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Message started by Starlifter on 11/02/12 at 19:32:18

Title: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Starlifter on 11/02/12 at 19:32:18

Have you seen that black & white political ad where some guy with a foreign accent warns about us becoming a socialist country??? He says he grew up in a socialist country and he's spending his own money to warn us about the dangers of socialism....Ever wonder who that guy is?

His name is Thomas Peterffy. He is the founder and CEO of 'Interactive Brokers' (Nasdaq: IBKR) and played a key role in founding the Boston Options Exchange.

His net worth US $ 5.5 billion.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/02/12 at 21:25:30

Okay, he has seen socialism, knows the pitfalls, wound up in a place where he could do better for himself & is warning us of the dangers of socialism, which he has experience with. He is clearly unintelligent & should not be listened to,he is a LOOO ZURR

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Starlifter on 11/02/12 at 22:44:43

Now just where and when did all his 'experience' living is a 'Socialist' country come from?

He immigrated here from communist Hungry at an early age and never lived in a Socialist country in his life. He is a money grubbing liar.

...don't know the differance between socialist and communist?....Google it.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Paraquat on 11/03/12 at 03:27:07

I like that commercial that looks like a Chinese classroom/college lecture where they talk about bing the US. I'll see if I can find it.

--Steve

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/05/12 at 08:31:41

I visit India and get a feel for how it can be ... however India is a democrazy with a multi party system. I also lived there till I was 21. I cant imagine someone doing that after leaving a country as a child ...

However I know of a few eastern european educated engineers, they will run rings around american equivalent degrees. In general Asians tend to be very bookish, europeans merge books to real life, and americans tend to leave books aside and just use the real world.

Something like this:
Americans educated in the US cant build the Eiffel tower, they can copy it like no body's business.
Asians from asian schools cant build it, they can design it on paper like no body's business.
Europeans can do both, which explains why they built it and its still standing.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by mpescatori on 11/05/12 at 09:51:49

According to a poll by MSN worldwide (except the US) Barack Obama would win by 81% / 19%.

Only in China would Romney win 52% / 48%.

Now it's in your hands, guys.

You can decide whether you want a ... Democrat with an extremely high reputation worldwide, or a businessman.

Your call.

PS: who made that "Jeep in China" scare ? Who is more popular in China ? Who is the wealthy businessman worth zillions ? ::)

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/05/12 at 10:20:36

Seriously the US did a lot for its credibility as a nation by electing Obama. Me talking to Indians in India they had a wide eyed surprise along the lines of "is it even allowed for a black to be president of US".

They are in a way echoing the british era where whites constitutionally exempted Indians from many posts.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/05/12 at 10:52:05

According to a poll by MSN worldwide (except the US) Barack Obama would win by 81% / 19%.

So mostly bankrupt, or on their way to being bankrupt, European nations support Obama and this is supposed to be what?... A ringing endorsement? Or is this just a case of misery loves company?

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Serowbot on 11/05/12 at 11:05:53

574A5F49595B4E5548533A0 wrote:

According to a poll by MSN worldwide (except the US) Barack Obama would win by 81% / 19%.

Only in China would Romney win 52% / 48%.

That's because Romney already went to Europe and the Middle East,.. and pissed off and insulted everybody there...
He hasn't made his way to China yet... ;D...
When he goes,... he should stay... it's his kind of country, and they like him there...

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/05/12 at 11:38:28

4B797E6F68796E517D6E771C0 wrote:

Thank you for not saying we are going to be greece again.

Someone who had lived in germany told me that germans have a rather deep regret (OK this was in the mid 90's so he might have been tyalking about the 70's and 80's) about being the well defined villians and what they did to earn that label. I think some of that is @ play in some of europe. Obama looks very african, so I think he gets most of the black people relating with him.

Some of these could be @ play for the big tilt, as is the fact that as president he's seen more outside the US. I could nto tell you who ran against reagan's second term or the older bush. I was in India and really we were sheilded from it.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by mpescatori on 11/05/12 at 12:46:17

360403121504132C00130A610 wrote:

Dear WebsterMark,

Had we been in an eye-to-eye situation, we would soon have been in an "I to black eye" situation.

More than touching a raw nerve, you have insulted a few hundred million people.

Of course, being on the other side of the ocean does have its advantages... doesn't it? >:(

Until proven otherwise, the economic (near)meltdown of the US economy was sparked by the FannieMae and FreddyMac bankrupcy, fuelled by the Federal Reserve asking China for "paper! more paper!"
(I know your currency is printed on cloth, by the way it AIN'T your currency, it's a kind concession by the Federal Reserve)

...not to mention Lehman Brothers & Co...

