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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Help!!! Carb problems I think? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1351305801 Message started by cafejim on 10/26/12 at 19:43:21 |
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Title: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by cafejim on 10/26/12 at 19:43:21 A few weeks ago I started to go on a ride without checking the fuel level. I got a little down the road and the bike killed on me. Started up again and died at a stop sign, sounded like it was starving for fuel so I shook the bike, didnt hear and sloshing around popped the cap off and its bone dry. Well, put some more gas in it from a gas can I had, It started up but then dies after about a 45 sec idle. I then took the carb apart and cleaned it, it was filthy, also put an inline fuel filter on it. Started right up again let it idle and it was fine. took it around the block and it rode kind of sluggish pulled into the driveway let it idle then it died. Now im back to my original problem... It almost sounds like to me that its getting to much fuel and flooding.... Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! By the way, when I had the carb apart cleaning it the float looked good as well as the diaphram, every part seems to move freely not getting stuck... |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Cavi Mike on 10/26/12 at 19:57:55 This forum really needs a "READ THIS FIRST" link at the top. Sounds like a petcock problem. Search "raptor" and you'll get the answers you are looking for. |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by 07s40scotty on 10/26/12 at 22:46:25 Maybe your petcock- check out the tech section theres a test there you can try.... lots of folks here have problems with the stock petcock & switch to one made for the Raptor. My bike is an 07 with 16,000 miles on it as of yesterday & I've never had any problems with my petcock though. |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by wambr on 10/27/12 at 00:24:03 I also think that the problem is in the petcock.It is not the best. check out his work. I put on his motorcycle repair kit ...but not much has changed for the better. a better option might really be RAPTOR |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Routy on 10/27/12 at 05:04:29 Quote: I then took the carb apart and cleaned it, it was filthy, ----------------------------------------------------------------- Describe "filthy" Just curious |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Charon on 10/27/12 at 06:40:14 If the carburetor was "filthy" where did the filth come from? The tank?The added in-line fuel filter may have already clogged. I tried an in-line filter on a Honda CH80 Elite. I bought the paper-pleated filter from a local motorcycle shop, added it in the fuel line, and all appeared well. Until the fuel got down to half-tank, at which time the scooter died. When I filled the tank all was well. I got home, removed the filter and have had no more problems. As soon as I removed the (visually clean) filter I tried blowing through it and noticed restriction. When it dried out the restriction was considerably lessened. Could be your new filter is the problem. |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/12 at 07:39:02 Isn't it amazing that Mr. Orange and Wernwilk and now CafeJim all have about the same starting symptoms and they always respond that they have already done everything you suggest (or immediately respond that they have done that, but later on you find that they really did something else that was "just as good" but not what they were supposed to do). Then after six pages of laboriously dragging them through the steps of trouble shooting, they disappear and a few days later a new name pops up with about the same exact symptoms .... Which do you think best applies? (you can vote for multiple items) There sure are a lot of Really Really screwed up Savages out there Some folks like to talk about their problems more than turning the wrenches to fix them Some sympathy is nice Some attention is nice Vac petcocks sure do suck, so do carbs and charcoal cannisters People sure are nice around here, let's come back for seconds and thirds Mebbe we can explain it better this time, or else mebbe they can Hey, lets start up 2-3 threads on the same bike/issue and make it REALLY REALLY confusing for everybody. Hey, let's pour all the nasty rusty watery gas out of your gas tank and change out your fuel filter with a brand new unclogged one after flushing everything out good with fresh gasoline, except this time do it the very first thing instead of the very last thing after 6 pages of chattering on about it. Hey, you could invent some new symptoms for a brand new problem ..... Be aware our list is haunted by the ghost of a carb problem troll who cannot ever rest until his rusted hulk of a Savage can go 90 mph (which mine can't even do on a good day) Realize it is Halloween, and "trick or treat" can happen even to the best of us ..... ;) |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/12 at 07:54:13 767473707F7C78150 wrote:
