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Message started by NicholasTanguma on 09/28/12 at 21:04:23

Title: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem?
Post by NicholasTanguma on 09/28/12 at 21:04:23

From what I read here on the forum some folks seem to have dying swine at both front and rear brakes, others just have squealing at front or back.

I know forums vastly tend to magnify small issues because if your motorcycle isn't having problems you don't really have much about which to post complaints. But the brake squeal thing seems to come up a lot around here.

It can't be that EVERY LS650 have the brake squeal problem, right?

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 21:05:39

Not every one,

..... just the vast majority .....

.... on the OEM pads and shoes certainly, but not so much on the recommended replacement pads and shoes ....

.... kinda sorta, anyways

:)

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by NicholasTanguma on 09/28/12 at 21:13:29

All the threads I have read on the replacements that have proven to be noiseless also state they require significantly more force at the lever. I don't want that.

If I remember correctly, Oldfeller, you had a lengthy thread some time ago about testing EBC red pads.

Have we ever found noiseless replacements front and rear that don't also make us work harder not to crash into the car in front of us?

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 21:29:03

SBC pads require "similar to stock" force to get same same braking.

(but they eat into your rotor much worse than EBCs or stock pads)

You read the threads ..... you already know all of this stuff.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 09/28/12 at 21:33:31

Look for "kevlar" pads. they don't say this any more due to it's a brand name.

My favorite is "X" brand, I would say it's very close to stock feel, w/no squeal.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by NicholasTanguma on 09/28/12 at 21:44:47

392A3D3C232E282A217E4F0 wrote:

Look for "kevlar" pads. they don't say this any more due to it's a brand name.

My favorite is "X" brand, I would say it's very close to stock feel, w/no squeal.

Got a linky for X brand, Verslagen? I just Googled "X brand brake pads," but I'm not seeing them. Is X an EBC item, perhaps?

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Digger on 09/28/12 at 22:19:35

FWIW, my Savage (see signature block) has never had the squeal.

I've had OEM, Ferodo Platinum, and EBC Organic pads in the front.....never any noise.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Cavi Mike on 09/28/12 at 22:34:24

06212B202724293B1C29262F3D2529480 wrote:

[quote author=392A3D3C232E282A217E4F0 link=1348891464/0#4 date=1348893211]Look for "kevlar" pads. they don't say this any more due to it's a brand name.

My favorite is "X" brand, I would say it's very close to stock feel, w/no squeal.

Got a linky for X brand, Verslagen? I just Googled "X brand brake pads," but I'm not seeing them. Is X an EBC item, perhaps?[/quote]
They're probably using Twaron which is very similar to Kevlar. Twaron's code name is Fiber-X.

\http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-SUZUKI-LS-650-Savage-Front-Brakes-Pads-86-88-PN-FA106X-/300784137393?hash=item460821b4b1&item=300784137393&pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 09/28/12 at 22:42:02

these are the ones I bought last, haven't used them yet.
the "x" brand pads are still on there... after a year?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-FRONT-Brake-Pads-LS-650-LS650-Savage-Boulevard-/200556101100?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true

here are the x brand

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Front-Brake-Pads-Suzuki-LS650-LS-650-Savage-NP41A-87-99-/370513468462?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564452dc2e&vxp=mtr

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Boofer on 09/29/12 at 10:56:06

I use Vesrah pads and have Emgo shoes in the rear, I think. The Vesrahs don't squeal, but the rear brakes do. I just get up above 40mph or so and use the rear brake only as hard as I can safely. The squeal goes away for weeks, and then I have to do it again. No problem, really. :)

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Gyrobob on 09/30/12 at 05:14:36

This place explains a lot about these issues, and has a slew of alternatives available.

http://www.cyclebrakes.com/index.html

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Gyrobob on 09/30/12 at 05:58:36

If all you want to do is stop the squeal, try these ideas. Using these techniques, I have stopped every squeal I ever had in cars and motorcycles. (from something I posted last year)

------------------------------
The squealing is from a resonance of high frequency vibrations in the pads/calipers when they contact the rotor. Because of the job the disc brake has to do, this squeal is common, even though Suzuki engineers probably made a large effort to prevent it.

There are several things to try. Replacing pads with a lot of material left on them is usually not a sensible option,… just a waste of money.

