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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> warning for new Savage owners! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1351392678 Message started by MeLikeBike on 10/27/12 at 19:51:18 |
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Title: warning for new Savage owners! Post by MeLikeBike on 10/27/12 at 19:51:18 Just a warning to new Savage owners. I'm a n00b, so take it from a n00b. Read this to understand why: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1] Then just go buy yourself a Raptor petcock....My engine started sputtering going up a steep stretch of US 30 at about 50mph...then the engine cut out. LUCKILY I was in the right lane and had plenty of time and room to coast into a lot and check the fuel...HALF TANK. I started her up again (after choking, switching to Reserve, etc) the drove to the gas station, filled the tank and drove home. The sputtering has happened to me before a few times...sometimes I was actually out of gas, and other times, plenty of fuel. I've done the petcock test and passed, but I'm not going to ignore the experts anymore. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Badass94Cad on 10/29/12 at 08:55:13 Monroeville in Monroe County? I'm in Bucks. 8-) |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Oldfeller on 10/29/12 at 09:37:14 And now, as a reluctant convert, you get to give your initial impressions of your bike's performance after you Raptor it, that is. Any felt differences? (might well be as there are six known vac petcock failure symptoms and it is not unusual for you to have been putting up with 2-3 of them when one of them finally gets bad enough to gain your attention) |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by TobyJug on 10/29/12 at 17:08:26 I just changed mine a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure she runs better. A bit more responsive, maybe. Jug |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by MiCTLaN on 10/30/12 at 14:59:58 After having to turn the lever to prime (yet again) about two miles after filling up the bike, I finally ordered a Raptor today. Now I'll just have to get re-accustomed to turning the lever off when I get off the bike. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by EJID on 10/30/12 at 15:13:53 5E5A50475F525D330 wrote:
It's not an absolute necessity...I put the Raptor on mine at the beginning of the season and I think I have only turned it off maybe 2 times all summer. (Apparently I haven't had any issues with a stuck float, I better go knock on wood now) |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Doug B on 10/30/12 at 15:30:25 16353D3F3C35353C2B590 wrote:
Oldfeller - apart from the safety/reliability issues what are your thoughts/experiences in switching to the Raptor I'm curious as to what performance gains could result in going to a gravity fed petcock ? doesn't the vacuum operated type only give us an automatic shutoff ? |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by MeLikeBike on 10/30/12 at 17:52:24 Sorry BadCad, Monroeville as in Allegheny County...15mi east of Pittsburgh. Oldfeller, I'll definitely put in a report...still waiting for the package to arrive, and Sandy to leave. Luckily Pittsburgh was only hit with a steady rain. Just a note about the "reluctant" conversion...the first time it happened, I was on my, like, first or second motorcycle ride not on my street. I checked the tank, and it seemed low, and the switch to Reserve seemed to fix it....so I was out of gas, or so I thought. I did the vacuum test in the post, and I passed, so I thought I was okay. But OT's (I think it was OT) note about repeating the test rings true...this sort of problem sounds intermittent and sinister, and you never know. If you can't repeat it, you can't debug it. Good to know that leaving the manual petcock ON won't blow up your bike, because they scare you a little bit in MSF class. And I left it on at least 3 times during the class. Of course, I turned the key the wrong way and burned the battery out in "park". Does Yamaha make a replacement ignition? :) |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Serowbot on 10/30/12 at 18:04:20 There is no power gain or loss from any petcock,... unless the original petcock was malfunctioning.... Naturally,.. a malfunctioning petcock will either starve or flood,... in the vacuum petcock's case... this can be furious or subtle... ;)... |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by srinath on 10/30/12 at 18:09:38 I dont know how it is, but my savage petcock has never gave me an issue ... And ironically my MZ660 has a yamaha petcock very similar to the raptor ... While it isn't the source ... it does seem to be some weird sort of carrier. 6 savages not 1 was maintained too well ... 1 had an exhaust valve broken, one had been rammed into something breaking the forks ... one had a caked up tarred up carb set and air box and drain hose ... and a broken starter idler, another had the idler busted and gummed up carbs ... 1 just had a bad battery ... my first one, back in 96 ... when they just made it again, I found a cheapo 87 and ran it for a few years. Not 1 had a petcock issue. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Cavi Mike on 10/31/12 at 00:35:54 Petcocks are one of those out-sourced off-the-shelf items. That's why you'll find one from a completely different manufacturer's bike that is a direct bolt-on. A petcock is more like a piece of hardware than an actual part. A lot of the electrical components seem to be like that as well. I guess there's not much need to re-engineer certain items, it's more cost effective to make your product fit the part. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Cavi Mike on 10/31/12 at 00:41:03 283E29342C39342F5B0 wrote:
A petcock can't "flood" because its only option is to flood. The float needle valve is what controls the amount of fuel entering the bowl. The only way a carb can flood is if the float needle valve sticks - and this is no fault of the petcock. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Serowbot on 10/31/12 at 02:31:03 2103140B2F0B0907620 wrote:
