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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shipping /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1350672428 Message started by Oldfeller on 10/19/12 at 11:47:08 |
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Title: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shipping Post by Oldfeller on 10/19/12 at 11:47:08 Remember the predictions of this change up? Well, its here. Let's see how we did. First of all are the threats from 2 months ago .... http://www.slashgear.com/intel-apple-threatened-to-dump-us-over-our-greedy-chips-12171327/ ...... then come the decisions ...... http://semiaccurate.com/2011/05/05/apple-dumps-intel-from-laptop-lines/ Remember please, that Apple IS the 800 pound gorilla in this industry right now. So, HP has decided again to de-emphasize their PC business and focus on making printers, Apple has dumped Intel from their laptop business (their biggest business, PC & desktop isn't so large at Apple anyway). ARM cortex A-15 is making phones and tablets RIGHT NOW that can drop into the desktop role "as is" .... http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android ===================== What is next year like? Mobile tends to follow the tick tock model like most chip based products. First year is the "tick" and you introduce your new technology and let it settle into functional maturity. Next year is the "tock" where you shrink the product using a new smaller nanometer chip building system (refine your manufacturing). So, tick is design, tock is optimized manufacturing of that new tech. The smaller cheapie boys in China are one tick tock cycle behind the big boys. But they are playing leap frog now and some are catching up every other cycle now. China as a market is getting larger and larger after all .... So, where are we? A-15 is ticked and tock is coming (die shrink from 40 nanometer to 28 nanometer). Speeds go up, core counts can double "for free" on the same chip real estate when 28 nanometer comes into play. Intel's "advanced chip design" is failing them, they only are at 22 nanometer and their latest "tri-gate design" isn't yielding any real world advantage to them as their chips still suck too much power. The next upcoming tick in mobile is A-8 which is a full 64 bit chipset. Apple will get their hands on it early and go into full production the year before anyone else does (they are in secret production NOW). This jives with Apple kicking Intel off the island next year as far as mobile and tablets goes. Apple desktop may or may not go this year ... depending. Apple may have to wait for the next tock for the 64 bit ARM product to get the performance/core count to exceed Intel's products. 2014's Tock then is a killer for Intel. From the current 28 nanometer process mobile chips will go to 14 nanometer. Intel's "state of the art" then will be 12 nanometer with the cumbersome tri-gate technology that is more expensive and slower than ARM's simple quick 14 nanometer technology. Intel will have no real technological advantage at that point in time. 2 years from now Intel and AMD will possibly be producing legacy chips for a market that really doesn't exist any more. Or Intel will have to pull a serious tech breakthrough rabbit out of its hat and put it into production FAST. ::) Change, she comes ...... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Pine on 10/19/12 at 14:18:01 I have to say.. as an old DOS > win 3.1 > Win NT.... Win 7 user... nothing stays the same... WinTel has a firm hold on the good ole USA... but the rest of the world, could not afford to play and so grew thier own. Wintel ignored that.. possibly for too long. We shall see. Intel boys are not dumb, I suspect they will adapt. Much of this very much in flux.. all this "cloud" stuff. Cloud plays VERY WELL into content providers design. What would happen if I-tunes.... just went away. No refunds... no backups.. just poof .. sorry guys! or Nook, or Kindle... much of the new wave seems to be designed around cloud... and for now the cloud is cool. This merry-go-round is still moving... I am in the wait and see corner. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by 360k+ on 10/19/12 at 17:56:13 7940474C5D465B290 wrote:
DOS! You had DOS? I had binary switches when I first got mine wet (ummm, feet, I mean). 8-) Quote:
Problem with wait-n-see is you'll never buy anything, cause there's always a new wait-n-see pending. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/19/12 at 18:15:04 In the good ol USA a very close minority (just a few months ago it was still a majority) of the PCs still in use right now still use XP. Like 38% are still XP vs 40% Win7. http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10 An XP class machine will still keep on running XP (until an evil hacker attack or mebbe MS itself shuts it down through an update "glitch" right after support ends in 2014) and after that the old hardware can be scraped and reformatted to run Linux or Reactos until the cows come home. The old hardware is sound enough, just slow and it just uses more power than 15-20 ARM devices would use at that point in time. Actually, there is nothing wrong with my old white box, it runs what I use very much quick enough for me. In year 2014 I bet there will be lots & lots of better, faster, cheaper stuff to look at though. ===================== Intel is running out of options fairly fast. They have yet to show a chipset to successfully compete with ARM in the mobile space (either phone or tablet). Apple has just kicked them to the curb for laptops and MS can't really help them out there as MS is struggling to exist too. MS has its last shot at a future with Win8 and it is fumbling that chance at the moment by pointing almost exclusively at Intel x86 chip sets and at the desktop/laptop space. They talked a good tablet, but at $600 they didn't seem to actually be able to make one that was competitive. The Win8 for Arm effort is long term faulty as the SOFTWARE MASS to support this totally non-compatible effort isn't there (and nobody seems to be busy writing any massive amounts of new things for the MS Win8 RT system either). ================= Apple tablets however have a TON of neat stuff written for them, like 2-3 times as much software as Android does for tablets. Apple is selling just about all of the 10" sized tablets. Apple mini-tablet comes out next month .... price on that mini-tablet will be "category defining" in a lot of ways. ================= Google's new Nexus 7" tablet however still gets high marks though, because it is a 7" tablet with a very high definition display screen it can display an android phone app in a perfectly sized, very clear and usable fashion. It doesn't apparently need special apps written strictly for "tablet". As such, Nexus 7 tablets has a huge mass of good useable phone apps to pull from and isn't seen as "lacking" for software accordingly. 1,000,000 Nexus 7 tablets have been sold already and we aren't even heavy into the Christmas season yet. Nexus 7 sells for $199.99 but Apple could start out selling their mini-tablet at the same price (or slightly less) just to put a finger in Google's eye and kill their budding market share. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/12 at 19:28:23 I saw computers coming in,, thot to myself " Im not even gonna try to learn this stuff right now. Ill wait till they get them sorted out & they stop changing every year or so,, " That train is rollin so fast now,, theres no WAY I could get on board..I dont even want to now. I cant keep up in my own life, doin the stuff I know how to do,,if I need puter help, Ill call a puter doctor. I DO congratulate those who can do that stuff,, especially those among us who are over 45 years old. Especially considering some of you are not Just puter geek types, youre mechanics, too.. Thats extra cool, enviable & respectable,, now go away,, ya make me feel inadequater,, |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by 360k+ on 10/19/12 at 19:46:09 26393F3825221323132B39357E4C0 wrote:
I know the feeling... kinda like the first time my new GF in college took me to the nude beach. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/12 at 22:40:06 565043480804020308310 wrote:
I know the feeling... kinda like the first time my new GF in college took me to the nude beach.[/quote] Sooo,, you felt better about it the 2nd time? YOure sayin ya went back here,, you know that, right? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by 360k+ on 10/20/12 at 06:32:13 283731362B2C1D2D1D25373B70420 wrote:
Actually, I became a regular after that. When my GF told me we were going to the nude beach that first time, admittedly, I was a little nervous. She saw this and took the edge off telling me would be fun, and besides, suits are optional. So I'm thinking, yeah, she's right; if I don't feel comfortable I'll keep my swim trunks on. This, of course, is far from the reality I thought it would be. When we got to the beach we spread our blanket out on the sand, and she promptly slipped off her bikini. I kept my trunks on until I noticed that the other SEVERAL HUNDRED nude people on the beach were all staring at me, probably wondering WTF is this guy's hangup? In other words, yes, suits are optional, but I was the only one wearing one - talk about a deer in the headlights! I was the one out of place, and was forced to ask myself the same question they were. It is one of those life situations where you alone have to face your own inhibitions, and no one can help you. In short, that day was one of most profound and meaningful experiences of my life because, trust me, you shed a lot more than just your suit. The experience is entirely positive and not sexual, as you might think, but more about social declassifying and unburdening. ...however, I digress |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 07:55:50 but more about social declassifying and unburdening. ...however, I digress If we didnt digress here, just think of the goofball topics we would never talk about! In normal conversation, it is called Digressing, here, we call it thread creep,., Now, for more creeping, PLease, I am not trying to start a war, I wanna talk about this, because Ive never done that & never known anyone who did, and, I would appreciate a little more time spent on it, NOw, as for this "Social declassifying" thing,,Doesnt the beach pretty well do that, anyway? Hardly ever see a 3 piece suit on a beach, tho, I gotta admit, its sometimes easy enough to spot someone who Wants to carry the Badges of Social Classification with him everywhere.. The bright colored name brand suit, Skin Divers Rolex, "friends" hauling the cooler & umbrellas & all the "necessities",, but generally, the beach is a pretty level playing field socially,, with regard to Social Status Badges,, at least the ones that can be bought, So, Now, the less muscular guy is on the lower "social Class" at the beach, BUT, so far, he at least has his Drawz! Now, I gotta admit, I would have been intimidated when I was in my prime. I am a liteweight, I was a roughneck, could swing a hammer & do the job when I weighed 120, I built to 130/135 over the next 5 years, riding a bicycle, thighs were 28 inches, waist was 30, leg press 600 pounds easy enough ( that was all the machine had, so I dont know what max was), neck was big enough that I couldnt stand to button a shirt, the muscles in my arms filled the sleeves tight if I just scratched my nose &, I was given sufficient "Junk" to not be at all ashamed,,okay? BUT,,even with all that goin for me, I Still just couldnt do it. I had the chance, there was a place in Austin called Hippy Hollow where clothing was optional,, a friend & I went, but we stayed dressed &, we didnt stay long. Ahh, But I digress! The point I am so poorly ,making is, it seems to me that gettin "Nakee" just trades one set of "Social Classification Badges", the ones that can be bought at the mall, for another set, the ones we are born with & develop either at the gym or just thru an active lifestyle, or,, OR, at the What Uh burger & Malt Shoppe'. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Serowbot on 10/20/12 at 09:23:13 Some of these things,.. I just can't understand.. or, let's say, I don't get the appeal... Like texting... people frantically typing away, on itsy-bitsy keyboards to communicate,... on a phone?... "Hey stupid,.. you're holding a phone"... "Talk"... It's kinda' like having a motorcycle and pushing around instead of riding it... "Hey stupid,... it has a motor"... "Ride"... :-?... ... and these i-pads,... Great,... just add an accessory to hold it upright, and a keyboard, and a mouse device, and a hard drive,... and yippie!... now you can use it to imitate a $200 netbook (which already has a stand, keyboard, touchpad, and hard drive built-in, is just a portable, and cost less than half... Battery operated car keys... gotta' love that idea... :-?... In-dash car stereos,.. with remote controls... :-?... Next?... how 'bout an electric, remote controlled, pencil?... :-/... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by 360k+ on 10/20/12 at 09:50:24 I know what you're saying JOG, but in a way you're kinda making my point. Nudism isn't really sexual at all, or about comparing your natural assets against others, or anything like that. In fact, it's almost the opposite because that ego baggage is cast off along with the clothing. For me, I felt freedom and "oneness" with others in a way that I hadn't experienced before. It's hard to explain, but it was like flipping a switch. I previously thot nudists were kinda strange people like... "why do these people want to run around naked?". Once I joined the experience, I realized a person's psychological need for clothing and the subsequent inhibitions generated were actually the strange part. At the extremes, clothing becomes a costume that is worn in an attempt to define (or redefine) character. Look at all the Harley guys who put on their "bad biker" clothes when they ride on weekends - LOL. Going to that beach that day forced my own hangups to surface, and overcoming them was gratifying. Now that's just me, but I have talked to lots of nudists and their experience is similar. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 16:50:09 Well,, one thing I hafta agree with,, nudity IS natural,, Heck,, Ill bet most of us were Born naked,,&, IIRC,, theres an old story about some folks who Lived naked for a while,, then, they messed up & became aware of themselves & Felt naked & covered up.. Maybe they shoulda just gone skinny dippin,, |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Serowbot on 10/20/12 at 18:22:22 5E4147405D5A6B5B6B53414D06340 wrote:
