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Message started by HondaLavis on 10/08/12 at 22:36:33

Title: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by HondaLavis on 10/08/12 at 22:36:33

I know, I'm nothing but trouble...

So the wife and I were on an evening ride. On the way back from dinner, we stop to fill up on gas. At this point, everything for the past 50 miles has been normal. After filling up and leaving, I noticed this weird noise. I would describe it as a resonating "OOOOOOH" type of noise. My wife noticed it as well, but she called it more of a whine. I heard it from up front, but she thought she heard it in the back. It definitely only happened when I leaned around 40 MPH +/- about 3 MPH. It was significantly more prevalent during a left lean than a right one. Different pavement didn't seem to matter.

I stopped at the next gas station, shut the bike off and looked at everything. Brakes appear normal, all spokes have tension and are fine. Tire PSI was 30 in the front, 37 in the back, so all normal. I didn't see any abnormal wear.

I may have a chance to go for a ride with my helmet cam tomorrow before work. If so, I'll do that so I can post up the noise.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by verslagen1 on 10/08/12 at 22:39:33

wheel bearings problem need grease or are ready to go bad on you.

check the axle torque too.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by HondaLavis on 10/08/12 at 23:09:29

WOAH!!! I hope my wheel bearings aren't going out at only 4,500 miles!! The only way to grease these bearings is to remove the wheel from the bike and repack the bearings while they are still on the wheel, correct?

I checked axle torque for both front and back. Front and rear both passed above minimum TQ spec. I made sure to have the pinch nut loosened while checking the front so that it wasn't holding the axle in place.

Thanks for the response, Verslagen. Last thing I need is a bearing to fail at a rather inopportune moment. :o

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Cavi Mike on 10/08/12 at 23:16:09

I'd guess wheel bearing whine as well but I'm honestly thinking you are nit-picking way too much. This is a very simple carbureted bike.

Remember back before zoloft/prozac/ritalin/etc when we called these differences between us "traits" or "characteristics" not problems? I have a feeling that's what you're doing with your bike. You're treating your bike like these traits are problems. They're not problems.

People are riding around on 25 year-old Savages with original wheel bearings so if you are complaining about almost unnoticeable throttle hesitation or a little bearing whine on a cool day; the problem is you. Leave it alone or get a different bike because clearly this isn't the bike for you.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by HondaLavis on 10/08/12 at 23:34:44

I see where you're coming from, Mike. If the bike had been doing this for the past 2K miles I've rode since summer started, I'd call it a characteristic. Shoot, If it had done it all day yesterday and all night tonight since we had our cold snap this weekend, I'd consider it a trait. The fact is that while character traits are unique, they also have constants.

My headlight rattling and buzzing around mid-range is a trait. The funny squeak my intake makes when I whack on the throttle is a trait. The poof on shutdown that I STILL have is a trait. These things have always happened, I know when they happen and how and why. The new, odd noise that starts at the end of a ride is not an existing characteristic; it's something new. You'll notice that in my first post I NEVER said the word problem. That's because I don't know whether or not it is. That is why I'm here, my friend. Is this a symptom of something that needs to be addressed, or is this the beginning of a new characteristic?

Granted, I AM a bit paranoid... but that comes from working on aircraft and seeing things fail and break all the time.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by J C Stokes on 10/09/12 at 02:59:13

Even if the brakes appear normal, check the pads.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Charon on 10/09/12 at 05:52:31

Yes indeed, tires can "sing." I think you are hearing the noise made by the tire treads. That it changes when you lean tells me the tires are getting worn flat in the middle. That the noise differs depending on which way you lean tells me the flat spot in the middle isn't precisely in the middle, also normal. When you lean you are getting onto a less worn part of the tread, and the tread pattern on the sides differs a bit from the pattern in the middle anyway. That it seems to happen only at a certain speed tells me there is probably something on the bike itself that seems to amplify a certain frequency, sort of like the speedo buzz at certain engine speeds.

Tire noise is made by the edges of the tread grooves hitting the pavement. Car tires are usually made with tread patterns that vary in spacing as they go around the tire, to break up the noise and avoid resonances. Particularly obnoxious examples of tire noise usually come from jacked-up pickups or Jeeps with knobby tires running on pavement.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Paraquat on 10/09/12 at 06:12:09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJgCLq4Qo6A

--Steve

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Routy on 10/09/12 at 06:58:49

Gears whine, bad bearings growl, tires........can do most anything.

Its tires in a turn.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Pine on 10/09/12 at 07:04:33

wish I could offer a suggestion.... but I do like your avatar!

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by WD on 10/09/12 at 07:46:24

Gotta go with Charon, it's the tread depth on the tire shoulders. By 4500 miles there should be an easily noticed difference in tread depth from the center outward. Cruisers don't use as much of the tire as sport bikes do, they tend to lean a whole lot less frequently/aggressively.

And the older/drier/harder the tire shoulders get, the noisier they tend to be.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by HondaLavis on 10/09/12 at 09:40:39

Tire tread definitely makes a lot of sense. Given that they are 11 yr old stock tires that I've been delaying replacing, I could definitely see that. That's kinda what I was hoping for, but I wanted to check with the old-timers to make sure I'm not missing anything important... Like a loose axle!

