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Message started by ColoS40Girl on 09/23/12 at 18:36:15

Title: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 09/23/12 at 18:36:15

How many miles do you get on a tank of gas BEFORE going to the reserve? I rode approximately 41 miles before it kept cutting out at stop signs. I had to put it on reserve to get the bike home. :( And, yes, the tank was topped off and not partially filled. The bike is not broken in yet with only 570 miles.

The only thing I did differently was drills in the parking lot for about 3 hours. Slow maneuvers, Ride Like A Pro, drills.

What can I truly expect from a tank before going to the reserve?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Greg on 09/23/12 at 18:37:21

I get around 120 miles before hitting reserve.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 18:41:05

You have well over a half tank of gas yet your bike acts like it is running out of gas ...... (sigh)

:(

Please read this thread, you may have something going on with your bike that you need to understand a little bit about so it won't take you by surprise if/when it happens again.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1

570 miles, still not broken in completely -- she will be the earliest onset seen if it is indeed so

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Charon on 09/23/12 at 18:41:39

Mine typically gets 110 - 120 miles without getting into Reserve. It is a 2007 S40, box stock. That's operating at normal highway speeds of 60 or so. If I drive faster, gas mileage and fuel range decrease.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Paraquat on 09/23/12 at 18:50:19

I was seeing close to 100 on a full tank.

--Steve

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 19:10:52

Colo was riding slow drills in a parking lot for 3 hours. Think that low vac chug-a-lugging up & down scenario drove her vac petcock into delivery seizures ???

Will it be temporary, or is this mebbe a formula for creating early onset of the "stumble troubles"?

I hope I am wrong this time .... :(

============================

When you tanked up, how many gallons went into the tank to fill you back up all the way?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ToesNose on 09/23/12 at 19:22:00

At 134 miles this tank without hitting reserve since last fill up w/ Raptor.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 09/23/12 at 19:22:41

Thanks all. Oldfeller, I will read the tread but your second post went straight over my head. Please explain so I can understand. I am not mechanically inclined.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 19:30:00

There are only two things that can make your bike act like you are running out of gas when you have plenty of gas in the tank.

One is massive carb malfunctions (like sticking slides) which very rarely happen and then they certainly don't go healing themselves on their own miraculously. For a practically new carb to have a sticking slide is not a good thing.

The other is a vac petcock malfunction, which does happen altogether too often, which can "heal" itself and then can and will reoccur later on. My thoughts run to this as your problem, as quite frankly it fits the symptoms altogether too well.

My asking you how much gas went into the tank when you filled it up when you thought you were out of gas was a telling clue (of which we are still waiting on hearing your answer).

Does your bike act normally now, or do you still have some trouble at stop signs?

What is going on now, that you KNOW you have a full tank of gas?

=======================

IS YOUR BIKE NEW AND UNDER SUZUKI FACTORY WARRANTY?

If so, beat a path to your dealership and tell them your issues and ask them for warranty service. Make them tell you what is wrong with your bike. And don't pay them a penny for anything they do -- these items I have mentioned are all known issues with the bike that they should have done a recall on years ago if they weren't such cheapskates about it.

Start a warranty claim dispute (get a dispute number logged into the system with Suzuki America if you have to) -- on a new bike under warranty YOU shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.

We are seeing an uptick in new bike issues with Suzuki now that the motors are being built out of country (not built in Japan any more).

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by CalisOsin on 09/23/12 at 19:56:00

I think an important question is, after you switched to reserve and filled up, how much gas did it take to fill it up?

I have a highly modified setup and I only get around 80 miles before I switch to reserve.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ZAR on 09/23/12 at 20:10:07

ColoS40Girl I've only had to switch to reserve twice on my '96 model. Both times were on the interstate with rush hour traffic rolling along at 70+mph! I'd run around 90-100 hard and fast miles both times. Believe me, I crank on it through the gears and run the two lanes at 60+mph,the freeway at 75 so I go through the juice! But hey! you ride to enjoy it right?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by clearush on 09/23/12 at 20:18:38

When I hit 90-95 miles I put in about 2 gallons and never have to hit reserve.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by RC on 09/23/12 at 20:55:02

120 I just put gas in it every 100 miles and never hit reserve anymore

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 21:14:31

67444545424E79424F4E582B0 wrote:

How many miles do you get on a tank of gas BEFORE going to the reserve? I rode approximately 41 miles before it kept cutting out at stop signs. I had to put it on reserve to get the bike home. :( And, yes, the tank was topped off and not partially filled. The bike is not broken in yet with only 570 miles.

