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Message started by Mikecool5 on 09/24/12 at 13:24:48

Title: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Mikecool5 on 09/24/12 at 13:24:48

my nut is welded to the pulley any ideas on how to get that off?

Title: Re: Front pulley nut removal and spline maintenanc
Post by Oldfeller on 09/24/12 at 15:59:05

Mikecool5,

Please read the Guidelines for Tech Section at the top of the page.

Tech Section is a static reference book, not a place to ask questions.

Take all questions to Rubber Side Down.

Your question has been moved there, please do not ask it in the Tech Section again. Our site has all questions placed and answered in Rubber Side Down on purpose.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Oldfeller on 09/24/12 at 16:07:54

Now that you are in the right place, here is an answer.

First, why did the previous owner weld the nut (and I bet he welded the pulley itself too, didn't he?) to the output shaft?

Previous owner was unscrupulous. Front pulley splines were totally stripped out and he just wanted the shebang to hang together long enough to palm the mess off on you.

Answer, don't mess with it at all -- if you grind that nut and pulley free you are signing up for a full split the cases tear down and the labor charges and parts to do that will cost more than a used replacement engine would cost.

If it is hanging in there good, let it be.

Should it ever manage to break itself free (very unlikely) you have your answer right there already.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/12 at 16:10:28

Just hope & pray you never need to replace the belt,,
]
How long have you had it?

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Mikecool5 on 09/24/12 at 16:27:57

First off sorry for posting in the wrong section was just reading and forgot where i was. Now to answer JOG's question i have had the bike for nearly ten years but it was in storage for most of that time and i havnt really been interested until lately because i need something to get to work and back and this seems like my least costly option.

As for the spline i think the nut is just welded to the pulley meaning i could probably get it all off in one piece but a socket wont fit on there anymore. I would just leave it alone but it doesnt look to be welded all that well and i wanted to eventualy do a chain conversion.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/12 at 16:33:40

Then you'll need a cut off disk on a grinder to get into the corner. A grinder would get there eventually, but youd be digging a big groove to break the part of the weld that makes the first part of the 90 where the pulley meets the nut. YOu might be ahead to have a grinder and a grinder w/ a cut off. I modify regular little angle grinders to take a cut off wheel, because cut off grinders cost quite a bit more.
Since youve had it so long, you cant go back on the PO for not telling you about a known defect.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Mikecool5 on 09/24/12 at 16:37:05

thats what i was thinking but feel like i run the risk of rounding off the nut thus making it almost impossible to remove

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/12 at 20:06:20

Naaah, Youll need more than 1 cut off disk, or, youll hafta run w/o a guard ( Nope, dont).
Turn the nut so you can get an angle on it to walk the edge of the disk right down the weld that joins the nut & pulley, slice in, turn it, walk the next line, do that around, use a grinder at the inside edges of the corners, leave the outside edges of the flats on the nut alone, so the socket has something to work on,
Youll need to round off the nut where it meets the weld on the pulley or cut the weld down,Or the nut cant turn,.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Gyrobob on 09/24/12 at 20:36:18

How much weld metal is in there? If all he did was tack it in place in a couple of places, you could use a Dremel with the really thin cutoff wheel to surgically cut through the welds. He was a jerk to do this in the first place, so many he was jerky enough to not get much penetration in the welds. If he did a high heat, high flow, and high amperage MIG welding sesssion,.. and slobbed in lots of metal,.. you're screwed. If there isn't much metal added, though, you can do some miraculous things with that thin dremel cut-off wheel and a lot of patience. It can make some real tidy slices. Make sure to wear ear muffs and goggles.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Oldfeller on 09/24/12 at 21:11:22

Question still remains, why are you messing with it?

If you get it loose, you stand to find out something is there you can't fix.

If your goal is to ride the bike quick-like, then get it running and ride it.

Grinding on those welds is gonna likely be a losing situation for you $$$ wise.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by rfw2003 on 09/24/12 at 21:16:17

A picture of this would be great so that we know more of what your dealing with.

After seeing said picture then we can make more informed advise on what your options are or if your basically screwed.

R.F.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/12 at 21:47:08

Yea.Pics are in order..show the heaviest weld side for sure, more would be better

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Mikecool5 on 09/25/12 at 02:43:15

i will try to borrow a camera from somebody and get pics, theres a decent amount of metal there, crappy looking welds though. The thing with just leaving it alone is it was in storage for about 7 years and sitting out in the weather for another 3 and i dont know how safe i would feel driving it without replacing the belt.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Gyrobob on 09/25/12 at 05:17:43

6A4E4C424448484B12270 wrote:

Just use the camera in your phone.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Gyrobob on 09/25/12 at 05:19:43

One other consideration, if it has been in storage for 7 years, and out in the weather for three, the tires are probably unsafe, even if they look okay, and even if they were good the last time it was used.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/25/12 at 05:52:00

First thing Id do is get it running. If ya havent changed the oil, do so, while the oil is out, pop the side cover off & have a look at the cam chain if the mileage is anywhere close to 15,000 miles, ditch the gas, drop the bowl off the carb, clean it up, check/clean jets.Have a look in the tank, drop the petcock, see that the screen is clear.
Once youve got it running, run it up & down the street a bit, make sure it goes thru the gears & acts right at low speeds. Dont play in corners on those old tires or run very fast. Stay close to home, tires that old really dont belong on the street. Once its acting right, throw some decent rubber on, ride it a while. See how it acts, If the pulley doesnt cause a problem, enjoy it a while. Get some miles on it, make it pay you back for resurrecting it before you risk downing it trying to mod it. Hopefully, the splines on the shaft arent shafted.
If they are & theyre not just horrible, maybe the sprocket can be sent to a spray metal place & have the ID built up a bit, tho, telling them how much to do would be a technical problem., Ive seen the work that can be done & the cost. We sent triplex pump plungers to be built up so they would run & seal on the seal pack. It wasnt cost prohibitive.BUt that was 20 years ago.,.