Thanks, guys.

6B52555E4F54493B0 wrote:

wish I could offer a suggestion.... but I do like your avatar!

Yeah, don't you just want to help her get her vest on? She just wants to ride! ;)

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/12 at 09:48:06

Pickups with 6 ply tires sure "sing",,

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Cavie on 10/09/12 at 18:14:17

I'm gonna say belt wine. Mine does.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Digger on 10/17/12 at 19:58:49

032821322F2E400 wrote:

+1

This has happened on every street bike I've owned in the last 40 years and 350,000 miles.......

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Cavie on 10/18/12 at 05:40:26

[quote author=5374757F7A577A6D72681B0 link=1349760993/0#11 date=1349800839]Tire tread definitely makes a lot of sense. Given that they are 11 yr old stock tires that I've been delaying replacing, I could definitely see that. That's kinda what I was hoping for, but I wanted to check with the old-timers to make sure I'm not missing anything important... Like a loose axle!

Thanks, guys.

Your riding on 11 year old tires?????? (OF deleted the rest of the strongly worded comment)

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by HondaLavis on 10/18/12 at 06:39:14

They only had 1600 miles on them when I bought the bike, the cracking isn't very deep at all, and the bike was stored inside all of the time. The deterioration really hasn't been that bad for how old they really are. I still plan on replacing them this winter, though.

Could be worse. On the Honda SOHC4 forum, I've seen some people ride on 35+ year old tires! :o

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Oldfeller on 10/18/12 at 09:28:07

The Honda SOHC4 forum has folks on it that restore old Hondas to "factory correct" and they will spend a lot of money on original and authentic. And this includes the exact correct tire that was shipped on that year.

I rode up to this past Dragon with a guy named Bill that took a beater 550 honda four all the way back to "factory correct" and the bike now sits on a dealer's showroom floor next to the offices as a very pretty floor ornament.

Many many man hours spent searching out parts, and he admits he has more in the restoration than the original bike cost new.

Some folks get off on that stuff, us, we tend to ride our Savages.

==========

There is a legal age limit on tires of 3 years, you can't sell them at retail past that point. Say add 2-3 years to that to get you a recommended max useage life ..... what 5-6 years total? Not really stated as such, but some use it as a rule of thumb just like a tire was a jug of milk or something.

If you were tubeless, you would not be able to get a tire that is severely age cracked to hold air very well.

However, our tires are tube type tires and the tube holds in the air so we have heard periodically about some very age cracked tires being used up by some folks.

The gripping rubber ages like the cracked sidewall rubber, so you can expect an age cracked tire to be somewhat reduced in wet gripping force and cornering force. You don't see cracks on the thread portion as the rubber is constantly wearing off the tire (cracks never have a chance to form on the tread).

Old "expired out of date" tires do increase your wet weather and cornering risks in some vague fashion.

HOWEVER, anyone who has actually worn out a Metzler ME 880 H series front tire has likely been riding for YEARS and YEARS and years on a technically out of date tire (yup, they last that durn long).

==========

Reality here on the list

We oldtimers snap up them good Motorcycle Superstore 3 year "age out" sales all the time on bike tires. I bought multiples last time when a really good sale came by on rear tires and the last one left from that buy was like 6 years old when it came out of the AC'd upper closet and went on a bike.

It looked new on the side walls when it came off the bike a year and a half later. But it was stored correctly all those years (tires like the same temperatures that you do).

Reality here on the list is we tend ride those old tires until the tread is plum gone ....

Reality is ....

:)

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Drifter on 10/18/12 at 09:42:40

Mine always sing on the road again sometimes life is a highway... :)

Yep always a smartarse...

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by verslagen1 on 10/18/12 at 10:00:17

My bike doesn't know the words... it only hums. ;D

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by HondaLavis on 10/18/12 at 10:18:44

Fair enough. You get all kinds over there. People who want factory correct, bobbers, choppers, cafe, and just plain running bikes. I still can't wait until I have enough money to finish building my CB500 so I can RIDE it!! Don't worry, I made sure to put fresh tires and tubes on that one. :P

I knew going into this that the tires are old and need replacing. Like I said, It's not like I plan on wearing them down to the nub.

Could be worse; I could be shaving them down smooth and using shoe polish to fill in the cracks, Burt Monro style. ;D

Oh, and no offense taken from Cavie's statement. I've got thick skin, AND I'm wearing my big boy pants!

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by verslagen1 on 10/18/12 at 10:29:57

644342484D604D5A455F2C0 wrote:

I still can't wait until I have enough money to finish building my CB500 so I can RIDE it!! Don't worry, I made sure to put fresh tires and tubes on that one. :P

I got a '71, fresh rubber was the 1st thing, now I'm rebuilding the front caliper and I need to replace the brake arm pivot and spring that the PO lost. then I'll be registering it.

Title: Re: This is NOT a trick question: Can tires SING?!
Post by Digger on 10/19/12 at 20:52:58

4446514E42270 wrote:

.....Your riding on 11 year old tires??????....

Actually, I'm still using the original front tire on mine (see signature block) and it's over 12 years old (mold date of July 2000)! It's about down to the wear bars, though, and I've got a new one on order as we speak.

No cracking at all, still works fine......