Until proven otherwise, IBM sold itself to China about 20 years ago, the Panama Canal Company is owned (OWNED, not just "run") by the Chinese Ministry for Commercial Shipping, and FORD Motor Co. is the only of the Big Three Auto manufacturers who did not have to ask European counterparts for leases.

GM in the US exists thanks to GM Europe and GM Australia, along with Presidential bailouts.

Chrysler was saved (literally, saved) by Mercedes-Benz, who realized they did what they could with their German pragmatism and sold it away for pennies to FIAT; the Italians, thanks to their inventive and "out of the box" thinking, made Chrysler successful again.

The US Armed Forces are deployed with uniforms... made in China...
I know, I trained and operated with US Forces for four years, 2003 to 2007, and ALL the gear I was issued had the same label...

The fundamental difference between the US and the European banking systems is...
::)
WE HAVE A SYSTEM ! 8-)

In order to qualify to open a bank and issue checkbooks, you need more than a few big cigars and a few handshakes with other bankers; you need to COMPLY WITH NATIONAL BANK LEGISLATION which, in the old days, meant you had to prove the Royal Coffers you could actually make a profit, and not run into debt with fancy handshakes and underthecounter monkey business.

Here in Europe we have... ::) over 800 years of proven records that our system works.

An example ?

Monte dei Paschi di Siena, an Italian Bank established in 1472.

WebsterMark, what were YOUR ancestors doing in 1472 ? Running around in furry underwear ?

So, before you speak foul of Europe, rinse your mouth with soap.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/05/12 at 13:15:44

Mpescatori - I have 1 counter point to say. Odd huh, I am getting between you and your intended audience which is webster.

I'll use this example from this side of the pond.
When lehmann brothers failed, a lot of people said Lehmann lived for 150 some years starting as a small store in Alabama somewhere and failed ... when someone else (it was on the radio) said that the lehmann of the last 150 years had long died and was replaced by this entity bearing its name in the last 10 years.

Example in europe: Ireland and the people there of were dirt poor till the credit and property bubble bit them, and they leveraged themselves into deep deep debt.

Example round the world: We take something that took the earth 1000's of years to create safely hidden deep in its depths - oil, use it for a minute (plastic, internal combustion, petrochemicals etc) and dispose of it in the most precarious location where it degrades the environment forever.

You may have a history, however the modern vices of greed, leverage and dodgy accounting have long since over written that history and sent 1000 years of good governance hiding. OTOH in the US we trampled over the last 50 years of good practices.

Does that make 1 mess better than the other ? I really doubt it. US has been saved to an extent by the fact that we are leveraged in our currency, one we can freely print. Not in someone else's currency where the political process to print is so cumbersome it is likely to never happen.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/05/12 at 13:23:20

Until proven otherwise, the economic (near)meltdown of the US economy was sparked by the FannieMae and FreddyMac bankrupcy, fuelled by the Federal Reserve asking China for "paper! more paper!"

Yes, it was. (glad you realize our economic meltdown wasn’t caused by wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but by a government led intrusion into free market)

I don’t understand why you are freaking out over my objections about being lectured by Europe on leaders? You are in the middle of your own financial mess created by the same government policies favored by soon to be ex-President Obama. It’s not surprising you would think he’s great. Fine, take him, he’s going to be looking for work soon.

WebsterMark, what were YOUR ancestors doing in 1472
Getting ready to leave Europe….

What were your ancestors doing in 1941 other than begging the Yanks to save them; again?..

So before speaking foul of the US, thank us first before opening your mouth.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Serowbot on 11/05/12 at 15:36:54

Webster, .. Romney suits you well...
You're are both snide, insulting men... totally lacking in character...

Europe likes Obama becomes he isn't... he isn't the typical rude, disrespectful, American that is so common it's become a stereotype that we have to live down...

What does this gain you,.. being so insulting?...
When Romney loses tomorrow you should take your insults back to where left to before...
You add nothing but unpleasantness to this site...

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/05/12 at 15:59:06

You're are both snide, insulting men... totally lacking in character...
not ture at all, for either of us.

Europe likes Obama becomes he isn't... he isn't the typical rude, disrespectful, American that is so common it's become a stereotype that we have to live down...
Europe (parts of it anyway) likes Obama because he believes as they do that freedom is handled down from government and not up from the people.

