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Message started by caveman on 09/25/12 at 20:09:09

Title: got an oil leak
Post by caveman on 09/25/12 at 20:09:09

new rider here, just bought my 97 savage in may, its my first bike and i love it. so as far as i know im the 3rd owner, bike was super clean when i bought it, you can tell it was taken care of. so the bikes been running great but like my title says i now have an oil leak. its a few drops here and there so i dont know how seriouse this is. i just noticed it last night but i think i now how it started. so two weeks ago i rode the bike in a parade, wich was a ton of fun, but by the end of it the bike overheated and turned off on me and wouldnt turn back on, luckly i was close enough to a relatives house that i walked the bike and stored it in there garage, whent back for it a few days later and rode it home. there was no oil leak till last night. i belive i damaged a gasket when the bike overheated and the leak started when i took the bike for a ride last night and went on the highway. this is my first bike and im not sure what to do, i would prefer to learn how to fix it my slef but dont know were to start. any advice????????

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Gyrobob on 09/25/12 at 20:42:03

First thing to do is make sure you have enough oil.

Then, clean off the whole motor, and dry it off. Then take it for a short ride, and use a really good flashlight to find the leak. If you can't see the leak, take it for another ride. Repeat.

Do that until you can see the leak.

It might be nearly nothing. Maybe the leak was always there, and it just showed up now.

Anyway, it's silly to do much discussing until you find where the leak originates.

Good luck.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Digger on 09/26/12 at 20:11:13

Sometimes an application of foot powder spray on a clean engine can help find small oil leaks.

I like Desenex (http://www.herbspro.com/shop/productdetail.asp?ptid=98908&utm_source=NexTag&utm_medium=Feed). Makes my engine smell good...... :D

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/12 at 20:59:15

If it got hot enough to shut down, the rubber plug in the head got Waaay toasty,,, Its a common problem, not caused by heat, but by people going in & torquing head bolts & , Ohh so foolishly following the book & not using gasket goo going back together,,
At least, Im thinkiing thats what it says,,Ive never done it.
Anyway, yea, check the oil, clean it up, if Digger says Desenex works, it works,
The plug leak has made some newbies believe they had blown the head gasket. It can sure look like it, so, if you find oil up high, dont wig out, its probably just the plug. Easy, cheap fix & itll put you in a good spot to learn a few things about the bike.
If you dont have a toolbox, Get one.

Hi, Im Eddie Chiles..

Not everyone is old enough to remember him,

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Digger on 09/27/12 at 21:29:31

The Desenex trick works well for places where you have line of sight to where the oil leak actually is (e.g. a clutch cover gasket leak, for instance). This really does not apply to the plug leak. However, like JOG says, if you clean things up, then see oil drips that originate from under the gas tank and high up top on the engine, it's probably that plug leak.....

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by caveman on 09/28/12 at 11:25:43

Fisrt of all thanks for the advice, I cleand all the oil off and when the bikes off no oil leaks out, I turned the bike on and found the leak in less than a min so I turned the bike off. As you can see its coming from the bolt, I thought maybe it was just loose so I carfully and slowly tried to tighten the bolt, it got snug but a nother 1/4 turn and it got loose, I thought maybe the bolt was stiped so I took it out and it looks fine, wat next???

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by verslagen1 on 09/28/12 at 11:54:01

Not good, that bolt hole supplies oil to the head.
Even though the bolt looks good, the threads may still be worn.
A new bolt 'could' fix it.
but a 5mm longer bolt may do a better job, just make sure it doesn't bottom out as you'll twist it off for sure and then you'll really be up sh!t creek w/o a paddle.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 12:18:46

Torque requirements for that bolt are moderate light (100 inch pounds) so somebody twisted the threads off.

You can go on line to a metric fastener supplier and get a 5mm longer and the next length above that bolt. You will need to get the gasket rim off the old bolt (or order a new one).

