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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Silent muffler /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1354475719 Message started by BOBD on 12/02/12 at 11:15:19 |
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Title: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/02/12 at 11:15:19 I doubt that this has ever been asked. I'd like to silence my stock muffler even more than it is. How would I do that? I thought about stuffing steel wool in it, but it would only blow out. Unless there is way to keep it in. Is it a good or bad idea? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by 360k+ on 12/02/12 at 11:36:41 You could stuff it in ahead of the baffle (the muffler input end), but exhaust is corrosive and would rust the steel wool out pretty quickly. It would be a neat experiment to see if a nearly silent muffler could be designed tho. A single cylinder is probably hardest because its "pulsed" nature, over a say, a 12 or 16 cylinder motor where the exhaust pulses are naturally smoothed out a bit. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by verslagen1 on 12/02/12 at 11:57:11 I link this mod not as a solution but so you'll have some insight to the internals of the stock pipe. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1268121565 |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/02/12 at 12:10:38 You might try a waffle baffle in the pipe, in front of the muffler?... PS... (waffle baffle... I just made that up)... :-?... http://www.whitedogbikes.com/ccp51/media/images/product_category/Remove_Exhaust_Baffle_sm.jpg |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/02/12 at 12:15:45 Good one, my man. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by raydawg on 12/02/12 at 12:59:32 How would you know its working? :-? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/02/12 at 14:57:19 The stock muffler is about as quiet as you can get a 650cc single. To make one that would be quieter, you would have to make a larger container, or put more restrictions in the stock muffler. I find either of those options unacceptable. Both would reduce power, and this bike, when stock, is not all that powerful. Why do you want to do this? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/02/12 at 15:20:45 Why not. Just to see if it could be done. Just going the opposite of loud I think would be interesting. If they had an electric bike that wasn't ugly, looked like a normal bike, was cheap enough, went 250 miles on a charge and did 100MPH I'd get one. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/02/12 at 15:31:02 Stealth mode.... maybe it will catch on... It's such a noisy world... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Oldfeller on 12/02/12 at 15:42:14 The only "silent" vehicle I have ever seen or owned was a first generation Acura Legend -- it literally made no noise or vibration at idle at all when it was new. Seriously, none. To do this required a 4 part all stainless steel cat and muffler system that was articled about at the time in the car rags as "technically innovative". It cancelled pulses from one bank against the other intentionally in a dual header symphony. The engine firing order and header lengths were tweeked to provide matching complementary pulses at the first mix pre-muffler -- then the remainder blended flow was run through a cat and a post cat muffler, then a long pipe and the final end of car muffler where things were crossed repeatedly again and again. No Acura was ever built as good as that one was ever again, as that car was created as Hiro Honda's lasting legacy to himself and to the company he had built. He also built the Acura NSX at the same time to show as his sports car legacy (used the exact same engine except had fancy variable valve timing heads). And the NSX was practically silent around town as well, but screamed and howled when you opened it up like any sports car should. Both cars were really something at the time, kinda ho hum nowdays, but back then they were the cat's meow. Both had six cylinder pulses to tune with, and you only have the one. All you can do is try to mute the single pulse flow that you have. You have limited run length to do that in, so are doomed somewhat by your restricted length and the great strength of your Savage pulses. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/02/12 at 15:50:44 57717E716F6D573034040 wrote:
I asked you first. I was asking a question, not making a statement. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Cavi Mike on 12/03/12 at 00:51:15 Buy a different bike. This one clearly isn't for you. Adding to Oldfeller's post - the NSX was a Ferarri beater when it debuted in 1990. The entire world had to play catch-up when that thing hit the market. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/03/12 at 06:36:29 4B697E614561636D080 wrote:
If looking for a silent bike, get a Gold Wing or an electric. This bike makes enough mechanical noise not counting the exhaust that you'd be heard a block away. On a RYCA bike, the honk coming through the carb is significant as well. If you do pursue making the thing quieter, you'll have to use a larger muffler (physically) and additional sound dampening on the intake side (larger air box). It'll be an interesting project. Keep us posted. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by 360k+ on 12/03/12 at 06:46:11 4157405D45505D46320 wrote:
Does that come with syrup? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Dave on 12/03/12 at 06:56:01 On some 4 stroke singles I have seen this new pipe added onto the header pipe......I have no idea why. Does it somehow add power - or cut down on noise? I suppose it helps to dampen the pulses and smooth the flow.......not sure if adding one to a Savage could help to cut down on the "THUMP, THUMP, THUMP". My guess is that if you make the exhaust too quiet.....you will really start to notice the intake noise, ticking valve train, whining gearbox and belt, etc. http://i48.tinypic.com/b4fi3q.jpg |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by verslagen1 on 12/03/12 at 07:13:10 When I see a pipe on a pipe... normally it's a dual sport trying to meet spark arrestor requirements for off roading. the waffle baffle has my vote as it's easily reversable. next would be to stick an eye ball down the inlet of the muffler and if it looked like the sketches in the hartman mod, then I would consider stuffing that front compartment with ss scrubies. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 07:35:09 6658534E434E43210 wrote:
I asked you first. I was asking a question, not making a statement.[/quote] OK. I've lived with a noisy workplace until I retired and noisy bikes. So, now I've got 2 hearing aids. I'd like peace and quiet now, Thank you. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 07:40:17 7052455A7E5A5856330 wrote:
Can't afford anything more than I've got. Guess I'll just quit riding. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 07:59:23 7648435E535E53310 wrote:
If looking for a silent bike, get a Gold Wing or an electric. This bike makes enough mechanical noise not counting the exhaust that you'd be heard a block away. On a RYCA bike, the honk coming through the carb is significant as well. If you do pursue making the thing quieter, you'll have to use a larger muffler (physically) and additional sound dampening on the intake side (larger air box). It'll be an interesting project. Keep us posted.[/quote] Too darn expensive. I'd love to have a Honda Goldwing Trike, but it ain't gonna happen. How about these.http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/SUZUKIS40/Bigmufflers.jpg |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by TROX on 12/03/12 at 08:28:14 www.zeromotorcycles.com 8-) |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by gdrseeker on 12/03/12 at 08:29:49 Here is a good electric bike http://www.youtube.com/user/brammo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtSUoU042JI&feature=fvst http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr98sLX_m8o |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/03/12 at 08:30:35 Yea, sure,.. a giant megaphone will help... ;D... Maybe you don't need a Goldwing,... ...maybe you need a Goldwing muffler... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 08:51:02 5E606B767B767B190 wrote:
If looking for a silent bike, get a Gold Wing or an electric. This bike makes enough mechanical noise not counting the exhaust that you'd be heard a block away. On a RYCA bike, the honk coming through the carb is significant as well. If you do pursue making the thing quieter, you'll have to use a larger muffler (physically) and additional sound dampening on the intake side (larger air box). It'll be an interesting project. Keep us posted.[/quote] Anything I do will have to be on the cheap side. I'm retired and on a fixed income. How about stuffing stainless steel wool in it. Would that rust too? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/03/12 at 08:56:07 Any kind of packing,.. has to go around the outer perimeter of a waffle baffle... you can't just stuff it in the hole... if the engine starts, it'll just blow out,... ...if it don't start,.. ...you will have successfully created a truly silent Savage... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 08:56:18 7774626375757B7562100 wrote:
I've looked at those. Too expensive for me. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 08:57:32 47415C4B130 wrote:
Don't like the look of them. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by misterbbq on 12/03/12 at 09:47:13 would welding a piece in that pushes the end of the exhaust well past the riding position help at all? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Greg on 12/03/12 at 09:51:09 Quote:
My dad used to stuff steel wool in the exhaust of my motocross bikes as they were too loud for him. He used a broom handle to get it in there pretty deep. I don't know if something like that would work for the Savage or not. It will work if you remove the muffler and stuff it in the front. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 10:49:25 6D686F6463690A0 wrote:
It would have to be stainless steel wool that does not rust. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/03/12 at 10:58:32 :-?... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdNtpLU_uTM[/media] |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Dave on 12/03/12 at 11:35:25 Stuffing steel wool in the end of a hollow 2 cycle engine expansion chamber might provide a bit of sound deadening for a dirt bike - but it is not gonna work in the Savage Muffler. Whenever steel wool or glass fiber is used for sound deadening the exhaust does not pass through it - it passes by and the sound waves are scattered into the fibers while the fumes pass on through a bit muffled. Really effective sound dampening is done by evening out the pressure waves with baffles and resonance chambers....the more the merrier.....and it is a balancing act beween size/weight/function. An attempt to shove anything up the tailpipe is going to provide the "BANANA UP THE TAILPIPE" trick that Eddy Murphy is famous for. If I was going to try and get things less loud....I would either try the method that Serobot proposed by installing an additional baffle core upstream of the muffler - or make an additional baffle that can be attached to the back of the stock muffler. The RYCA boys have been using stainless strainers from kitches sinks, and I bet you could get a couple of different sizes and stack them together. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/03/12 at 13:41:06 I'm resigning from this conversation. Think I'll just leave it like it is. It's quiet enough as is. Anyone else is welcome to it. Good luck to ya. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/03/12 at 14:51:44 183E313E2022187F7B4B0 wrote:
It would have to be stainless steel wool that does not rust. [/quote] In the extreme heat, the pounding from the exhaust pulses, and the corrosive environment of exhaust gases, stainless steel "rusts" too. It just rusts more slowly than plain carbon steel. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/03/12 at 14:53:37 46606F607E7C462125150 wrote:
Shucks. I was hoping you were going to do some experimenting for the Savage community. We sure learn a lot from folks who dare to build things and occasionally develop something interesting. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by bohe1 on 12/03/12 at 15:25:00 Hi, I think is 10 times harder to go against the flow!! everybody knows how to get a deeper louder tone just by changing the original muffler with a HD Dyna!! But making a "Silent muffler"!?!?! :-/ |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Dave on 12/03/12 at 15:26:41 BOBD: IF you do look at this thread once more......is your muffler stock? I got to wondering if maybe it had been modified by drilling the end of the muffler....and maybe it is not as quiet as it used to be? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/03/12 at 15:37:12 102B2631202C37312A222F30430 wrote:
Good point. The stock muffler of the last few years is pretty quiet. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/04/12 at 03:48:32 7E45485F4E42595F444C415E2D0 wrote:
It is the stock muffler and no mods have been done. I think maybe more of the waffle baffles it has inside it might work, but I have no way of doing that. Or some sink strainers, but I see no way to fit them in either. They all would have to fit passed the pipe opening and open up to bigger once inside the muffler. Don't see that happening either. How about adding one of these before the waffle baffle? http://www.jpcycles.com/product/4410020 |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/04/12 at 08:18:46 1305120F17020F14600 wrote:
Lots of room for more baffles. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/04/12 at 08:31:48 The stock muffler,.. doesn't use a a waffle baffle type muff... It is chambered... exhaust enters the pipe, but is blocked in the middle and forced through holes into a surrounding chamber, then down, and back through more holes to the exit pipe... This is a lot quieter than just a waffle with some packing around it... In a waffle baffle,.. the air passage is just narrowed a bit and disturbed by protruding steel fingers as it passes some sound absorbing material... it can have packing, or not,.. but neither way will it be as quiet as a chambered muffler... So,.. what I was suggesting was to put the waffle, in front of the muffler, in the exhaust pipe,... kinda' a double muffler system... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/04/12 at 09:27:26 http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/SUZUKIS40/Insideofstockmuffler.jpg This is what I see inside the muffler. Looks like a waffle design, but apparently not what you are talking about. Would something like this work: http://www.jpcycles.com/product/4410020 There is room for this. If 1 1/2" outside diameter will fit in muffler. Which means to me 1 5/8". It may not fit past the muffler connector. Actually up to 6" might fit. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/04/12 at 09:33:08 It would be interesting to try... Now, you got me thinking about giving it a shot... ;D... Shoot!,.. $5 and some foolin' around... you never know... I might try one in front of my Dyna... PS,.. if you look down the back end of the muffler,.. you'll see a small tube with holes around the circumference... those holes are letting the exhaust from the outer chamber into the small exit tube... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/04/12 at 09:38:09 6375627F67727F64100 wrote:
Would it be too much back pressure since it is already a stock muffler? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Serowbot on 12/04/12 at 09:40:54 If you want quiet,.. there's a price... You might give up. a half a pony... you might also gain a little low end torque?... If I find a little dude, local,.. I think I'll give it a shot... You can always take it back out... :)... |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/04/12 at 10:19:11 293F28352D38352E5A0 wrote:
I went ahead and ordered one, but it cost more to ship than the price itself. I don't know where to get any around here anyway. You can pretty much ride all year down there. I was in the Air Force working on the old Titan II missiles back in the sixties. I also lived in Phoenix for a year. It's still hot whether it's dry heat or not, you still sweat. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/06/12 at 13:41:30 2630273A22373A21550 wrote:
I got my little dude and put it in (uh oh). I think it made it quieter, but not silent. I also think it made the engine noise quieter. More back pressure maybe? Then again could be my imagination. My hearing is bad after all these years of working around noisy machines and riding loud motorcycles. Maybe you've got some good ears to hear it. Can't take it for a ride until it gets warmer. Maybe Ohio will have one of those weird warm days. 50 degrees would be good enough for me. I set the air screw mix at 3/4 out. Sounds like it is running great at that setting. Hoping to get 55 to 60 MPG. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Dave on 12/06/12 at 18:32:37 As stated previously - a single cylinder engine is not the easiest to make smooth or silent. Back in the old days they even made 16 cylinder car engines trying to get smooooooth. The more cylinders there are the smaller the bang and the more even the engine pulses become, and they can be played against each other to help reduce the sound. We got this big power pulse that can only be evened out by placing lots of baffles and chambers to smooth out the pulses. Using a muffler from another bike really won't help, as they were probably designed for a bike that did not have this big of a piston as a single cylinder. Multi-cylinder mufflers were probably designed to use the pulses that are more frequent and smaller in force than the Savage produces. The next attempt I would make if I were in your shoes - would be to install an attacment on the back of the muffler that had glass sound absorbing material - it is better at cancelling the high pitched sounds. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Boofer on 12/06/12 at 21:44:58 BOBD, The Night Train/ Softail muffler seems --maybe not quieter, but a different tone. For about $30 you can mount one in 30 minutes. It is threaded for a 1/4-20 bolt and the clamp up front keeps it on. No rejetting. Just a turn or so on the carb. HARFXS1584 #65842-07 80db all stamped on the side. It mounts on the rear hole on the stock bracket. Use the stock clamp and wrap with Dr Pepper can strips for gasket. ihth ;) |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/07/12 at 04:31:51 162D2037262A31372C242936450 wrote:
Exactly correct. I would delete the word "probably." This is the reason it is counter-productive to use a stock muffler designed to have more than one cylinder dumping into it. One thing you left out in the second paragraph is that the cases have to be made of heavy gauge metal, and with compound curves to minimize the sound made as the case expands and contracts with each pulse. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/07/12 at 05:59:17 I think I'll just live with the way it sounds right now. The only way to get a quiet motorcycle would be to buy an electric, if they ever invent one that I can afford, goes 200 miles on a charge and does at least 90MPH. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/07/12 at 06:33:27 Have you ridden a late model Gold Wing lately? |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 12/07/12 at 08:46:28 I'm afraid I have not and doubt I will, since they are too expensive for me. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by Gyrobob on 12/07/12 at 09:17:21 7D5B545B45477D1A1E2E0 wrote:
They are absurdly expensive,... although they do hold up well,.. you could find a 2002 model with 100,000 miles of life left in it for roughly the cost of a new Savage. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 02/17/13 at 12:07:13 Still not silent, but maybe quieter. I have got the little baffle to stay in before the original baffle with 2 screws, but had to grind the heads down to fit muffler back on. I also put a sink strainer on the end of the muffler with 4 screws to hold it in as seen in picture. The video sound may not be enough to actually tell how loud it is.http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r552/SUZUKIS40/SuzukiS40strainer_zps8f33f307.jpg http://s1171.beta.photobucket.com/user/SUZUKIS40/media/SuzukiS40strainer_zps3d9119bb.mp4.html |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by verslagen1 on 02/17/13 at 12:11:52 video not found |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 02/17/13 at 12:38:30 Are you using Internet Explorer? I know that in Firefox it doesn't work for some reason, but Internet Explorer does. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by verslagen1 on 02/17/13 at 13:13:11 04222D223C3E046367570 wrote:
Yes, IE works. :-? don't know how loud that was, need a comparison. maybe if you add some talking. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 02/17/13 at 13:16:10 I'll see what I can do. It is inside the garage so will be louder than outside. Too cold to do outside. |
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Title: Re: Silent muffler Post by BOBD on 02/17/13 at 14:13:16 Try these. I set the idle about 1250RPM. Have not tried it on the road yet. Too cold for me. http://s1171.beta.photobucket.com/user/SUZUKIS40/media/Suzukiidle_zpsa77fd651.mp4.htmlhttp://s1171.beta.photobucket.com/user/SUZUKIS40/media/Idleandrev_zpsae77e701.mp4.html |
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