What does this gain you,.. being so insulting?... I would bet any fair accounting would show I am overwhelmingly insulted far more often and more vile than anyone else on here. I don't recall starting anything. I was attacked as soon as it was known I had conservative views.

When Romney loses tomorrow you should take your insults back to where left to before...
deal. If Romney loses, I will leave the forum for good. I would not ask any of you to make a corresponding bet because 1) Obama is going to lose and 2) this means far more to you than it does to me.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/05/12 at 16:43:16

392F38253D28253E4A0 wrote:

Are any of us unaware of how arrogant Obama is? How he has insulted all of us? He put a Monsanto lobbyist in as HEAD of the FDA. The very people the FDA needs to stop, now has one of its most ardent supporters, in charge of the FDA. Might as well put Sandusky in charge of a home for wayward boys.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Starlifter on 11/05/12 at 18:38:25

We'll miss you Webby, it's been a trip.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Trippah on 11/05/12 at 18:45:48

I mean really, Sandusky as head of boys school> We all know that the US Senate claims Eminent Domain in that program, flipping pages has been going on forever (yeah, the church has its own program),,what happened to speration of church and state??? It gets so confusing. 8-)

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/05/12 at 19:20:01

01273C2525343D550 wrote:

:) :) :)

I larfed

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by LostArtist on 11/05/12 at 21:02:16

web, so you're just going to stick around if romney wins to rub obama supporters faces in it?? yeah, that's that american rude character you love. conservatives call that behavior "leadership" while those of us that have outgrown that egocentric BS see it as insecure bully behavior

here's a clip showing that kinda character

http://mlb.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?width=400&height=254&content_id=25466945&property=theblaze"

and this from the ever classy glenn beck

his prepper ideas may have value but his attitude about that shown here is completely uncalled for and shows his true aweful character. acting like this disaster is the time or place to have an "I told you so" party

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by LostArtist on 11/05/12 at 21:04:51

61475C4545545D350 wrote:

just like Texas' "regulation" of chemical/oil plants that depends on the oil/chemical company reporting on themselves, nah we don't need no stinky EPA here, we treat the oil/chemical companies just like the bankers, they can write their own rules and regulate themselves, it'll all be fine

now I do think that the EPA is a bit big for it's britches, but there are some things it should do

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/05/12 at 21:16:51

If we could get rid of the federal branch that is Centralized POwer, & therefore, easily infiltrated & corrupted, & spread that authority out & into the states, we could Elect our heads of these bureaucracies & fire them when they fail. The way it is now, once they get their hooks into an office, WE have no recourse, because they are Appointed. Here we have a GLARING example of conflict of interest & Bammy stands there trying to not laugh, telling us how "Proud he is to give us such a fine man to handle such a responsible position",, Give Me a BREAK!!
Anyone who can know this & STILL pretend he is a good president ? Well,, I have words for that, but they would get me banned.

That Said, I dont trust Romney, either,, IOW, as Ive said before,

Both Sides SUCK.. PLease, see it, agree with it, get over it.
Shoulda supported Ron Paul. He would have either changed the direction of the country or been killed for trying, More likely, the latter. The POwers that Be will not be stopped by one man,

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by LostArtist on 11/05/12 at 21:19:26

trust me, the state and local levels are just as easily corrupted as the federal level

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/05/12 at 21:41:08

Maybe so, but as an elected official, more locally l;ocated, more easily accessible, more easily supervised & more easily replaced.,Its better to have the fed agency gone,

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Serowbot on 11/05/12 at 22:10:37

734146575041566945564F240 wrote:

When Romney loses tomorrow you should take your insults back to where left to before...
deal. If Romney loses, I will leave the forum for good. I would not ask any of you to make a corresponding bet because 1) Obama is going to lose and 2) this means far more to you than it does to me.

Web,... I'd prefer that you just learn to play nice...
We can all disagree and keep it fun and friendly... without being insulting or rude... without adding a personal insult to every post...
In my 6 years here,.. I have sort of assigned myself the task of making this place friendly...
I got too angry... Sorry... I have never said that to any member...

How 'bout a wager...
If Romney wins,.. I'll never respond to any of your posts...
If Obama wins,... you will never put a personal insult into a post...
The penalty for either, will be a public apology...
... and we both continue to enjoy the site...
Peace,
Serow

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/05/12 at 22:21:45

As far as I can tell, all indicators say Obama wins, NOW, if Romney wins, with all the indicators pointing to Obama,. things just mite get ugly.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Serowbot on 11/05/12 at 22:28:24

627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 wrote:

NOW, if Romney wins, with all the indicators pointing to Obama,. things just mite get ugly.