The idea is to change the resonance of the parts that vibrate, therefore pushing the resonance out of the range that tends to create a squeal. Here are some ways:

-- Use the lube typically supplied with replacement pads. This is a high-heat lube that goes between the pads and the piston that changes the resonance frequency. Use sparingly.
-- Use that same lube on all the parts that support the caliper that allow the caliper to move back and forth. Again, use sparingly.
-- Sometimes the pads, or even the rotors, can acquire a glaze that tends to make a squeal. Lightly scouring one or both surfaces can help here. Use 400 grit sandpaper (wet), or rubbing compound, steel wool, chore girl, comet cleanser, etc. You don’t want any scratches, just a satin finish.
-- Chamfer the edges of the pads.
--- This changes the angle between the edge of the pad and the rotor surface, which changes how the pad tries to "dig in" to the rotor.
--- Chamfering the leading edge of the pad is sufficient. This will change the resonance frequency one way or another.
--- If chamfering the leading edge stops the squeal, it may come back, say, 4,000 miles later when the pads wear down enough to erase the chamfer. Just chamfer it again.
-- Clean the surfaces completely, then put a very thin layer of RTV on the back of the pad where it contacts the piston in the caliper. Also put a very thin layer on the surface of the piston that contacts the pad. Let it dry for a few hours.
--- By "very thin layer” I mean put a little on your finger, rub it on the surface. Then wipe just about all of it off with a clean finger.
--- You don’t want any actual cushion here,…. that will make the brakes feel spongy. You want only enough to change the resonance of these two mating surfaces,.. just residue, not an actual layer.
--- Make sure you use something with a high heat capability. Normal RTV will work,.. hi-temp RTV might be better. It's cheap.
-- Cut out a piece of coke can metal shaped like the back of the disc brake pad, and insert that piece between the pad and the piston. That metal is pretty tough stuff,... thin, but tough. I also use it for shims when aligning gyrocopter rotors. Sounds goofy, but it does change/negate the resonances, so it can eliminate the squeal.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by WD on 09/30/12 at 09:20:20

Copper spray from any of the major gasket gunk makers. Caliper bolts, back of pads, piston face. Brake shoe pivots all need to be kept lubed as well. Coating the back of the shoes can help.

If you can find Emgo brake pads/shoes in the YELLOW packages, they are real deal asbestos linings. They don't squeal. Really hard to find though...

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by ralfyguy on 09/30/12 at 10:29:56

I have no squeal when braking, just when rolling slow and my caliper won't release completely. I have tried everything. I already mentioned that in a different thread. I use the pads that Verslagen suggested.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/03/12 at 12:50:21

Haven't had any issues with my ceramic pads though I'd heard they could sometimes squeal too.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by grungeant on 10/04/12 at 10:14:27

7644534442407A774A47250 wrote:

Haven't had any issues with my ceramic pads though I'd heard they could sometimes squeal too.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/05/12 at 14:24:22

5A4F48535A585C53493D0 wrote:

[quote author=7644534442407A774A47250 link=1348891464/0#14 date=1349293821]Haven't had any issues with my ceramic pads though I'd heard they could sometimes squeal too.

Whenever I put ceramic pads on a car that wasn't sent from the factory with them I noticed they were harder on the rotors, and I assume generate more heat when stopping because it seems the rotors would warp alot easier and faster.[/quote]
That may or may not be true on the LS650 as well. I changed out my stock rotor to a new EBC rotor shortly after switching to ceramics, so I never saw a real difference. They don't seem to be any problem for the EBC rotor though.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Jen on 09/06/13 at 10:47:08

I just bought an '06 S40 with brake squeal and from this forum, got the impression that this was normal. I changed my front brakes to EBC organic pads and the problem went away completely.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Rush-rks on 09/06/13 at 12:21:25

280F030E0F111607070C620 wrote:

I just bought an '06 S40 with brake squeal and from this forum, got the impression that this was normal. I changed my front brakes to EBC organic pads and the problem went away completely.

I bought the EBC organic too (black ones) and the squeek came back after few days..sanded the rotor took the glaze off few days squeek came back took the pads back off resanded roter and chamfered pads re lubed them sqeek came back again. It stops fine just makes noise tired of messing them just living with the noise. :-?

