing that bloated code in Win8 windows apps can choke down a powerful quad core Intel multi-core processor into being "somewhat sluggish at times", while APPLE and Linux apps can move along right smartly on a whole whole lot less processor and less than a third of the systems memory. Some have even said this code bloat is being done on purpose, to force people into the upgrade cycle for a faster new machine, so as to feed the old school Wintel business model. MS has issues, reality issues some would say. They insist on making products that people don't want. People are beginning to openly discuss Ballmer leaving and there was one fairly serious attempt to oust him already. MS has lots of money and lots of good talent -- why can't they apply that talent into making something that people want, instead of practising bloat and "lock down" maneuvers? Example: my 1core 1 gigahertz processor with 1.5 gig of systems memory is using <50% of the processor and 426 megabytes of systems memory to type this post (w/two windows sitting open) using Linux Mint 9 and Firefox. What is you modern multi-core I-whatzit Intel machine using your modern MS OS and IE 9+ using for resources just to post your reply back ?? :D Jest curious, you know .... |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by rfw2003 on 12/16/12 at 13:37:34 74575F5D5E57575E493B0 wrote:
Only machine I have that uses Spintel is this lappy, Everything else is AMD powered. And yes I know under Winblows it's resource hungry. The processor in this lappy is one of the 3rd gen I7 mobile units though, can't remember which one atm for some reason. Now my workhorse development machine is one of the AMD 8 core processors running water cooling at 4.3ghz and 16gb of ram. Reason I have so much ram is for creating a virtual ram drive for when I'm doing code and I load the whole environment up in that drive and do all the compiling in there, combine that with the 8 cores and I can spit out a full clean compile of Android ICS in about 15 mins. Yes I do all that under Linux as well. Also I haven't used IE in years, been FF fan for many many years. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/16/12 at 20:40:14 Hey, that's actually good, you using Firefox -- this lets us dial out the browser as a difference as well. I am running an AMD processor as well, a single core AMD Athelon 64 bit 3500. So good again, we are running the same brand of processor, similar socket, etc. What does your system monitor reports for processor percent (take the percent usage of each processors, multiply each by the processor speed then add up the per core cycle megahertz counts to get a total ) and the system memory usage to make a simple post. I don't the think the processor being AMD vs Intel is a big part of this equation (especially since we are both AMD) I think the newer OS being fat & sloppy & bloated is the main deal here. Difference shown will be the modern MS operating system vs Linux .... ========= My old 1 core 1 gigahertz processor with 1.5 gig of systems memory is using right at 50% of the processor and 426 megabytes of systems memory to type this post (w/two windows sitting open) using Linux Mint 9 and Firefox. (note: I have Clam AV running on my Linux machine on anything that moves, so yes you can have antivirus running on a Linux machine just to make sure you don't pass anything ugly along to anyone you email or share a file with -- I practice "safe sex" computing as Linux machines can pass along nasties that cannot ever affect the Linux machine itself) Linux is using about 500 megahertz of summed totalled processor cycles and 426 megabytes of systems memory to get the job of posting done using Linux with Clam AV running in the background. ================ Rebooting to XP shows that good ol' XP is pretty light all by itself, I am using from 46% to up to 95% of processor and 342 up to 400 megabytes of system memory (it moves around a lot) to type this line of the post. I suspect background processes required by XP (like Avast anti-virus) are the cause of most of this random processor movement. XP by itself is only 460 megahertz of processor cycles and 342 megabytes of system memory. Interesting that vintage XP by itself is lighter acting than the current modern Linux versions when the anti-virus isn't running, sucking up your processor cycles as an add-on load to push the total load to be a whole lot greater. When the required anti-virus is scanning any activity, the usage level jumps up to 95% momentarily and the systems memory jumps up by 50 megabytes (950 megahertz of processor cycles at ~400 megbytes of systems memory) so your antivirus software takes up about as many processor cycles as your basic XP does. Linux uses a little bit more raw systems memory than my old stripped down XP does by itself, which is interesting to know. ================== Just use FF by itself with nothing else open on your desktop but your normal antivirus, etc. If you report anything much over my Linux or XP usage levels, then it is likely Microsoft's code bloat in the more modern operating system that is making up the difference. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by rfw2003 on 12/17/12 at 05:26:30 Well as I'm typing this on my Laptop, that hasn't been turned off in several days, the processor is showing 0% use but the Ram usage is just a tad over 4gb, alot of that is because of have several things going on in the background along with all the usual resource heavy crap in the MicroSuck OS. Not to mention FF is at a high memory use right now because I've been watching Netflix movies all night and need to close FF down and re open it to clear out it's Ram buffer as it just keeps building and building when it uses the silverlight plugin that is required for Netflix streaming. I normally close out FF about twice a day depending on how much I stream off of Netflix because of that issue. Also my Ram usage may be alittle higher then most because I disable swap since I use a SSD on both my Lappy and my main development machine as well since I have plenty of Ram. 8Gb on the lappy and 16Gb on the Development machine. |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/18/12 at 02:25:39 Zero processor and 4 gigs of systems memory in use. Wow :o Sounds like MS has found the secret of perpetual motion with that zero percent of processor used. :D (or else MS System Monitor doesn't like to play with FF, which is the sort of thing MS likes to do as much as the law will allow, anyway) |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/18/12 at 02:48:36 Well, there have been some new Linaro Conferences in Europe this past weekend, where most of the ARM and Linaro dudes were presenting A53 and A57 systems intergration and talking about integrating 64 bits into the Linux kernel and all the various sub systems. Kernel 3.7.x will come out with all the stock ARM drivers for all of the ARM chipsets all the way up through 64 bit A53/57. It will come out with all the Mali graphics drivers built in, up through Mali 678 (16 graphics cores). Big LITTLE is totally cooked now and is already in the kernel, coming out in 3.7.x. What was discussed in some boring detail was the secret driver boys, specifically VR graphics which are held under total non-disclosure by VR. This sucks for consumerdom, because APPLE uses VR graphics and so do most of the other "retina display" chipsets that have been released to date. VR won't play with open source at all as their whole competitive advantage must be kept a total secret or they have no advantage in the marketplace at all. Linus isn't going to accept those chips into the kernel until the providers offer "comprehensive driver packages" which will enter into the open source agreement just like everybody else does. VR won't do this. So, new ARM chipsets running Mali graphics will be fully supported by Linux for updates, etc. right in the kernel updates going out into the future, chipsets where the vendor won't release his drivers won't be. Android's upcoming merge back into the mainstream kernel was discussed, with all custom video drivers guys being very pointedly excluded. Android vendors have been told and shown what they must do to be supported by future releases of Android and Linux. Issue becomes that the Chinese simply don't care -- if they can tweek up something to put on a prom that works "good enough" at time of point of sale with their "as shipped custom version of Android" they are not looking back at all (there is no post sale software support in China, period). We got your money, dude ..... Korean companies are not quite that bad, but close to it. So, look for a great ARM divide to develop in the future, between the fully supported and upgradable products and the cheaper "works as shipped" products. "Linaro Android/Linux Certified" will be come a cert to look for when buying stuff. ========================== new stuff A53 and A57 are coming out as a 64 bit "sea of cores" implementation. You can mix and match ANY mixture of A53 and A57 cores in any quantity your want. Things given in the slide show as future examples are kinda scary, one single A53 core and count them (12) A57 cores for a heavy duty video redering workstation was shown as an "completely competitive low cost" system configuration that is supposed to cost 1/4 as much as a current video workstation. For low energy server farms, an endlessly expandable system of A53 or A57 cores on plug in cards (each card carries the proper support systems memory and I/O chips) -- you just hot plug in whatever mixture of cards you need for your current workload configuration and if the workload shifts or grows on you over time, well you just shift your mix of processor cards accordingly. A power user with a workstation type set up could add whatever he wanted, so the built in expandability means you could buy into a supercomputer system over time