The only thing I did differently was drills in the parking lot for about 3 hours. Slow maneuvers, Ride Like A Pro, drills.

What can I truly expect from a tank before going to the reserve?

You got issues that need attention, under warranty if you are still under warranty.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by J C Stokes on 09/23/12 at 21:38:45

If it's new go back to the dealer like Old Fella says. I would be a little careful about telling them you were in a parking lot at low speed for three hours with a very low mileage and I'm assuming, brand new bike.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/12 at 22:51:27

And, yes, the tank was topped off and not partially filled. The bike is not broken in yet with only 570 miles.

Im guessing that means you bought it new?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Serowbot on 09/23/12 at 22:53:18

Normally, a good running Savage should get about 60mpg (give or take 5)......
Running to reserve in 40 miles makes you worse than 20 mpg...

That's very wrong... :-?...
Fuel is going somewhere it shouldn't...

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by J C Stokes on 09/23/12 at 23:54:40

At the risk of demonstrating my ignorance, did the lady have the choke in all the way?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Routy on 09/24/12 at 02:39:01

The truth ?
A good running s40 will average 50mpg. If riding in the hills and curves, 45mpg is very common. Riding on freeways at 65,.......I don't know.
I also don't know how anyone could get down to 25mpg, except off road hill climbing ??

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by WD on 09/24/12 at 05:34:13

70mph with 15 inch rise handlebars and a 6'2" 225# rider still gets around 35mpg. Something is definitely screwy with your stock petcock.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/24/12 at 05:35:55

Routy, read the top 5-6 items in RSD this morning and tell me truthfully, do you still think it is all petcock paranoia any more? Or do we really have an issue with the bikes that is becoming more prevalent on the newer ones being built with Chinese sourced components and all.

Verslagen and you are the bellwethers on "convinced" and he has swung over now. Charon believes, he just likes to see factual data (which is a good thing).

Where are you now?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by mojohand40 on 09/24/12 at 05:56:32

It's kinda funny: When I bought my 98 the previous owner told me just as I was getting ready to ride it home "You may need gas soon, it only gets about 50-60 miles to a tank"...I remember thinking, that doesn't sound right....but I kept topping it off right around 50-60 miles...
...then one morning..chug--cough ---chug...I switch to reserve, but bike won't start, tried prime, nothing......finally I get some gas in a can and fill it back up and all is good.
So then I went here on the forum and read about the petcock and the vacuum etc, and the raptor.
Long story short, I got a Raptor petcock and and plugged the vacuum etc. Bike runs better, no more problems.
upon inspection, I believe that my petcock was really just gunked and dirty. I mean, seriously, it's a wonder the bike ran at all.
When I tried to drain the tank to make the raptor switch, prime didn't do anything at all.
Like I said before, my 98 was pretty much left in the elements etc a long time before the PO bought it and then he rode it for awhile and sold it me. So I don't know if the petcock was faulty on mine or just filthy.
BTW..I drained the tank and got everything out of it before installing the raptor. I'm pulling the tank off to paint it next weekend (started side cover and fender this past weekend..sanded and primed!) so I'll really need to clean the tank good then.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/24/12 at 06:05:10

Was yours gunked with external stuff, or like Lou's were a few of the smaller internal rubber metering parts slowly turning themselves into bubble gum?

One of the issues is that the older bikes were built with parts that were never intended to see 10% alcohol gasoline. The petcock falls into this category of parts on the pre-1995 era bikes.

There are little rubber valve components in that vac petcock that can fail leading to some of the symptoms we commonly see.

The Raptor petcock is much simpler, and lacks all of these known failure mode pieces.

Simplicity is beautiful in this case.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Trippah on 09/24/12 at 06:59:47

THere is, depending on where she lives, and the ambient temp, the possibility that after 3 hrs of parking lot work that the bike was overheating???

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/24/12 at 09:16:31

Why would overheating wait until after she was done in the parking lot and was on the way home (full speed, full air cooling)?

And how does overheating affect anything that would cause a "stumble stop" at an intersection? Vapor locking the gas lines would take a WHOLE LOT of heat.

If her engine was that hot, she'd be cooking her legs the whole time .....

