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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1348246653 Message started by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 09:57:33 |
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Title: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 09:57:33 NO OIL WARS PLEASE....JUST MAKING CONVERSATION I have been reading up on the T6 and think I am 99% sold. I have a 2008 with ~1100 miles and don't have any problems with it, but when I read what positive running and shifting results some have experienced I keep asking myself why not? So, I ask you experienced folks the same question. I know, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but if it will run and shift a little smoother and (as some speculate) slightly increase performance and gas mileage, WHY NOT? Thanks for your thoughts, and PLEASE be good boys and girls and don't fight. ;) |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Serowbot on 09/21/12 at 10:00:50 Yarp!... Synth oil, like T6 will have those benefits... ;)... ... and yer' engine will run a little cooler... |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 10:06:08 T-6 gives you confidence that nothing you can do to the bike (including stupid stuff) can cause it to overheat enough to hurt the oil or the engine. It also gives you confidence that the T-6 is good for twice the drain interval that you use (and yep, that includes me and my once a year oil changes). Other folks can chime on on the better shifting stuff, my bike has shifted good for so long I can't even remember when it was new and cobby. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 10:17:21 Thanks folks! So far that's two for two. Unless Mr. Suzuki himself logs in and says "no" I think I am going ahead to wally world after work and fill up my saddle bag with a gallon. :D Should I change and cycle the T6 in the bike for ~10 minutes or so and then do another full change to make sure and flush out all of the current dino oil, or just do a normal change after warming the bike and once is good enough? |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by mojohand40 on 09/21/12 at 10:18:28 I've changed my oil and filter 3 times in the last two or so months. (First time, cause it needed it, second time replacing cam chain tension-er and and third time because I was trying to fix leaky clutch cover gasket from the previous time). The first two times, I used t6 and noticed a great improvement in shifting etc, but like I said the old oil was from the PO and looked old. The third time I used Rotella T15w40, cause'....why not? Non-synthetic..a little cheaper. So far so good. I was STUCK in some MAJOR traffic yesterday, and the bikes stayed cool, no problems. Last weekend I put t6 in my wifes V-Star 650, which always seems to run a little hot to me...and I noticed a little better shifting from it, and maybe a little cooler...but maybe it's all in my head. Regardless, it seems better and cheaper then what the dealers sell. (Yamaha or Suzuki branded oil). AND easier to get...what's with these bike shops with bankers hours? Do any of 'em work a 40 hr week? |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 10:26:09 4F48594B515550504F3C0 wrote:
No, just tilt the bike from side to side to encourage most of the old oil to come out. When changing over, you really don't get all of the old oil out -- your clutch pack is soaked with it, your cam pool is filled with it and your oil filter housing and all the oil passages are filled with it. Just change your oil on the normal frequency. You can expect a minor clutch adjustment any time you change oil (the clutch's function depends on oil film between the plates, so to have it shift a tad when changing over oils is perfectly normal). |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 10:30:56 6B4840424148484156240 wrote:
Will I need to adjust it at the clutch lever or down below where the lever comes from the case? Here is what mine looks like at resting and with the lever engaged. What direction should I anticipate making adjustments where I will not royally screw something up and ruin my tranny? |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 10:38:27 The adjustment marks you took pics of are only used when changing out the pushrods in the clutch. The adjustment I am talking about is the very minor one that lives up on the handle bars. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Blinky on 09/21/12 at 10:57:16 stew, By changing to T-6 and telling us about it, you may also hear a change in the sound of the exhaust. It may take on a definite, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, bill, kind of sound. You will get used to it. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 11:03:16 We got us a new kind of muffler for that issue .... stops all them oil wars, too. makes sorta a blap blap blap blap blap blap blap blap blap blap blap blap sound. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_udqEp_YR4&feature=player_embedded#![/media] |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 14:41:55 Yeah, kinder and gentler ..... kinder and gentler kinder and gentler :D |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 15:52:50 0601170E0E620 wrote:
Why do you say? For $21 at wally world it's worth it to me if that's what you mean... the higher price of the oil. Are there other ancillary things I will experience that cost other than the cost of the oil? I would think the opposite if it supposedly helps it run smoother and maybe slightly more efficient? Sorry if I didn't completely get a joke in there...it's been a long week... :D |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 16:07:49 It's an old private joke, we have a guy named Bill that likes to mess about with the new people and give them odd advice and agitate oil wars, etc. We tried to get him to stop, but he wouldn't .... Now we play whack a kitty with him when he shows up in RSD. (why? because we are kinder and gentler, kinder and gentler, kinder and gentler -- we used to do like like the guy below, but we are all kinder and gentler now) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0n8N98mpes[/media] So, now you don't know much more than you did before, except you know if somebody named Bill starts offering you advice on oil or seafoam or Klotz, then you know to dodge quick because the big soft hammer is coming. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Blinky on 09/21/12 at 16:26:18 Stew, My apology. I did not mean to indicate I have an issue with your choice in oil. I consider a persons choice of oil to be guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and as as sacred as their choice of a religion, a political party, and Coke or Pepsi (or Dr. Pepper in my case). If it helps, I just finished a 1,968 mile trip at mainly highway speeds with a sump full of T-6. The bike did well and consumed just over a quart. Good hunting |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by raydawg on 09/21/12 at 16:39:53 7F786E77771B0 wrote:
DANG....with gas mileage like that I think I'll put on riding speedos (fishnet only on the warm daze) and change to this wally world miracle juice and ride me bike with bout as close to perpetual motion one can get, yes? |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Cavi Mike on 09/21/12 at 17:24:31 Wally World miracle juice? What? Shell was around 60 years before WalMart. I really hope we don't have another bill on our hands. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 17:35:29 ;D Bill is fine, we don't use shotguns or sledge hammers to play whack a kitty -- kinder and gentler, kinder and gentler, kinder and gentler. You can go over to Cafe or Tall Table and find him still kicking up his Billishness over there -- just not here in front of the newbies. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Cavi Mike on 09/21/12 at 18:10:52 I was just reading that Mobil Delvac-1 is another great choice if you can't find Rotella T6. Another CI-4 rated oil, it's Mobil's competitor for T6 and it appears to be available worldwide. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Blinky on 09/21/12 at 18:30:57 Quote:
Whatever you do, do not; repeat, do not post pictures. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 18:39:36 6042554A6E4A4846230 wrote:
I thought we were all trying to AVOID them narsty 'ol erl wars ..... Delvac-1 has never ever been submitted to JASO for clutch testing. CI-4 standard is four years gone away, we are in CJ-4 land now. You are missing 'ol Billum, aren't you? :D see, there's Bill, humping on his fender again. http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/mc_100/122_1204_kurt_carlson_resurrects_the_vincent_bonneville_legend/40369683+w620/122-1204-01-o+vincent-bonneville-legend-salt-lake-flats+.jpg |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by raydawg on 09/21/12 at 18:41:04 5775627D597D7F71140 wrote:
Have you tried soap? ::) |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by raydawg on 09/21/12 at 18:42:50 7473657C7C100 wrote:
I agree.....I should sell them, eh? :-* |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Cavi Mike on 09/21/12 at 19:04:37 2E0D0507040D0D0413610 wrote:
I stumbled upon a nice article written by another motorcyclist and it was mentioned. I thought of the Aussie that said he couldn't get T6 down under. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Gyrobob on 09/21/12 at 19:05:51 5674637C587C7E70150 wrote:
I don't think it has the JASO MA rating, does it? |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Cavi Mike on 09/21/12 at 19:07:29 No, it doesn't, but I thought we were over that. It appears not. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 19:39:50 Frankly, you could say that the only thing JASO did to Rotella was make them take out a half percent of sulfur compounds, that all else was pre-existing as the original HDEO oil. Since Mobil never tested Delvac-1 against JASO, nobody knows what would have to be removed to make it pass. I think in both cases something might have to be reduced a bit, as HDEOs are "too robust" for most bike and car standards. Mobil Devlac-1 keeps getting compared against Mobil-1 and that gives Mobile conniptions because they keep thinning out Mobil 1 and Devac-1 stays hearty and good. Price-wise, Rotella T-6 at Wally tends to whomp up on Devlac-1 pretty good but that assumes you have a Wally in your neighborhood to buy it from. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 20:03:04 6265736A6A060 wrote:
Thanks Oldfeller and Blinky. I figured there had to be something more to that comment, and I laughed out loud reading the explanation. I actually remember seeing some comments on klotz, so it may have been (ohhhh noooo, Mr.) Bill. Thanks for the advice and heads up not to take the 'wrong' advice. :P |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by BobR on 09/22/12 at 05:51:03 Why do you say? For $21 at wally world it's worth it to me if that's what you mean ??????????? For T6, it's $37.97 here for 5 liters |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by misterbbq on 09/22/12 at 07:00:39 got some last night and did the oil change. used the same filter (FOR SHAME!) because i didn't have a replacement just yet. $24 at my walmarts. side note....you heat the bike up, drain the fluid and then get oil all over the exhaust when you take the filter out. that's kinda messy..... but she's purring nicely. i also tightened up the header bolts. one was visibly backed out. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by built2last66 on 09/22/12 at 07:31:31 76555D5F5C55555C4B390 wrote:
Which marks should they be on if it hasn't had the push rods changed? |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/22/12 at 08:10:46 At rest (not pulling on clutch) with the lever held upwards by say a light rubber band pressure (just to take the slack out of the eccentric system) the chrome lever should be in between the marks on the case. That's all, just in between the marks. Your pushrods and how you change them control "the ballpark" and you should be somewhere in the ballpark. When you find you are out of the ballpark, change your pushrod to a longer one. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by stewmills on 09/22/12 at 10:14:18 04272F2D2E27272E394B0 wrote:
Oldfeller, same question...and based on the picture I posted on page 1 of my lever and the marks, I read this and think my lever is sorta resting on the high side. Note the top image is at rest, but s noted, is with light pressure to take out the slack. Overall it shifts fine and I don't feel any slippage or anything or hear anything to indicate it is not right, but just overly cautious because I don't want to have something rubbing and potentially setting me up for an issue. I had it services at 600 miles and the tech said he adjusted the handle for free play and didn't indicate anything was out of whack. Would it be making any noises or providing any physical characteristics that I could pick up on if it were not adjusted properly? Note: I have never been inside the tranny and don't intend to unless it is mission critical. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/22/12 at 12:38:05 When you hit the top mark and drop in the next longest rod into the clutch throw out assembly, why by golly you wind up right at the bottom mark -- then you begin the slow progress up slowly to the top mark and you go and do it again. In other words, worry about it when you get there -- you will also recognize it because you are completely out of adjustment range on both the handle bars and on the long screw shank on the clutch cable. Until then, don't worry about it. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Cavi Mike on 09/22/12 at 16:15:10 22263C3B2A3D2D2D3E4F0 wrote:
I've yet to see anyone prove why changing a multi-grade oil when the engine is hot is better than when cold - or even a single grade. Multi-grade oils thin out as they cool off so they flow better during cold starts - less wear on the top of the engine. Also, the oil has fully drained from the top of the motor while it was cooling off, ensuring you don't contaminate your fresh oil with the crap that's been suspended in the new oil. I always drain mine cold. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/22/12 at 17:44:22 I've done it both ways, but seem to stay with a warm engine drain whenever it is available. Don't like hot, get burned too much getting that long arsed oil plug out of there -- warm is good enough for this old boy. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by SaVaGeEaRL on 09/22/12 at 19:10:15 I change mine cold. It's thinner when it's cold. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by stewmills on 09/22/12 at 20:13:57 17343C3E3D34343D2A580 wrote:
Thanks. Sounds like I am safe for a while considering I am just over 1000 miles :-? |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 00:55:48 4C5651545352444D210 wrote:
No it isn't. Those numbers in the oil weight, like 10w40 are defined by the SAE tests on how the oil pours at low and high temperatures. Translated, they say the oil does pour quicker hot than cold. I have done the freezer test on T-6 and while it doesn't change nearly as much as old dino oils did, but it is a little bit thicker pouring at -10 degrees F than it is at room temperature. The temp/viscosity change is there for full synthetic T-6, just not nearly as much as the old dino 10w40 oils used to have. Do it yourself if you want to .... we all got us a freezer at home and we can time how long it takes to pour out a fixed amount like a test tube full. Now, at room temperature vs engine warm, the drain rate difference is still there, but not nearly as pronounced. And yes, you can drain your oil successfully at room temperature. The few extra seconds it takes to drain isn't so much time as to be all that noticeable. Your drip time to zero drops will be greater though. I think the old saw about "drain your oil hot" came from dino oils back in the age of sludge, when you wanted to melt as much of the sludge as much as you could so more of it could get out of the little drain hole and into the drain pan. Modern oils don't form sludge (at least my T-6 has never formed any). ============ Here is some visual data on oil thickening at lower temperatures and room temperature. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21iYS-vaCQU[/media] |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Cavi Mike on 09/23/12 at 01:25:15 Great video, definitely clears up some conflicting stuff I've read. I'll change my method from cold to 1hr after shutdown. I still want as much of that oil to drain from the top of the motor as possible. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Charon on 09/23/12 at 05:54:41 One other point is that when the oil sits for a while any particulate matter suspended in it settles out. A cold engine will have had time for any particles of metal, soot, or silica (sand) to settle to the bottom of the sump, where it might remain when the cold oil is drained. If the engine has been recently run, the oil has been "stirred up" and most of the particulates will not have had time to settle out. True, the filter is supposed to catch this stuff, and the oil additive package is supposed to keep particles in suspension, but neither is always 100% effective. |
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Title: Re: Think I'm Going To Rotella T6 Post by Gyrobob on 09/24/12 at 04:57:39 My own technique is to let a hot motor sit for about half an hour, so the oil cools down to where it won't scald my fingers if I get "oiled" while taking the drain plug out. Then I go do something else for an hour or two, to let the rate of oil drainage reduce to zero,... no drops. |
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