Pretty sure I was born full ATGATT... ...may be why I'm an only child... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 18:37:37 I knew there would be at least one exception,, Maaan I hope you had a tiny helmet on,, I wonder if Leno was an ATTGATT baby? Nightmare,, either way.. A bowling ball with a plow on it,, |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/20/12 at 19:18:13 Man talk about a topic change, go from ARM processors to nudists :-? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Serowbot on 10/20/12 at 22:28:50 What?.... you're not following the natural progression?... :-?... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/20/12 at 23:02:52 They are just adjusting to "massive change", by changing the subject .... I just watched "How It is Made" the Science Channel's program on how desktop PCs are made. It was sorta sad, watching the sheet metal case get stuffed with all those components and cables that now-a-days are part of the SOC chip itself. It jest doesn't happen like that any more .... I watch that show and I see how much of stuff has radically changed since I was a kid -- hey, like all of it just about. Hell, it has changed a good bit since I drew a full paycheck just a few years ago .... Robotic assembly puts everything together now instead of paced assembly lines. I remember the very first robotic plant I toured with ASQ - it was the Honda lawnmower plant here in NC. It was REALLY RADICAL at the time and I struck me that only one company built all the production equipment (Honda Production Development Corporation). There was only one manual operation in the whole place and that was repair hand sanding a die crack (made a flash line) in the lawmower deck with rotary finishing sanders (die had cracked and the new die was being made in Japan). And darned if a Japanese guy wasn't working on programming a 3 axis robotic arm to do that rework sanding operation ..... Now the Japanese source the assembly of their bikes offshore in the same fashion, all the robotics and stuff are done at home and then shipped over to the country where the stuff is being "assembled cheap". That's gonna be us in a few years after our dollar crashes ---- cheap labor. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by 360k+ on 10/21/12 at 10:05:35 64474F4D4E47474E592B0 wrote:
Yep, we'll be China's labor pool working for minimum wage. And with our totally incompetent greed driven congress, I don't see much chance of derailing that train. However, lets not open that box. I've already dragged an elephant into the swimming pool in this thread, let me not digress further by adding a hippo to the pool party - LOL. Getting back to computer technology, there is one thing I did want to comment on tho... JOG, you mentioned that in some ways you felt you had missed the train when it came to computers. I've had so many people over the years share that same feeling with me. Let me just say that the abstract systems we have today are convenient and sophisticated, but not all that exciting. Each year, we build faster, better, bigger (actually smaller) versions of the same thing we built the prior year. They do word processing, spreadsheets, games, email, blah blah blah... Granted, these tasks get work done that would otherwise be dull, boring, and redundant for humans, but are hardly what you call exciting. My epiphany came in the mid 70's when I soldered a CPU, a RAM, and 3 or 4 misc chips together on a prototype PC board along with some switches and LEDs. I then set about designing a "program" to get the chips to do something. The process was so intriguing/exciting/fun that I literally couldn't sleep at night. Bleary eyed, days later I emerged with a sequence of instructions (a program) that would light the LEDs in a sequential predictable way. The sense of accomplishment was off the chart, because I had conquered these devices, and in the process, learned how computers work at the "atomic level". Today, some 40 years later and after a career in the industry, I've had very few computer related experiences matching that one that took place so long ago. Actually being able to communicate directly with those chips in a language (binary), even today, is still exciting. An analogy might be the difference between an old bi-plane barnstormer who flew a Sopwith Camel and made all his own repairs, and a modern 767 pilot who knows little about how the computers, instrumentation, or engines work, and is reduced to a cause-n-effect button pusher. I mention all this because I feel that many the folks here on the forum are cut from my same cloth. I see this by their ingenuity and ability to solve problems and implement ideas. I'm sure they would be just as intrigued as I was if they had the same chance to experiment and experience the rewarding sense of accomplishment. Even today, I have several "single board computers" involving those same LEDs and switches, and they are still just as fun as they were back then. So in one sense, you're right, the big train has left the station, but the little push/pull handcart is still there waiting to be enjoyed. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/21/12 at 11:19:29 First, watch this short film and pay attention to the voice requests made and the matching voice response you get back ..... this isn't new but it is picking up sooooo much polish now days. Same voice system lets you "talk" your posts on to forums like this. Here is the review: http://www.gsmarena.com/asus_google_nexus_7-review-797p4.php Here is the video: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4C9EHJBg2k[/media] Now, I hinted that Apple may try to stick a finger in Google's eye and price the soon to be announced IPad Mini at $198.99 just to cut out Google's foray into "their" closed premium tablet world. Rumor is that Google is giggling behind their hand -- they have a Nexus 7 mini-me all lined up to pop out into the Christmas season at a $99.99 price point if Apple does decide to poke them in the eye at the 198.99 price point. And that leaves us with Microsoft's brand new $600 surface tablet that isn't really for sale yet that doesn't have voice control anything yet as it really isn't completely real yet (but it will use an Intel processor when it becomes real). :-/ And Microsoft so did want to come out there with a splash and be competitive in the tablet and phone worlds, too ..... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Serowbot on 10/21/12 at 12:17:51 "Open the pod bay door, Hal".... :-?... About 15 years ago,.. my boss got a new Nissan,.. and she asked me to move it so we could unload some equipment in that space... So, I get in,.. and while I'm tryin' to figure out how the seat adjusts, because she's only about 5-2",... it does this auto seat belt thing, and a voice comes from the backseat saying " the door,... is ajar..."... The hair on the back of neck stood straight up, and I nearly strangled myself trying to escape the car with the seat belt around my neck... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/21/12 at 12:38:57 "I'm sorry Dave, but mission override parameters indicate I cannot take the time to let you back into the ship. It would take 10 minutes to evacuate the pod bay airlock at this point and 5 additional minutes to cycle you back inside. I am sorry, Dave but we must carry on and complete the primary override mission at this point in time with no further delays being permitted. Ship will accelerate in T minus 3minutes, 12 seconds and counting ...." And back in year 2001 the HAL 2000 was completely out of date too --- he took up an entire ROOM and he had about 20 shiny lighted memory logic modules as that were as big as your forearm (Dave pulled all 20 of them out one at a time while HAL 2000 begged him to Stop .... please stop, Dave.) HAL 3000 today in 2013's dual core A-15 big-LITTLE would fit in the palm of your hand in year 2013, complete with everything. His memory logic modules (all 24 of them) would fit on your little fingernail. And he would be powered by a cell phone charger or a small battery. And so would his big brother, the new year 2014 HAL 4000, which would have at least 4 A-15 big-LITTLE pair ups with a total of 48 memory logic modules. This is just one big-LITTLE pair showing the logic modules. They will come in 2x increment pair sets, 2x, 4x, 6x and 8x depending on if it is cheap phone, good phone, tablet, laptop or desktop. Don't forget to count in the Mali 678 graphics section of the SOC as well, it has up to 8 additional cores in it as well, with each core holding an additional 8 logic modules. So for a full blown 2015 year model HAL 6000 desktop replacement, that would be over 200 logic modules (at 14 nano meter size) for poor 'ol Dave to have to pull one at a time with his itty bitty tweezers. ;D This is just one pair up, they will come in 2x, 4x, 6x and 8x with the 28 nm to 14nm manufacturing "tock" shift taking place in the middle of the progression. And it will all run off a cell phone charger for a power supply (or a small battery). And they will always fit on your fingernail, too. http://1.androidauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ARMbig.Little.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by 360k+ on 10/21/12 at 19:23:07 2731263B23363B20540 wrote:
When we bought my wife's new Buick a while back, we decided to celebrate by driving to the local Indian casino for a slab of prime rib and some fun. About 15 miles from home a voice suddenly appears, "Hi Mrs Phillips, my name is Ben Jones, and I was wondering how you like your new Buick so far?" Startled, we didn't know what to do, then continuing... "I'm calling from Atlanta, and have already ran a complete diagnostic check on your car. Everything looks fine except your left rear tire is showing slightly low air pressure. You may want to check that at your next opportunity. Please respond using your Northstar satellite phone, by pushing the talk button on your steering wheel". |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/22/12 at 05:55:03 Intel just got the bad news that Apple doesn't want their chips any more for their 2013 laptop production schedule (Intel got the bad news just about 2 weeks ago). http://gigaom.com/2011/09/13/microsoft-intel-chart-separate-paths-in-the-post-pc-era/ Intel is now looking around for something to make for somebody so they can stay in business in 2-3 of their manufacturing facilities that Apple might be idling down soon. (Apple sells a lot of laptops, a whole lot of them) Google may have asked Intel if they could make a quad core a-15 a-7 big-LITTLE ARM chip on their 22 nanometer manufacturing process. Google and Intel get along well together as they don't compete for the same turf. Apple may have indicated an interest in buying an idled fab plant or two from Intel outright. Get a load of this -- Amazon may have approached Intel with the same sorts of questions as Amazon is suffering from chip supply lacks right now too. Amazon gets along good with Intel as they are just a new customer and they don't build any chips (yet anyway). Hey, wake up Intel -- you need to get into bed quick with somebody that is selling something this Christmas (and going on into next year). That likely isn't your old buddy Microsoft .... as awkward $600 tablets with no software don't seem to be where it is at right now. Intel used to rule the roost but has since fallen off the nesting stand on their new phone chip designs. Their core manufacturing processes don't suck though, they have good 22 nanometer lithography levels and they get good yields on what they do make (the chip designs just aren't right though for the phone and tablet driven world and their costs are too high on what they are trying to sell of their