I know I will... and that's just hard to comprehend... :-?...

EDIT... just realized,.. that could mean I'm just too cute to get ugly,.. or I'm so ugly it can't get worse...
... hint,... I don't wear a helmet for nothing...
EDIT... did it again... could go either way...
... hint,... I only appear in photo's with FF helmet...
That nailed it... ;D...

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/06/12 at 05:07:28

Web,... I'd prefer that you just learn to play nice...

I reply in kind as to how I am treated. I've never had a cross word with JOG at all despite the fact I disagree strongly with the many of his post. Jog does not call people stupid, dumb etc... at least not me anyway. I could probably go back a year or so and find the first time I was called a knuckle draging caveman, i'm sure by Star, because I probably stood up for the life of an unborn baby or something.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/06/12 at 05:25:10

As far as I can tell, all indicators say Obama wins, NOW, if Romney wins, with all the indicators pointing to Obama,. things just mite get ugly.

There are 3 outcome possibilities

1) Several well known Republican consultants and talking heads predict a large Romney win. That’s the best scenario for everyone involved. It complete repudiates Obama’s European vision for American and gives us a chance (a small chance) to recover.

2) Obama wins a squeaker. That’s the likely outcome according to the majority of the main stream media talking heads. Republicans will be civil in their disappointment as always, (there will be no 'tea party riots') but with the house still intact, they can stop or slow down a disastrous 2nd term.

3) Romney wins a squeaker. This is the worst case scenario as there will likely be violent protest by the fringe left. (OWS could be back and with rocks, bottles and clubs) Obama’s entire legacy and the country’s sanity will depend upon his concession speech. He could quite literally tear the country apart by alluding to false charging of cheating or voter suppression while ignoring all evidence of this on the other side. Our MSM will of course take his side as evidence by the unbelievable case of 60 minutes leaving that question and answer on the cutting room floor. I have no confidence he would do the right thing in this circumstance.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/06/12 at 05:53:15

223D3B3C21261727172F3D317A480 wrote:

As far as I can tell, all indicators say Obama wins, NOW, if Romney wins, with all the indicators pointing to Obama,. things just mite get ugly.

I think that is what is going to happen ...
Not the ugly part.

The congressional districts are definitely going to Romney IMHO, democraps have been districted out of those. Senate also will be going to the repugs I think.

I think Obama is going to start out looking like winning and in the end lose as the RMoney machines shred and swallow votes for Obama.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/06/12 at 06:48:44

I think Obama is going to start out looking like winning and in the end lose as the RMoney machines shred and swallow votes for Obama.

Unless he is joking, see my point being made? No real evidence of this, in fact there's more on the other side, but already the liberal groundwork is being laid.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by mpescatori on 11/06/12 at 06:54:01

OK Webstermark, you want to add insult to insult, go ahead, I have square shoulders and can take your gauntlet.

Where were YOUR ancestors in 1472, WM ?

I'll try to solve this puzzle singlehandedly, without knowing you, so my approach will be pragmatic and scientific; I will think (in writing) as an amateur historian and anthropologist.

1472, 20 years before the declared discovery of the Americas by Columbus.

As I do not know you, WM, I will have to go by trial&error and a good dose of hard facts.

1) IF your skin is white, then you are presumably of British / Germanic stock OR of Hungarian / Slavic stock, which leaves us with four possibilities:

1.1 : British: as the 20th generation of a British expatriate, you were either a soldier (press-ganged into serving His Majesty King James or King George) or a civilian sentenced by His Majesty's Court to the Galleys (oar-driven warships where the oarsmen were chained, unlike Genoese / Venetian ships where the oarsmen were free men and would contribute to the assault); incidentally, the United Kingdom was the ONLY European Nation where a WHITE FREE MAN, a KING'S SUBJECT could be sentenced into SLAVERY because he couldn't pay his debts; see Shakespeare and his tragedies.

1.2 : Germanic: this includes the Austrians, the Dutch and Flemish as well as the Pomeranians and Alsatians. You were most certainly a peasant, possibly recruited into a Regiment of Lansquenet (Flemish) or Landsknecht (German), the poorer than dirt foot soldiers armed with a long pole and anything they could tie to it (generally the farmer's sickle they hung at their belt) and which were infamously feared by the French and the Italian Bishiops for their careless pillaging of churches, abbeys and monasteries; until the Croatian War of Independence in the late 1990's, Landsknecht were the ONLY soldiers in European history to rape nuns in convents.