That longer bolt is for turning into a tap by cutting a relatively long notch in the end with a cutting edge on the "turn in" side using a dremel tool or the corner edge of a fine file -- when inserted the bolt will cut threads in the rest of the as drilled hole.

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FT2/IK6B/GTGZI9OI/FT2IK6BGTGZI9OI.LARGE.jpg

If you can cut threads the entire extra length of the longer bolt, good -- use the longer bolt as your permanent bolt. If you can go past 5mm extra but not the entire length, then cut off the longer bolt so it just barely goes in all the way.

Only torque the new bolt to 100 inch pounds -- that is like only 8.3 foot pounds which is like light wrist tight.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by caveman on 09/28/12 at 12:34:46

how long should the reg bolt be? i just took the bolt out again and this time threds came out with it. how bad is this???

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 13:04:50

Just measure the bolt you have now, go longer in two increment stages, turn the longer one into a tap as shown in the picture.

The treads you removed say to me that your bolt was stock length, so likey there are a few whole threads left undamaged below it so you have something to get the threading action started.

Use lots of lube while you are cutting new threads and take a blast of brake parts cleaner and a long plastic nozzle to go to the bottom of the tapped hole before triggering so as to blast all the crap out of the hole when you are done blasting. Do the blasting like twice with the last one coming up clean, then use neverseize or similar grease on the bolt when finally installing it to the mild 100 inch pound torque.

Don't forget your gasket under the bolt head.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by verslagen1 on 09/28/12 at 13:42:47

as this is the oil delivery hole, use motor oil for lube, just a coating on the threads

go slow, this will create a hydro lock

as far as putting a cutting knotch... I'd just file the last thread to a sharp edge, you want a thread forming rather than thread cutting.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 15:19:17

Hummm ....... thread forming with a low tensile steel bolt might pose a bit of possible danger of snapping the bolt off in the hole as extra twist force is required to roll up a thread compared to cutting with multiple cutting edges.

Thread cutting is gonna be less stressful on the bolt that is turned into tap.

Hydro lock is just about a certainty on this job as Verslagen said, so increase the length of your tapping cuts to allow oil to get out of the tight bottom part of the hole.

::)

(and if you did thread form, you'd have zero clearance for the puddle of oil to get out of the way as thread forming is a zero clearance game -- unless the faster happens to have a pretty good tri-roundular form from being die struck threaded)

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Cavi Mike on 09/28/12 at 16:05:05

If that hole wasn't form threaded in the first place(which I doubt it was) you're never gonna get that bolt in there. You probably wouldn't get an actual form tap in there either. The drilled hole for a form-thread is much larger than for a cut thread.

http://www.fastenersinc.com/Images/fasteners_tap_drill_chart.pdf

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/28/12 at 20:11:51

First, take a piece of wire & see how deep the hole is. Compare that to the bolt, figure the difference, then get back with the answer, we will go from there.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Digger on 09/28/12 at 22:16:04

In the past, I've found that bore brushes work well for cleaning any debris from these bolt holes.

I made a small mod to my bore brush to make it easier to turn:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/BoreBrush-1E.jpg

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/BoreBrush-2E.jpg

Also, long, wooden-shafted Q-tips (http://shopping.yahoo.com/969460866-medi-pak-cotton-tipped-applicator-6-2-per-package-box-of-200-model-24-806-2s/) work well for soaking up any oil that may have accumulated in the holes.

IHTH!

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by rfw2003 on 09/28/12 at 22:36:03

That's a great idea Digger. I never would have thought of that.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Cavi Mike on 09/28/12 at 22:47:44

Oil/water/whatever won't hydro-lock a tap or bolt. Threaded holes are not 100% thread, they're under 75%. There is plenty of room for the liquid to squeeze past.

The last 25% of a thread only makes the thread 5% stronger yet takes 75% more effort to create.

