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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Jobs and the economy... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1350092730 Message started by Serowbot on 10/12/12 at 18:45:30 |
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Title: Jobs and the economy... Post by Serowbot on 10/12/12 at 18:45:30 That's the issue... Do you want a job remodeling a rich guys house,... or remodeling America's roads, bridges, airports, and rails?... Want a job as Mitt's valet, or poolboy,... or a job taking America into the 21st century?... Want to get trickled on,... or fix America's leaking levies?... Them's the choices... ;) ... |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/12/12 at 20:29:59 Yep,, & who is gonna deliver? More debt now, by 6+ tr,, oops TRILLION,, fewer employed, &,, Ooops,, AND,, IIRC, someone said something about 4 years ago kinda along the lines of "I WILL repair the economy, or I Do Not Deserve another chance".. Not to imply McCain would have been one bit better or Romney would suck one bit less,, The puppets we hire dont work for us,we just pay them.. Ohhh,, & since Bammy canned the pipeline, his puppetmasters are TIKKED & Romney wins. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Retread on 10/13/12 at 07:51:49 The debt can't be taken care of until somebody gets real and says, "Sorry folks but taxes for all are going up, and military is becoming quick reaction force instead of occupation force." .. With the unlimited funds going into campaigns Romney very well might be able to buy the Presidency, if this happens this nation WILL go into great depression in three years.. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/12 at 09:40:12 The debt cant be taken care of, period,The dollar is done for. Foreign trade agreements are not using the dollar now. Agreement between China/Japan China, Japan Bypass U.S. Dollar in Pivotal Trade Agreement ... The cutting out of the dollar in Japan / China trade may be a small start of only $345 billion in global trade, but it is a sea change decision in the global monetary ... China/Russia China-Russia currency agreement further threatens U.S. dollar As countries like China and Russia phase out the usage of U.S. dollars for international trade -- including but not limited to oil trade -- its status as the world's ... www.ibtimes.com/china-russia...agreement...us-dollar-248338 - Cached China/Brazil China and Brazil Ask, "Why Bother With Dollars?" - CBS News Total trade between China and Brazil reached $3.2 billion in ... two important countries like China and Brazil have to use the dollar ... Mobile User Agreement; About CBS; Advertise www.cbsnews.com/.../china-and-brazil-ask-why...with-dollars - Cached & Dollar no longer primary oil currency as China begins to sell ... Dollar no longer primary oil currency as China begins to sell oil using Yuan ... Ron Paul: World will leave dollar unless we replace it with a gold ... www.examiner.com/article/dollar-no-longer-primary-oil... & Saddam Hussein had announced his intentions of not using the dollar, as had Ghadaffi.,& neither of them had signed their people onto IMF/World Bank debt. Amazing, no? Anyway, theres no paying the debt back,, it ( the Fed & the economic system) are designed im such a way as to make it impossible,,REad, or Listed to ,, ohh, Im not typin it again, no one will.. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Retread on 10/13/12 at 10:58:04 Geez JOG why don't we all just slit our throats now and avoid the rush... Is there anything in your world that is good??? |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/12 at 14:08:02 Loads & loads of good, great even, but pretending something is other than it is isnt "good" when evidence to the contrary is clear & obvious, irrefutable, even.No, thats delusion, thats denial. What is, IS & must be dealt with in a factual manner. Optimism & pessimism arent part of a mathematical equation that is gonna yield an uncomfortable result. Being able to see whats coming based on current & past events & time spent studying the structure & function of the mechanisms in play that are creating the economic reality of today & are designing the economic realities of the future is neither optimism or pessimism, its simply dealing with facts. I would not applaud the emotional condition of someone who could cheerfully say "All is well in my life" when in fact, their house was on fire. Ignoring the obvious in order to not be seen as a pessimist? Not for me.. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Midnightrider on 10/13/12 at 19:45:42 Work????? Hell 47% of us are moochers. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/13/12 at 19:51:58 Is it "mooching" to be on disability? "They" TOLD me ( illegally) I Had to sign up for Social Security when I was 16, or I couldnt work. I signed a contract with the goobs & they took $$$ from every check. I bore the burden of the contract. I then became disabled. I now get $$$ every month, from the goobs, per their contract they said I had to sign & honor in order to work. They bet I would be a Payee for longer than I was. I am no Moocher, I did what the contract said I had to do. Now, its their turn, |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/14/12 at 15:08:37 JOG - there is nothing in the place of the dollar ... why ... yes china and russia are going to trust each other and switch to their own reserve ... No question yuan is getting stronger ... but guess what, its indexed to the dollar. OK they are going to drop that and let yuan float ... great, it will almost immediately shoot to 3X its current value and promptly chinese garbage will become 3 X as expensive ... guess what, we will just make our own junk, thank you much. Dollar is under no threat ... going to gold ... yea would not have worked even in 2007 - though for a short while it will have made a good fight of it ... back in 2007, pre bail outs and when Ron Paul had a prayer of getting it passed through the legislature ... but now no way it will get through or work. I am really really tired of all the misinformation ... stronger dollar is greatly beneficial to people who have a big stash of it. We dont want it. we want the dollar to be worthless, if you're on fixed income you would want the dollar to be dropping and inflation properly adjusting your income. In any case, a dropping dollar wont affect any one who doesn't import, and if we do import, we will start making it. If We export, it is great. I am sick of chinese garbage, especially junk that breaks ... their junk is cheap maybe 1/2 the price ... but it also breaks 2 X as much. I try to avoid it when I can. But still it is hard. I would seriously benefit with a dropping dollar and everything else properly adjusting to inflation. Why ? simple, I am not rich. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/12 at 16:51:37 I didnt say it would be replaced.Its simply gonna have less value. Its pretty much the "other side of the coin" when less demand is part of the equation. Get ready for higher prices. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Retread on 10/15/12 at 06:53:31 Thats Ok we will have more of those dollars.. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 08:30:53 YOu really dont see an economic collapse in our future? Okay, gas goes to $6.00 a gallon & milk to $7.00,, its okay, because our paychecks will keep UP? Whats gonna start makin that happen? It hasnt Been happening since the 70's. People work more, on average, & have less now than back then, Sure, youve got your CEO types & the white collar boys, but the blue collar guys, the masses, not the Chiefs, the Indians, they work more to have less., |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Retread on 10/15/12 at 08:50:21 Yep, thats why it is so important for yall to vote Obama and support your local Union... |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Paraquat on 10/15/12 at 09:18:48 Sorry. I don't support LIARS. I'd rather vote for the ficus. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Retread on 10/15/12 at 09:32:57 Fact of life, everybody lies, everybody eats, everybody farts, and everybody has bad days.. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 09:36:30 Tread, where we are going can not be fixed by doing what has been done & there are No POlicy Changes in the works that would change our direction. Its not just US, its the world economy, & we can bicker back & forth on whether it was designed to crash & manipulated into an orchestrated collapse, which I say it was, but what we Cant argue are the clear & obvious facts. http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-largest-economy-in-the-world-is-imploding-right-in-front-of-our-eyes & when youre done reading that little bit of cheery news, come back with a smooth one liner explaining why all is well in America. If any of you have any $$$ to spend, do get some silver, |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/15/12 at 10:17:34 637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:
Yes and less value is excellent for all of us who have an income pegged atleast remotely to inflation. Its awful for those who have a stash of it in their mattress. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 10:32:45 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/GermanyHyperChart.jpg/220px-GermanyHyperChart.jpg is it? Are you Sure? Or is that something weve been taught? How much better off would we ALL have been in a REal Money economy? We will never know. What would it have been like to have lived in a Free Market economy? We will never know, |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Paraquat on 10/15/12 at 11:08:16 74435254434742260 wrote:
The difference is that I am not in a position to be impeached if I lie. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 11:27:33 If I lie, no one dies. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Starlifter on 10/15/12 at 12:26:17 "Sorry. I don't support LIARS. I'd rather vote for the ficus." --Steve Me too Steve, by God, I'm a votin fer Romney & Ryon cause they NEVER lie like the jigaboo in the 'white house'. ::) There was once a fellow named Ryan, If he opens his mouth he is Lyin' And he hates common men, Has less brains than a hen, And his Bullsh!t the people ain't buyin'. ...and, Mitt Romney being the biggest bagger of them all, wants to start more wars (Iran anyone?) with his neocon bush leftovers and yet he doesn't want to pay his fair share of taxes, or even to show his tax returns. He make Weasels look good. Please remember: Republicans have become an angry gaggle of batsh!t crazy fanatics. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/15/12 at 12:49:07 415E585F42457444744C5E52192B0 wrote:
Good point JOG - that's what happens when you go to a war without paying for it ... Excellent point ... So now who was it that took the US to war ... ha Bushies ... OK so was he right wing or left wing ? OK right wing ... good, and how long ago did he leave ... 3.75 years ... Geee that dont look like its long enough to back us out of the war we have not paid for ... I think it may take a few more years ... I took this guy's bike and rode it 20 mins ... and the motor blew up ... well all the way there the red light was on, I thought it meant I need to ride it harder ... especially as it lost power ... Then 10 mins later the guy I called showed up ... As soon as he showed up I asked him is it fixed yet ... He said no. He's so stupid ... I dont know what he thinks I am, but if I blew it in 20 mins why cant he fix it in 10 mins. He's so stupid. We need to his ass kicked out of that tow truck. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 13:26:07 You really cant see how both sides have contributed? If there was REall a difference, when one got in power they would repeal laws passed by the other. But they never do, they continue the wrong way.. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/15/12 at 15:50:46 76696F6875724373437B69652E1C0 wrote:
Correct ... so I modify my comment to this ... The bike blows up. I call 2 tow trucks. The 2 of them propose to start the bike and ride it another 20 mins @ full throttle. I hire one of them. 10 mins after he tries to start it and ride it full throttle ... the other guy says ... that fool is useless. I should start it and ride it full throttle. Ergo ... 2 morons ... But the first moron isn't giving $$$ away to the super rich ... and the second moron is. So I want the first moron to continue to attempt to start the bike and rde it full throttle for 10 more mins. After which he's out ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 15:53:18 IOW, you know we are screwed, too,, |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/15/12 at 16:04:24 203F393E23241525152D3F33784A0 wrote:
Correct - we are, and how we are screwed is what makes all the difference. Screwed with the rich getting much much richer = Romney plan. Screwed with the rich getting much richer = Obama plan. I prefer the latter. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 17:26:32 Too bad Ron Paul i8snt an option |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Paraquat on 10/15/12 at 18:27:55 756A6C6B7671407040786A662D1F0 wrote:
That's why I keep saying we need to end this duopoloy. Both sides have yielded nothing and yet people are so transfixed on one or the other. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/12 at 20:00:20 When I hear someone say, regarding DC, "How stupid do they think we are", I have a very hard time Not Laughing in their face. The dumb masses have Proven how stupid they are, Over & Over, by continuing to behave as IF there is a solution to the problem to be found by working WITHIN the system. If voting COULD affect change, they would have outlawed it long ago. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/12 at 16:33:56 In 1914, before World War I, a loaf of bread in Germany cost the equivalent of 13 cents. Two years later it was 19 cents, and by 1919, after the war, that same loaf was 26 cents – doubling the prewar price in five years. Bad, yes — but not alarming. But one year later a German loaf of bread cost $1.20. By mid-1922, it was $3.50. Just six months later, a loaf cost $700, and by the spring of 1923 it was $1,200. As of September, it cost $2 million to buy a loaf of bread. One month later, it cost $670 million, and the month after that $3 billion. Within weeks it was $100 billion, at which point the German mark completely collapsed. The whole time the German government kept printing more money, so much so that people burned it in their fireplaces because it was cheaper than wood. Why didn’t they just stop and try to stabilize the currency? “When things began to disintegrate, no one dared to take away the punchbowl,” Cashin wrote in his report. ”They feared shutting off the monetary heroin would lead to riots, civil war, and, worst of all, communism. So, realizing that what they were doing was destructive, they kept doing it out of fear that stopping would be even more destructive.” Cashin advises Americans to keep an eye on M2, a measure of the nation’s money supply, particularly how much money is in circulation. The government reports this number every week. A sudden spike could signal the start of hyperinflation in America. And once people decide they’d rather spend their money as fast as possible, the so-called “velocity of money” – how quickly money changes hands – takes off. The faster it goes, the higher the rate of inflation. While those holding our debt dont use it, just sit on it, then, its not inflationary. But, if they cash it in & spend it & it comes Home to circulate in our pool of dollars, each of our dollars will be smaller in comparison, swimming in the pool filled with dollars. Theres a dance in the gym,, 2 guys standing in the gym in school. 