1.3 Hungarians: (also known as Magyars) descendants of the Tatars who invaded from the Ukrainian steppes; they ran wild and careless and ravaged whatever they could find, and were known for their ruthlessness and their spite for art and culture, until they started trading with Byzanthium (Greek city and Capital of the Roman Empire of the East) and Venice.

1.4 Slavs: be they the RUS who ravaged the Baltic Sea or the Vikings who sailed the Northern Atlantic, the most they contributed to humanity was a cartoon character by the name of Thor and his ill-tempered hammer.

2) IF (and that's a big IF) your skin is black, then you most probably come from the region of the Gulf of Guinea between the two infamous posts of Dakar (Senegal) to the Northwest and Libreville (Gabon) to the Southeast. Much (too much) has been said (and misquoted) about the slave trade from Western Africa and the Americas. What is generally shushed away are two hard facts:

2.1 The slave trade was possible because the local kings and warlords would pillage each others' villages - so it was the local peoples which actually fueled the availability of slaves in the first place;

2.2 The slave trade was "monopoly" of the arab and somali pirates and merchants since biblical times - see King Solomon's efforts to protect his mines and workers (slaves = POWs) from pirate raids in the Red Sea... see the "United Emirates" which became the "Trucial States" when the Royal Navy got there, but were earlier described by merchants of Europe and Middle East alike as "Villains of the Sea" (the 1001 Nights is a rich source of history, by the way)

I deliberately leave out the Hispanics from my analysis, because a) it would be too difficult to determine if you are of Maya, Olmec or Azthec origin vs. Spanish proper, and b) because successful Hispanics stay where the family lies.

--- ooo ---

Having said that, let's see what MY ancestors were doing in 1472, shall we ?

My Father was Tuscan, and his family served the ArchDuke of Tuscany (mostly the Medici) for many, meny hundreds of years of *documented* history.
His family come from VOLTERRA, which is so ancient, it was an Etruscan city well known in the "Dodecapolis" (Confederation of the Twelve Cities) in the 8th Century BC.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Etruscan_civilization_italian_map.png/350px-Etruscan_civilization_italian_map.png

That's 2200 years BEFORE your furry underwear... ::)

My Mother comes from Istria, that diamond-shaped peninsula just east of Trieste, from a village named "Pinguente" (abundant) now called Buzet in Croatian.

My Mother's family has a distinct history of being Venetian or Austrian Magistrates, my last great-Grandfather being the Chancellor of the Court of Law in Fiume (today, Rijeka in Croatia) for the Emperor Franz Joseph.
You don't become the Chancellor of the Imperial Tribunal for nothing.
You can't just go out and buy the job.

What were my grandparents doing in 1941 ? You mean, while in the US the third party was the Nationalsocialist Party of America?

My maternal Grandfather, having already fought 4 years in the Carpathians for Austria against the Russians, was too old to be recruited;
furthermore, he was a teacher and a Party Official, and his social position was more useful in town than on the battlefield.
He descended from the deposed dynasty of the Marquis de' Gravisi, Lords of Istria from 1420 to 1797.
The title still stands to this day, but is pointless in a Republic, and the lands were all seized by Dictator Tito of Yugoslavia in 1946.

My paternal grandfather was a Captain in the Italian Merchant Navy and, regardless having little/no radio communicatuions the way we use them these days, successfully dodged the Royal Navy and delivered supplies throughout the war effort.

I would avoid tattling over ancestry with anyone from the Old World, WebsterMark, because if you think about it, you don't stand a chance.

Maurizio Pescatori, Esq.
Marchese de' Gravisi
http://digilander.libero.it/lucio.trieste/VARIE/5.jpg

Signore della Rocca di Pietrapelosa
http://revitas.org/files/images/gallery/424x220-4/pietrapelosa01.jpg
(this is what's left of the family castle after the Napoleonic War and WW II, the Austrian Emperor, then Tito's Communist regime forbade to restore it)

For more Coats of Arms of the Gravisi Dynasty, please see http://www.crsrv.org/pdf/monumenta/182-223.pdf

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by mpescatori on 11/06/12 at 06:57:51

http://video.it.msn.com/watch/video/homer-vota-romney-e-se-ne-pente/6hfoplun

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by WebsterMark on 11/06/12 at 07:45:08

I would avoid tattling over ancestry with anyone from the Old World, WebsterMark, because if you think about it, you don't stand a chance.

