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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed up /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1354210882 Message started by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 09:41:21 |
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Title: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed up Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 09:41:21 Weather's turned colder, and I'm finding that my 2007 now stalls at idle until it's fully warmed up, even with the choke all the way out. I have to keep the idle speed up with the throttle when stopped at stop signs, traffic lights, or left-hand turns until I've ridden a mile or more. Is this normal for this bike? First time I've ridden in cold weather. Tried turning the idle screw in a bit, but all that does is make it idle too fast when warmed up. Also tried partly closing the choke (which I have to do in warmer weather while it's still cold, or it'll stall when stopped), but no joy there, either. Thanks! David |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Dave on 11/29/12 at 09:52:01 Which idle screw are you turning in a bit? The idle mixture screw (right side) should be opened a bit if you want a richer mixture - the idle speed screw is on the left side and will increase/decrease idle speed. What jets do you have in the carb after all your backfire adventures? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 10:05:10 I have a 55 pilot jet and a stock main jet. The idle mix screw is set for maximum idle when warmed up and backfiring is somewhat reduced but still not eliminated. It was set a week ago, when the air temp was about 50. Now it's 39. Don't know if the same problem occurred at air temp 50, as I only rode it after the bike had warmed up (dealer mechanic adjusted the idle mix and idle speed). The screw I was talking about in my OP is the idle speed screw. I had hoped upping the idle speed a bit would allow me to ride without having to monitor the engine speed with the throttle when stopped. What I'm really looking for, first, is, is this normal for this bike (stalling at idle until it warms up, when riding in colder weather), or do I have yet another carburation issue? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/12 at 10:12:56 Idle speed does vary a bit with weather. But your bike should be warm up after 5 minutes |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 10:22:45 In general I guess it is warmed up after 5 minutes. It doesn't take me more than five minutes to go a mile or two. What I'm trying to find out is, is it typical for this bike to stall out at idle, such as when stopped at a stop sign, when it is ridden in cold weather and not yet warmed up (that is, is within that first five minutes of riding)? Thanks. It runs fine after it's fully warmed up, except for backfiring. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Serowbot on 11/29/12 at 10:41:36 Mine likes choke when it's cold,.. but, it don't tend to die... I'd say it's not generally normal... Is your air filter clean?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by MShipley on 11/29/12 at 12:01:28 mine will die until it is fully warmed up. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 12:57:56 2F392E332B3E33285C0 wrote:
That's an interesting question. I've never seen a new S40 air filter so I don't know what 'clean enough' looks like. It's gray and I can see only a little light through it. I blew it out with compressed air but that made no visible difference. How clean is clean enough? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/12 at 13:22:33 7F797474707972757F7E691B0 wrote:
have you tried one knotch out? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 13:28:53 One notch out? On the idle mix screw, you mean? As in, say, another quarter turn out? Or do you mean something else? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Dave on 11/29/12 at 13:36:23 One notch out on the choke......mine likes that setting when it is cold. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 13:42:43 When the bike and air are both cold, it stalls wherever I put the choke. When it's warm, runs okay with the choke in. When it was warmer weather, and before recent carb mods, it ran fine on one choke notch until the bike warmed up, then no choke. Can you run at idle from a cold start when the weather is under 40F? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/12 at 13:46:05 Aha, you did something to the carb... what? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 13:51:48 I took it to a shop, where they went up a size on the pilot jet to try to eliminate backfiring on decel. Also checked the TEV and floats. Can't tell if this had an effect on stalling because I hadn't ridden it on cold days before the mod. Does your bike stall on idle at under 40F?? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Dave on 11/29/12 at 14:01:42 6E686565616863646E6F780A0 wrote:
Nope.....both the bike and I are keeping warm inside! I wonder if the combination of a 55 Pilot Jet and choke are just too much when combined....even on the first notch. A 55 Pilot jet seems to be awfully rich. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/12 at 15:26:40 333538383C353E39333225570 wrote:
My carb is for an '88, so it's jetted rich to begin with. I put it on the 1st knotch to idle up to warm. After putting helm and gloves on, and a minute of riding, it's idling too fast so I push it in. This is typical for all but the warmest months. a/f meter says 10/11 at warm idle, rich enough |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Charon on 11/29/12 at 15:35:39 Welcome to the world of non-electronically controlled engines. Cold engines idle slower because the oil is thicker, causing more drag. The fuel mix is off because cold gasoline doesn't evaporate as readily as warm gas (hence the rich mixture caused by the choke or enrichener). In air cooled engines such as found on motorcycles, the engine will never get as warm because the cold ambient air removes more heat and there is no thermostatic control. The flame temperature will be lower, because the intake air is colder. The list goes on. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 18:10:49 Isn't the stock pilot jet 52.5? And the next size up 55? Can going up just one size be enough to make things too rich to idle when cold, with the choke on? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/29/12 at 18:13:49 Quote:
What's an a/f meter? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/30/12 at 11:24:24 0B20293A2726480 wrote:
I see you have exactly the same bike I have, even down to the color. How do you have its carburetor tuned? Does it backfire frequently or stall when cold (in cold weather)? I can accept whatever the norms are for this bike, but at this point I don't quite know what they are or if mine deviates from them. -David |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Cavi Mike on 11/30/12 at 11:54:05 They're all the exact same bike - since 1986. If you've done anything to the bike, it may run a bit different. Conversely - if you haven't done anything to the bike it may run a bit different. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Badass94Cad on 11/30/12 at 13:19:59 For a point of comparison, I rode to work today, and back. There is snow on the ground. It's pretty darn cold. I idle the bike with the choke halfway while I put on helmet and gloves, push in the choke, and I'm out. No stalling whatsoever, except some minor bogging for the first block. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/30/12 at 15:05:43 6142474250501A17604247230 wrote:
Thanks, that's what I'm looking for. Is your bike stock? Does it backfire? Have you done any carburetor tuning/mods? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by raydawg on 11/30/12 at 17:04:19 Yeah I ride daily too, so far the coldest was 26 this fall/winter. I choke on first click, but I don't push it back n till I'm rolling.... The reason I do that is for a more even start, until I can test the road surface. The cold bucking only adds another element I don't want or need until I'm settled about the road condition in my mind. I ride in snow, but not ice....there is a difference. Snow is sorta fun, especially in the dark (we have very few street lights) the flakes seem like I'm flying through stars from star wars as my headlight shines on them :D |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/30/12 at 17:15:11 What's the traction like on snow-covered roads? I've only very occasionally ridden in winter, and then many years ago, mostly on the highway. This is my first year back riding after 33 years not riding, but I'm interested in trying it this winter. Any safety tips? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by SALB on 11/30/12 at 19:18:38 283B233E3B2D3D5A0 wrote:
Snow is really fun when it's just warm enough that it's not sticking to the ground. ;) I dig warp 9! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by SALB on 11/30/12 at 19:35:45 I ride through the winter, and I've had similar problems. Mine is also an '07, and last winter and this winter I've had to set the Idle speed (not mixture) up toward the high side to keep it idling cold. Under 50 degrees, one click out on the choke. Under 35 two clicks out to start, and then after a minute, back in one click. FYI...last winter my bike was bone stock, this winter I have a drilled muffler and air fuel screw set a little farther out to compensate. I've also noticed that atmospheric pressure and humidity effect the way it runs more in the winter. Hope this helps. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by raydawg on 11/30/12 at 20:08:33 4E484545414843444E4F582A0 wrote:
Well I wouldn't recommend it for long rides, or busy roadways. You need to really be careful, don't over-steer, brake hard, or accelerate quickly.....You must stay focused at all times. I won't ride if we have snow on the ground, I'll take my 4X, but I have been already at work when freak, or wrong forecasting snow caught me there. I only have a 13 mile ride, no freeways, interstates, etc, to navigate, just people and a ferry, so its not too bad, heavy rain with gusting high winds is more a challenge I feel.... Enjoy your time back, just ease into at your own pace, confidence is an asset, cockiness and over-confidence a liability.... that can prove costly. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/30/12 at 20:13:09 5C5F5C485E56583D0 wrote:
How did you drill the muffler and what effect, besides making it louder, did it have? |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by SALB on 11/30/12 at 20:54:58 7E787575717873747E7F681A0 wrote:
How did you drill the muffler and what effect, besides making it louder, did it have?[/quote] With the problems you've been having, wait until spring. By then you can research the subject here on the sight and it will be warm enough to properly tune. I personally couldn't tell any difference in power, but yes the tone definitely changed. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by David Bookbinder on 11/30/12 at 22:02:34 I don't expect to do the drilling until spring, if that's what I decide to do, but I am curious about the process. Also wondering if your bike has the backfiring problem and if drilling improved it at all. |
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Title: Re: Stalling at idle in cold weather until warmed Post by Oldfeller on 12/01/12 at 05:18:04 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1189180766/0#0 "Is your bike stock? Does it backfire? Have you done any carburetor tuning/mods?" Folks, this has turned into a chit chat thread that is tying up our helper persons. Please stop. The Cafe is a great place to chat, the same folks are over there doing lots of chat stuff right now. Oldfeller |
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