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Message started by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 09:51:20

Title: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 09:51:20

What is the general shifting habit? I have only been riding for 4 months and find myself struggling to choose between downshifting through all gears and letting the clutch out at each gear to help slow my speed versus holding the clutch and downshifting all the way to first (of course keeping my gear close to my speed in case I need to pop the clutch and move).

Are there mechanical benefits to doing (or not doing) one versus the other or is it pure preference?

Thanks!

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by Serowbot on 09/21/12 at 09:57:50

Well,.. the more times you clutch,.. the sooner yer' clutch will wear out...
... but don't get paranoid about it... :-?...
The less you use engine braking,.. the sooner yer' brake pads will wear out, but they're cheap and easy to replace...

I usually do a double click, from 5th to 3rd,.. let the engine do some some braking,.. then double click to neutral, and use the front brake to slow to a stop...
That seems to allow for maximum engine braking with the least number of clutch pulls...
.. plus,.. I'm lazy... ;D...

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 10:01:19

Downshifting into second or first is VERY VERY HARD on your clutch dog faces, so don't you be a doing that .....

Downshifting to 4th and to 3rd are non-damaging and are quite commonly done as engine braking is very effective on this bike.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 10:13:18

2E0D0507040D0D0413610 wrote:

So what you are saying is don't release the clutch when downshifting to 2nd or first, just slow down with the brakes?

Tanks.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 10:21:31

Small point here, some don't use the clutch when downshifting lightly in the upper gears. I do use the clutch, but that's just me.

Yep, pull the clutch in, use the brakes, tap down into second then past second into neutral just as you get close to not rolling any more.

Banging into second or first in a power braking downshift is just very hard on the tranny for no real braking effects that does anything much to stop the bike.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 10:25:28

01222A282B22222B3C4E0 wrote:

Yep, pull the clutch in, use the brakes, tap down into second then past second into neutral just as you get close to not rolling any more.

Why not go from 2nd all the way to first? Are you avoiding that hard shift we sometimes feel going all the way down and waiting to drop it in 1st from neutral until you are stopped? I tend to want to not stop in neutral because I want to be in 1st ready to go if the light turns green while I am still rolling. Plus, that's what my rider course said to do ;D

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by Pine on 09/21/12 at 11:04:11

5244534E56434E55210 wrote:

Yep this... it frustrates me if I am going slow enough. I will slip past neutral and then have to adjust my foot to get back up there. With the clutch lever pulled in.. you are good down to 2nd... First gear I only go in once I am stopped. I think that is a common function across most bikes.

I have what seems to be common.. "sticky gears" so sometimes it does not want to pop out of 5 and down..just clutch it and it will release well enough. Currently, I engine brake about 20% of time... mostly just normal rear brake until at the very end.
I have no intention of dogging out my bike, and nothing to prove to anyone.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by Paraquat on 09/21/12 at 11:07:12

Noooooo...
We must coast to lights at different speeds.
If approaching a light I will clutch and coast. If I deem it necessary I will down shift a gear or two.
Even if I'm rolling around 20-30 mph I'll start in 3rd.

If you're moving too fast when you go to restart in first... you're gonna have a bad time.

When I broke my shift rod I manually put the bike into 3rd because I was still able to start in 3rd and it wasn't overly taxing for the back roads home.

--Steve

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by Blinky on 09/21/12 at 11:19:11

Quote:

Plus, that's what my rider course said to do Grin

The MSF course I took made the same point, be in a gear where you can move quickly if you need to. Approaching a stop light from 5th, I will back off the throttle, trail the rear brake ever so slightly and tap it into third. I will pull in the clutch again as I approach the light while I use both brakes and tap it into second and keep the clutch lever pulled in. Almost at a complete stop, almost like I was on the way down to plant my left foot, I will tap it into first. I do not get any flutter or kick back from the shifter at that slow a speed.

For what it is worth

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by Gyrobob on 09/21/12 at 12:38:36

The safest and easiest-on-the-drive-train thing to do (when coming to a full stop) is to start downshifting while holding the clutch in, keeping the transmission in a gear that is correct for the speed you happen to be slowing through at that moment.

You DO pay a lot of attention to what is going on behind you when you are slowing down, Riiiight??!! More than a few times (in my 52 years of motorcycling) I have had to vacate an area a cager was about to claim,.. I was very fortunate (maybe even skilled) to be in the correct gear, and looking in the rear view mirrors in those several situations.

Anyway, if all you are doing is shifting down because you are coming to a stop, letting the clutch out in each gear is silly, and wears out very expensive stuff a little more rapidly. Brake pads are cheap, and can be installed in 20 minutes.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by WD on 09/21/12 at 13:25:18

I downshift like I was driving a big rig. But, that's how I was taught. Do what feels right, just make sure you don't get hung up in neutral or false neutral...

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by verslagen1 on 09/21/12 at 13:45:42

7F78697B616560607F0C0 wrote:

[quote author=2E0D0507040D0D0413610 link=1348246280/0#2 date=1348246879]
Downshifting into second or first is VERY VERY HARD on your clutch dog faces, so don't you be a doing that .....

Downshifting to 4th and to 3rd are non-damaging and are quite commonly done as engine braking is very effective on this bike.

So what you are saying is don't release the clutch when downshifting to 2nd or first, just slow down with the brakes?
Tanks.[/quote]
This really depends on how skilled you are. If you can do it smoothly, go for it. If it's herky jerky, don't... you're banging the hell outta those dogs.
I can't get the hang it myself, using the clutch.

for ease of shifting while you're coasting down, rather than having the clutch disengaged all the way, feather it a bit. This keeps things moving so the dogs align quicker.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/12 at 20:33:51

To practice clutchless, work between 4th & 5th. Not a lot of RPM difference there.

To go from 4th to 5th, toe under shifter, contact, but not enough pressure to shift, Slap the gas shut & lift the toe & gas it.

5th down to 4th, not accelerating, not decelrating, engine not pulling, engine not being pulled, step down & give it a slight goose to match RPM, let off the gas.
When you can do that w/o trying, then you can hit 3rd & 2nd. I do not recommend ever trying to make 1st. Just too much RPM difference & the engine has the gearing against the driveline. Too easy to lurch the heck out of it,

Im pretty good at clutchless shifting, & its not something I was willing to risk messing it up over. I made it a few times, smoothly, but the occasional poorly timed one was enough to shy me away,.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by stewmills on 09/21/12 at 20:39:46

485751564B4C7D4D7D45575B10220 wrote:

This may be a silly question (forgive the newbie) but why clutchless shift anyway? Is it just a guy thing to be able to do it so we can say we can. I am a bit too anal about taking care of all my toys (and I get made fun of for it and am guilty as charged) and I don't think I want to risk slinging clutch parts out on the highway. I do remember accidentally doing it on my MSF bike several times, but I didn't care because it was a rental ;D

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/12 at 20:42:33

& did it blow up?

Why do it? Because once ya get good at it, you can shift faster, you dont use the cable or the throw out cam or slip the clutch at all,, If Im seeing how fast I can get to 60, I dont use the clutch after im in 2nd gear & I can fly thru the gears, smoothly.

Title: Re: Downshifting effects on the engine/tranny?
Post by rfw2003 on 09/21/12 at 20:47:11

Ask any truck driver why they do clutchless shifting.

If done properly it's much faster and smoother, plus there is less wear on parts that way.

R.F.