if you wanted to go play that way. You would never become "obsolete" again. (yeah, right) Low end cell phone and tablet systems would be A53 driven, in dual, quad, and octa configurations. Laptops and desktops would have a mix of a few A53 and some "increasing according to max processing load needs" A57 cores. Android/Linux will be continuously upgraded to use all the cores using the ARM/Linaro developed core management system, so yes finally multicore computing will get USED properly by software. This will be the case from kernel 3.7.x forward. NOT A WORD WAS SAID ABOUT MICROSOFT -- they had no presence at the conference at all. Intel was there, to promise ongoing competing processors that would run Android/Linux natively and offer "superior value". Intel intends to compete, not conform. But they will offer over complete driver packages to the kernel group in advance of each new product offering. This means the 6 new chips they promise for 2013 just got moved back into 2014 since once they have build them they have to get the support drivers into the kernel, which gets a major update every six months to a year. Or Intel can pre-release the drivers, but then they are rolling craps that the chips will work out exactly as anticipated when the wafer line rolls. Note: ARM does this driver pre-release thing, and has hit it on the nail head every time so far for those vendors who have bought their hard macro chip designs. They do it by a qualification run of that exact design at TSCM on the actual production process it will run on, which is all part of their hard macro design guarantee. You buy into an ARM hard macro quad core A15 design with a Mali 678 graphics system, it just works upstream to the Android/Linux software and downstream to the actual TSCM production wafer line. Problem is your two worst competitors just bought the exact same system and put their processing time order into TSCM before you did -- you lose. Fastest one to market wins, every time ..... |
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Title: Re: Wintel, the beginning of the end Post by Oldfeller on 12/21/12 at 16:42:24 Intel’s Clover Trail tested: It beats most ARM-based chips… most of the time http://liliputing.com/2012/12/intels-clover-trail-tested-it-beats-most-arm-based-chips-most-of-the-time.html Part of the fun of what is going on is the give and take between ARM and Intel -- Intel is intending to compete, not conform to any ARM standard. In doing this, Intel is saddling itself with Microsoft instead of going with Android (as of right now, anyway). By doing so they give up advantage to ARM/Android/Linux as this code is much lighter and quicker to execute. Bay Trail is next year's contender against the quad core A-15 ARM chipsets. This year it is Clover trail and it isn't doing badly against dual and quad core A-9s that it is being compared against. Running MS legacy apps under Windows8 full edition, Clover trail is a winner (duh). Clover trail won't run Win8 RT apps, so the comparison is skewed a bit since Win8 RT is required on the ARM chipsets and the Microsoft RT code is brand new and sorta kludgy right now. But in raw processor power (video rendering, databases) Clover trail is the winner. The fact nobody is going to do this sort of work on a tablet begs the question, a win is a win after all. ARM racks up other wins in the tablet type stuff: "On the other hand, while tablets like the Acer Iconia Tab W510 offer decent graphics performance with support for HD video playback and hardware-accelerated 3D graphics, modern ARM-based chips generally run circles around Intel’s system-on-a-chip when it comes to graphics performance. The iPad 2 offers faster graphics, not to mention the 3rd and 4th generation iPads. NVIDIA’s Tegra 3 chip (you know, the one that’s in the $199 Google Nexus 7 tablet) is noticeably faster." If you read the article, note the prices on Clover trail tablets are quite high ($550-$600) vs the $199 Nexus 7 that kicks its butt and listen carefully to the note that anything the Clover trail beat the ARM tablets on was full notebook type work and you can buy a MUCH faster notebook for $350 for the video rendering and big database type things that will do that job much faster than any tablet. And for tablet work, ARM still rules. Late next fall when Intel's Bay trail comes out, and ARM's quad core A-57 comes out, then there will be another match up to see who rules. In between these times, the Intel Clover trail will be matched up against the newly released quad core A-15 and quad core A-7 chipsets and losing more ground to them (until Intel gets Bay trail out into some products anyway). Then there will be give and take leadership wise and Intel will get better and so will ARM. Intel always does better with a competitor to keep them honest. So now it is Intel vs all the ARMS and AMD -- so, Intel should get better even faster. ;D |
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