:D Colonel MickMustard in the living room with the gas can half full of watery rusty half-evaporated old nasty gasoline ..... |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Doug B on 10/27/12 at 11:44:36 Oldfeller - I don't know how many members/visitors of this site share in your brand of humor - but I do ! keep em coming maybe the names were changed to protect the innocent(or at least the chuckleheads) don't like charcoal filters ? (what about Miller Genuine Draft ?) Colonel Mustard ? I thought it was Mr. Green(or was it Mr. Orange ?) ;D |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/12 at 12:37:59 Old previous generation moderator inside joke, it is Colonel MickMustard which is the current code name for my favorite wee little He's my favorite pet troll for any season, actually .... you can get his action figure inside a Halloween Happy Meal at MickDonalds. http://blog.ocad.ca/wordpress/gdes3b44-fw2010-01/files/2011/03/trolldoll.jpg Now, let's see how many ways I can be wrong this time --- lots of ways I suspect, so we shall see which room the corpse moves to and which weapon winds up having done the dirty deed on his poor little corpus. :) This time let's ask for EXACT specifics like the model number of the carb that is cast on the main throttle body, the cast in place part number on the petcock and best of all, the die impressed vendor part number for the plastic float that doesn't exist anywhere. And the little part number that is embossed next to the arrow on the pointer lever on the factory vac petcock ..... Might as well let lil' Mick have some fun too, while we are having ours .... |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Charon on 10/27/12 at 13:27:59 Out of idle curiosity, and perhaps too much idleness, I just did a little measuring and calculating. From the carburetor inlet to the bottom of the tank is about four inches. From the carburetor inlet to the top of the tank is about twelve inches. This means the pressure (gravity induced) driving the gasoline into the carburetor varies from four to twelve inches of gasoline, or after some conversions from about 0.1 psi to about 0.3 psi. This low pressure is all there is to force the gasoline through the fuel line and any additional restriction caused by an added in-line fuel filter. Just thought you'd like to know. |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/12 at 13:39:54 Yup, that's why I am not a fan of itty bitty in-line filters. Should a small lawnmower type paper filter get WATER soaked it might not pass gasoline much at all, while the BIG CLEAR AUTOMOTIVE PLEATED PAPER FILTERS I like will separate water from gasoline, pass the gasoline and hold the water back so you can see it through the clear plastic sides. Why? Osmotic pressure -- what controls the filter paper is what wets it first (make sure it is gasoline and not water). Gas first, water can't get through. Water first however might mean the gas has a hard time getting through (until the alcohol content in the gasohol absorbed all the water inside the paper fibers, anyway) Badly water mixed gasoline might give you a come and go flow problem with a little bitty filter to some extent, but much less so if it was a BIG CLEAR AUTOMOTIVE PLEATED PAPER FILTER. This is on top of the ignition and run problems you would be having with that badly mixed stuff. With the Big Filter, you can fill it up 1/4 with water and it will still pass enough gas through the unaffected top half of the filter to keep your Savage running correctly. http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy323/Zaney1/Bikes/DSC01308.jpg |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Charon on 10/27/12 at 14:33:38 I wonder whether you might have gotten just a little lucky with that filter. All automotive filters are designed for use with fuel pumped systems, not gravity systems. Even the feeblest of fuel pumps will exceed the very low pressures of a gravity system, whether on the suction side or the pressure side. The fuel filter I tried on my CH80 is clear, pleated paper, just over an inch long and about 1.5 inches diameter not counting the fittings. At a guess that makes it shorter but slightly larger in diameter than yours. The CH80 has a greater pressure head, since its carburetor is mounted quite low. I deliberately bought the filter from a motorcycle shop, hoping it would work OK. It did, too, until the tank got low. I admit to using E-10, but I also have looked in the fuel tank and at least visually it is spotlessly clean. The CH80 does not have a reserve, so it always draws fuel from the bottom of the tank, which leads me to doubt water as a problem. I was able to get to a gas station, filled the tank, and fuel flowed again. Since the fuel filter was the last thing I had added, I removed it, and the scooter then ran out its next tank as usual. |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/12 at 15:28:30 Yup, dumb lucky -- that's me. Grab the first filter that will fit in the hole (barely) and then grab some cheap-assed thick rubber hose sitting right next to it. Whole shooting match costs less than $5 and took one stop at an AutoZone. Spend the next 4 years explaining why it works so well, but never fessed up it wasn't all pre-planned. Reason #2 sheer huge size -- filter never plugs up with crap although mine has been on there a long long time and has seen some funky gasoline on occasion. Check out the plastic on mine, all semi-opaque with sunshine and age and all scratched up vs the nice clean clear plastic on a new one. Old (mine) http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/fuelfilter.JPG New http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy323/Zaney1/Bikes/DSC01308.jpg Now the real Orange/WernWilk magic