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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
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Message started by stewmills on 09/26/12 at 17:14:05

Title: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by stewmills on 09/26/12 at 17:14:05

I changed to Rotella T6 a few days ago and the only thing I can't seem to understand is that getting 5th gear seems very hard now. One moderator here mentioned I may need to adjust the clutch after changing to T6. I double checked the handlebar adjustment (not on the case) and tightened it slightly to where there is a "nickel' width gap with the slack out using very light rubber band pressure on the lever. I thought tightening it up would help, but I feel no difference other than the clutch engaging in the last 3rd of my handle release versus in the first 3rd to half where it was before my tightening it...which I don't like because the friction zone is so far out now that it seems to have no "easing into it" rather more of an on or off now. I have little hands so the friction zone being so far out is uncomfortable and annoying.

I don't want to have "Rotella T6 remorse" but this is bugging me. Do I need to make further adjustments on the case lever down on the right-hand side of the bike as well as the lever to make getting into 5th easier, and if so, which direction should they be adjusted. Or, should I put the handlebar adjustment back where it was so my friction zone starts at the 1/3 area and keep riding for a few more days and this should ease up after the bike gets used to the new fluids?

Thanks.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by Serowbot on 09/26/12 at 18:18:09

Don't know what the solution is,... but I don't think T6 is the problem...

It shouldn't make that much difference,... just a little smoother sounding snick, as it goes into gear...

You might check that the shift linkage rod hasn't bent... that's been known to happen...

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by 12Bravo on 09/26/12 at 18:18:52

Hard shifting into 5th is a common quirk of the Savage/S40. Mine has been difficult to shift into 5th since day 1 no matter what type/brand of oil used. I double shift when going into 5th.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by stewmills on 09/26/12 at 18:23:00

6771667B63767B60140 wrote:

You might check that the shift linkage rod hasn't bent... that's been known to happen...

Is this internal or external to the transmission? I can tell you for sure that nothing external is bent if you are referring to the rod down on the right side.

Odd, very odd....Never had this issue before changing fluids. Bike only has ~1100 miles and I baby it something terrible. :o

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by 12Bravo on 09/26/12 at 18:28:26

No need to baby it. :D It is a common problem no matter what oil you use. Serowbot is talking about the adjustment rod on the shifter itself. If it is bent, it will cause problems (usually shifting in all gears if bent). I doubt it is the oil. Mine has been hard to shift into fifth since brand new (false neutral between 4th and 5th) Do a search on here about it.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by rfw2003 on 09/26/12 at 18:34:39

When was the last time you lubed the pivot point on the shifter lever? 5th gear as has been said is always been a little bit harder to go into but if your shift lever pivot is getting dry it can make it a real bugger trying to get it into 5th.

R.F.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by stewmills on 09/26/12 at 18:40:36

Ok...brain fart. The shift linkage down there on the...hmmmmmm...LEFT where you.......well....SHIFT!!!

I checked and it's all buttoned up and straight. I will throw some lube on it and see if it eases up any over the next few rides. Just odd that it didn't seem to be doing this before the fluid change, but anything mechanical can act up at any time. I agree and have a hard time thinking it is fluid related.

Thanks for the feedback folks!

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by Routy on 09/26/12 at 20:21:58

What happens if you shift it w/o the clutch ? Just back off the throttle a touch while shifting 5th. I'd bet it shifts perfectly !

At any rate, its not the oil !

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/12 at 21:07:15

Give Routy's idea a shot..
Upshifting w/ a slightly bent shift rod? No biggie,, thats pulling on it,

4th to 5th is where to start learning the clutchless shift anyway,,accelerating pretty good in 4th,
get the toe ready to come up, slap the gas closed & jack the toe at the same time & gas it, as long as you lead the action with the wrist, youll win it,

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by Oldfeller on 09/26/12 at 21:29:51

Clutch adjustment at the handlebar should yield at least a nickle of lever gap and it should start first light engagement around 1/4 of the way out and when you are under power you should be able to actuate about 1/4 of the way in before the clutch starts to disengage (slips).

All amounts are approximate and depend on the chrome lever on the cases being in between the marks.