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Bradford on 09/24/12 at 17:14:02

Does it mater what year raptor petcock is needed to fit our bikes :-/

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 09/24/12 at 17:27:43

Sorry! I haven't been around. I have yet to go to the gas station. I did breeze out my bike during the drills and also turned the bike off several times to let it cool down. I live in Colorado and the tempature was in the low 80s. I plan to first put gas in it and then take it to the dealership as the bike is still under warranty. I am out of town until Friday so I will gas up then and post my findings. Thanks again for all the responses. :)

The bike is a 2012. I bought it used but have the warranty. I just had the 600 mile service on it and have only put 15 miles on it since.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 09/28/12 at 19:10:53

Update: I put 1.29 gallons in today. The manual states the tank only holds 2.6 gallons so I should not have to use the reserve but did. I truly believe the gas in the tank was of good quality. Even with parking lot drills, I did let the bike cool off and breezed out the engine. I know I did not abuse the bike by riding it too long without letting it cool down.

I am now convinced it is a vac petcock problem as I had the same cutoff problem as another poster in another thread. I am not happy to have a hardly used bike with this problem already. My plans is to go to the dealership tomorrow and raise H@LL! :(

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/28/12 at 19:45:29

Dont Raise Hell,, just go in & explain it, show them what youve learned. YOu know more than they do. YOu can be mean later,, you can get a lot more by simply demonstrating knowledge & understanding of how it works & how it is failing that going in & trying to kikkass on them,
If that doesnt work, call Suzuki,,

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 19:54:28

Get the dealership's managers email address and we will all send him candy grams should they be silly enough to screw around with you.

Or if we have your claim number, we can express how we feel to Suzuki of America, same small amount of effort either way.

::)

"Candy gram, candy gram for Mungo ..... Mungo, candy gram for Mungo !!!" KABOOOOM !!!!

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 19:55:25

Yep, Justin is the good cop,

...... me, not so nice sometimes.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 09/28/12 at 20:02:53

Justin and Oldfeller,

I will first be sweet :-*but the truth is I am more like Oldfeller. >:( I hope they will do the right thing. If not, Oldfeller I will be sending out their email address along with a claim number. I would have thought a 600 mile service would have identified the issue especially if the vac petcock issue is commonly known.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/12 at 20:07:25

Oh goodie, goodie ....

ColoS40Girl is our new pinup girl on the vacsucker recall war !!!

:D

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by J C Stokes on 09/29/12 at 00:58:47

I'll get shot but is the choke all the way in? I will now duck for cover.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/29/12 at 01:06:07

Up to her if she shoots you ..... ;D

If it were me, I'd sure check before I hit the dealership

but I'd NEVER NEVER fess up on the list if it were so .....

:-X

Actually, if the choke was out she'd have used up the entire tank of gas instead of just 1.29 out of the 2.6 gallons available --- so I think you may possibly have a bullet headed your way .....

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by NicholasTanguma on 09/29/12 at 11:36:13

587A777268546872751B0 wrote:

I have a highly modified setup and I only get around 80 miles before I switch to reserve.

Good gracious, what kind of modifications do you have that you're only getting 80 miles before reserve?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/29/12 at 12:07:14

My 80 mile tankful is based off a stage 2 cam, carb mods, air filter mods, exhaust mods and a bad right wrist.

If you ride hard, you get some right sorry mpg.

If you ride stock and gently, you can get 120 miles out of a tank of gas.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 09/29/12 at 12:38:43

426F75746F6E697465000 wrote:

I'll get shot but is the choke all the way in? I will now duck for cover.

No I am not going to shoot you. It is a fair question. The choke was all the way in. This bike is not cold blooded. I rarely pull out the choke because it starts up right away. Anyway, I called the dealership and they said to bring in the bike in on Tuesday. They said they would go over the entire bike including the vac petcock. IF it is a warranty issue they will fix it for free. If not, I only will pay half for the diagnostic check and pay to fix whatever is wrong. I told them a new bike should have nothing wrong and should have undergone a quality assurance check before selling the bike. He mentioned pinched cables or something maybe loose. Anyway, I do not think this is unreasonable. So stay tuned.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by NicholasTanguma on 09/29/12 at 12:39:07

597A7270737A7A7364160 wrote:

My 80 mile tankful is based off a stage 2 cam, carb mods, air filter mods, exhaust mods and a bad right wrist.