1 girl walks in,, she gets Her pick. 2 guys, standing in the gym, 100 girls walk in. The guys get to pick,, a loaf of bread, on a shelf, theres only a dollar in the community, that bread goes for a buck. A loaf of bread on a shelf. Theres 20 BILLION dollars in the community,, How much is that bread gonna cost? A LOT more than a dollar. Understanding the mechanism that creates inflation isnt hard, at least not for me, if it just doesnt make sens to anyone here, then please look for explanations from the Mises institute, Lew Rockwell or G. Edward Griffin. If you look to anything from the fed to explain the damage done BY the fed, you mite not get a straight answer. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/17/12 at 05:18:44 Correct JOG, 100%. That german analogy is a perfect example of what happens when you wage war on a bunch of countries ... and lets see who happened to do that in the US ... aaaah yes, the Bushies. Once again, Bushies was a repug ... no ? Good points you make JOG as always. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Charon on 10/17/12 at 05:39:44 Want to know where a lot of jobs went? Every time you use a self-serve gas pump think about the pump jockey out of work. Every time you direct-dial a telephone number think about the telephone operator out of work. Every time you use an ATM think about a teller out of work. Every time you eat at a fast food joint (whether inside or at the drive-thru) think about the waiter/waitress out of work. Every time you shop in a grocery store or department store, think about the clerk out of work because you located and carried your own purchase. When you see a multi-engine train go by, think of the engineers and firemen out of work because one person in the lead locomotive controls all the others. When you see a farmer working with a huge tractor or combine, think of the farmhands out of work. The list goes on, and has nothing to do at all with offshore outsourcing. Most of the blame can be laid at the feet of automation and cheap energy. Now, what would you change to "bring back the old days and the jobs?" |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/17/12 at 06:41:10 Much of that is automation as a result of our high cost of labor. In any case we should have under 6% or even 5%. The end result for the last couple of % is china, and illegals. I am glad we dont have 10, 15% unemployment. In fact in the IT field Legal immigrants and legal non immigrants are taking a huge bite out of IT employment. The end result though is still under 5% ... however I am seriously suffering none the less. Worse yet is offshoring. However I have noticed that off shoring entire development cycles tends to produce very inferior products, something as a maintenance guy I make a living out of. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by Paraquat on 10/17/12 at 09:21:14 5D767F6C71701E0 wrote:
Imagine the brainiac at Subway who let a snot rocket-esq blob of mucus drop from his nose into my sandwich. (I didn't eat it) Imagine the bank teller working late at night because I can't get to the bank during their "normal banking hours". Same deal with the post office. That could be a multi-million dollar idea. Someone who collects packages all hours of the night, promises to bring them to the post office, charges you, and then brings them during the day. I can't afford time off work to mail a package and those idiots are closed before I even leave work... and Pitney Bowes cornered that market. A combine doesn't put farm hands out of work. It lets them harvest faster and more efficiently. Expand the area and harvest more, faster. I go to self checkout all the time. I love it. I wish more stores had it. I go to Stop and Shop to buy groceries not talk to someone. --Steve |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/12 at 10:07:20 Charons points are on, but, unlike most of his posts, this one falls short of the mark. Look at Nafta & Gatt, thats where the Good $$ blue collar jobs went. The jobs that have been shot down by technology? Thats the price of progress. Robots on the line at the car plant, Numerically controlled machines in the machine shops, 1 guy can keep several machines putting out, ATM's, Now, Why did gas stations go self serve? Competition, pure & simple, people can stand to pump their own, usually. Most towns have a full serve station or 2, price on a gallon O gas in=s substantially higher, rich widows go there.Not enough of them to keep more than a couple o those stations afloat. The No Ethanol station is full serve. Price reflects it, too. OUr economy really started hurting shortly after Nafta, & everyone who had the Slightest inkling I knew was against it.,The majority of America was against it, Yet, our electeds Passed it,,& the single most intelligent president since Kennedy signed it. No way they didnt know what it would do,, NO WAY they didnt know,, |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/17/12 at 10:29:14 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
