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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Dial-a-Jet??? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1349838754 Message started by dmj13 on 10/09/12 at 20:12:33 |
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Title: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by dmj13 on 10/09/12 at 20:12:33 I ran a search and came up with nothing, so I figured I'd ask and see if anyone had experience. So, Dial-a-Jet: http://www.thunderproducts.com/dial_a_jet.htm Anyone use one? Heard of it? Think it's a horrible idea? Makes sense to me, but then again my first girlfriend in college made sense for a while, too. So did that last shot of tequila last Friday. I'm trying to avoid any more hard learned lessons. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/12 at 20:33:45 If you wanna avoid hard learned lessons, let me offr you one little point of wisdom.. Be VERY careful in the sand trap.. those rakes are Murder.. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by dmj13 on 10/09/12 at 20:35:28 I solved that problem years ago when I decided drinking beer was much more fun when I didn't do it while trying to play golf. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Dave on 10/10/12 at 04:30:23 I don't believe the Dial a Jet works all that well on a CV (Constant Velocity) carb. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by arteacher on 10/10/12 at 05:11:46 I have one and it works just fine. It does exactly what they say it does. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/12 at 06:10:39 The concept looks valid to me. However, I don't like the way they display a lack of understanding about mixture and temperature. It makes me wonder a bit about who wrote the description. Surely the inventor knows about the relationship between mixture and temperature. "Motorcyclists often discard their standard air filter and install a high flow air filter. This will upset the air to fuel ratio making the engine run even leaner and hotter. Custom exhaust systems are usually lower restriction which also causes the engine to run leaner and hotter. The combination of the high flow air filter and the low restriction exhaust system substantially alters fuel flow requirements, leaning the engine and raising the operating temperature." Leaning or richening the mixture lowers the combustion temp on either side of peak temp. That said, I am still intrigued by the idea. I wonder how hard it would be to take it one step further and hook it up to an oxygen sensor or something to automatically adjust the mixture,.. sort of like what a fuel injection system does. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by tarkm812 on 10/10/12 at 11:11:46 I was under the impression that a lean mixture will tend to be much hotter than optimal mixture. Yes? |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/12 at 11:13:23 2E3B283137626B685A0 wrote:
No. This is a common old wives' tale. Optimal mixtures create the most energy, and, therefore, the most heat. Mixtures leaner or richer than optimal create less energy and therefore less heat. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by tarkm812 on 10/10/12 at 11:19:14 Then this " old wives tale " is perpetuated everywhere. Anything I've ever read says lean = hotter. That said I am always open for being corrected. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by verslagen1 on 10/10/12 at 11:35:53 506E6578757875170 wrote:
No. This is a common old wives' tale. Optimal mixtures create the most energy, and, therefore, the most heat. Mixtures leaner or richer than optimal create less energy and therefore less heat. [/quote] This certainly is the case for a/c engines, but I wonder if it directly translates to m/c engines. You've told us how the engine loading is different, and I don't know whether the engines are muffled or not. I do know that under stock conditions on our bikes the pipe will turn purple, change the jet for a larger one and it'll only go gold. As our mixture goes lean, the mixtures fails to burn in the cylinder. This left over gas collects in the pipe and will burn later, some times very noticeably. 8-) This burning creates heat that may not exist in a/c engines as with the higher altitudes the back pressure is lower and the less oxygen is induced up the pipe. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Boule’tard on 10/10/12 at 11:42:27 The Dial-a-jet does not "sense" via a "sonic signal" that the mixture is too lean, and then "fill in the gaps" where you've left your jetting too lean.. that's BS. In my experience, the dial-a-jet is a brass tube that dumps more fuel (and some air, depending on where you set the dial) into the carb throat when intake velocity is high. With the stock CV (constant velocity) carb it probably won't do anything. With a VM36 or TM40, it is probably about like screwing in a larger main jet, with the small advantage of being able to set the increase in the main jet size externally. Don't waste your money and don't be a lazy-ass. Just tune your bike with the correct main jet size. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Oldfeller on 10/10/12 at 12:16:56 Come on Gyro, both of us in that old discussion were getting our data from air cooled aircraft engines because the data existed (they adjust their mix ratios on the fly and they have head and plug and oil temp gages already set up). And by golly they have DATA for all that sorta stuff !!!! ..... and we can't have a good discussion without data, now can we? Same sources said later on that running lean under heavy loads could cause a holed piston and require an emergency landing (you do remember me pointing that out, don't you?) Quite a bit of difference between running at steady state (aircraft engines run steady rpms and steady loads at cruising speeds) while your are cabin fiddling with your optimum mix ratios .... ..... and a motorcycle engine that never ever has a steady load or a steady rpm at any time on the particular road that you are on. Motorcycles live in the world of trade offs, and I think one trade off that we do is to run mebbe a little leaner lower down (cruising range) and nominal to rich on the WFO throttle setting to make sure we don't damage our engines under heavy loads. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Serowbot on 10/10/12 at 12:28:33 To me,.. Dial-a jet,.. just adds one more complexity to deal with and to break down... KISS... Keep it simple, Stu... :-?... ... and,.. way over priced... |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Dave on 10/10/12 at 12:31:51 Well that may change what I have always thought about engines being lean/rich. I thought that when an engine ran too lean and was burning exhaust valves, spark plug insulators and piston crowns....that it was running with the most heat of combustion. And that when you richened the mixture up a bit the engine ran a little cooler and nothing burned. It may be that when the engine is too lean the left over air/oxygen can burn the hot metal away.......as there is no fuel left to burn. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/12 at 12:44:08 Oldfeller said, "they adjust their mix ratios on the fly and they have head and plug and oil temp gages already set up" And what do those gauges show when the mixtures are changed? They show lower temps at rich mixtures and lower temps at lean mixtures and highest temps at 14.7. In our motor, the carb is a fairly crude instrument, compared to computer operated FI systems. The best we can do is operate as lean as possible while still having a smooth running motor. If I were messing around with jets, I would start with an obviously lean situation,.. running not so smooth, and then richen it in gradual increments until things smoothed out. If running lean were risky, and caused engine damage, why would those many thousands of light-plane operators, whose air-cooled engines are worth a year's pay for most us, intentionally operate lean of peak? They do that because the engines last longer, due to cleaner burning and lower temps. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by tarkm812 on 10/10/12 at 13:02:59 So you are saying with our engine running lean will operate cooler? Running very lean is even cooler? I do not believe that. There may be more to it for a/c engines but I will stick to lean = hotter for this application. I can be convinced otherwise with more info but the heat that damages valves/pistons is from a lean mixture. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by dmj13 on 10/10/12 at 13:53:37 Got it. Put a Dial-a-Jet on my airplane. Cool. Wait. What? I think I'll just stick to jetting my bike the old way. I figured if it looked that easy it probably wouldn't be worth trying. Not for that price, anyway. As far as lean vs rich mixtures- I'm understanding that if I run too rich- backfires in the exhaust pipe. But what Verslagen said was (if I got it) that running lean also equals unburned mixture, which also means backfires...? I got lost somewhere. Rich= extra fuel= fuel burned in exhaust. Lean= extra air= ....air burned in exhaust? I thought I understood carbs- I've rebuilt the one in my 66 Mustang a couple times- but now I'm confused. darn liberal arts degree screws me AGAIN. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/12 at 18:57:31 2F26217A784B0 wrote:
Just start off so lean it runs rough,.. then richen it in little steps until it runs smoothly. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/12 at 18:57:53 495C4F5650050C0F3D0 wrote:
okay |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by dmj13 on 10/11/12 at 04:22:57 Thanks, Gyrobob. Notice you're in Newnan. I used to spend some time up there with the Nat'l Guard company located there. B 2-121 Infantry. One of my very good friends is the company commander. Great town, lots of support. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Savage_Rob on 10/11/12 at 15:55:24 Since Amal makes the necessary parts for the carb, I had this wild idea about changing out the necessary parts to make my bike compatible with higher ethanol mixtures and the Dial-A-Jet was part of that scheme. Be EXTREMELY careful when tightening any screws. Part of the plastic split on mine. I abandoned the idea and don't use it anymore. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by LANCER on 10/11/12 at 16:32:01 0D3F283F393B010C313C5E0 wrote:
Did you call Lonn at Thunder Products about the split plastic ? I think he would be able to help you; perhaps replace the damaged part. |
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Title: Re: Dial-a-Jet??? Post by Savage_Rob on 10/12/12 at 15:46:20 313C333E382F6F6A5D0 wrote:
Did you call Lonn at Thunder Products about the split plastic ? I think he would be able to help you; perhaps replace the damaged part. [/quote] I honestly figured I'd just be told it was my fault and I was already so pissed off at the time I would not have remained calm, so I just didn't even try. I still don't know if it was just a cheap piece of crap part or if I wasn't gentle enough with it. I don't generally overtorque things but it is always possible. I probably should've tried but I'm sure it's FAR too late now. It's been years. |
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