That interesting stuff, honest, it is. I like family histories. If you want to spend a lot of time and effort trying to show me how smart you are, you succeeded. You are clearly very well read.

Don't stand a chance at what? Family history? Have no idea what my family history is. I barely knew my parents. I am an American mutt like many others whose family heroics are lost to history. Someone in the past came to this country to look for something better, struggled, worked hard and must have found it. I certainly have prospered here far better than I would have in Old Europe where apparently your family history carries an awful lot of weight.

All I know is for the past 100 years or so, the world is a better place because of the US and it's commitment to freedom. I'm in no hurry to replace what we have now with European style soft socialism. Been to Europe a few times and Italy once. Nice place. Have no desire to live there, but nice place. Bergamo was a beautiful city full of friendly people. Found out the hard way two things: you Italians like to drink a lot of wine early in the day and 2) forget about doing business in August. The whole country seems to close.

But, i didn't start this, you did. All I said was I want no part of Europe's financial mess and if you like Obama so much, take him, he yours. He'll fit right it.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/06/12 at 07:48:27

You can trace your history back 500 years. As can your bank.

So now how does that affect the collapse of europe vs US and how does it matter.

Both europe and US screwed up in the financial sector, US sort of internally cos it is one country, and europe externally cos it is many countries, the brits bought rental properties in Czech republic, greece borrowed from the central bank which is defacto german etc etc.

You're as a result mistakenly assuming your system is superior ...

Of course I have heard in spain all home loans are "full recourse" as in you owe the bank the $$$ no matter what. In the US after living in for 3 years or if it is your only home, it is not full recourse.

I dont think that make your system better, even in the US you have varied foreclosure laws, texas has sudden death, 15 days to foreclosure from notice of default and others with over 1 year ...

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/06/12 at 12:26:00

5B696E7F78697E416D7E670C0 wrote:

Plenty of evidence ... and not just for this time, back to 2000, Jeb Bush the guv'nor helped suppress black votes in a state Jorge Bush won by 500 votes ...
Mitt RMoney's prior firm owns the voting machine company ...
Paraphrasing of course.
Just cos librulls are complaining doesn't mean its all in our heads.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/06/12 at 12:32:53

Like this -
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/watch-glitch-voting-machine-pennsylvania-171806481--election.html

Remember this was the state that implemented the voter ID rule to help romney win the state.

The man, a software developer, tried troubleshooting the screen, selecting different names. But "the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney." A few more taps, and he discovered that the only way to select Obama was to click on a small sliver of the screen. All of the buttons for the other candidates seemed to work fine.

Other voters at the precinct didn't have the same problem, he said, and the volunteer didn't seem concerned. "She him hawed for a bit then calmly said, 'It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK,' and went back to what she was doing," he wrote. "I then recorded this video." He insists that the video is unedited—the jumpy frames are from the camera app on his Android phone, he says.

A rich man wants to be president, I guess he will be president.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/06/12 at 12:47:00

And more from that article ...

There are other problems occurring as well. In some minority neighborhoods in Galveston, Texas, polling places opened late, making it impossible for people to vote earlier in the day. (The Galveston County Daily News reports that those 45 voting centers will stay open two hours later, until 8:54 p.m., to make up for the delay.)

And thanks to a different kind of technological glitch, there were also some voters in Pinellas County, Fla., who received phone calls on Tuesday morning reminding them to vote on Wednesday—the day after Election Day. In Oregon, an election worker was fired after she allegedly tampered with ballots by writing in Republican candidates in places where voters had left sections blank.

And in the heavily Democratic city of Philadelphia, the Republican Party reported that 75 legally credentialed voting inspectors were kicked out of polling places. Local prosecutors are investigating.

But the biggest problems reported by voters so far? Long lines.

I guess its time for yahoo the librull media to stop spreading the lies huh ...

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/06/12 at 23:41:56

In Oregon, an election worker was fired after she allegedly tampered with ballots by writing in Republican candidates in places where voters had left sections blank.

Fired? Izzat ALL? Dont get me wrong, FIRED is a great first step, but Id lean toward Arrested as a pretty good Next Step.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by mpescatori on 11/07/12 at 03:59:51

In "European Socialist" :o >:( ;D ;D ;D Italy that electiohn worker would be arrested on the spot and tried in no time.

After 20++ years of "NationalSocialism" and 60 years of "Democracy" we don't like vote riggers.