own stuff right now). AMD did a classic "if you can't beat them, join them" with ARM about six months ago, AMD uses nimble & efficient ARM cores inside some of their own chips now, especially for background tasks like ongoing software and download "VeriSign" verifications. Can Intel get past their pride to do the same "if you can't beat them, join them" trick before they go deeper down the toilet? Answer right now seems to be both Intel and Microsoft still apparently have too much money in the bank to get past their collective corporate pride --- both have another "fumble about" left in them before having to get realistic about what the future is really going to be like. Intel has no lasting excuse however -- they already license the ARM designs and could be in quad core A-15 big-LITTLE production quickly if they should so choose. And it isn't like Amazon, Barnes & Noble and Google don't need the chips for their next year's Christmas rush ..... (Currently there is a global shortage in 28 and less nanometer chip lithography plants and it takes 2-3 years to build a new one -- and a measly 8.5 billion dollars to invest in that plant to build it) Intel could certainly have a future as a CONTRACT FAB manufacturer for the new 64 bit ARM stuff, and sell all its excess production capacity ongoing as their own Intel chip designs become less demanded. And this is using their existing "old" plants, ones that they would be scrapping soon anyway. They would still have to get past their price fixations though, as ARM chips cost a lot less to produce and they are priced accordingly. Intel is very good with their manufacturing side, they could sell that old 22 nanometer lithography expertise until they finally get their designs straightened out and working correctly for the global brave new world. And Intel could continue that progress into the future as they do have a 12 nanometer process in pre-production right now that could build anybody's future design very efficiently. This would also give Intel some experience doing what they couldn't / wouldn't do on their own -- do the much simpler quicker lower energy consuming RISC style chips instead of doing all that triple gate whoopie huge complexity x86 stuff that Microsoft had them doing. And then only Microsoft would be left to be taking the long trip to obscurity with their $600 tablets ..... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/22/12 at 06:47:03 Yeah, watching the computer industry has been a hobby of mine for over 30 years, it is like watching a hand grenade explode in super slow motion sometimes with all the frenetic moves and changes. I've watched them give birth to themselves and grow up with explosive force, mature and expand into behemoths worth more than most small countries and now I am watching their post peak moves as they become old and decline and deal with their upcoming replacements. Intel, I hope Intel survives as they have competed fairly all along, sometimes they were not on top but they were always making as good product as their big customer bosses would let them (sometimes having Microsoft for a boss wasn't that easy, when Apple began to run the show at Intel as "major customer" they weren't all that easy to deal with either). Computers started out as American as apple pie, but has turned into an international business based out of the orient with some of the current design expertise coming from Great Britain. When the orientals start designing the chips themselves, well, then its all over but the shouting. This will come eventually, but it will be a fundamental shift in all computing paradigms that will be partially driven by the unique needs of Chinese computing. Right now the average oriental has very small computing needs and a fancy cell phone really does do all that they need, especially considering that land line data systems (phone, cable, etc.) were never put in place in his country -- they industrialized just recently in the age of cell phones and he has no personal need for a PC so it is all wireless to them or nothing. Android is all an average oriental person needs, and it is what he learned and it is what he likes. His XP is his Android 2.1 on his simpler smart phone and the majority of his native software are STILL being written for that simpler level of hardware/software. Android itself is being cloned in China by the phone companies and Google is struggling to keep control of their software direction in that huge and growing marketplace. US Government has concerns with these Chinese chipped, Chinese softwared products -- electronic spying has been going on for some time and these "built totally in China" products are showing up on NSA's radar as broadly distributed leakage sources. Example is Huawei, a Chinese company that 1) makes its own chips 2) runs its own networks 3) has its own home grown Android flavor 4) has been making phones for the US marketplace that have been leaking a steady stream of data back to China (sorta like Google does). Justin will be interested in the conspiracy aspects of this situation which are contained in the last link in this reference (and the follow on links in those links). http://liliputing.com/2012/10/huawei-ascent-mate-phonetablet-with-6-1-inch-screen-on-the-way.html Google and Microsoft taught the Chinese how to do it -- are you surprised that they are not learning their lessons well enough? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/22/12 at 07:15:53 Justin will be interested in the conspiracy aspects of this situation which are contained in the last link in this reference (and the follow on links in those links). Ohh, no, not me, thanks. I have a full plate watching our goobs. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/22/12 at 09:39:12 Yeah, but what 'cha gonna do for a hobby in like two weeks? ASSuMEing we don't have a protested run off election in Ohio or Florida that is .... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/22/12 at 12:42:59 And the big dogs bark for More Chips !! More Chips !! And Intel's phone rings yet again with folks who won't buy their designs but would buy the output from their 22 nm lithography processes to build their backlog of ARM chips ..... Will Intel try to leverage this into the sale of more of their own chip designs even if they are not as good? Would anybody take them up on this offer? Will they get realistic and quietly make a few large runs of ARM Cortex big-LITTLE A-15/A-7 chips for the big dogs to buy them some year's worth of time and considerable goodwill? Will the boys who need the chips right now kick in some money to buy the needed production space as co-owners? http://www.extremetech.com/computing/130937-tsmc-still-struggling-with-28nm-qualcomm-and-nvidia-threaten-to-jump-ship Me, I betcha you see the simpler 4 and 6 core A-7 chipsets flood into the market (with no mating A-15s) as the yields on the simpler smaller chip are near 100% and you can get SOOOOO SOOOOO many more of them on a wafer. Crowd 4-6 on a standard sized chip base and you can get near super duper performance with multiples of the simpler high yield chips. And the irony is this sips less power, so your batteries last longer to boot. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Cavi Mike on 10/22/12 at 13:24:21 Intel made their money off of Apple, I'm surprised they're even threatened by any of this. Like Intel is going to restructure their entire business for one single customer that has no problem threatening to drop them like a hot potato. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/22/12 at 15:45:45 Cavi Mike, Apple has been the largest single user of Intel chipsets ever since HP began to tank 2 years ago. Most of that was going into the Apple laptops since Apple makes a whole lot more laptops than they do desktops. Apple was using their home produced modified ARM chipsets (currently A-15s) to put out the IPad 1, 2 & 3 and the IPhone 1-5. Apple buys extra ARM production capacity from the major foundries as needed to augment their own production, but they never give the foundries their newest, latest and best stuff -- it is kept secret in house. These same Apple designed A-15 cores when moved to a quad core set up have plenty of oomph to run a laptop -- and low and behold just last week or so Apple gave Intel their final decision, no Intel laptop chips for 2013. 2014 will be make or break for Intel's lighter faster cheaper chip designs that they are still struggling to deliver -- either they come up with some real winners at a decent price point or ARM will roll them under with the v8 64 bit ARM chip designs which will start shipping in 2015. Note please, none of this is saying anything bad about Intel's I-5 or I-7 processors performance wise. But if you can string together 4-6 of ARMs 64 bit cores on a processor block to get equivalent performance at half the cost and run it off a phone charger for a power supply, who isn't going to go with that? ARM 64 chipsets will run all the old Windows mainline softwares in emulator mode (except where Microsoft throws up a roadblock intentionally). See Reactos in your search engine, it will be cooked by then, especially if Apple sees an advantage to them and pushes it. BTW, Apple's current software can open and save an EXCEL or WORD file just fine already, Apple isn't going to be affected much by Microsoft's road blocking antics at this stage of the game. Hell, you can buy Microsoft Office for Apple OS if you really must have Office. ARM v8 64 bit will also run all old Android apps and all Linux softwares in natural 64 bit mode. Really, the orient LIKES Android's native language word processor and spreadsheet apps just fine, they should like them, they wrote them. 2014-15 will be interesting, to say the least. Some stuff is going to shake out between now and then. =========== Now, if Google or Amazon wanted Intel to run them up a bunch of ARM big-LITTLE chipsets during a mutual production crunch period in 2013 (which next year will be, BTW) while Intel had them some idle fab capacity, what skin would that be off Intel's nose? Intel is already an ARM licensee (full design & fab license as a matter of fact). Intel isn't hacked off at Google nor are they mad at Amazon or at Barnes and Noble. To them, these guys are just new repeat customers. Paying customers who want something the old plant equipment (planned to be scrapped soon) can supply easily. Apple was the one that did Intel wrong (after a whole year of telling them every month to please make smaller faster cheaper chipsets). But Apple now has their own ARM fab plants and now depends only on Apple now for all their own mobile and laptop chipsets (except for desktop PC versions which still use Intel for at least another year). The plan is now for Apple to make those desktop chipsets in 2014 as well using the 64 bit ARM designs that they already are in pre-production proof out on right now. On their own equipment. 64 bit ARM chips. Remember, Apple gets the new ARM designs a full year ahead of everybody else (and they pay extra for that privilege). What they get out of that is a year's jump on the competition which is why the new Apple stuff is so durn neat when it comes out fresh, but it then becomes pretty much so-so in a year's time. Think of Apple as the leading indicator or bellwether of the computer industry. Apple specializes in NEAT and NEW and BEST of CLASS. Where Apple goes is generally where the rest tend to go inside the next 2 years. Watch ol' Apple uncork some very powerful new very thin very light products with 64 bit Apple chipsets in them, coming to an Apple store near you in 2013-14. CAN INTEL POP A TECH RABBIT OUT OF THEIR HAT and change these equations? Not working with Microsoft, who thinks a $600 tablet that you can't give voice instructions and get a voice response back from is all totally "state of the art" (when you can get voice communications both ways out of a $199 Google Nexus 7 tablet right now). Heck, I hope Intel survives and prospers, I like Intel OK and want American companies to remain in business as long as they can innovate and progress to stay at the head of the pack. To do this Intel is going to have to wean their way away from Microsoft and quit following them into marketing folly after folly. But when our government's over regulation and increasing taxes finally makes that impossible, then I will sigh sadly and roll on over to using whatever is going to be around when the dust settles. :D Me, hey I HOPEie things CHANGE in a few weeks to give 'ol Intel a better future. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/23/12 at 15:40:13 Apple "Announcement" day Hey all you Apple fiends who just plunked down $600 for those new Ipad3 retina displays tablets that had that new girl Siri talking back to you when you asked her questions ...... April Fools !!! That is now our new low range IPAD that goes for $379 rebuilt and here is the BRAND NEW IPAD 3S ($600) AND NEW IPAD MINI ($329). http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1832da3m69gqypng/xlarge.png TWICE as powerful as the Ipad Retina with TWICE as good graphics display. The little Ipad mini guy he isn't so hot, he's just Ipad 2 level (Amazon level) but the new Main Ipad Boy he is flat KICK'n up them new records (in all sections) totally in the butt. Microsoft's new Surface stuff (that doesn't even talk to you) is like 4 generations behind us now and they STILL haven't shipped any yet .... :D We are APPLE !!! We own ALL the new technology for at least a full year before anyone else can get even get a good sniff at it. And all you magazine article pundits, you don't even have a single clue what is really in our little square silicon block because we won't tell you and neither will ARM except it isn't anything you even know about yet. IT IS A SECRET !!! It is all to be kept under tight non-disclosure for one full year from today (when we roll out our next "double it all" special tech treat that we are in prototype production on right now in our very own top secret fab plants). ARM v8 isn't fiction boys and girls and it belongs to APPLE !!! All Bow Down to the Shade of Steve Jobs and kiss his sandal straps .... http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/70/00/006245/23-10-2012-19-21-04.jpg Remember, WE ARE APPLE AND "TWICE AS GOOD AT THE SAME PRICE" HAPPENS YEARLY JUST ABOUT THIS SAME BAT TIME AND BAT CHANNEL (as long as ARM keeps on coming out with them 2x innovations like they have been for the last few years) (and if you are good little APPLE fiends, we'll let you buy a new laptop in a few months that busts all the laptop records like this new IPAD just did for tablets) :D |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/23/12 at 16:09:38 For now I'll stick with my good reliable AMD processors until ARM architecture proves out to be just as powerful as the current desktop 64bit processors out there. I am definitely impressed by what those little ARM processors are doing but they just can't keep up yet when it comes to raw processing power. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/23/12 at 18:14:07 What will signal that level of competence? ARM chips have already overtaken the Duron/Centrino/Atom class of chips, the new A6x from Apple are knocking around about the Athelon levels now as far as what they can do and how fast they can do it. Remember these are 32 bit chipsets because their operating world is RISC (reduced instruction set computing) and that stuff runs very quickly & efficiently executing fast simple 32 bit instructions. Increasing the chip I/O to 64 bit isn't going to do anything immediately for Android or Linux related software as most of that is 32 bit structure right now and that isn't going to change unless there is some advantage to changing it. The first 64 bit ARM chips are LIKELY to be not much faster than the last generation of 32 bit ARM chips, simply because the code they execute isn't going to be much of anything different. Unless you cheat a bit and multi-thread two simultaneous 32 bit instructions on your 64 bit ARM chip, effectively doubling your core count and execution speed per core. Your double core effectively becomes quadcore and your quad core effectively becomes octicore. Linux took like 3-5 years to get a mass of 64 bit software written, and it is still commented that the old 32 bit software will still run on an old 32 bit machine just about as fast as the new 64 bit version runs on a new machine. Case in point -- I have an old XP machine that will execute Office 97 software (this was the last 32 bit operating system and last 32 bit Office, BTW) just as fast as a 10 year younger dual core 64 bit Win7 machine will execute Office 2007. Faster, actually if you compare Explorer 7 on the old machine to Explorer 9 on the new one ..... (yeah, Microsoft and Intel examples of software bloat, I know) Software bloat in 64 bit land is real and it does eat up all that extra faster memory and processor cycles. And the work doesn't get done all that much faster accordingly. ======== Hey, how ARE you going to judge when the ARM stuff is "good enough"? When Apple and Android can do stuff on ARM that Microsoft can't even when run on the latest greatest Intel processor with a just released this week operating system? ::) (watch out, that question is loaded .......) |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/23/12 at 19:01:25 I do alot of custom android coding and compiling from scratch, granted that doesn't need the 64bit arch but it does need the raw power to do that in a decent time frame. When the arm set can match or exceed my current setup in compile time from scratch of 15 to 20 mins for the JellyBean branch I will consider then making my development machine with a Arm powered setup. Also I do alot of video transcoding that does benefit from the 64bit arch and ARM arch does not even compare there yet in what it takes to transcode video in a reasonable time frame there. Currently with my 8 core setup I can transcode 1080p video at a rate of 80 to 90 fps and this is just using the CPU as I don't like the quality of the conversions when using Cuda to do the conversion process even though it's quicker. Now I will agree for a normal Desktop environment that the ARM arch can and will do the job perfectly well and at a much less impact on power then current desktop processors out there in the market. I may even consider them for replacing my many HTPC's with ARM setups running a Linux variant once they are available to the mass public in a non-apple application. I may even consider replacing my server with an ARM based solution as it's mainly turned into more of a NAS/Firewall type of server instead of a full blown central login server as well. That is assuming they come out with drivers that will work with the hardware raid cards that I prefer to use for my large storage arrays. But as I said in the previous post I am most intrigued by the developments in the ARM arch chip-sets and have been following them with great intrest and see great potential in them in the coming future, just not enough for me to replace my main development stations at this time or the next year or 2, unless something really changes that I have not seen yet. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/23/12 at 19:33:47 I love that answer !!! It was an ANSWER !!!! Yup, and CAD guys will probably look to find their favorite flavor of CAD to be able to run on the year 2015 Whatzit at least half again faster than their old stuff. I'm easy, Athelon 64 at 1.2 gigahertz (clocked down by HP to 1.0 gigahertz output for cooling and reliability reasons). I can go double the speed of what I got fairly easily fairly soon for about $100 invested, so I am "roll, roll, roll in ze hay" with Terri Garr for all my future computing needs .... run it on a small phone charger or off a powered USB hub for a power supply. :D [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqClWdOcWog[/media] |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/12 at 23:37:33 http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138268-amd-throws-15-of-its-workforce-off-the-sinking-ship Aw shite -- I didn't want to read this, but I guess it is a logical progression. AMD is taking the "if you can't beat them, join them" pathway, but their tech isn't good enough to go where the ARM chips are going nanometer-wise but for one (1) more year. I am sorry to hear about AMD's potential demise inside the next 2 years. :( |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/25/12 at 00:27:51 55767E7C7F76767F681A0 wrote:
That is something I definitely didn't want to hear right now. I despise Intel as their pricing structure is way to high for what you get. With what I do my AMD counterparts consistently out perform the I7 chips by a good margin. I'm not much of a gamer which is where the I7 chips really shine over the AMD's in performance compared to the AMD FX line. If I could afford it I would have already gotten a quad socket G34 board loaded with the AMD 16 core chips for my development and trans-coding machine but alas I'm not made of money nor do I have one of those money trees growing in my yard :'( |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/25/12 at 20:15:20 Intel does have some right uppity ideas about their newest chips (sold at $999.99 price point for each & every one to the very first super users as "braggin' rights" items) So what if it takes 4-8 of the latest/greatest 64 bit ARM processors to get the same user performance that the huge water cooled Intel power sucker can do -- you just design a board that has 4-8 little bitty ball solder sockets on it and pop them on there and hit the wave solder tank at a cost of $17.95 for each processor. Hells bells, each little 64 bit ARM processor will be smaller than the old memory chips on the old memory cards we used to use ..... Hey, you could have a replaceable/upgradable CPU card ..... easy cheap upgrades for your motherboard !!!! Don't laugh, somebody beat me to it already. Here is one with two (2) little bitty ball solder sockets on it. They ain't 64 bit yet, but the size isn't going to change all that much as they will be sub 20 nanometer when they come out in 64 bit and these are oldstyle 32 bit huge 65 nanometer chipsets. NOTE: NO FAN(s) .... NO GIANORMOUS POWER SUPPLY http://liliputing.com/2012/10/this-is-what-the-wandboard-69-freescale-i-mx6-dev-board-looks-like.html http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/wb20121024-003-900.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/29/12 at 10:05:28 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHuoDqcIyqk[/media] Google rolls out the good stuff ..... dual core A-15 with Mali 604 graphics. This is 43 nanometer lithograph stuff at 1.7 gigahertz -- it will get better in the spring with 28 nanometer lithography and 2 gigahertz processor speeds and then by next Christmas season the barn door will be open to BIG-little and the quad core stuff. Google NOW will get more advanced and the 6 inch phone/tablet will become more compelling as a "carry with you" personal assistant. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/29/12 at 10:20:28 Speaking of all these little ARM arch SOC computers, Has anyone messed with one of the Rasberry PI units and tried to make a basic HTPC unit out of one of them. I was thinking about picking up one of the B models and giving it a go, but was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them yet. At $35 per unit and it running Linux I can see that little thing being perfect for an xmbc type media center or something similar pulling the vids and such from my network storage share. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/29/12 at 10:48:22 They recently upgraded the Raspberry Pi by doubling the systems memory to 512 and overclocking the processor to 1 gigahertz and coming out with drivers to allow using the GPU as a processing resource with full floating point "hard float". Net result is it doesn't molasses on you so much any more. It is still SLOW when compared to modern phones and tablets as it is ARMv7 instead of ARMv8 (which is the oldest arm that say Ubuntu supports). Buy a Pi and Raspian is all you will ever get for a Linux (Debian with Raspberry Pi customizations). However the huge fan base and many customizations make the device a good trick for a media center. The processor is the exact same processor used in the Roku lite box, so it can get the job done, but not killing fast. Raspian Linux is pretty much cooked now and it will get ongoing support and customization. The folks at RasberryPi will not talk about future models (tends to kill off the current model if you do that) but there are a world of dual core $4-$7 processors out there that make the $3 processor they are using now look like a stone slug. They are also NOT INTERESTED in latest/greatest at all, but want a stable system to allow schools to buy into it for a period of some years at a very low purchase price. They would add a feature or drop the price rather than modernize the base chipset. Here is a better unit at the same price, with somewhat similar Linux support. (don't forget you have to buy a base OS SD card and a power supply and the cables with the Raspberry Pi and all that stuff comes with this bad boy) http://www.ebay.com/itm/MK802-Android-4-0-TV-BOX-Allwinner-1-5GHZ-A10-1GB-DDR3-4GB-Mini-PC-Stick-/170926696479?pt=US_Internet_Media_Streamers&hash=item27cc06681f Just be aware that these sticks tend to change and modernize as soon as a Chinese chip maker puts out a better chip and also be aware that not all Chinese chips have any sort of Linux support from their vendors. The MK 802 does have a lot of support though as they all use Allwinner's A10 chipset and Miniand forums hold all the needed Linux support for that chipset you can get. https://www.miniand.com/ gotta like that hackberry board for all the extras like wifi and cat5 and such Raspberry Pi has more support right now and better software and more programming stuff for it though by a factor of 10. This will change soon when Linux kernel 3.77 comes out, then Linaro will have built-in support for all the new ARM chipsets and their Mali graphics systems baked right into the Linux kernel. Supported from the get go, native. The Pi won't have this as it falls well before the v8 cut off as a "modern system". Next year the Pi falls back into Linux obscurity so to speak. The new ARM stuff will have a world of OS systems available to it, including that semi-aborted Windows 8 RT garbage. And remember, all the neat new Nexus products from Google have the new A-15 super chip in them and the new Mali 604 graphics, and you can put Ubuntu and Chrome OS on them as we speak. Notice also that the new Android is pretty neat and is shaping up as a real keeper as a consumption tool. Dual booting your tablet with a full Linux OS is here now too, so you can have the best of both worlds if you want it. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/29/12 at 14:29:14 Thanks for the recommendation OldFeller. Both the stick version and the Hackberry look very interesting. Might just have to pick me up one of each and see how I like them. Yes I'm well aware of Android O.S. I do alot of building on that one for my phones and also now on a Nexus 7 tablet that I recently acquired. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/31/12 at 14:48:10 Figures, I finally get the money into my account and they are out of stock on the Hackberry units :'( |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/31/12 at 15:24:12 http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/14/new-intel-chip-wont-support-linux/ Intel has upped it's game, so now both Microsoft and Intel have drawn their respective lines in the sand. x86 (Microsoft) or NOTHING. Remember, Android is Linux and Apple is Unix/BSD so neither will likely be supported by a chip that won't support Linux. The ECU will be the first challenge court that the open source people will use to bust Intel's balls over this potential anti-trust litigation. Microsoft isn't stupid enough to do this, so why is Intel stepping out into the mine field ??? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 10/31/12 at 15:36:40 I never understood how Intel has survived as long as it has with their over pricing but going so far to now not support anything but MicroSuck, they might as well close up shop. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/31/12 at 16:14:45 Clover Trail hasn't proven to be any form of ARM killer chip set, so why does Intel think this is a good position to take? Mebbe they want to take the stance now when there IS no threat to anyone on a fairly sucky chip, that way when they uncork the killer diller chipset the precedent is set already. I guess it doesn't cost them anything to take this stance as nobody is using Intel chips for new Android or new Linux anything lately. Why spend the time and money to put out anything support-wise? And Apple just threw Intel to the curbside, so there isn't any conflict there either. So, why not? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 3 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 10/31/12 at 16:47:53 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-25/amd-faces-looming-cash-crunch-amid-quest-for-new-markets-tech.html Bloomberg is kinda doubtful that new revenue streams are going to arrive before the mid winter wolves come a calling ..... (notice: expect a bargain basement sale this mid-winter to avoid foreclosure) Expect AMD x86 motherboards to get REALLY REALLY cheap pretty soon. AMD has stocks on hand of "good" chips that are not selling, so to move them they will have to discount them considerably, soon. :o :( :o |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/01/12 at 16:25:06 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm9o-IOp0L4[/media] Here is your first $250 laptop running a dual core A-15 Samsung chipset (the list price is $250, not a discounted price on Ebay) Don't get too hyped that it is a Chromebook, Fedora and Ubuntu have already been running on the thing as it has a "bootable" SD card slot. It isn't a 10" netbook, it is an 11.6 inch super thin laptop that is lighter than the old netbooks used to be as the A-15 ARM chips need NO FAN and the battery can be smaller while actually lasting longer. The same machine running Wintel costs over $100 more money. And, as you can see it moves pretty durn quick even while running emulators and multiple multiple overlaid windows. The reviewer says that the performance is scarcely noticably different from the more expensive Wintel version of the same machine. Remember, this is just the dual core A-15 Samsung Exnos chip, what Apple is going to be using is the half again more powerful quad core A-15 (Apple A8?) that they have been customizing for their lighter laptops and IPads -- starting out shipping early-mid next year. Then late next year for Christmas Apple will be shipping out their first 64 bit dual and quad core A-57 chipsets (Apple modified version of course) which will be one hell of a Intel killer of a chipset. Obviously, the A-15 can run Linux, OS-x Apple, Microsoft RT and by using Wine and the various emulators it can run Office and other various "mission critical legacy" softwares using your favorite Linux as the base layer. The orientals will do this same sort of thing with the chip except they will likely chose to run their favorite native language OS (Android). As long as they make the SD cards bootable, you will be able to pick up a laptop for $200 or slightly less and run whatever you want (that isn't MS that is). Reactos/Wine is the wild card that could totally crumple up MS with all this new hardware coming out --- look for MS to start suing everybody in fluent rented Russian as soon as Reactos goes beta, seeking US import bans, etc. This will likely not work out for them very well as the Russian government "supports" the project as a home written, FOSS (Wine) based program. Plus, if Microsoft were successful in Russian courts, then the project would simply "move" to mirrors in another country that MS can't sue in (can you say China? Iran? North Korea? North Vietnam?). ::) http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Pine on 11/02/12 at 09:50:34 Wow.. I have read this entire thread... it took nearly and hour. I have been and AMD fan since my first K6, in fact othr than my Atom in my netbook ( running XP) I have only run AMD. Currently, I have a great curio that cant now be bought... the Phenom II x4 980 BE @ 3.7GHz. And yes I use it for gaming. I knew AMD was messing up, and I knew it must be looking bad for them... I just didnt know how bad. I do think that at some point the cycle will turn yet again and desktops will have a place... but I am not sure that AMD.. or even Intel will last long enough to see it. PC gaming has taken some huge hits.. putting gaming over to consoles. Desktops are really dying, which is sad to me, who is gonna run the SETI apps???? I dont think I would miss MS Windows at home though. But dont count me as an Apple/Mac fan at all. Lunchtime... laters |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/02/12 at 10:17:40 http://media.t3.com/img/resized/ou/xl_OUYA_console_front_624.jpg For you, the $99 Ouya Android gamer system, open source, ARM based. http://www.t3.com/features/ouya-specs It will ship with the current Tegra 3 chips but will be upgraded this year to the A-15 level chips as soon as the Kickstarter group gets what they contracted for and already paid for (they provided the $8 million in front money after all). |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Trippah on 11/02/12 at 16:19:49 Wasn;t he talking about his girl friend twisting his ARM? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/04/12 at 01:15:46 Hey OldFeller, Miniand just released a limited edition version of the Hackberry board with 8gb of NAND flash on-board on the 1gb ram models. They sent me an email last night to let me know about it and I've got 2 of them on the way. Now I just gotta get them working properly as the media center boxes like I'm wanting to and working from a shared folder on the network, plus some sort of remote for each preferably by x-mas as these are intended as gifts for my kids so they can get the movies off the home network on the TV's in their rooms now, instead of just being able to networked movies in the living room. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/04/12 at 04:19:30 It ain't his ARM ..... "Yes baby, I'll get you the little $99 game machine !!!! Please quit twisting !!! ouya ....ouya.... ouya !!!! No squeezing them either !!! (yeah, I know -- girls have their ways of getting what they want without having to be twisting or squeezing on anything valuable to them) ============== Hackberry was created by the Miniand folks fairly quickly when the A10 chipset came out. When the next Linux supporting type of the latest greatest comes out the Hackberry design will likely be modded to support that chip. Issue right now is that ALL the inexpensive Linux supported chipsets come from Allwinner as Allwinner is connected closely to the FOSS people at Linaro. ARM depends on Linaro to dial in the Linux underpinnings of their various chipsets. So Allwinner winds up with a fully Linux supported chipset and Miniand winds up with all the Linux supporting distros all listed on Miniand's fairly extensive forum listings. Allwinner also likes to buy the least expensive plain vanilla ARM hard micro designs (which is a good thing because everything is pre-done correctly and the designs are prototype run on the TSCM processes by ARM before they are released). The next design that Allwinner has bought and is waiting to have built in quantity by TSCM (or some Chinese foundry if they are indeed able to do it) is the quad core A-7 hard micro variant which they will sell to every phone company in the world as a very low cost basic phone chip (that has more grunt than what the top end phones are using right now). This quad core chip will use LESS POWER than the single A10 uses now. This is in contrast to Rockchip that once they get Android 4,0 to run on their chipset they drop off the limited drivers on their customers and they say "All else, up to you." |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/05/12 at 10:07:01 The Empire Strikes Back ..... http://liliputing.com/2012/11/deals-of-the-day-11-05-2012.html Stung mightily by Google's release of the $249 Chromebook (that can run any Linux ARM distro out there off of the built in bootable SD card slot) Microsoft has struck back with an identical looking 11.6" laptop running their low cost Wintel product line. "We will annihilate them !!!! Fire the Deathstar !!" Sez Darth Surface. http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/x202e.jpg Slowly the humongus battle station swings its moon like bulk into alignment and the five beams merge out at the apex of the huge focusing mirror ..... ZAP !! ..... but nothing much happens. The $499 price point is ludicrous as it is exactly twice as much money as the Google Chrome book costs and they function about as fast as each other for all the common user consumption type uses. Heck, the Death Star can't even wound the normal $399 laptop crowd at Best Buy with that kind of evil death beam pricing. And their stuff doesn't even talk to you yet, ether so you can't even get the death screams right when Darth cries out in frustration "Die !!?? Why won't you die ??" So, true to form, Darth Surface reaches out and chokes him yet another Death Star Commander to death, venting his endless frustration by yet another internal lay off at team Wintel .... ;) |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/05/12 at 11:00:46 http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/samsung-camera.jpg Here it is, a 4G camera with a 1.4 gigahertz ARM quad core processor in it. Why? Because at the chip prices now days you might as well have a camera that shoots and then stores your pictures on your cloud storage automatically. Can you make phone calls on it? :D ..... now you are being silly, that is next year's upgrade model You can surf the web on it and type in emails and text and such like stuff though. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/05/12 at 11:15:54 73677633313132010 wrote:
Hey, that's neat. Your kids are very lucky and don't even realize it very much (fish in water and all that). Their own room, their own TV, their own net access node complete with built in storage. Hey, you wanna adopt me? ;D |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by verslagen1 on 11/05/12 at 11:22:36 ARM Aliance: Hello Alderaan? How would you like to produce chips for us? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/05/12 at 11:38:54 I feel like a little bit of Apple math .... how 'bout you? Apple peaked at 3 million new IPad this and that which were sold on the very first roll out weekend. (lining up hours early on opening day is part of the Apple mystique, don't you know?) That math's out to 4320 rpm (retail sales per minute). Gotta have us a motorcycle reference in here somewhere, now don't we? So, it took Apple all of 12 minutes to outsell an entire 72 hour opening weekend's worth of Wintel's new Surface stuff (at 50,000 total units sold). And that was with all the roll out TV advertising and pre-sold stuff that Microsoft did on their Surface line that first weekend. =========== I was going to count for you the very few seconds it took for the Google/Samsung $249 Chromebook to whup up on the 50,000 units sold from Wintel's Surface Weekend, but instead I'll have to report that inside 1 hour the $249 Google/Samsung laptop that can run anything but Windows was totally sold out through Christmas. Since the $249 Chromebook orders were all pre-punched before the sales even opened it took 3.2 picoseconds for the system to rack them all up and go "Tilt" -- product is on backorder". We guesstimate that the 50,000 unit point was crossed inside the very first of the 3.2 picoseconds. I wonder if that crazy Samsung net camera is gonna outsell the MS Surface stuff too? (did you know that the Raspberry Pi out sold the Surface stuff on Surface Weekend too? That is really really sad, isn't it?) |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Pine on 11/05/12 at 11:45:11 41626A686B62626B7C0E0 wrote:
Hey, that's neat. Your kids are very lucky and don't even realize it very much (fish in water and all that). Their own room, their own TV, their own net access node complete with built in storage. Hey, you wanna adopt me? ;D [/quote] hehe... my kids KNOW I am geek/nerd... what they dont realize is that they are pretty lucky to have such. My has his xbox 360 in his room with his own flatscreen ( small though) .. when CoD didnt give him the speeds he wanted via wifi... we ran ethernet to his room. he acknowledges.. its almost not fair .... those he competes against. Of course they have about 100GB of music on the NAS... son either pulls music down off that or off Spotify while he games. My daugher has 100Gb of movies on the NAS, but she lives away, so she comes home and pulls some down local and then watches them while away. That or her own Netflix account. The only thing she ever wants for Christmas is DVD's of series ( Bones, NCIS, House). The wife STOLE my Blue player and put it in the living room .. leaving me with NOTHING in the bedroom. We dont have but a few blue-rays, but the player gets Netflix (Remington Steele, Quincy, Cannon, Quantum Leap) Me... I burn many hours at TedTalks and Wimp.com. TV.. meh |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/05/12 at 11:59:27 Black Friday is 11 days from now ..... What are you willing to line up for this time? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/05/12 at 13:38:05 64474F4D4E47474E592B0 wrote:
Hey, that's neat. Your kids are very lucky and don't even realize it very much (fish in water and all that). Their own room, their own TV, their own net access node complete with built in storage. Hey, you wanna adopt me? ;D [/quote] LOL they love my little tech gifts I give them. They know more then most kids around here though, they are fairly familiar with linux already as I've already got them on a linux box for doing most of their computing needs. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/06/12 at 10:00:08 The FIRST AMD C70 low powered device is out E350 and E450 chipsets have been cancelled at AMD in favour of their New and Improved low power chipset, the C70. This pupper is supposed to go into "full power" laptops, tablets and such and supposedly "will not require a fan". HOWEVER, there is a conflict between the use of full power levels and "no fan" that still apparently exists in all the low power AMD and Intel processors. Here is an inside the cases look at the first C70 unit that is being shipped now as a "low power energy efficient fanless device". http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_0FCfl8d014/UJaZc640ntI/AAAAAAAADfg/hhbdHl_mJWE/s400/H3_b.jpg =========== Contrast this with the heat sinks required on the the current ARM processors. http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/olinuxino.jpg Now, let's be straight about the power vs capability of things -- the AMD C70 MUST use x86 technology and it must run Windows 7 and 8 as that is all that Microsoft will sell now days. IF folks could admit that other OS systems exist that can handle their daily needs just dandy -- then they wouldn't have to run a hand warmer for a chipset. X86 computing is what requires the hand heater style power levels ...... the complex instruction set require massive pipelines and other things that require a lot of space inside the processor. To bring this into correct focus, a Chrome book (running Chrome or Linux) is functionally just as fast (normal items) as a x86 machine using what Intel and AMD are trying to sell as their low power non energy wasting chipsets. However, obviously there is still a lot of energy getting wasted on the x86 machines. Windows RT is a step in the right direction, hopefully by Win9 or Win10 it will all be RT style internal programming with the x86 stuff being more of the "legacy mode" emulation arrangement that Apple uses. ;) Reduced instruction set computing doesn't require all that much pipeline nor does it require at all the on board subsystems that x86 computing requires. ARM chips actually have the whole shooting match right on the chip itself, and they rarely ever get more than 110o in heavy use. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/06/12 at 10:38:54 Found another little Allwinner A10 based board that has alot more of the features of the chip available via pin outs it doesn't have wifi but I'm sure you can solve that via a usb dongle since there are lots of them out there that are supported via linux. http://cubieboard.org/ http://cubieboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/cubieboard_top.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/06/12 at 12:10:15 The Hackberry has wifi and has pin outs, the Cubie does not have Wifi but you can dongle it thru USB if you want to. Legacy Cat5 service is another way these boards tend to differ. As is video, some have HDMI as their main squeeze and others go after supporting existing hardware. Some support VGA monitors, existing speakers, etc. And I think I see a hard drive ribbon connector on this bad boy ..... Me, I'm watching that Olimex site as they seem to be intent on building complete cheap little linux single board computers using my existing monitor, keyboard and speakers AND they are saying the Allwinner A31/A40 (28 nanometer quad core A7) chip will be here soon with boards built and fully Linux supported by Olimex. So now you got Miniand and Olimex as saying "We support Linux on Allwinner chipsets and we will have great new stuff soon." http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/olinuxino.jpg http://liliputing.com/2012/11/olinuxino-a13-a-tiny-open-source-computer-for-under-60.html |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/06/12 at 12:51:18 Speaking of that 28 nanometer quad core cortex A7 Allwinner A40 chipset, one of their phone customers has done let the cat out of the bag and we are also looking at Mali 658 or better graphics to go along with that new chipset. Quad core A7 will be significantly faster than a single or dual core A8 or A9 as each of the four A7 cores can do the same amount of work as a A8 core can do, PLUS they get to offload associated video processing tasks to the 8 graphics cores in the Mali 658 processor. This is Apple's favorite trick, offloading CPU tasks to the GPU to speed up the overall workflow of getting it up on the screen quickly. Because the A40 will ship out at 28 nanometer it will be functionally as fast as a quad core A9 is right now (which is built at 40 nanometer). This is not going to be a shabby slow low cost SOC at all, it will be the equal to any of the pre A-15's SOCs out there, including the last year's Apple, the one that drives the retina display in the 10" tablet. But later on next year it will actually be the bottom of the new food chain and it will wind up being quite inexpensive. Yield will drive this little chip out of the gate first out of the A-15 family -- the 12 cores on the same silicon A40 (4 cpu and 8 gpu) will be the same physical size as a single current A8 chip is now. Still, the new 28 nanometer process means a lot more computer power can go on the same POP package size -- which means you can get a LOT MORE of them off of a standard substrate wafer compared to their bigger A-15 brothers. And since they are simple and easy lithography (compared to an A-15 big-LITTLE package) you will get a lot more of them at the end of each production day. Demand for this A40 chip will be HUGE, as until big-LITTLE really takes off good at the end of next year this quad core Allwinner SOC will be a really commanding "bottom end" to the phone and tablet markets. It will require LESS POWER than existing single core chips, so it will need same size or smaller batteries. Phones will be faster and slimmer. And that is Allwinner's key market segment, the bottom end of the food chain. They aim and plan to take it for at least a year, then they let somebody else vie to have it for six months while they prepare their next assault to be good for another year. Allwinner sells a LOT of chips with this philosophy, they get ARM do a good hard micro and they very early on selectively buy up the bottom of the heap (defined as best processing power for the best battery life) and then immediately go into full production on a fully supported (ARM guaranteed) design putting it out at a commandingly low price. People kept saying that the A10 came out of nowhere and simply took over .... and they were right. Think of them as the Apple of the Low End. And because of this speed to market you will see little oriental companies advertising their new A7 quad core Allwinner A40 phones before the big boys even have their very expensive A-15 stuff out on the deluxe deep end of the pool. http://linux-sunxi.org/images/thumb/c/c8/Early-A40-banner-by-charbax.jpg/800px-Early-A40-banner-by-charbax.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/07/12 at 12:00:02 Steam and CroTeam have figured out that the Linux gaming platform is viable financially. They have each taken a very fool proof method to get 100% assured works every time game play -- they provide you with a customized stripped down speeded up command line Linux OS as part of the game. They can do this for free, the code <1 gigabyte compressed and wonder of wonder, you start up the game and suddenly you got full featured game, on Linux. You log off, you go back to your normal Linux distro. Do you remember when most state of the art games used to reboot you back to a customized DOS for speed reasons back when Windows was a puppy? This in-game OS should be familiar to you then .... and also note this same release method should run on any version of Windows as well since you are suspending the background OS and starting up your own. Microsoft is fighting against this sort of stuff with their "digital verification" schemes as they want all games to be Direct X driven (fighting to keep alive, in other words). ============ Linux is getting ready to support Direct X 11 naturally using Wine and Reactos code, so even this work around may not be required for very long. It still is FASTER though, and these new games require some Serious speed. ============ Why are they doing this? Many ex Russian states have never been big on Microsoft, they have always been Linux driven. They are writing and consuming a lot more games now-a-days, too. CroTeam = Croatia based company in case you have forgotten |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/07/12 at 12:14:01 Dang I've already got the Hackberry boards in hand. Not bad coming from Hong Kong 3 days from the day I ordered. I wasn't expecting them so fast so now I'm waiting on the keyboards with built in trackpads that I ordered before I can begin messing with them. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/07/12 at 12:19:18 684B4341424B4B4255270 wrote:
Now that's pretty cool. I've been waiting for Steam to port to Linux for along time now. I wasn't aware that they were also working on DirectX being directly compatible for Linux as well. That is gonna be great. I'll finally be able to rid myself for the most part of MicroSuck OS R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/07/12 at 12:25:47 Hackberry is still good for everything it was good for a week ago before all this "early next year" news stuff broke. Watching ARM is as entertaining as early DOS to Windows used to be, with IBM and Comaq and MS making pacts (OS2) and betraying each other and breaking them. It was like watching a hand grenade explode in slow time .... You will NEVER be happy with where you buy in a week after you do it .... Did you notice any extra, slightly smaller empty connector blocks over next to the current processor on the boards you just got, kinda rectangular and about 80% the size of the what you got now? Yup, future processor compatible board designs .... boards take too much lead time to make (half a year) for this fast changing environment so they put in the socket connectors for the next gen processor if the specs are available. That way when the processors start to roll, they are already ready. Now that you know what you are looking for, you can see it on this one, http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/olinuxino.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/07/12 at 13:32:23 Nope the Hackberry board doesn't have the spot per-designed in for the next gen processor. Only un-populated spots on the board are 2 areas for 2 more USB connectors one on top and one on the bottom of the board. The one on the bottom of the board looks more like it is designed for a micro usb connector though instead of the standard type A connector, so I'm guessing that could be for a usb-otg but not sure. From the reading I've been doing over at miniand most have just wired it with a pigtail to use it as a regular usb port. If you want I can take a few pics to show you the current shipping design of the board. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/07/12 at 16:17:38 Naw, just give us some functional feed back once you get it and a mating Linux up and running. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/07/12 at 16:22:42 5E7D7577747D7D7463110 wrote:
will do. Should have my SD cards and Keyboards in a few days so then I'll be able to start messing around with them. So far all I've been able to do, is plug them in and use a mouse with them to verify they work with the stock Android OS that is loaded on them. I can say for sure so far, it's a quick responding little sucker. I seems to run alot smoother then my phone does that's a single core at 1.4ghz running JellyBean. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Cavi Mike on 11/07/12 at 19:22:15 1E3D3537343D3D3423510 wrote:
That's because Windows was just a program - not an operating system. Now that it's actually the OS, there's no need for it. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/07/12 at 22:21:50 Yep, this was true -- Windows 3.1 was still a shell over the top of DOS. XP was the first "unified" Windows (still 32 bit though). The game people couldn't know what version of DOS you were using so they supplied their own stripped down version so everything would work right (amazing how things change and yet still stay the same). I am typing this note at 1:08 AM, I just got home from work. My wife is asleep and the house is quiet. I am typing this on her laptop as I update and virus check and defrag her working laptop as it is acting "strange" again. The 3 speed fan is singing me a three tone song in 6 part harmony as it speeds up and down and up and down and down and up and up again as Malwarebytes grinds through the hard drive yet one more time again. I'm thinkin' lustful thoughts about that purty $249 Google Chrome book running one of the new ARM specific Linux distros that are coming out now days .... Hell, I'm even thinkin' Chrome OS might even be what she needs .... I'm thinkin' anyways. VERY THIN AND LIGHT with NO FAN at all. NO antivirus. NO defrag. Google automatically senses and replaces any section of the OS that gets altered and you do NOTHING. But MicroChoke has grabbed her by her POWERPOINT and stuck her to her WORD. She ain't going anywhere .... Chrome OS would be a bridge too far for my babydoll. Oh well .... |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/10/12 at 02:23:47 http://www.phonearena.com/news/ARM-Cortex-A15-a-deeper-look_id36225 In this article the 2013 roll-out of the quad core A15 is spelled out, plus the Intel Rabbit That Must Be Pulled Out of the Hat finally gets named and its arrival date is due in mid-2013. Note: when pushed by widespread quad core A15 chip releases Intel shows they don't want to get run under the plow blade and get turned under with the sod .... they are actually going to DO something !!! 3 cheers for Intel -- now let's see you NOT entangle MS in it and get it all screwed up by them like last 2 times. History has shown twice now that your very best small light x86 CISC chips can't compete against ARM efficiency (which springs from 32 bit RISC code, which is light and fast to execute). Dump MicroChoke x86 CISC and live. Build a fast light RISC chip that can compete in phone space. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/20/12 at 17:44:27 http://liliputing.com/2012/11/samsung-working-on-quad-core-arm-cortex-a15-chip-with-4-extra-low-power-cores.html Samsung working on quad-core ARM Cortex-A15 chip with 4 extra low power cores http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/biglittle.jpg The 8 core chip will be based on a 28nm design. The 4 Cortex-A15 cores will run at speeds as high as 1.8 GHz and feature 2 MB of L2 cache. The 4 Cortex-A7 cores will go up to 1.2 GHz. While Samsung is introducing the new processor in February, we probably won’t see it in actual products until later in the year. Samsung is pulling this "most powerful" A-15 chipset forward to the front of the heap at customer request (Google and others) as the move to 20nm and the A57 series will take place in the following year (being driven forward early by Apple, intentionally). So if anyone is going to get any benefit out of the most powerful chip out of the A-15 series of chips it needs to be EXPEDITED asap to the front of the line, not "worked up to" over 2 years as in the past. Progress LEAPS forward on this one ...... This will be your Christmas 2013 hot chip in all the sweet new devices. Nexus 8 should be an ass kicker with this processor, as should a new Chromebook or two. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/30/12 at 17:33:23 $89 buys a quad core A-9 with Ubuntu support .... complete with heat sink style extruded case http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 http://com.odroid.com/sigong/_Files/2012/201211/images/201211242034331171.jpg http://com.odroid.com/sigong/_Files/2012/201211/images/201211251432537052.jpg http://com.odroid.com/sigong/_Files/2012/201211/images/201211251432377371.jpg http://com.odroid.com/sigong/_Files/2012/201211/images/201211291304301718.jpg :D Man oh man, they are getting closer and closer to my "double up" goal numbers ..... and these guys talk "overclocking" too. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 11/30/12 at 19:48:45 Dangit, now where was that when I ordered the Hackberries :-/ On the Hackberry it's kinda slow in linux still with a GUI due to the beta issues of having to reverse engineer a gpu driver for the mali graphics, but I bet that quad core would do just fine until they get all the bugs ironed out in the drivers for the mali graphics in linux. So I'm having to stick to Android on it for the intended use I planned for the 2 hackberries so I can have the hardware acceleration of the graphics. I'm almost thinking about ordering one of those after the holidays, but I think I may wait to see what comes next. They seem to be progressing rather fast on these little ARM powered boards lately so who knows what will come in the 1st qtr of the new year. R.F. OF --- hold on to them, Linaro has released real drivers to the Linux Kernel which will be incorporated and dispersed with Kernal release 3.7.7 and up. Things should "just work" with Mali 400 after that point. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 11/30/12 at 21:13:45 From what I remember, multi-core counts 1 for the first cpu plus 1/2 for the second and the rest don't count at all unless you have a game or an app that uses all 4 cores effectively to the max (and nothing ever does). So this thing is effectively a 2.5 gigahertz machine (1.7 plus .85) with 2 gig of systems memory with a Mali 400 4 core gpu. Video is not so hot for now-a-days, got some better stuff out there already. So, this is the first "double up" machine to my white box at home. and it does look good too, sitting in that significant heat sink that it doesn't really need unless you are overclocking it and mashing it hard. Now the Allwinner A40 will swing 4 A-7 cores at 1.2 gigahertz (1.8 total) with 2 gig of systems memory and a Mali 658 8 core graphics system. It will cost like $50 after it is out a while. I am sure Hardcore is going to do all the Samsung chips in series as they roll out so there is a dual and quad core A15 out there in the future (which will kick some serious ass inside the next year at 2.2 + 1.1 = 3.3 gigahertz with an 8 core Mali 658 system on the quad core A-15. Oddly enough, this quad core A-9 rig up will run hotter than any of the future ones as it is an older larger 32nm lithography set up. The newer chips which come after this will come in at 28nm and 20nm and be physically much smaller and run a lot cooler to boot. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 12/03/12 at 13:35:41 OF, just saw your edit reply in my post. I'm not getting rid of these hackberries at all. Even with the Android OS they are gonna work perfect for my intended use for the kids X-Mas presents maybe even better since Netflix streaming still isn't available in Linux yet, but it in Android. All I really have left todo on these things is make the cases for them now and also do a new kernel with the CIFS module added so that I can mount the Media share from my server as a network drive on them and they will be ready to wrap up. Under Android when I downloaded one of the file managers that lets you explore network drives I was able to pick and play some of the movies from there to test them out, and even with some of the movies I did awhile back when testing out the best settings for Blu-Ray transcoding for quality vs size, I tried some of the ones that I did at the higher quality and these little boards didn't miss a beat at 1080P resolution and full 5.1 DTS-HD sound. Now since you said the linux kernel 3.7.7 will support the mali gpu natively in linux that will be perfect for when I get my cubie board in to play with for myself, as it has the same A10 chip on it, just has the added capabilities of most of the other pins brought out to an expansion header where as the hackberry doesn't. From the latest email I got from them over at the cubie group I will be among the first to get my delivery because of the package I got. They just ended the Funds drive and are now in the production stage for the boards so it should be shortly after the first of the year for me to get it. Now for that new board you linked with the quad core. One thing I really like about it, other then the extra power, is the ability to use and swap out on-board emmc, with is much faster then SDcards. I was looking at the options and they have them available with android or Linux pre-installed on them ranging from 8GB to 64GB sizes. Those would make some nice little white box general use desktops for people that don't really need a demanding computer, although I'm sure the mali 400 could handle some decent gaming and it definitely handles 1080P movies without any issues at all. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/03/12 at 13:58:26 Having met the "double up" requirements and seeing "triple up" becoming available inside the upcoming year, I am content to wait and continue watching the explosion of new goodies. You are not the only one reporting lacks on the software side -- most litle box forums are rife with teething issues on the software side, which they are patching as fast as they can with custom patches (but they are patching things that should be done in the kernel, which slows the device down accordingly). Linus is complaining about ARM being too disjointed with "nobody in charge" and Linaro is trying to step into that gap by offering tool chain kits BEFORE the various SOC chips designed and released. Linus is tell the chip dudes to use the tool chain tools and stock drivers, or provide a fully tested driver set up front if you want into the kernel. The marketplace is also showing a strong preference for "conforming" chipsets like the Allwinner chipsets, which stick strictly to the Linaro tool chain models (and also make it to market quicker and cheaper for having done so). Kernel 3.7.7 will open up some of the flood gates to these type of devices. And I am expecting somebody other than Ubuntu to start putting out some dedicated distros designed exactly and specifically for the little ARM chipsets boxes. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by verslagen1 on 12/03/12 at 22:24:28 there's hope for me yet... http://www.chalk-elec.com/?page_id=1280#!/~/product/category=3094861&id=14647633 http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/313017/47903653.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/05/12 at 12:38:54 http://liliputing.com/2012/12/chip-updates-new-processors-for-tablets-phones-on-the-way.html Chip announcement time !!! The rumors begin to get real part numbers and proposed ship dates. Allwinner quad core A-7 is going to be called the Allwinner A31. And this is going to be a low end chip for next year's cell phone & tablet horse races .... Samsung Exynos 5440 quad-core ARM Cortex-A15 chip is going to be the best highest level candidate for "3x up on my home PC in a little bitty format". We are still waiting for details on the graphics cores to be released, but first info is that everyone wants to be able to provide "retinal displays" so look for the Mali 400 go go away and the new Mali numbers to start with 6xx designations. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/06/12 at 16:33:39 Onda V972 Quad Core 9.7 Inch Retina Screen RAM 2GB Dual Camera Android Tablet PC 16GB http://liliputing.com/2012/12/onda-v972-tablet-features-an-allwinner-quad-core-cpu-retina-style-display.html OK, Allwinner does the same exact trick again as they did last time -- they don't say squat until the real products hit the shelves and WHAMMO, they are at least one processor generation ahead of their low end competitors with a good supply of chips to ship. Here is a quad core A-7 with a retina display for I didn't expect to see this this year from Allwinner, I was thinking late first quarter of next year at the earliest. But thar she blows, the Allwinner white whale jumps high and totally skips over the A-9 directly to the A-7 28 nanometer generation. Next skip jump they take will be a 64 bit A-53 at 20 nanometer, and that will be what, late next year? :o |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/12 at 16:46:18 retina display? do you poke yerself in the eye to select stuff? :o |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/06/12 at 17:51:33 Nope, it is APPLE marketing speak for so many pixels that your eye can't keep up with it any more. Not to be confused with Retina2 displays which will come out this summer with twice as many pixels. Seriously, you just have to look at stuff & squint to move your cursor. ;D thank you, Stephen Hawking, your eye cursor is now mainstream Yeah, sounds fantastic doesn't it? But this year's talk to it and it talks back tablets was kinda nifty too, wasn't it? Struck 'ol Bill's boys plumb mute it did. ;) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Vector_Video_Standards2.svg/540px-Vector_Video_Standards2.svg.png In this case it is 2048 by 1536 resolution or QXGA (the lower right hand rectangle corner) .... and this is in a cheap Chinese tablet landing before Santa does this year??? What in the world will Santa bring the rich kids next Christmas? |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/07/12 at 11:21:55 "You can't always believe what you read" category "The overall performance is 2 times faster as that of the Quad Core Tegra 3, 1.5 times faster than iPad 2,and rival that of the New iPad." No less than 5 additional Chinese tablet makers have outed their Allwinner A31 "APPLE like" 9.7 inch tablets. Why the exact same screen size as APPLE? The manufacturers who supplied APPLE are the only ones making a "retina" quality display screen. These Chinese folks are claiming "better performance" than the IPad3 on display and battery life. ::) NOT REAL, these claims -- 85-90% as good, OK we could accept that but Better ??? Naw, APPLE ain't that easy. But we can see Google and Amazon and Barnes & Noble sucking dust as of today. However, now you can see the monkey gun in motion. APPLE has to rush their A57 quad core equivalent into production ASAP or the faster to market Chinese using hard macro A53 designs straight from ARM are going to deny them their 1 year advantage just about completely. Look for APPLE to come out with a new killer diller processor in the spring, but also look for the gap to narrow between APPLE and the cheap Chinese competition. Also look for some of the slower competitors to do a Texas Instrument move and "leave the market" as they simply can't keep up with this crazy insane pace. Plus, the cheap stuff from China just lapped them again .... that's gotta hurt. In this market, that means low to no sales on all your stock on hand as Android press and people KNOW what is hot and what is not. And you drop all efforts on anything that will not be competitive, right now you drop it. And on top of this, Allwinner and the rest are already working on their multi core A53 chipsets (the chip are similar which will make it easy to do IF 20 nanometer production lines are built quickly in China as well). =========== Crazy stuff continues on the A31 saga -- 5 Chinese phones are out using the same quad core chip. What in the world is a phone going to do with all that horsepower? Answer is simple, the chip can autoscale all the way back to just one (1) A7 core running at its lowest idle speed just to keep the background emails and messages and tweets running. It can instantly and seamlessly scale up through that core's speed range and each of the remaining cores speed range as needed to handle the workload. The phones will be seamlessly FAST and will last a longer time between charges. The A7 chip was built from the ground up to be the most energy efficient chip ARM has ever built. Phones were supposed to use a single big little with one A7 and one A15 for phones, but the Chinese caught on to a trick, four A7s can do anything a single core each big little can do at similar to better energy cost, so why go there at all? Plus, the quad core A7 is cheaper to make and takes up less real estate on the lithography wafer than a single A15 does and it has much higher production yields as well. The A15 core is much more complex and it by itself carries a scrap penalty that is much higher than a whole quad core A7 SOC would carry. Fair warning, this Chinese production/energy trick didn't go past ARM unnoticed. The new A53 64 bit chipsets at 20 nanometer have hard macro designs starting at 4 and going up to 8 cores. If Allwinner comes flying out of the gate with an 8 core A53 with next gen above retina graphics MID NEXT YEAR, the slower guys like Qualcom and Broadcom might well toss in their towels. The cheapest of the cheap are nipping at the heels of APPLE and leaving no room for the rest of the pack. Software in Android and in Linux needs to get much better at using multiple cores past the first two. Quad core is going to be dirt common in the future and a lot of games and stuff now are barely recognizing and using a dual core set-up anywhere near effectively. Better, more modern software will be required in the future. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by rfw2003 on 12/07/12 at 17:52:54 7E5D5557545D5D5443310 wrote:
It's not just Android and Linux that need to step up here, All software does. Very few things really use multi-threading beyond 2 to 3 cores currently unless it's target is the GPU then those apps multi-thread very well. So far I've only see 2 types of applications that multi-thread on cpu's to the full extent well at least to the 8 cores that I have on my main desktop anyways, and that is MySql database and Most Video transcoders based on x264 such as Handbrake and RipBot 264. I have tried MicroSucks SQL Database and can't get it to use more then 4 cores under a heavy load when it starts to slow down and get laggy. So Software writers really need to get off there collective butts and start making the software compatible with all these extra cores that are more and more common even on the low end stuff. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/08/12 at 11:54:14 Android and Linux deal with two different code masses, really. Mainstream Linux has been 64 bit and multi-core for quite a while, so the 64 bit stuff will be fine when we get there next year. Problem is we are currently having to run the "old 32 bit versions" of Linux on the existing 32 bit ARM stuff that is available now and one of the precepts of "old 32 bit versions" of Linux is that it was intentionally written for older single core processors. So, Linux will ramp up next year just fine to multi-tread, multi-core and 64 bit as it will be rejoining the main stream of things (even have a supporting 64 bit kernel with drivers and all). It won't be flaw free, a changeover never is. Lots of things will hit bug lists and get fixed inside of 6 months or so. Older Linux programs will still have been aimed at single thread execution as after all, they are older programs. Lots of old stuff in Linux though, old code that works well doesn't get scrapped, it gets reused. Linux is full of older code -- it works, so they don't mess with it just for the jollies of it. Android however will be have to be re-released in a 64 bit supporting dessert flavor that will have practically NO software out there in the Play Store that is written for 64 bit or multi-core. And all the older Android games were all built in a 32 bit single processor single threaded world. So, if I were faced with a high clock speed dual core A57 that sucked some juice vs a more efficient quad or octa core A53, either of which tested out within 10% of each other, I'd be better off to go with the fewer faster cores (at a higher price, cost and energy use) because the existing software mass can handle dual cores a lot better than it can a quad core. Octa core? Really now, they will never get off idle if they are load-spreading across 8 cores and that is if they can get all 8 of the cores to light up using the single stream of 32 bit RISC instructions coming from the software. Now, Linaro and ARM are aware of and are working on this issue, trying to get the core management system to show the software a multi core processor as if it were a large fast single core system. Good luck with that, you are just load-spreading instead of multi-treading and we all remember how well that worked in the x86 world when that issue was current. You would be a lot smarter to set up the 64 bit system to dual execute 32 bit instructions on each core flawlessly as that is what all Android software is, a string of fast 32 bit RISC instructions. However, you just 2x'd your functional core count which made the core issue worse, not better. It is a puzzlement, no? =============== Now the good news. 32 bit RISC instructions execute quickly and they can be split up between cores efficiently if the system is really set up that way. So Android and Linux code will still remain much faster than X86 code even if the 64 bit changeover is fraught with old software, etc. etc. The code is much smaller and lighter (and generally speaking better written). And the new generation processors are so much faster that folks will see NOTICEABLE speed increases and new snappy smooth performance out of these new devices. ;D And if you can Stephen Hawing eyeball your screen to move the cursor and talk to your machine as well as touch the screen and type on the keyboard and click your mouse, boy, just think how much more exercise you are going to get. The kids a year or so from now will sit in class with their phones in their laps just a twitching and blinking and mumbling to themselves -- a regular epileptic twitchy generation. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/12 at 06:25:04 http://liliputing.com/2012/12/allwinner-introduces-dual-and-quad-core-tablets.html http://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/AllWinner_A20_block_diagram.jpg And now comes the Allwinner A20 SOC, a dual core A7 that wields the same Mali400 graphics as the original A10 had --- and cleverly uses the exact same die size and ball pin connections. So, any Chinese tablet or device that used the A10 can drop in an A20 and get dual core power with no additional investments in board or tooling or really much of anything. Can we say "clever recycling"? Clock speed is not formally out yet, but 1.0 to 1.2 ghz per core is likely since overheating won't be the issue that it was with the A10. So, let's swing low on our estimations, 1.0 for the first core and a half (0.5) for the second core which would add up to be a 1.5 gigahertz type performing dual core chipset. Energy use would be very good, and it would be very convenient to drop this ball connector "pin matching" chip into a whole bunch of existing tablet and board and stick PC designs. Linux support has not been announced, but Mali400 is currently supported as is the A7 cores will be, so the only issue is the supported peripherals which should be able to be covered by Linux kernel 2.6.7 when it actually hits the distros. Allwinner can expedite this with the Linaro group as they did with the A10 which will open up the A-20 floodgates to the various hobby groups. But once again, instead of being baked into the kernel the support will be driver based (somewhat slower). This chip will power the less than $100 tablets and phones, it will not be in the upper half of things power-wise at all. But Allwinner will sell a mort of them, bunches and bunches as tooling and boards already exist with no additional effort needed. Look for rapid upgrades in your hobby stuff that is already out there. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by Oldfeller on 12/18/12 at 16:16:28 77 cores, coming in 2013, Tegra 4 Wayne A15 chip Got to rush "the big gun" to market, as it only has 6-8 months before it gets washed away by the 64 bit stuff ..... http://liliputing.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/wayne.jpg The Wayne processor is said to feature 4-plus-1 processor cores, much like the NVIDIA Tegra 3 processor. That means it’s basically a quad-core chip with an extra low-power companion core which kicks in for basic, low-level functions. What’s new is the graphics area of the chip, which will reportedly have 72 cores and offer 6 times the performance of Tegra 3, and 20 times the performance of a Tegra 2 chip. |
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Title: Re: Cortex A15 is here, Apple and 5 others shippin Post by arteacher on 12/18/12 at 16:44:57 Way back in the '90's I was given the job of teaching a small group of art teachers how to do basic things on a computer. I enlisted a geek, from the school I was teaching at, for every teacher for one on one instruction. It went well, and we had some regular business to attend to. The geeks were all gathered around one of the best computers in the school talking. The only bit I understood was "Woe.... cool!" Kinda deja vu. ;D |
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