would have been he could have seen the rust bits in his gas and watched the globules of pure water collecting in the bottom half of the clear filter and he could have SEEN the no-gas condition from the vac petcock starving his butt for gas. Makes trouble shooting by the roadside a lot easier and simpler when you can instantly SEE what is going on. And when you finally find the real PRIME position on the stock vacsucker you can watch the gas run into and through the filter and when it fills up the float bowl and backs up in into the filter you can see that it is safe to try re-cranking the bike again. Magical dumb lucky, right? And just think of the 3-4 times poor ol' Orange had to tear his carb plumb apart because of rust bits that I can never ever have in my carburetor because of that HUGE fine pleated paper filter element that stops all that rusty crap without the filter paper plugging up, ever ..... And Orange sitting there with his finger up his plastic filled float bowl because he wouldn't listen. We should have some fun with these repeat customers, you know -- after 2-3 tries like this they deserve some fun'in. |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by 07s40scotty on 10/27/12 at 20:39:59 darn lol. I'm tryin to help someone who's looking for help for a problem that doesn't exist? I thought the plastic float sounded a bit like a fake- but I didn't have the balz to say it on that post :o |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/27/12 at 21:00:08 Gotta wonder what makes some people tick,, Itd be nice to beat the crap out of some of them, but then youd just be standin next to an empty hunk O skin & wadin around in all the poo,, cuz thats all thats in some of people.. |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Serowbot on 10/27/12 at 22:26:54 Is it gettin' a little "Lord of the Flies" in here, or is it just me?... :-?... If,.. somebody's gettin' a Jolie Rouge by seeing us help a noob,.. so be it... That's his problem... not ours... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/28/12 at 05:51:05 Hey, think of it as play rehearsals -- we are "polishing our act" by repeating the scene a few times. In reading through our two previous rehearsal performances, we do have some "noise" factors and rough edges in our performances though. In re-reading the various rehearsals I have noted a repeated flaw in our past performance, we have a few helpful folks who keep offering advice that applies to other makes and types of motorcycles. Heck, they even say this as they offer the advice. Mebbe we should try to keep all advice and examples strictly Savage related as them other brands and styles of bikes really don't apply to a Savage at all. Ours is a pretty unique critter, so when helping a newbie we should keep our discussions aimed at his problem and not talk about "when I had my Ducati, it had sorta kinda like the same thing". (see, nobody has had a Ducati except me and Lancer and Mescapatori so I picked me an example brand that doesn't upset any body since none of them guys participated in this one. If I had said Honda at least four folks would perk up and act offended, if I had said Suzuki hell, most of you would have perked up and got mad at me.) Next, on a long problem post -- first thing go to the newbie's personal info page and read his last 25 past posts. You can get you some background on his bike that way. You can also spot a ringer that way, as we have a problem troll that has been with us for over a year now -- he always refers back to previous things he has said though which according to his personal data don't exist as he is "a brand new newbie". Lastly, eating crow -- if you spot a ringer and are WRONG, just pick that black nasty crow up and take a big old bite and spit you some black feathers out after you swallow. Crow isn't that bad if it is relatively fresh, but that moldy old roadkill crow can sure sux rocks. Now our troll buddy has a goal, to prove that he is real so I will have to munch me some nasty moldy crow. This should prove amusing too. I can ask for Pictures of His Bike and suchlike "problem related" items. Hey, so can you. Sometimes I think our troll buddy doesn't even have a Savage right now as he falls down when he has to provide any details of any kind. He just ignores you and disappears for a few days to let everybody forget about the details that he owes. ============== Serowbot, it's Halloween time, not Lord of the Flies time ...... Ghosts and Goolies and things that go Bump in the Night time. Trick or Treat time, time to dress up and fiddle with your neighbor's house time. Besides, whoever is holding the spear in Lord of the Flies time has a pretty crappy job, not to mention the pig don't like it very much either. :D visions of Justin sitting there toasting the tip of a new whittled wooden spear tip in the camp fire to harden it up good, jest a thinking about him seating that smokin' hot tip up where the sun don't shine ..... muttering to himself "Kill the pig, slash her throat, spill her blood, bash her head, make her dead" you were right, the other one was Deliverance |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Doug B on 10/28/12 at 11:32:14 Oldfeller - I was happy to see your mention of just "funnin" a little with these guys its just a matter of time before I'm the target of these attempts at humor(bring it on) hell, I'm the biggest screw-up that I know but I can laugh at it and if you can't laugh at yourself - maybe you're taking life too seriously I've made a couple of posts(in response to yours) where someone might have taken offense not my intent but your comments inspire it(in a good way) and I think that most see it that way but what was that "sqeeeeeeeeel for me little piggy" thing ? have you been watching "Deliverance" again ? ;D |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/28/12 at 13:07:09 Nope, that's how the choir boys killed the big sow pig -- a sharpened & fire hardened spear and a little "Deliverance" action while singing their famous camp fire choir chorus of .... "Kill the pig, slash her throat, spill her blood, bash her head, make her dead" Them little boys, they likes their little play games with sticks and stones and such. ::) But yep, you were right, that other one was Deliverance with Ned Beatty playing the pig .... (I wuz all cornfuzed fer a minute as they sounded jest about the same, Ned Beatty and the old sow that is) ;D So, since we are brandishing spears and chanting, does that makes us like the lost choir boys ??? |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/12 at 13:51:11 Being a little hard to help, thats one thing, asking questions that have been answered a buzzillion times, no biggee, comin in here, not needing anything, just pretending to own a Savage, asking questions, being impossible to help, just to waste our time? Thats not cool.,, plastic floats,, gimmee a beak,, |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/28/12 at 14:36:44 So, you know he'll be back. Will you be able to detect him this time? Hint: Personal Information, bottom of the page, last 25 posts |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/12 at 18:05:42 Where do you get personal info? |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Serowbot on 10/28/12 at 18:39:22 Click on the persons name,.(like you are going to PM them)... That's their personal info page... Then look down the page,... very bottom... "Show the last 5,10 15 20 25 posts... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/28/12 at 18:45:39 HEY! Thats cool! I did that on the Rowboat,, just the last 5 posts, I dont see how thats gonna help a lot with some new name & only 1 or 2 posts, tho.. It was kinda fun readin Rowboats last 5 "contributions" to Hugh Manatee,, |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Serowbot on 10/28/12 at 19:03:16 56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:
I do so love those Manatees... :-?... http://www.gregorysweeney.com/store/mp8.jpg |
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Title: Re: Help!!! Carb problems I think? Post by Oldfeller on 10/28/12 at 23:36:56 Justin, this faux dude has been given like 20 total pages of posts on the same sort of issues -- when he reinvents himself he always wants to start out fresh as a zero knowledge newbie but then he suddenly wants to claim to have already done this and that -- items not mentioned in this new persona's past but he's suddenly replaced his vac hose and installed a fuel filter or halved his white spacer or checked his TEV diaphragm (items that reflect advanced troubleshooting but he's a virgin newbie, right?). Also he always claims to understand everything, but when pressed makes very vague responses that indicate 1) he has never read the reference and 2) he never did the fix -- but he says he "I just did that" to get the BS to continue on to the next step. This chronic dude has caused some troubleshooting guides to get refined a bit (Serowbot's Test is cleaner and neater now for example) and he has caused me to insist that we don't give a troubled newbie any more information until he has gotten back to us with the results of what he's already been told to do. And really, apart from the trouble troll, we really did use to FLOOD a newbie with way too much stuff to do all at once, and they got confused. And we got confused by ASSuMeing they had done what they were told to do (and they hadn't). And it degenerated from there. So, simplified clear stuff is the goal now, if it is carb/petcock related, start with Serowbot's test and THEN WAIT FOR THE RESULTS to come back before going anywhere else. If a newbie isn't going to do a Serowbot Test right, he's not going to do anything more complicated no matter what you tell him to do. ================ Serowbot's Test also quickly separates out the "I'm just fishing around a bit for some info before taking it in to the dealership" types because they own no wrists and own no wrenches. But apparently there are more and more of them out there that come here just fishing for some sort of knowledge and some information on what it could be. If they were honest, they'd still get help -- but to Justin's point people who are lying to us to keep us talking to you isn't a good way to be. Someone who comes on here with a new bike with a nagging problem gets some good advice on how to deal with a warranty claim at a dealership. They were honest, they got info on what they really needed to know. Bullshitters tend to get what they asked for ..... stuff they can't or won't be able to use because it wasn't what they really needed. I liked that one guy who came on and honestly said he was in college, had no time or place to work on his bike, had no tools at all of any kind and was totally broke. Somebody in California rode over and helped him do it, as I recall. Honestly represented, honestly answered. |
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