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Message started by paulmarshall on 11/19/12 at 19:43:25

Title: ZDDP Boosters
Post by paulmarshall on 11/19/12 at 19:43:25

Hi,I am running a 10w-40 API SG/JASO MA based Semi Synthetic oil and noticed sometimes not always in top the clutch slips when I open up the throttle. The clutch doesnt slip in the lower gears when I gas it. I was reading one of the posts where Oldfeller is talking about ZDDP levels, and not to use oils that are JASO MA2 and JASO MB based oils. Do I need to use a additive? And if so how much do I need?

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by Charon on 11/19/12 at 20:17:55

Hate to tell you this, but if your clutch is slipping there is no additive that will help. The ZDDP additive is a high-pressure additive, which helps to protect the cam/rocker arm interface.

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by paulmarshall on 11/19/12 at 20:38:47

OK, Is it normal for the clutch to slip only in top when its in need of replacing?

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/19/12 at 20:41:36

Its normal for a clutch to slip when there has been an oil used that has friction modifiers, or cable not adjustsed correctly. Does your clutch lever have free play?

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by paulmarshall on 11/19/12 at 20:43:31

Yes the cable has plenty of play. I was reading one of Oldfellers posts and he mentioned that the clutch can be affected by engine oil.

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/19/12 at 20:46:10

Yes, it sure can,, a cheap, effective oil is Rotella 15w40.

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by paulmarshall on 11/19/12 at 20:50:19

OK great thats very helpful thanks. I will get some. I thought it strange that it only slipped in top and only every now and then.

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by paulmarshall on 11/19/12 at 21:11:26

I might lean towards a additive as I brought 4 Litres of oil at $75 and only used half. I see Oldfeller has posted some additive options.

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by paulmarshall on 11/19/12 at 23:25:31

I have just purchased 2 bottles of Eastwood ZDDP engine oil additive. Has anyone used this? and if so how much did you add?

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by Oldfeller on 11/20/12 at 06:00:49

You know Paul, I have a hard time understanding what you are NOT asking.

You PM me with a question, I answer it.

You post in the main oil thread, I answer it.

I'll answer you again -- please try to read the thread reference given below. It has mix ratios for Eastwood ZDDP Booster.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1345080430/0#0

If you need something else, you really need to try to articulate what it is that you really want.

I'm not into guessing, especially not knowing what oil you are really using nor what PPM of ZDDP it already contains.

Listen to Justin and Charon, oil is important, but a slipping clutch can also come from maladjustment and it can result from previous abuse with an energy star compound in a previous crankcase full of oil.

ZDDP by itself isn't going to stop your clutch from slipping ....

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/20/12 at 06:31:55

Which is why Id dump the oil, toss some good, inexpensive oil in. Dont need to add anything to Rotella,

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by Oldfeller on 11/20/12 at 15:55:47

Justin, he's keeping multiple theads going (a big no-no around here, BTW) -- he's from New Zealand and he can't find Rotella oil where he lives.

He's buying stuff that he has no clue about how much ZDDP is in it already.

So, we can't really help him very much.

Except to ask how he adjusted his clutch (tell us exactly how you did it, all the steps).

I would suspect his clutch is a) contaminated and b) not adjusted correctly but that would be me ASSuMeing stuff, now wouldn't it?

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/20/12 at 16:36:31

Well,, it sure Looks good,, anyway,,
He told me it had slack in the cable,, so, even if its not perfect, as long as the lever is sloppy even when its warm, its not that..

question is, is there always some slack?

Did the problem exist before the oil thats in it now get put in it?

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by paulmarshall on 11/20/12 at 17:57:35

The clutch did not slip before, it only does it in 4th and not all the time. in 1st 2nd and 3rd I can give it full throttle and the clutch is fine. So why is the clutch slipping only in top gear, and only when the oil has heated, and not all the time just once in a while.
I reckon its the oil after reading Oldfellers post.
And I apologise for multiple threads, It was not my intention to piss anyone off. I know now how these things work.
As for not knowing about what oil to put in, I was trusting people in the appropriate feild to give me the right product. After telling them what you told me they are happy to refund me. They use it in pre 1989 motorcycles without any problems, but not in a Savage.
Being a member of this site has helped me to learn more about my bike. Now I know a little more about oil. Thanks Oldfeller.

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by Digger on 12/04/12 at 20:05:43

74657168696576776C656868040 wrote:

The clutch did not slip before, it only does it in 4th and not all the time. in 1st 2nd and 3rd I can give it full throttle and the clutch is fine. So why is the clutch slipping only in top gear.....

If a clutch is going to slip, it will generally slip in high gear before things get bad enough for said slippage to show up in the lower gears.

This is because high gear/high throttle opening angles create the largest shear forces that the plates in the clutch pack will be exposed to. The engine is creating lots of torque, but the clutch's output shaft is very resistant to an increase in its rotational velocity in high gear.

Said resistance is decreased in the lower gears.

Clear as mud? :)

Title: Re: ZDDP Boosters
Post by houstonbofh on 12/04/12 at 21:17:49

OK. I am not aware of the history of the oil wars here. (And every place has history...) But I do know a bit. JASO-ma and JASO-ma2 are safe for wet clutch. That is the entire intention. JASO-mb is not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#JASO

North American Shell Rotella-T is well known to work well with wet clutches. Outside of North America, stick with labels.

If you run oil with friction modifiers, it will permeate both the clutch material and the metal disks. That is kinda the point of friction modifiers. The fix is to replace the clutch disks, and scuff up the metal disks. Rubbing compound on a sheet of glass is a good method. Fine wet sandpaper on glass is another.