If youre at all concerned that a tire mite blow out, dont ride it at all B4 you put new on,

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by BuckRYCA on 09/25/12 at 06:59:34

Let me tell you the story of welding on my front pulley.

I bought a 96 Savage with 11K miles. The splines on the front pulley gave way at about 13K miles. The transmission output shaft spines were damaged, but lthe splines on the pulley were gone.

My fix was a new pulley with an application of Loctite 660 on the transmission output splines. This lasted to 19K miles. Again the pulley splines were gone and this time so were the splines on the transmission output shaft.

What to do? What to do? Well, it's either pull the engine, split the cases, and replace the shaft (at least $300 in parts and special tools with no labor costs included) or weld the pulley to the output shaft. 15 year old bike with 19K miles? What is there to lose by welding? -- not much.

So a friend MIG welded the pulley to the end of the output shaft and to the pulley retaining nut. This fix lasted until 22K miles when the last inch of the shaft sheared.

OK, with the output shaft splines gone now it's time for me to fix it right - pull the engine, split the cases, etc. My point is that the weld fix is worth a try. I got 3K miles out of it at practically no cost. I believe the Previous Owner thought it was worth a try, too, however PO should have advised you of the weld fix. It's a buyer-beware world.

Unless the belt is badly damaged follow the advice given here. Get it running. Once it's running OK, put on new tires (it is not necessary to remove the front pulley to replace the rear tire), then ride it until the pulley weld breaks. This is much more likely than having a belt break. At that point you have several options: Re-do the weld fix, do the correct but very expensive case splitting, or part it out.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by verslagen1 on 09/25/12 at 07:01:45

795D5F51575B5B5801340 wrote:

The belts are pretty hardy. and even if it does go, they're not like a chain that'll take you out when they break.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by srinath on 09/25/12 at 07:09:45

One of the reasons the pulley gave up is because it is usually made of sintered metal. You are better off getting a sproket which is made of hardened steel mated to the shaft, machined to bolt on to a pulley of same diameter and teeth pitch which should be ideally made of mild steel and getting the sproket welded to the spline on the motor and the pulley bolted onto the sproket. I have thought long and hard about converting a GS500 which is chain to belt. That would be the way I'd do it, however a GS to add to this problem has a sprocket that is held on with a circlip not a nut like the savage.

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Gyrobob on 09/25/12 at 08:58:35

I'm not familiar with the parts involved, so this is nothing more than a brainstorm comment,... Would the RYCA kit for converting to a chain be of any help here?

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by srinath on 09/25/12 at 09:19:33

5769627F727F72100 wrote:

I'm not familiar with the parts involved, so this is nothing more than a brainstorm comment,... Would the RYCA kit for converting to a chain be of any help here?

Not if the spline is damaged. Sprockets cant quite be welded on cos they wear out and need to be changed. Only way it will work is with a belt and pulley.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Mikecool5 on 09/25/12 at 16:00:17

Just use the camera in your phone.[/quote]

i have a ccrappy $29 metro phone it can take pics but i cant get them to the computer. I will try to borrow one this week.

I should be able to get it running this week or next the tank hasnt had fuel in it in a long time but its pretty rusty so i will have to clean it out before anything and as for the tires i know they need replacing and will get to that as soon as i can afford it. Thanks for all the advice

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Gyrobob on 09/25/12 at 20:43:18

7256545A5C5050530A3F0 wrote:

i have a ccrappy $29 metro phone it can take pics but i cant get them to the computer. I will try to borrow one this week.

I should be able to get it running this week or next the tank hasnt had fuel in it in a long time but its pretty rusty so i will have to clean it out before anything and as for the tires i know they need replacing and will get to that as soon as i can afford it. Thanks for all the advice

Don't put them in the computer. Just email them from the phone.

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Mikecool5 on 09/26/12 at 08:41:18

69575C414C414C2E0 wrote:

[quote author=7256545A5C5050530A3F0 link=1348518289/15#21 date=1348614017]

i have a ccrappy $29 metro phone it can take pics but i cant get them to the computer. I will try to borrow one this week.

I should be able to get it running this week or next the tank hasnt had fuel in it in a long time but its pretty rusty so i will have to clean it out before anything and as for the tires i know they need replacing and will get to that as soon as i can afford it. Thanks for all the advice

Don't put them in the computer. Just email them from the phone.[/quote]

if i could i would, this phone wont email pics

Title: Re: Front pulley nut welded by previous owner
Post by Gyrobob on 09/26/12 at 09:42:27