And THAT is a fact.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by mpescatori on 11/07/12 at 04:13:43

By the way...

1) In Italy Election Day is always a Sunday, so there's no error on that;

2) In Italy Voting Stations are situated in schools, so the premises are both a) Government buildings and b) politically neutral

3) In Italy Voting Stations are policed by two teams of three, i.e. one policeman and two Acting/Reserve/Militia Servicemen, in shifts, so there's no hanky-panky

4) In Italy Election Workers receive the status of "Election Official" by the Governor (so arguing/squabbling with them is like squabbling with a LEO, you don't want to do that) BUT they have a Damocles' Sword hanging over their head, one mistake and you "go to Jail without collecting from GO!" (play Monolopy, anyone? You know what I mean)

5) In Italy Election Ballots are in paper and you mark them with an indelible pencil, your first mark on that slip of paper is what counts, no going back

6) In Italy you are PROHIBITED from entering the privacy of the Voting/Polling Booth with a cellphone of any kind, in order to avoid the exchange of votes for favors. You leave the phone with the Police upon entry and you collect it as you leave.

7) Voting Stations open at 07:00 am and close at 10:00 pm, and that's the way it's been since 1946, and everyone knows you vote on Sunday from 7 to 10.

All in all, it is a system which works and has prevented odd turnouts such as that of Pres. Bush in the year 2000 when he lost the ballot 47.9% to 48.4% to Al Gore, but thanks to the State of Florida (Jeb Bush) he scored an overall majority of 0.0092%
(that means 92 votes over one million voters)

In Europe such a result would have had another outcome.
(and, perhaps, no WTC disaster... :-X)

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Serowbot on 11/07/12 at 06:07:49

Pescatori,.. Florida could really use your help...

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/07/12 at 07:48:58

Strange how our leaders , all of who have studied History, as I was forced to, myself, seem so unaware of what happens around the world. How they allow things to happen here that is clearly not a good thing to happen, while they have models of working systems to look at & emulate.
The policy makers who demand kids study history, supposedly for the high minded purpose of allowing them to see the mistakes of the past & avoid them in the future, fail to use the things in the world that work. They seem to avoid it, with a passion.

Why is our Goob healthcare system so different from the Euro model?
When it was being promoted, that was one of the things they used, "Look! Other nations do it & its working" BUt did they use it as a Model for ours? Or did they write up a load of crap thats just gonna benefit the corporations, again?

There's no logical, rational reason for our elections to be the way they are. Unless, of course, if you believe handing over control of the outcomes of our elections to corporations & paying them to take that control with taxpayer $$$ is a logical, rational thing,

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Serowbot on 11/07/12 at 08:55:05

Dems wanted a national health,... they were forced to add the Mandate and private insurers element to pacify the Reps and their big money interests...
... but,.. it is done... and once it's up and running, the HMO's will dry up and blow away,... and the system will end up covering everyone... just as a national health system should...

...and,.. everyone will contribute, and, small and big business will be relieved of the burden of private insurance, and they will thrive...
A big cost savings for business..
A big boost in employment in the medical field...
...and everyone is covered... no more medical bankruptcy for families...

Pescatori, and the rest of the civilised world look on and say...
"Duh!... it's about time"...
;D...

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by srinath on 11/07/12 at 13:54:49

The democrats did a very poor job of explaining it before it happened. They ended up looking like it was rushed ... and was full of snakes ...

Thankfully all the good in it has gone into effect, my hope is the bad will be legislated out @ the state level.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/07/12 at 21:22:39

The democrats did a very poor job of explaining it before it happened.

A Poor Job? Really>? YOu think its a "Poor Job" of explaining it when Pelosi comes out & says
Youll have to pass it in order to find out whats in it...?

Why did we not send a delegation around to other countries to see how they did it & copy the good parts & avoid the bad parts? Not because no one thot of it, but because it is agenda driven with political goals to achieve built into it,. Its done very poorly & will have us all crying in 5 years or less. & it could have been done much better, just by looking at how nits done in other places,.

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by mpescatori on 11/08/12 at 00:01:58

JOG and Serowbot,

there is one fundamental difference between the European Health System and the US Health System: HOSPITALS.

In Europe, hospitals were established as early as 400BC based on the Egyptian model in use as far as 3000BC+; I am not kidding you, all Greek cities had a hospital of sorts where the ill and the contaminated were invited - or commandeered - to go. They were run by the Temple Priests - medicine being considered not "magic" or "sorcery" but a "secret science" which only the Initiated were allowed to learn.
OK, odd, but the system worked.

