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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1350184380 Message started by blackhalo on 10/13/12 at 20:13:00 |
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Title: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by blackhalo on 10/13/12 at 20:13:00 Hi guys, I'm looking at getting some Chumps/Apes soon... and in the process I want to minimize the clutter on the bars. I'm gonna move some of the important electrical into switches, probably mounted on the lower side panel, and hide the rest... so I'm not concerned about that part (ideas / advice are always welcome tho). I've seen some low profile (and cheap) clutch/throttle replacements on LowbrowCustoms and other places... so that should also be fairly straight-forward (I've disassembled my bars before). But... I'm not certain about the Master Cylinder... can I use a smaller master cylinder on this bike? I'm eyeballing the Triumph style with the small round reservoir: http://www.lowbrowcustoms.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1872 There's also a nifty DOT5 tube idea on ChopCult: http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1285 Not sure I'll go that far with it... but I definitely want to get rid of the monster box that's on there now. Anyone have advice on the HOW's and WHY's of this procedure? Does the reservoir NEED to be that big? Seems not... I've ridden 6K miles in the last 8 months, and the brake fluid is still pretty much full. So how do I choose a replacement... how do I make sure I'm keeping the same pressure needed to run these brakes? In other words, how would YOU do this mod?? :) P.S. I'm not adverse to using take-off parts from other bikes (cheap is good)... for example I think there's some old Yamaha cylinders that are pretty small, gotta find them again tho... suggestions welcome!! |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/12 at 20:34:24 I dunno if Id admit to anyone I was riding a bike equipped with Chump bars.. but hey, man,, if you can handle it,, Well,, wouldya just looka there? The I is right next to the U,, Hmm,, He mita been aimin at Chimp,,,, ohh, but wheres the fun in that? Smaller MC? If the reservoir isnt big enough to displace the piston thru the life of the pads & you dont refill it, you could run into a braking problem, If you Do manage to keep the reservoir filled to a safe level, then when its time for pads & you crush the piston back into the housing, youll overflow the reservoir, so, youll need to add thru the life of the pads & remove fluid when its time for pads. Aside from that, the piston size, lever mechanical advantage may deliver a different "feel". Smaller piston ( in the MC)would deliver a lighter lever feel & still deliver good braking.. Could be a good thing, |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by blackhalo on 10/13/12 at 21:05:48 Hehe, yeah... Lowbrow Customs calls them Chumps (8" apes), I woulda called them Chimps... but y'know those vintage chopper builders are all hopped up on the dust! ;) So I've been reading a bit about master cylinder "hydraulic advantage" and other such math-like things... (seems the sport bike crowd are actually good for something after all)... they take it to a whole other level of charting and ratios. Yet, it seems to me... all I need to do is make sure the ratio is the same (and consider the dangers of not refilling on time). If you take a look at that ChopCult link, those dudes are running 500lb+ Harleys with nothing but a drop of fluid in a tube... quite a few say they've run that way for years without a refill. So maybe the "clear tube" method is a good idea after all... keep a close eye, so there's no accidental toboggan rides!! Still curious what else I might be missing (thx Justin, good advice btw)... maybe some suggestions on direct replacements for the master cylinder (off other bikes)? |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by CalisOsin on 10/13/12 at 22:45:12 I can be a little lazy, so if you do the research and find out the parts needed, let us know! |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by ToesNose on 10/14/12 at 03:23:55 I think it's Cavi Mike who has a cool looking master cylinder, sorry I couldn't locate the pic to verify :-? |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by blackhalo on 10/14/12 at 07:25:00 0A313B2D10312D3B5E0 wrote:
Thanks TN... typed his name into Google images and found pics, which led me to this thread: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1343961685/13 I'll hit him up and see what he has to say about it. |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by Cavi Mike on 10/14/12 at 14:22:57 http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1285 That tube doesn't make any sense and I'm not sure what this guy thinks it has to do with rain. As your brake pads wear, the piston moves farther out of the caliper and this pulls more fluid from the system. The reservoir not only provides this extra fluid but it also has diaphragm that prevents vacuum from pulling that fluid back into the reservoir. Without that diaphragm, eventually so much vacuum will build up that it will start pulling the piston back into the caliper or possibly even prevent the brake lever from returning. Either way, your brake's engagement point will get closer and closer to the handlebar until you have no more motion left and you will be left with no front brake. Most likely this guy isn't going to have any idea what is happening and he'll think it couldn't possibly have anything to do with his "brilliant" idea. He seems to think the biggest problem with this setup is going to be piston diameter. I've also found most of the guys on that forum to be of a much lower average intelligence than any other bike forum I've been on. You need a proper reservoir and stop worrying about piston diameter. The bike is a cruiser with a single front disc. If you are worried about how much control you have while doing stoppies, you need a different bike. |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by verslagen1 on 10/14/12 at 15:43:25 Quote:
Seems like that's just a long tiny air bleed line. They use a clear tube to keep an eye on the level, cause you'll need to refill as the pads wear. matching up the replacement m/c piston size with the stock one keeps the mechanical advantage the same. A practice I would highly advise. |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by Scott_H on 10/15/12 at 08:56:44 I'm running this one with no issues so far. I had to tweak it a bit to fit on the 1" bars. It's smaller than the stock one and set at a 45* angle which I found different/cool. -Scott http://www.mikesxs.net/product/08-4005.html |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by blackhalo on 10/15/12 at 22:50:23 Right on Scott, that's actually the site I was looking at a while ago (thx for that!)... I dig those, and I think there's a few more decent options on there, have to dig around. For those interested, this was a good article explaining how things work: http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56704 So basically, it's not the size of the reservoir that matters (as much)... the critical part is the size of the master cylinder vs the calipers (piston ratio / pressure)... extreme mis-matching can result in soft brakes, or a 'wooden' on/off response. I haven't had a moment to eyeball the calipers with a flashlight yet... anyone know off-hand what the size is / where the stamp is? I'll post it tomorrow once I find. Bars are ordered! :) |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by Serowbot on 10/15/12 at 23:03:11 Some things we want bigger,.. some smaller... If the bigger things were smaller,... and the smaller things were bigger... We'd still want.... :-/... Go ask Alice... :-? |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by Cavi Mike on 10/15/12 at 23:11:51 7E707D7F77747D70731C0 wrote:
That's pretty funny - quoting a stunting forum. I seem to remember someone mentioning you've bought the wrong bike if you're that concerned about brake feel... 4062756A4E6A6866030 wrote:
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by blackhalo on 10/17/12 at 08:12:40 @CaviMike: I'm not concerned about "brake feel"... I'm concerned about paying $150 for a new Master Cylinder that locks my front wheel up every time I pull the trigger. You should read that link. |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by verslagen1 on 10/17/12 at 09:00:26 I'd be worried about brake feel if it were on or off like the rear brake. |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by J C Stokes on 10/17/12 at 18:34:01 Black Halo, go to the latest post about restoring wheels and look at the photo of the Savage with dual front discs. There is a link to the photo. The reservoir is not stock so the cylinder must be somewhere else. It would be interesting to see if you could make contact with the bikes owner. |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by Cavi Mike on 10/18/12 at 10:57:39 5B55585A5251585556390 wrote:
I'm fully aware of brakes, all of my friends still race or stunt on their sportbikes, I just happened to switch to a cruiser. What I'm also aware of is control. I'll take trigger-happy brakes any day over something a ham-fisted squid can't lock up. Dual 6-pots up front? Makes me excited in my pants. |
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Title: Re: Clean up bars... smaller master cylinder? Post by blackhalo on 10/19/12 at 10:09:17 @JC: That's a cool looking chop... pretty extreme for a Savage! I can see his reservoir is a silver vial (plugged into a British/dirtbike MC, like the clear tube trick above)... found those vials on my journey... but you gonna pay for it: http://www.whaccessories.com/BrakeReservoirs.htm Here's a totally hidden MC option from those dummies on chop cult: http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5444 I would LOOOVE to completely hide it... but remote actuation is gonna take some serious trial-and-error-and-money, which I'm really not motivated enough to do... I'd rather ride! :) I'll probably end up using the setup from MikesXS... speaking of... I can't find any discriminating marks on the MC or the Calipers to tell me what ratio the Savage is. The internet seems to have NO information either, not a spec... except one guy on some oddball forum who questionably mentioned a 12.7mm bore. BUT... that happens to be the same bore as the one on MikesXS... between Scott's vote, and a random internet mention, that looks like the path of least resistance Just waiting on the bars to arrive for a mockup... hoping I don't need a cable extension, but probably (I had drag bars, currently got Keystones): http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/16000/15005/76671.jpg Rat Salad: http://www.chopcult.com/uploads_user/16000/15005/76672.jpg |
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