A petcock can't "flood" because its only option is to flood. The float needle valve is what controls the amount of fuel entering the bowl. The only way a carb can flood is if the float needle valve sticks - and this is no fault of the petcock.[/quote] Cavi,... a vacuum petcock, with a tear ot leak in the diaphragm can and will leak fuel down the vacuum line... causing flooding... the float does not stop fuel going down the vac line... This is what makes them particularly dangerous.... |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Drifter on 10/31/12 at 05:37:54 Cavi, not so fast....several vacuum petcocks have filled the engine with gas due to the fuel going through the vacuum tube.....im one of them my vulcan had 3 gallons of fuel in the engine..never dreamed it could hold that much. Lots of strange things can happen. :o |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by verslagen1 on 10/31/12 at 07:25:36 7D5F48577357555B3E0 wrote:
A petcock can't "flood" because its only option is to flood. The float needle valve is what controls the amount of fuel entering the bowl. The only way a carb can flood is if the float needle valve sticks - and this is no fault of the petcock.[/quote] Unless of course the malfunction is a failed diaphragm seeping gas directly into the intake and bypassing the carb altogether. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Oldfeller on 10/31/12 at 08:15:53 373831530 wrote:
Oldfeller - apart from the safety/reliability issues what are your thoughts/experiences in switching to the Raptor I'm curious as to what performance gains could result in going to a gravity fed petcock ? doesn't the vacuum operated type only give us an automatic shutoff ? [/quote] I have to echo Serowbot, the performance increases you see are a result of getting a consistent full flow of gasoline. Nothing more. When a vacsucker begins to fail you have lots of times you don't get the optimum amount of gas delivered to your carburetor -- not enough lack to cause you to sputter and die stone dead, but to just run poorly, Your carb is regulated with the gas level just about at the top of the bowl -- that is its designed gas pool level. When you start running that level constantly up and down the depth of the bowl, your bike runs like crap some of the time. When it is below mid point, you are running LEANER and LEANER as it goes to zero. Problem is, this likes to happen when you are on interstates and major roads and you are trying to go fast. I used to tease Verslagen with this scenario -- going 80-85 on the 6 lane and the vacsucker begins to malfunction, bowl level drops and you start to lean out and you lose power going up a hill. What does your hand do? NEED MORE GO POWER, so you roll the throttle on and increase the demand for gas on an already partially empty bowl. Now you are running really really lean at full throttle, overheating your piston and your ring grooves do a little bit of close up due to mild piston wall scrubbing. Vola !! Your bike begins to consume oil .... (this was back in the days of the petcock wars, which we no longer have to do since we have seen this same thing happen on tear downs just this past month) Vacsuckers can affect your bikes performance by starvation and by alternate gas paths. Failing diaphragms can pass a trickle of gas down the vac tube to the carburetor body, where it becomes vaporized making your rich at low speeds. This error shows mostly at low speeds as the amount of gas leakage is small and has most effect at lower speeds. Now you are yo-yo'ing between rich and lean. So, there are five major known vac petcock failure modes that folks have stumbled over. Each of them can make your bike run poorly to some degree. A Raptor makes all five of them stop, instantly. Most Raptor folks say the Raptor makes their bike peppier and run better. I wonder why .... ;) |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Cavi Mike on 10/31/12 at 10:20:24 7167706D75606D76020 wrote:
I stand corrected. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Serowbot on 10/31/12 at 10:35:15 Cavi,.. now,... you get to explain it... to the next noob... ;)... |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by Dave on 10/31/12 at 17:10:39 191615185C0 wrote:
It's not an absolute necessity...I put the Raptor on mine at the beginning of the season and I think I have only turned it off maybe 2 times all summer. (Apparently I haven't had any issues with a stuck float, I better go knock on wood now)[/quote] Yep, I have forgotten to turn my Raptor off a time or two without a problem. I have now developed a routine of reaching down and turning it off as soon as I turn into my driveway......and I no longer forget....at least not when I am going home! |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by MeLikeBike on 11/11/12 at 18:02:03 I guess the peacock wars continue on another thread, but since someone asked, here's how it went for me when I tried the new raptor... Rode around feeling fine, seemed a little more aggressive (though I think I'm just getting more confident). Then I'm taking it up a hill..then the familiar stumble...then nothing. Zap, dead engine. what again? This was supposed to fix this nonsense!!! Then I realize that I never refilled the tank after draining it, except for the pittance of fuel that was supposed to get me to to the gas station. :-[ Switched it to Reserve, started her up, and headed to get gas. Seems to run great. Duh. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/11/12 at 19:09:27 One of the first things a new rider/mechanic has to learn is first aid for gunshot wounds to the foot. |
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Title: Re: warning for new Savage owners! Post by MeLikeBike on 11/12/12 at 04:52:00 So *that's* what the kevlar in riding gear is for! ;) |
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