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Message started by splash07 on 11/26/12 at 13:18:01

Title: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 11/26/12 at 13:18:01

Bonnie is running out of fuel after about 2-3 minutes of riding, she will idle all day long but if you ride with even half throttle she only lasts about 2 minutes. If I sit for about a minute she will start right up again and I can go another mile or so, but sure enough she will sputter and die only a little ways down the road. Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Serowbot on 11/26/12 at 13:40:55

Um,.. petcock?... :-?...
Test your Petcock,.. don't just turn it to Prime.. (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1)

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by youzguyz on 11/26/12 at 13:46:07

You've been around here a long time. I feel silly asking if you have a Raptor petcock, but it sounds like you do (or you run on Prime).
In any case, it sounds like a gas feed problem. 2-3 minutes is a bit longer than it takes to empty the float bowl.
You let it sit, and the bowl fills up.
Check for good fuel flow out of the bowl drain. If not so hot, then start looking for obstructions, clogs, hose kinks.
There is a screen on the petcock, another on the carb before the gas gets to the bowl.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 11/26/12 at 14:08:50

Yeah running a raptor, got an in line filter too which is full of fuel. So maybe the screen on the carb side or in the bowl?

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by youzguyz on 11/26/12 at 14:14:09

I would start with pulling the line off the carb and seeing if you get good fuel flow to that point.
If so, then the problem has to be in the carb. That little screen or your float level.
If not, then the problem is your in-line filter, the line itself, or the petcock screen. Just because the filter is full of fuel doesn't mean it isn't partially clogged. You need to watch it in action as the fuel flows through.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by verslagen1 on 11/26/12 at 15:12:07

Eliminate the filters and see what happens.

Just recently several went thru all the filters and looked at fuel delivery.

So, the test is easy enough, replace the inline filter with a straight hose.

If you still got the problem, yank the filter off the raptorcock inlet.

and if that don't work, drop the carb (while you're there, might as well clean it) and pull the little screen above the float valve. might find a dead spider in there... don't laugh, it's happened. I found a hairball once.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Charon on 11/26/12 at 16:16:24

If you test and find the filter is blocking flow, you need to find out where the dirt clogging the filter is coming from. True, the filter (may have) kept the crud out of the carburetor, but your fuel flow is still getting blocked. A dirty filter is a flag for dirty or contaminated fuel or a rusty tank.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by v-pilot on 11/26/12 at 17:05:30

I don't know how old your bike is but the Ethanol in the gas as been known to breakdown the rubber fuel lines over time...small bits maybe in the in line filter and in the carb screen. It's happened to one of my older bikes

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/26/12 at 19:05:21

As stated above, its a flow rate problem,
Pull the line off the carb & turn the gas on, see how it flows,if its slow. Remove potential restrictions & see if it improves.

If its not slow feeding the carb, then its a carb issue. But, I sure doubt that.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 11/27/12 at 06:27:49

pulled the filter off and ran straight through a hose, flow was slow even without the inline filter so my bet is the screen on the raptor is blocked up. Didnt have time to pull it last night so will hopefully get to it today after work.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by youzguyz on 11/27/12 at 06:41:02

2A2935382A31696E590 wrote:

There is a remote chance of the gas cap vent causing the problem as well. Easy to check, just take the gas cap off and see if the flow gets better.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/27/12 at 07:36:35

If you blow gas backwards thru the fuel line youll flush the screens on the petcock. If it flows nice after that, then youve got somethin icky in yer gas..

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Serowbot on 11/27/12 at 09:34:27

Ever notice how often we're telling people to blow or suck on lines?...

That's entertainment... ;D...

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Grayowl on 11/27/12 at 10:01:45

I have noticed that, but was afraid to ask – now I know.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/27/12 at 10:30:17

Hey, Look,, its a Valid approach to troubleshooting

AND its fun to tell someone

Now, IDK where YOu been for the last few years, but where Im from, theres a little cliche' thing we use on stuff like that..we call that a

Win,Win,,

& I feel like IM winnin, right now, just talkin about it!

Now,, you run blow in yer thingy & see if that dont help,PIcs would be nice,,but not necessary as I have a vivid imagination..

Hyucckk Hyuckk Geesh,,

(The Roscoe, Dukes of Hazard laugh goes well with that)

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Oldfeller on 11/27/12 at 11:04:28

Justin, you didn't really just tell him to blow his own petcock did you?

...... you did, didn't you?

Do you really think his hose is that flexible?

:D

"Hyucckk Hyuckk Geesh,," indeed. If he clears his own filter blocking external obstruction he's gonna spurt a fresh flow of gasoline into his own mouth.

Seriously now, it might be better to tilt the bike over and take the Raptor off and clean the screen with carb cleaner.

Has anyone considered some sort of sock material to go over the internal filter screen protrusion on the raptor? Something fabric, like the finger off an old fabric glove? Something just to pre-trap the gross amount of rust flakes for those of us who have rusty tanks?

There is plenty of room below the screen to tie the finger off and the finger could stick up well above the tip of the filter giving lots of surface area to pre-screen the trash. Such a rig wouldn't stop everything, nor would it stop the fine filter from plugging up, but it would take a whole lot longer for it to plug up again.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 11/27/12 at 13:28:27

the old one might be on to something. I might look into that once I have the raptor out of the tank later this evening.

As for blowing or sucking on hoses.......I just dont do it! Its a policy of mine I have had for years. ;D

I will try to post a pic as well.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/27/12 at 14:10:51

"Hyucckk Hyuckk Geesh,," indeed. If he clears his own filter blocking external obstruction he's gonna spurt a fresh flow of gasoline into his own mouth.