Nope ... farm state repug's pushed for nafta. Remember both houses of congress @ that time were in repug hands ... Newter Ging rich was speaker ... Nafta turned the mexican market for farm produce upside down. The subsidised, mechanised, high yield monsatan junk was dumped into mexico my friend ... Nice link to your favorite punching bag huh ... Nafta also got the illegals into the US, cos they dont have jobs in mexico. BTW mexico is having an egg shortage ... and they have always hated US eggs. They didn't like the flavor apparently. But now they are forced to use it ... he he ... monsatan strikes again. China is new mexico although, electronics was never going to mexico ... it was japanese, now its chinese. I dont think china is taking too much that japan and mexico have not already took. maybe they are, cos we are throwing away more ... the japanese junk of the 80's were not thrown away ... atleast not for 5-10 years. We now toss em a lot more. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/12 at 11:02:18 The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is signed into law by President Bill Clinton. Clinton said he hoped the agreement would encourage other nations to ... www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nafta-signed-into-law - Cached |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/17/12 at 13:47:22 3F2026213C3B0A3A0A32202C67550 wrote:
Correct ... that was after it was proposed and approved by 2 republican bodies of congress. Cool. Srinath |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/17/12 at 13:57:11 NAFTA, a trade pact between the United States, Canada, and Mexico, eliminated virtually all tariffs and trade restrictions between the three nations. The passage of NAFTA was one of Clinton's first major victories as the first Democratic president in 12 years--though the movement for free trade in North America had begun as a Republican initiative. You see JOG, Presidents dont write laws. they can veto them ... but in some cases that can be over ridden ... 99% of the BS that comes through our congress has both sides complicit in it. So dont lame Nafta on clinton, and dont blame bail out on Obama. Bushies did bail out, Obama followed it. Pug's sent nafta to clintstone's desk, he signed it. EOM, both sides are guilty. Cool. Srinath, |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/12 at 15:34:55 But, not only did Clinton sign it, he approved of it,. I blame Clinton for not fighting it. Not to say he wouldnt have been over ridden, IDK,( The question we have to ask ourselves is, were there votes enough to beat a veto,, & I dont even have a clue what the ratios were nor do I remember what kind of vote is required to over ride a Presidential veto) but he Did sign it, he didnt veto it & he didnt fight against it. He was every bit as wrong as the bubs who wrote it.,& Why did they do that? I dont remember what Their so called "reason" was for wanting it, but it was clearly a bad idea. Dont think for a second I have any love for the bubs, I dont, I have the none for the dems, either. I am 100% unimpressed with what comes out of DC. They are not doing what the C says they are to do & theyre doing what the C says they are NOT to do. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/18/12 at 05:50:17 5F4046415C5B6A5A6A52404C07350 wrote:
Clinton didn't have any power except to tell the fat chick chewing on his weiner ... "ooo baby that's it baby, that's good" However Nafta was not a 1 way to mexico deal ... manufacturing went to mexico, but so did subsidised farm products ... it helped the farmers @ the cost of the unions. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/12 at 20:16:05 Huhh? He had the power to veto it. He didnt, he supported it, it was a bad idea. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/18/12 at 20:22:10 322D2B2C31360737073F2D216A580 wrote:
You know I think nafta temporarily gave to the mexicans what has later been taken away by the chinese, however we are dumping subsidized corn permanently in mexico. Nafta was pro farm and anti union ... we freaking need to get all the caucus and primary garbage to the same day ... Iowa has an outsized role in picking the candidates. No one wants to start to run a primary campaign without Iowa ... Iowa victory gave romney the nomination, and the reversal of Iowa 3 weeks later did not matter. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/12 at 20:28:06 You think nafta was good for america? |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by srinath on 10/20/12 at 07:24:36 647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:
Nafta benefited farms. Especially the big farms. Read my post, I did not say it was good for america. I said it was pro-farm. It was pro Monsatan. There is a loooooooong way to go from there to being "good for america". Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Jobs and the economy... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/12 at 08:27:16 Im trying to get you to admit that Clinton should not have signed it, I cant understand your continued support for him doing that. |
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