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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1353009217 Message started by Digger on 11/15/12 at 11:53:37 |
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Title: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 11:53:37 Hello all, I'm in desperate need of good advice here and I'm hopin' that one or more of you can help me out. I'm making a display for use on a motorcycle that involves some LEDs. The build info on this project bike is here (http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69754). You need to register to get into this site, but no worries, Glenn (the Admin) will not spam you..... The LEDs in question are mounted on a section of PVC pipe that has been filed flat so that the LED mounting collars will sit flush with the exterior surface of said pipe. Here is a closeup of one: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/KLR650/ChargingMonitor-LEDMountE.jpg I need ideas on how to make this LED mount waterproof. My original idea was to smear some RTV inside the section of pipe, over the bottom part of the LED, but that will not work because there is not enough room for me to get inside the pipe and smear said RTV around. I tried smearing some of the same RTV around the outside of the mount, hoping to waterproof it in this way, but the RTV did not adhere well to the subject surfaces. Please keep in mind that the mounting collar must be sealed to the PVC pipe and that the LED lens needs to be sealed to the inside diameter of the mounting collar. These are my requirements: 1. The sealing method must be waterproof, weatherproof, UV resistant, and very durable (lasting 10 years or more under savage conditions). 2. The sealing method must not damage the LED lens in any way. 3. The sealing method must be strong enough to keep the LED and its mount from moving around (note that the hole I drilled in the pipe was the smallest I could get away with - the fit is fairly snug already). 4. The sealing method must not obscure the LED from being viewed. I'm thinkin' that some type of glue will work, but which one? I had a notion to try super glue, but I don't think that that stuff holds up well to moisture over the long term - I could be wrong, though. FWIW, I found these: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/A-LED8-1RBAS-MR7-1-R/AE10577-ND/2295434?cur=USD However, they are much too spendy for me! FYI, here is the package that the LED and its mounting collar came in: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/KLR650/ChargingMonitor-LEDPackageE.jpg I'm lookin' forward to your expertise, wisdom, and experiences! TIA! |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by verslagen1 on 11/15/12 at 12:09:29 I think my 1st choice would be to ditch the snap in collar and start afresh. drill the hole in the pvc to be a tight fit with the led, press it in with a dap of duco. but there must some purpose built adhesive for led's. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Dave on 11/15/12 at 12:11:39 Can you secure the LED onto the pipe temporarily with tape or nylon ties.....the fill the entire tube up with the expansive sealing foam? That stuff is very sticky and will secure and waterproof anything. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Serowbot on 11/15/12 at 12:11:40 Not saying it's the best thing,.. but, I'd probably do rubber cement... That's what I put my tank pads on with... The good thing is, you can rub off the excess,.. and when you want to disassemble it will come off... So far, my pads have held in place,.. been a couple of years now... There's PVC cement,.. but that stuff will never come off.. it sorta' melts the pieces together... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by rfw2003 on 11/15/12 at 12:21:57 The way I would seal it to make it last the longest time and totally waterproof it, is to use a good UV resistant epoxy then snap the LED and mount into place. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by ToesNose on 11/15/12 at 13:20:44 I'm onboard with RFW, exterior UV resistant epoxy is the first thing that came to my mind too. I've used it on kayaks with good results that lasted many years. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 14:06:09 2A392E2F303D3B39326D5C0 wrote:
Ver, Good idea on ditching the collars, that gives me a good backup plan if I can't find a solution.... Hmmmm, purpose built adhesive for LED's. A quick Google search came up dry.... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 14:07:52 0D363B2C3D312A2C373F322D5E0 wrote:
Hi Dave, Good idea, but I need to be able to access circuitry that I've got inside the pipe...... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 14:10:25 7167706D75606D76020 wrote:
Hey bot, Thanks for your input. I tried ABS/PVC cement (the stuff plumbers use), and found that the LED collar and the LED body itself did not adhere to this glue. By rubber cement, are you talking about the stuff you use for patching an inner tube? |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 14:12:51 72667732303033000 wrote:
Hi rf, Yeah, I'm thinkin' that a good two-part epoxy may be the way to go on this...... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 14:15:59 142F25330E2F3325400 wrote:
Toes, Cool....any stuff that holds up in the kayak world will surely be good enough for my application. Can you recommend a particular brand of epoxy? |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by verslagen1 on 11/15/12 at 14:28:47 There's this stuff called conformal coating. meant for water proofing circuit boards. comes in spray can for sure, not sure if you can get in a brush on can. check with electronic supply houses. that stuff is water proof and non conductive. a little dab on the base of the led and shove it in a tight hole. :o |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 15:01:23 2E3D2A2B34393F3D3669580 wrote:
Ver, Thanks! Did a quick search of that stuff....there are some that you can brush on, but none of them claimed any UV resistance..... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by verslagen1 on 11/15/12 at 15:16:11 well don't coat the wires with that epoxy, I think most are conductive. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 16:06:50 What does everyone think of using something like Liquid Tape or Plasti-Dip? |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by SALB on 11/15/12 at 16:13:39 Would weather caulk like they use for windows and gutters work? :question I know its rated to take UV and usually works with plastic. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by rfw2003 on 11/15/12 at 16:34:10 72617677686563616A35040 wrote:
Since when verslagen? Most epoxies is basically just a plastic. Epoxies have been used for years for potting electronics to seal them from moisture and vibration. I have used most kinds of off the shelf 2 part epoxies for sealing electronics through the years without any issues at all. Remember we are talking about epoxy and not something like JB weld or that steel putty or any metallic containing adhesives. Just a plain ordinary clear UV resistant epoxy. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by verslagen1 on 11/15/12 at 17:08:54 3E2A3B7E7C7C7F4C0 wrote:
Since when verslagen? Most epoxies is basically just a plastic. Epoxies have been used for years for potting electronics to seal them from moisture and vibration. I have used most kinds of off the shelf 2 part epoxies for sealing electronics through the years without any issues at all. Remember we are talking about epoxy and not something like JB weld or that steel putty or any metallic containing adhesives. Just a plain ordinary clear UV resistant epoxy. R.F.[/quote] I've have a bad experience, so I'm overly cautious about such things. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Gyrobob on 11/15/12 at 17:34:28 T-88 aircraft epoxy is really tough stuff, sticks to just about any roughened surface, and never gets brittle (stays flexible). I've used it for years and have never seen it ever get brittle or deteriorate at all. I used it on the Double RYCA build, and I have used it in many places on the gyrocopters I build. -- It sets up slowly. --- The good news is you have a lot of time to phart around with the joint. --- The bad news is you'd better not be in a hurry. It takes a few hours to get firm, and a day to get hard and usable. It keeps getting stronger for a few more days. -- It won't shrink. -- It will hold up to temporary gas spills, but it is not suitable for use on gas tanks or other situations that have continual exposure to gas. http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/T-88-c27.htm |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Serowbot on 11/15/12 at 17:37:01 I set about 6ft of my wiring harness on fire,.. when one prong of an LED bulb vibrated loose and contacted a bad thing... ...(I was sitting at a traffic light and noticed a funny smell)... (then, smoke billowing from under my seat)... :-/... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 18:47:52 484B485C4A424C290 wrote:
SA, That's a possibility! Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/15/12 at 18:49:02 152B203D303D30520 wrote:
Gy, Now we're cookin' with gas! I can get this stuff locally, too. Will think on it! Looks like it has problems with UV resistance, however. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by rfw2003 on 11/15/12 at 21:08:01 Most of the epoxies I tend to fall back to are the air hardening type used for fiber glassing. The 2 main places I buy online are from fiberglast.com and http://www.uscomposites.com/ Just make sure you get the type that is specified for air hardening and not layering or it will never harden up on you. The layering epoxies are intended for use in vacuum bagging type techniques. A google search that will help you out greatly is to search for a potting epoxy. You will come up with lots of options out there. Ranging from Urethane based systems to real epoxy systems that will cure from a gel like texture to a rock hard like texture. The biggest benefit of the softer gel cured ones is that it's easier to remove the potting from your electronics should you ever have to service them, where as if you use the hard cure epoxies your better off just doing a total rebuild should something fail. I have potted with epoxies this using the standard fiber glassing epoxies on projects from low voltage/low current all the way up to high voltage/high current projects and have had no shorts in the potted areas. In a pinch I have also used the exterior grade 2 part epoxies from the local hobby shops and home supply stores such as Lowe's and Home depot and have had similar results. Just make sure you use the epoxy and not the polyester resins for doing your potting. While I'm fairly sure the polyester resins will work I've just never used them and can't vouch for how they may react with plastics. If you do the search for potting epoxies you will come across alot of them that are certified for use by NASA which should tell you something right there on how well epoxies do for insulating and protecting electronic circuits in the most extreme of circumstances. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Serowbot on 11/15/12 at 21:47:58 Don't ya' love that smell of epoxy schmelting in the morning?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Cavi Mike on 11/16/12 at 01:54:47 So many options. Easily removable? Rubber cement. Semi-permanent? Caulk or RTV. Permanent? Liquid Nails, Epoxy, hobby cement - the list is almost endless. P.S. Liquid Nails is slightly flexible when dry so if there needs to be some give that won't rip free like RTV or caulk or every other silicone based sealant, that would be a good choice. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Gyrobob on 11/16/12 at 06:21:36 1D303E3E3C2B590 wrote:
Gy, Now we're cookin' with gas! I can get this stuff locally, too. Will think on it! Looks like it has problems with UV resistance, however.[/quote] UV would be an issue if the whole joint were exposed. 95% of your joint is hidden. If you are concerned about that last 5%, put a thin layer of touchup paint, or black RTV, or even nail polish over it. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/12 at 07:05:28 If weight is no matter, or if you could slip another piece of pipe inside to fill most of the void, then drill a hole on each end & pump it full of silicone. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/16/12 at 08:15:09 2E3A2B6E6C6C6F5C0 wrote:
rf, Good stuff....thanks! |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/16/12 at 08:17:12 0022352A0E2A2826430 wrote:
Thanks, Cavi. I'm thinkin' about going with Marine Goop, thinned with some toluene (if I can find it). I've already got the Marine Goop..... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/16/12 at 08:18:02 7C4249545954593B0 wrote:
Gy, Now we're cookin' with gas! I can get this stuff locally, too. Will think on it! Looks like it has problems with UV resistance, however.[/quote] UV would be an issue if the whole joint were exposed. 95% of your joint is hidden. If you are concerned about that last 5%, put a thin layer of touchup paint, or black RTV, or even nail polish over it.[/quote] Great point....you are absolutely right! |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/16/12 at 08:19:37 6C7375726F6859695961737F34060 wrote:
Hi jus, Actually, there is circuitry inside the pipe that I'd like to retain access to... FYI, I'll be posting a link to my writeup as soon as I get this thing finished. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by verslagen1 on 11/16/12 at 08:31:47 0F222C2C2E394B0 wrote:
Home depot, paint section |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/16/12 at 14:33:39 667562637C7177757E21100 wrote:
Home depot, paint section[/quote] Neither my local Home Depot or Lowe's carried toluene. Ace had it, but only in a gallon size. Luckily, there is a small, independent paint store in town (Dale's - I like that place) that sold it by the quart...... |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by verslagen1 on 11/16/12 at 15:44:17 Haven't specifically looked for it either in a while. my brother used it, I didn't. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by ToesNose on 11/17/12 at 04:01:42 Hey Digger what are you actually going to use it for? As to the UV resistant part are you going to leave it raw PVC, if not you can use plastic paint and eliminate one of the needs off the list which will give you more options as long as the glue/adhesive is paintable. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/17/12 at 18:35:18 5A616B7D40617D6B0E0 wrote:
Toes, The section of pipe will house two LEDs that will serve as a charging monitor. You're right, I could paint the pipe, but that would involve work on my part...... ;) |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/17/12 at 18:44:35 What about mounting each LED in a short piece of pipe & then put that pipe into the side of your larger one? OHHH,,, dang,, that mite be more effort than paint,, |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/17/12 at 18:59:29 4E5157504D4A7B4B7B43515D16240 wrote:
Yeah....sounds too much like work.... :) |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/17/12 at 19:07:18 Well,, we can't have That! Ohh,,, Horrors! |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by ToesNose on 11/18/12 at 04:36:55 Ohh Digger just stoll into Lowes, Home Depot or Ace and grab a rattle can of Plastic Spray it's only minimum effort cleaning the PVC and taping off the actual LED bulbs ::) |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 11/18/12 at 20:22:12 0F343E281534283E5B0 wrote:
I may have solved the problem by using a UV resistant glue.....more to follow when I post the fix. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by hotrodbobber on 11/19/12 at 11:55:51 hi guys sorry to piss on your fire, but, i an electronic engineer among other things and 1. not much will stick to PVC tube as its oil based, and 2,,,,all you need is a small rubber grommet in the hole and push the LED into it from inside, the holes MUST be a tolerace fit, we do this on unmanned target drones for the military and they do not leak even when dropped into the sea !!! Hope this saves a lot of messing around |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/19/12 at 18:39:24 Dear Bobber,, Thats great news. However, Digger dont wanna go diggin for no dang grommets,, thats too much work. PLease get his address from someone who knows him & send him a few, Make sure to not use too much tape on the box. Dont wanna tire him out just gettin in it. You Could PM the guy & see if he feels like typing his address today,,but,, well,, you know,, probably a bit too much work,, he has to save himself,.he has a spotless garage that requires a daily micron sized dust detection & eradication procedure that is simply exhausting, Daaang that was FUN! :) |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by 360k+ on 11/19/12 at 19:24:11 Are you trying to seal the LED itself, or are you trying to seal the hole so it won't leak onto the other circuitry? Any moisture on the LED itself won't matter. Why? Because red LEDs drop about 1.7V (forward bias), so any leakage current thru the moisture will likely be insignificant, especially if the LED is current limited to 20ma (via resistor). If you are trying to prevent moisture into the circuitry inside the PVC pipe, that's another story. One thing I've used in the past is to drill the 5mm (or 3mm) hole, so the LED is a tight fit (no mount hardware), then goober up the backside of the LED with silicon. If the LED is not subject to much vibration (aside from the whole pipe unit), then that will probably work. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 12/04/12 at 19:29:02 3736263036676563530 wrote:
That grommet idea is a fine one.....I'll keep it in mind if I build another one of these things! Maybe dab a smidge of RTV on the LED before shoving it home...... Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 12/04/12 at 19:29:58 223D3B3C21261727172F3D317A480 wrote:
I'm almost too lazy to respond to this post....... ;) |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 12/04/12 at 19:32:32 4A4C5F5414181E1F142D0 wrote:
Yep, I was trying to prevent moisture from leaking in around the LED mount/collar. I thought of smearing some RTV on the backside of the LEDs, but the housing I'm using is too small to get my fingers into there for that. |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/04/12 at 23:00:58 Ive watched me some nature shows, Jane Goodall & such, watchin chimps do stuff. Youd just be Amazed at the things they figger out. Sometimes, ther'll be some kinda bug, up inside a rotten log & they wanna get it out, you know,, soze they can eat it,, gross,, But, anyway, they cant reach all the way up in the thing to get at the little critter,, so,, you know what they do? They go get them a Stick & they fish that little booger outter there & they Eat him,, & all that got me to thinking,, Now, if a danged monkey can do that, why cant I use a stick to reach up in places & apply, ohh,, epoxy, or maybe silicone or whatever, up inside a place my fingers are too short or too fat to reach up into? &, YOu know whaaaat? I couldnt think of one single reason why not! So, I got me some O them sticks they use for doin fingernails up all nice & purty. They use them to shove those nasty Ol cuticles back when theyre doin a manicure, I dunno Why they call it that, it aint no cure, its just a temporary treatment,,I guess its like callin a hairdo a "Permanent".. They hafta call it that or no one would buy it.. I mean WHO in their right mind would pay that kinda Money for a Temporary? Anyway, Digger,, get yerself a stick,, |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 12/07/12 at 21:34:50 2E3137302D2A1B2B1B23313D76440 wrote:
Sounds too much like work...... ;) |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by Digger on 03/23/14 at 18:23:48 For anyone who is still interested, here is a link to the little project I was working on (see the group of posts starting with post #532): http://www.klr650.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69754&page=27 Thanks to all who helped with this little problem! |
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Title: Re: Need To Weatherproof An LED Mount - But How? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/24/14 at 18:41:12 You guys see that? You see what he did? He didnt thank those who responded,, OHH NO,, he just thanks those who HELPED.. Now, Im not keepin score or anything,, BUT,, I Think I mita just got left out a little bit,, Hey! Thats a cool doohickey! If a guy had something with a sketchy voltage regulator he could use that,, I can see that on the back hoe,,Im gonna hafta draw that & save it,, How do those LEDS work out in daylite? Is the brightness difference enough to tell? |
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