We all have our preferences, but from what you are discribing you may have gone a little too far in your handlbar clutch adjustment.

============================

5th is the funkiest shifting of the gears, I find that when mine gets stubborn that if I put mild pressure on the upstroke, then clutch it in and hold that mild pressure while I let the clutch out that I can make the shift just about every time. I can feel it when it finally moves, too. The dogs have to find each other and engage, and in the mild ratio changeover from 4th to 5th that takes a bit of time to accomplish.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by stewmills on 09/27/12 at 11:03:56

UPDATE.

So this morning I adjusted the hand clutch back where the friction zone is engaging somewhere in the first 1/3-ish on my release which is more comfortable. I also greased the two shifter linkage joints under the little black booties. I hit 5th a few times on the way to the office this morning and back at lunch and so far it drops right in 5th like it was doing before.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by rfw2003 on 09/27/12 at 11:21:45

glad it's working for ya right again.

As for the lube point that is a good place to lube every now and then as well, the point I was talking about is where the shift lever attaches to the frame. That point is open to the elements and just a time or 2 in the rain or a few puddles and the motor oil they use and suggest for lubing that point gets washed out pretty quickly.

R.F.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by stewmills on 09/27/12 at 17:14:12

62766722202023100 wrote:

Got it. I will throw a little juice on there too :-?

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by Boofer on 09/27/12 at 20:35:16

77740434273029460 wrote:

Hard shifting into 5th is a common quirk of the Savage/S40. Mine has been difficult to shift into 5th since day 1 no matter what type/brand of oil used. I double shift when going into 5th.

Mine has always required a "two part" shift into fifth. It's not slow or uncertain...just a second little click upward. My bike seems a little rough on the gears shifting clutchless, but fifth is no problem. I started out with Castrol Syn and went to Rotella Dino. Over 14,000 miles doing the same thing on my 2001. Don't even notice it now. :)

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by ToesNose on 09/28/12 at 04:15:51

After switching to T6 I no longer had trouble getting into 1st, no longer had to do "The Stomp". It also eliminated the need for the 4th to 5th double pump for me, and also does clutchless shifts smoothly now which I'm happy about ;)

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by Savage_Rob on 10/03/12 at 12:41:05

Yeah, I bent that linkage rod on mine once and downshifting became more difficult. Then stomping on it just bent it more and made it worse. I bought a new rod and kept the old as a spare by straightening it and sliding a piece of steel tubing over it and then brazing it into place. The spare is stronger than the original now.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by 07s40scotty on 10/03/12 at 22:13:53

I use T6 in my 2007 with no shifting problems except into 1st- but only if I dont let her warm up. I went to T6 when I got the bike ( I've put 4000ish miles on it) the guy who owned it before me said he used suzuki oil. I try to keep the shift rod lubed by usein spray type chain lube- works for me

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/03/12 at 22:32:46

You mite get longer service interval out of white lithium spray. Thats what I use on car hinges. IF you lube a hinge on a car, dont lube the surface of the roller or the face of the arm that contacts it, That will allow the arm to slide on the roller & cut a flat spot on it,, then it wont roll, ever..

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by ToesNose on 10/04/12 at 04:39:11

3E397D3A3E7D6D617A7A770E0 wrote:

Scotty try rolling her alittle before going into first ;)

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/04/12 at 05:52:59

In Neutral, clutch lever out, transmission guts are spinning. Ott go into 1st easy. Mite clunk pretty good, but it otta go right on in,

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by Todd James on 10/04/12 at 08:26:07

My '07 S40 shifts into 1st gear easier if I slightly release
and re-engage the clutch lever first. As Justin says, this
spins the gears a little bit so the dogs will engage.
This is much easier and works better than pushing the
bike forward and back.

Title: Re: Hard to get 5th gear after going to T6
Post by stewmills on 10/04/12 at 10:36:57

416A666E785F646F6F0B0 wrote:

Same here. If I stop and am in neutral I always release the clutch once before trying to go down into 1st. Makes a big difference for me.

I also lubed the pivot joints on my shifting rod as well as where the shift lever pivots on the frame bolt. Seems to have helped things feel a little smoother.