That's one of those nice little quotes I remember from a machinists handbook when I first started doing this stuff.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Oldfeller on 09/29/12 at 00:22:43

Think again about Verslagen's thread forming up that thread, rolling up the material from the larger diameter wall into a form fitting rolled up thread that exactly matches the bolt root diameter.

With zero clearance to the round bolt form that rolls it up no less.

Me, I say tap it and make your tapping cuts as long as the part you intend to thread to allow free collection/passage of swarf and oil.

(can't forget about the swarf if you are thread cutting, now can you -- gotta make some clearance in them cuts to hold all them minichips, no?)

;)

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by KNOCKDOLIAN on 09/29/12 at 02:52:13

As someone pointed out, thats a thread insert he has pulled out. How about screwing in a new insert with green locktite on it ?

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/12 at 04:33:13

Ive seen threads pull out like that. I dont see the part there having the corner on the back side/outside of the thread section that would lock it into the tapped out hole, BUT, If that Is a thread repair kit & it Has pulled out,, thats a problem I wouldnt want..

In fact, he has a problem I wouldnt want already.

Beauty supply stores have cuticle sticks, reasonably strong, a cottonball can be used to load it, start a few strands around & around, then go to the tip, keep them tight, build up a Q tip lookin affair.
Or, cut strips of T shirt & use the sticks to poke them down, leaving an end out for retrieval, pipe cleaners work for some jobs,
Like I said, find out the depth of the hole, compare to the bolt. If its 1/2" deeper than the bolt is long, youre not screwed.

It MIGHT even be threaded down there.

I dont like the file for cutting bolts into taps, I like cut off wheels & I aim the slot so as to pass between the edge Im starting the cut in & the center of the bolt, so the slot is scraping the edge of the hole. That means a turn of the bolt & pull it & THAT means being absolutely certain
you find the start thread & dont start a new cut or youll wind up in worse shape than youre in now.DRop it in, turn it backwards till it drops, then finger tighten back in & start the cut. Buying a proper tap may be a good plan here, but, youll may need to find someone to braze an extension on, taps that long are hard to find & expensive.

Now, If you were to discover that there is a small car out there with head bolts that size you could get a couple & use 1 to make your tap.

Or, stop by your local Nut & Bolt supplier, not Lowes, but a place that sells nothing but threaded fasteners, they mite be able to help you. Once you know the depth of the hole, youll know what your options are,

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by Cavi Mike on 09/29/12 at 06:29:18

That's not a thread insert, that's the thread. That's what happens when you pull the thread out of something. What do you think happens to the metal when this happens? Disintegrate into thin air?

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/12 at 22:58:30

Dang MIke,, I pretty much already covered that, only I didnt use a baseball bat,

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by LouSiana on 09/30/12 at 01:08:02

I just was out and gave it an eye.
The thread caveman pulled out is about 8mm long. The thread in total is cut about 14mm deep in the cylinder material (respectively the recess for the oil passage there). So there is still 6mm of unused thread and the unthreaded bore is about 5mm.

So you can cut the thread some interesting millimeters deeper and take a bolt which is 10mm longer (140mm instead of 130mm stock) and longer threaded, but it must also be of good quality, better than usual tensile strength. I personally would choose the quality 1.000 N/mm². IDK the classes in USA, sorry!

If that works that way, it is as good as stock in my opinion.

Title: Re: got an oil leak
Post by ralfyguy on 09/30/12 at 11:41:16

I had that happen long time ago with the other bolt in front of that one. IIRC, the rear bolt was a L130 and the front one is a L125. So I ordered another two L130 bolts and did what Oldfeller did. Turning one bolt into a tap with a file, but also filed a little clearance behind the cutting edge. So i went to cut about a 1/4 turn at a time and removed the bolt and blew out the shavings. That part is very important as the shavings tend to ruin everything when binding in the whole and bunching up. Eventually I had the bolt all the way in and then used the other new bolt and tightened everything down. Works like new since a couple of years now.