Not gonna happen,,the hose will be full O air, for the most part, all that need to happen is blow a few CC's of gas back thru those screens. IF he does that AND flow rate pick up, he knows the screens are nasty,, BUt, as you say, theres easier ways &, based on his T/shooting to this point, its pretty well narrowed down. A tank vent problem would take longer to show up. Hes seeing problems when the bowl gets run low a lot sooner than suction buildup in the tank could happen, even if the tank was full, BUT, If ya wanna test for it, its easy. Fire it up, ( assuming tank is near full now) time a run & not HOw ya run it,not how long it takes before it starts stumbling,

Remove most of the gas, do the test again, If it takes longer for the problem to show up, its a vent problem,
Decrease head pressure on the petcock screens & it pass more fuel? Not likely,, BUt, it will take longer for a vacuum to build in the tank with less gas in it.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Charon on 11/27/12 at 17:09:49

I am probably being the Prophet of Doom, but I suspect the tank is going to have to be removed and thoroughly cleaned to get out all the rust/dirt/contamination in it. If it is seriously rusted, it might be possible to chemically clean it and then coat it with something like KREEM. Altering or adding filters is just going to postpone the problem. If you can get hold of some high-dollar optical equipment (a colonoscope would be nice) like a borescope from an aviation mechanic, you might be able to see the problem. But having seen it, you still have to fix it.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Serowbot on 11/27/12 at 17:25:01

Charon... Prophet of Doom... that's kinda' close... ;D...

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/27/12 at 19:05:00

Once the petcock is out, cap off, you can get enough lite in & an inspection mirror & look around. A stiff wire with a white rag secured, lots of ways to see whats in there. A long piece of hard wire, shaped up on a grinder could help.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Oldfeller on 11/27/12 at 19:51:46

You know, a newbie reading us tease each other might think "bad", but it's not, it is just some gentle ribbing going on.

Once you been through an oil war or two this is all very very mild, really. Sorta like getting shot by a nerf gun instead of a AK spraying
7.62x39 full jacketed tracer all over yer butt (the willie pete burns ya some, it does).

:o yeowie !!!

If we find the Raptor has somewhat quicker screen build up & clog up then we'll start mentioning the "finger" trick to the rusty tank newbies, along with whatever tank coating seems to really stop it for good.

When you look at gas flow, remember you need a cup full every 60 seconds to feed your Savage properly. If you get 2 cups a minute you are relatively normal compared to most filters Charon has tested.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Dave on 11/28/12 at 07:22:28

Time for Splash07 to do some homework:

1) Drain Tank
2) Take out Raptor
3) Look inside tank and see what the inside looks like.
4) Look at Raptor and see if the screens are blocked.
5) Clean stuff up if necessary. Take tank off if a thorought cleaning and derusting is necessary. I vote for cleaning and sealing if rust is present, as once it starts I don't think you can stop it easily. I prefer the POR15 coating.

Until we know for sure what the inside of the tank looks like.....we really can't provide much help.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Gyrobob on 11/29/12 at 06:47:01

I use a glass turkey baster for this kind of thing,.. when compressed air won't do, and I want to shove some icky fluid through a tube or port or other sort of "orifice."
-- Nylon works okay in most situations instead of glass, but sometime you might have to deal with a chemical that attacks nylon.
-- Glass is pretty much impervious except for a few acids we would most likely never use.
-- Don't let any of the icky fluid touch the rubber bulb.

here's an example:

http://www.gracioushome.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10001_10051_72070_-1_26072_10010

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 12/04/12 at 14:33:49

Took the raptor off and it was a little crudded up so I blew it off with some compressed air. Took the carb off and apart and blew some compressed air up the float valve and out the gas inlet, it looked pretty clean in there. Where is the screen thats before the float bowl?

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by verslagen1 on 12/04/12 at 15:31:05

above the float valve.

it's stuck to the top of the seat.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 12/04/12 at 16:19:29

Installed everything without an inline filter and still ahving the same problem.

So I will need to remove the float valve huh?

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Serowbot on 12/04/12 at 16:24:41

Splash,. I'm not going to go back and read this whole thread,..
.. but, your problem seems to be fuel flow...
Start at the top, and work your way down...
Gas cap vent, petcock screen, fuel line, float needle screen, float bowl...
floats...etc...

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by Charon on 12/04/12 at 18:52:20

6A6975786A71292E190 wrote:

Took the raptor off and it was a little crudded up so I blew it off with some compressed air.

If the petcock screen was "a little crudded up" you have found your problem. You have crud in the gas tank. The ONLY CURE for your problem is cleaning out that crud.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/04/12 at 23:20:48

The screens on a petcock are very thin & fragile. If the tube they make is flexed any, one side is torn.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 12/05/12 at 05:34:27

Yeah I dont know if it was crudded up enough to cause restricted gas flow. It wasn't really rusty crud either. More like contaminants and a few paint flecks left over from painting. Also I cleaned it well and it's still dying.

I am starting to think that the float valve screen is the culprit because I have already been having a problem with it sticking and flooding the crankcase with gas.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by splash07 on 12/22/12 at 20:04:02

So I finally got around to pulling the carb and removing the float bowl to check the float valve filter screen and this is what I found.

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac30/splash07s/FE9E1B3E-121C-4504-8E22-FBEF9475AF61-3377-000002F24B2635E1.jpg

http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac30/splash07s/3C692F93-4E2D-4A59-83D9-B8725D3B7C99-3377-000002F2BBA36540.jpg

Needless to say it ran like a champ on my 30 min test ride.

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by houstonbofh on 12/23/12 at 19:45:24

It's the little things that make a difference. Especially when they are all bunched up in a fuel line!

Title: Re: Dies after only a few minutes of riding
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/12 at 08:51:08

Amazing what a clump O crud blocking the fuel off will do.
Patience & persistence are good traits to have. Good goin, dude!