Imperial Rome had a network of hospitals throughout the land.
Every single Legion had its Field Hospital with trained surgeons and medics.

In the Middle Ages... the first half, known as Dark Ages, you could knock at a Monastery and hope the local "herbiculturist" or "surgeon" would take a look at you under the Abbott's permission, but generally health care was limited to the wealthy, and the poor relied on local village herborists... which to the monks appeared as "witches" because they knew things unknown to the monks themselves...

Come the second half of the Middle Ages, after the Crusades and the Middle East experience of the Knights in shining armor... what had they seen, what had they learned? That in Jerusalem, the local Muslim rulers had implemented hospices for the ill and the contaminated, open to all, Pilgrims of all Faiths... (!!!)

So, soon, the Princes and Dukes openes Hospices in their own initiative back home, and since the 11th Century this was the rule in any major town or city in Europe; wherever you go, you will always find a hospice of sorts run by either the local Abbey or the local Prince.

So Hospitals today are PUBLIC because they either belong to the STATE or to the CHURCH.

So, what about the US ?

Firstly, I do not know if there are any "state" hospitals; I am aware of a few "County Hospitals" but are they really run by the County, or are they called such simply because they are the only hospital in said County?

Secondly, most hospitals bear names such as "Mt.Lebanon" or "1st Methodist" Hospital which means they were established not by the State or by the Church (meant as the global religious community) but by the local community, and having no State funds as such they MUST be run like a business.

In order for the State of... Connecticut (see, I can spell it!) to run a European-style Health System, it should first of all BUY major shares in ALL hospitals state-wide, in order to have a say in their Board of Directors and possibly more...
but...
...how much would this cost? Would such a REVOLUTION be acceptable to the tax-payer ?

I am afraid not.

So, what happens is that the current system will never be changed, other than ensuring that the ones with the lowest incomes be freed from the risk of having to die or remain crippled because they cannot afford specific treatment, and their insurance will coldly deny any form of funding.

See "The Rain Maker"

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYdFbWqwtgRHbpOpwTiXzLYhC1aLNYO_HFsi-XYNjTA9UlNYI3SdtBBvJQww

Title: Re: I wass born een dah Social hisst kon-tree.
Post by Serowbot on 11/08/12 at 00:46:34

What a hodgepodge... and the US is much worse...

From what I understand,..there are 4 types of hospital here...
...county or state... mostly for indigent, and poor...
...religious,.. which is for-profit, but somehow church affiliated...
...educational,.. related to medical training, but still for-profit, with a collection of med students and teachers on staff...(research happens here)...
... and private,.. strictly a commercial enterprise..

I have no clue which is better... I guess it depends on why you're there... :-?...

... but, to my mind.. hospital, should be for emergency, and surgery...
... private practice doctors,.. should be for the rich... or chronically ill...

... and the most efficient general care, comes from clinics...
This is a collection of medical experts... doctors, nurses, lab, test, and x-ray... that can handle medical needs that don't require major surgery, or chronic care...
Coughs, colds, flu,.. cuts, bruises, broken bones, etc...
One facility, that can triage, test, diagnose, and treat or refer the patient to a specialist or hospital if needed...
Cheaper, faster, and more convenient... for basically healthy people in need of care...

The system here,.. is emergency room, for those without insurance... or a gauntlet of private doctors, separate labs, and test centers, and specialist doctors, for those with insurance...

Clinics,.. offer "one stop" care... to take care of all symptom analysis and treatment up to the point of needing specialist treatment or surgery and hospitalisation...

A for-profit system,.. does not encourage this type of care.. too efficient...
There's more money in the gauntlet of care... gatekeeper, refers for tests, back to gatekeeper, refer to specialist,.. refer to surgeon, refer to hospital... where all of them drop in to collect fees...and then run the gauntlet in reverse for post-op check-ups and advising...
In America,.. you either don't get decent care, or you get too much...
You either go straight to the emergency room, and get kicked out fast... or you run around in a mad circle of appointments to get what everybody knows you need...
We are a medical mess...

My hope,.. is that a single provider system (eventually,... Obamacare is only a prototype),.. will encourage a unity of purpose that will make care more efficient and effective...
Healthcare is more effective and efficient almost anywhere but here...

PS.. I'm British born,.. and have lived in England, Germany, and the US...
(Care in the US is the worst... although, military care works well and is efficient)... I'm a military brat...