Oldfeller, is your 80 miles before, or including, reserve?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/29/12 at 12:43:59

before

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/29/12 at 12:58:26

You are being dicked with by the dealership, with them throwing up "pinched cables" which IS BULLSHITE and are a part of their set-up out of the crate and are covered by warranty.

Contact Suzuki America and get a file number for your complaint. Your bike is under warranty and the dealership is attempting to take money from you for warranty service on a known issue.

If you carry the bike in under these terms, they are going to charge you money and do NOTHING to fix your issue, just magically fix some "pinched cables".

Girl, you remember that for YOU to fix the issue would cost YOU $16 and two hours of your time.

They are going to charge you over 4 times that amount (and that will be your half of the total) just to check the bike in and "adjust the cables" which will not fix a stinking thing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-LTZ-400-LTZ400-Fuel-Gas-Petcock-Valve-Switch-Pump-ATV-Quad-Four-Wheeler-/221043795497?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item33773ca629&vxp=mtr

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m2oAY7pX-4b8WZiLRj8Cdow.jpg

So, you can spend the $16 and get the Raptor and put it in yourself, or call Suzuki America and start the merry go round.

Calling Suzuki tells the dealership not to screw with you, but they will still get more than $16 out of you several times over before they actually fix anything.

===========================

You see, the problem really is that NOBODY at that dealership understands the Savage very much as they only sell 1-2 a year and only service one every other year.

They are going to fumble and bumble around and actually break things when working on your bike. And you will carry it back when they don't fix it and pay them more money to fumble around some more.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/12 at 15:04:56

If that thing isnt 100% Serviceable Its Warranty Time,
Give me some pliers,, Ill pinch HIS cable,,

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 09/29/12 at 15:21:01

What is the dealership's name, who was the person that told you that bullshite.

There is a little vacuum tube that runs from the petcock to the carburetor, it lives underneath a steel spring and it is the ONLY tube that could get pinched that could cause your issue.

Check it now, yourself. Know the condition of that tube before you take it in to the dealership. Take it off and suck on it to see if it leaks or is crimped or blocked in any way.

If it isn't the tube, then the petcock itself is bad.

Stealerships, they LIE like rugs to try to avoid charging stuff to warranty, then they jack the charges up double and "get you to pay your fair half" which is really all of it to begin with.

If you take that bike in to the dealership without a guarantee from Suzuki of America that it will be under warranty and NO CHARGE TO YOU then you just blew $60-80 of your hard earned money. And that's assuming the bumble Mikey only spends an hour bumbling around with your bike.

And you could have bought yourself 3 Raptor petcocks for that sort of money.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/12 at 18:55:00

Its time to post th guys name & number, or at least give it to me,, Im ready to talk to this clown,
PM me your name, & his info & Ill be on the phone Monday.& I wont get you arrested !

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by J C Stokes on 09/29/12 at 20:10:08

Cologirl, if you don't get satisfaction, I'm sure there are consumer advocacy organisations in your state. There are probably consumer rights type television programs that might be worth a try. Hopefully you will get satisfaction, but if you don't, it may do no harm to contact such organisations. Altough you have rights as a consumer, any business or corporation will have tax deductable lawyers and this simple fact tends to make them stronger in a fight. Law courts are renowned for snail speed.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by misterbbq on 09/30/12 at 06:23:10

i always thought dealerships liked warranty work since they get reimbursed at a set rate from the manufacturer?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by WD on 09/30/12 at 09:12:27

They get factory book rate for the parts and time. Had a petcock replaced on Lisa's VS800 under recall. We were without the bike for 3 weeks and it had to go back twice once it was "fixed". And the VS800 has a mechanical petcock from the factory.

Direct bolt on swap to an LS650 tank by the way. But is a lot higher priced than the Raptor unit.

Do everything yourself with the exception of tires, and do them when you get the tools to swap them. The dealer is NOT going to look after your best interest. Unless Mike still owns/runs Suzuki City in Biloxi MS, he and his mechanic corrected all known flaws with mine before it left their shop (those guys actually love the Savage). They even popped out the air screw cover and correctly set it, test rode the machine to make sure it was dialed in correctly. AND replaced the factory piece of crap cut rate vacuum line with a high temp safe silicon version (free of charge). And replaced the vacuum hose the factory pawns off as fuel line...