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by engineer on 09/06/13 at 18:45:44

The EBC organics ended all brake squeal on my Savage but I did lubricate the back side where the pads make contact with the piston and caliper per the suggestion of one of the guys on this forum.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by HAPPYDAN on 09/07/13 at 08:51:25

I have a 2012 with 2000+ miles, and no squeal from either wheel yet. Maybe I'm just lucky. :)

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Grayowl on 09/08/13 at 07:48:57

I have had set of EBC (FA106) composite pads on the front of my bike for the last 600 miles or so and the squeal has gone away. I did cover the back of the pad backing plate with a very thin layer of anti-seize when I installed them.

No real difference in the handle force need to stop, seems to stop a little better with the EBC over the stock pads.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Rush-rks on 09/09/13 at 07:08:04

0A3F2C34223A217F7D7C7C4D0 wrote:

That is the ones I put on mine. They squeel on me ususally first few brakes and then at low revolutions. It might be all the friggin humidity we have around here from the wet summer we've had. ::)

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Gyrobob on 09/09/13 at 07:40:22

I have no squeal. My buddy Jud (partner in the Double RYCA Build) has none either.
-- I think I have stock Suzuki pads.
-- His bike has lots of miles on it, and the pads are still in good shape, so they have most likely been replaced. I don't know what pads are on his bike.

See "Brake Squeal Cure" in Technical Documents/Reference at

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1371822260

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by oceantransistor on 08/17/17 at 21:36:58

I have these on my bike now and I'm getting major squeal right before stopping and right before rolling away.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-V-Series-Brake-Pads-FA106V-for-86-04-Suzuki-LS650-Savage-Applications-/311393444315?hash=item48807ee1db

Has anyone tried these brake shims and do they do the job?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBS-Brake-Pad-Shims-9500-PU/401205753348?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Thank you!

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/17 at 22:45:27

I can't recommend anything but "organic" or kevlar pads.

as far as the shims... haven't used them, but the pads will have to be half worn out for them to fit.
there's not much pad and no extra room.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Dave on 08/18/17 at 04:45:41

45494F4B445E584B445943595E45582A0 wrote:

I am with Versy.....the EBC organics work very well on the Savage. They give good brake feel, they don't make noise, and they are easy on the rotor. I really don't know why you would want to use anything else.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by rong on 08/18/17 at 11:04:04

If I'm looking correctly, the brakes that that Versi and Dave suggest don't fit the model year of my bike. I have a 2015, and according to the links, the brakes don't fit the newer model years.

Open to your thoughts.

Ron G

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by verslagen1 on 08/18/17 at 11:47:49

405D5C555E53475F320 wrote:

regardless of what the mfr says, which at this point is not the mfr but a reseller. the calipers and disc are the same as day one thru today. the pad is the same. unless for some unknown reason you actually got an upgrade prepare for some natural catastrophe. :-?

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by stewmills on 08/18/17 at 11:57:56

5A47464F44495D45280 wrote:

If I'm looking correctly, the brakes that that Versi and Dave suggest don't fit the model year of my bike. I have a 2015, and according to the links, the brakes don't fit the newer model years.

Look closer, at the bottom of the ebay ad: 8-)

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by ohiomoto on 08/19/17 at 04:42:18

I have EBC organic pads. They squeal like a tiny pig when I use the brake lightly. It's just pad vibration and it doesn't bother me one bit. If they are loud under heavy braking and you notice a loss of power, then they are probably contaminated.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Steve H on 08/21/17 at 16:20:16

my back ones squeal like crazy the first 2 times I use them that day. They don't make a sound after that. The fronts never make any noise.

I'm sure the back shoes are stock. Not sure what's on the front. They were on there when I got it and still have good pad on them.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by JLC on 08/21/17 at 19:36:13

No squeals yet on my 2015 S40, stock brakes.

Title: Re: Does EVERY LS650 Have The Brake Squeal Problem
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 08/22/17 at 05:30:03

The short answer is "no", brake squeal is not common or normal. Here's the long answer...

If you have brake squeal, then something is wrong. Not wrong like don't ride your bike, but wrong none the less. Brake squeal is a byproduct of vibration - it's your pads vibrating like a guitar string. The pads should be loose when there is no pressure applied to the brakes, but once brake force is applied there should be sufficient pressure to transfer the force from the caliper piston to the brake pad without vibration.

More than likely the back of the brake pad - where it makes contact with the piston - isn't flat. Look at the pads for an indication of uneven wear. Apply some "anti-squeal" grease to help dampen the vibration, or change to a different pad. Less likely is an uneven surface on the piston or a piston that isn't being driven straight from the caliper. If this is the cause of the squeal then the caliper will need to be rebuilt.