I'm 400 miles from there now, but if they are still around, I'm going to load mine in the truck and take it there to be put back in working order. Them I trust, my local dealers, not a chance.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 09/30/12 at 09:50:26

Okay! You have convinced me to look at the petcock and inspect the bike myself, okay my brother in law. ::) We will look at it today and with the great descriptions and pictures on this forum we will take a look. I will post our findings later on tonight.

Plan B. I could not pry my brother in law away from the golf tournament. He will do it Tuesday or Wednesday. Therefore, I am going to wait to take the bike in. If it is the petcock, I will have him install a new one. If not, I will take it in. The bike is under warranty until February 2013. Golf indeed! :-/

The dealership I purchased the bike from is not the one I called so I am hesitant to post their information. But make no mistake, I am not going to let them take advantage of me. I know how to raise hell and will file a complaint in a New York minute if I even think they are messing with me.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Bubba on 10/01/12 at 08:07:41

ColoS40, I'm in Denver. if you're close I can help with the swap out or testing the petcock let me know... it is super easy

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/01/12 at 08:18:13

I could not pry my brother in law away from the golf tournament.

IDK whether to laugh or cry,, thats so pitiful! Im cryin for you outta one eye, the other eye is raining just as many tears, laughing at someone who watches GOLF..
Actually, its not fair of me to do that, because I have a recording of a golf tournament. I watch it when I cant sleep., I think Ive only seen about 2 minutes of it, 6 or 8 times,that stuff'l sure put ya to sleep.,

Thot processes of anyone who chooses to watch TV over being involved in real life,, hmmmm.. gotta wonder,I know why Im here or in front of TV,, cuz I dont feel good enough to DO somethin,, when Im feelin Okay, IM busy,

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 10/01/12 at 16:03:26

4E796E6E6D3D3C343F0C0 wrote:

ColoS40, I'm in Denver. if you're close I can help with the swap out or testing the petcock let me know... it is super easy

Thanks! I may take you up on it if I'm close. I am now in Atlanta GA until this weekend. If my btr-in-law doesn't do something while I'm gone, I will PM you and see your availability. I am planning on riding this weekend to see if it happens again.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 10/01/12 at 16:08:07

352A2C2B3631003000382A266D5F0 wrote:

There are two things he loves- golf and his bikes. I can't really complain. He does work on this bikes when I ask him to. Just too lazy last weekend. ;);)

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by J C Stokes on 10/16/12 at 00:35:57

Colo Girl, how did you get on with your fuel consumption and dealership issues?

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 10/19/12 at 17:36:04

Update: I took the bike to the dealership. They called back and said they could not replicate the problem. However, he did say they could tell the vacuum had failed at some point. Anyway, they are going to replace the petcock with the Yamaha Raptor and only charge me, at their cost, for the Raptor since it is not an OEM Suzuki part. I think this is more than fair. Hopefully, this will take care of my problem. Stay tuned! ;)

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ToesNose on 10/19/12 at 18:25:04

I would say that is quite fair, and I'm suprised they would replace it with a raptor instead of a stock replacement. Glad to hear that the dealership is actually looking out for you ;)

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 10/19/12 at 18:54:23

The dealership indicated they could not understand why Suzuki has not moved to the Raptor type petcock as they are a better product.

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/12 at 19:18:42

07242525222E19222F2E384B0 wrote:

Stay tuned!

Im doin my best at that. I dont mess with my jets, but it seems the exhaust sometimes just "Opens Up" & Ill go lean & backfire like crazy for a day or 2..My wife is startin to understand mechanical issues a lot better I think.. Last time she diagnosed the problem right away,,
Bad Gas..

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by ColoS40Girl on 11/03/12 at 15:48:40

UPDATE ON MY S40 petcock issue :D

I just picked up my bike and it is running great. The dealership put in the Yamaha Raptor petcock at no charge. They fixed it under the warranty. The service manager took the time to explain what I needed to do with the new petcock. I am very happy. I plan on taking a long ride tomorrow. Wish me the best (no more issues!) :D

Title: Re: The truth please
Post by Oldfeller on 11/04/12 at 03:50:21

Sounds like you got the best of both worlds from you dealership -- good on them.

Now we can say our List Raptor Petcock Repair Method is also used by "some dealerships" with kinda sorta a straight face.

Was that a generic "running great" or does your bike actually run any differently? (worse or better and at what speeds/conditions)

I ask because your bike is new and this is as pure a test case as we will ever likely see, no ageing components and no modifications cluttering up the answer with their own effects.