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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> cam chain drive gear /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1348154629 Message started by lordfog on 09/20/12 at 08:23:48 |
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Title: cam chain drive gear Post by lordfog on 09/20/12 at 08:23:48 Input please.... I have a 96 that the PO spent $1400 (at a shop) fixing damage from valves meeting piston... He rode it some after then had carb issues... back to shop and decided too much $$... and thats when I purchase not running "as is" <5K on ODO ... Tore into carb and cleaned and massaged a badly buggered up air mixture screw into compliance, she fired right up :) did not get to ride because tires etc. And after browsing this site I thought it would be prudent to open her up and check cam chain & tensioner bla... bla... When I opened the cover I was greeted to small pieces, later determined to be part of the cam chain drive gear upon further inspection that gear is ready to explode :'( The pieces are the flared side to the case. I don't can't find any documentation here about frailty of the cam chain drive gear :o HELP Browsing around the web I've found numerous images of people holding the same shattered pieces I found in my inspection. I have a Chinese replacent gear :-/ to install... Should I seek/use another option? PS upon opening her up... Other than the gear fragments she looked spotless and in great shape 8-) (That said) I'm going to check the top end ie head bolt torque and missing or misplaced parts per this web sites tips. I would appreciate any input on any of the above :) |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/12 at 09:01:52 Well foggy, I'm a bit unclear as to what you're explaining... a pic would help. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by Paraquat on 09/20/12 at 09:30:55 Only speculation... This is an interference motor and when the valves were greeted by the piston the whole she-bang came to a grinding halt and the shock must've shattered the gear that drives the cam chain. That whole "object in motion" law. So now he has a Chinese gear but he probably feels the same way that I do about junk made in China. --Steve |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by lordfog on 09/20/12 at 09:58:03 Question, are the Cam chain drive gears a weak spot on this scoot... As is the stretching cam chain. The scoot was all together and "ridable" except for carb issues. PO was NOT a wrench and relied on taking to a shop for repairs of any sort... So due to this he could not start it for me... So when I got her running... I could have gone for a test ride... but was leery of the wrenching PO had paid to have done... thus I pulled off the clutch cover and found the breaking/broken cam chain drive gear... (this blog saved me from going for that ride and potentially lunching the engine again (especially you verslagen1) :) DID THE WRENCH PUT IN OLD GEAR WHEN REPLACING CAM CHAIN AND NOT NOTICE STRESS CRACK??? I don't know... for the $1400 PO paid to have dammage repaired I expected all new chain, valves, gear and maybe piston? Is this as clear as fog? |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by lordfog on 09/20/12 at 10:04:43 As far as pic's go I'm a newbie as how to post any thing on the web... I'd like to do simple things like use "QUOTES" on this site...give me some time I'll get her all figured out and I'll make you all sick of me! |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/12 at 10:06:37 252C3131262A242B2D22430 wrote:
The only mention I can recall of a drive gear being busted was with use of an impact wrench to install. Perferred method is to hand torque everything. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by lordfog on 09/20/12 at 10:11:35 Here is somebody's pic's http://www.mywinterproject.com/projects/savage/savage.htm |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by lordfog on 09/20/12 at 10:21:03 Impact wrench.... That explains a lot. THANK YOU!!! So the cases & pic's I've seen posted els-wear do not alarm me any-more. They are either a very small percentage of the gears or are shock damaged from installation technique etc. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by lordfog on 09/20/12 at 10:32:34 That explains why I couldn't find any cam chain drive gear specifik posts. Can I remove the cam chain drive gear assembly with-out removing the clutch? :-/ |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/12 at 11:32:28 I read thru the link you gave, the guy has it wrong, mere chain loads won't bust that gear. If he had a decompression problem, it's more likely that he would have starter gear problems or just plain won't start. That gear was struck, dropped or over torqued. And no, you gotta remove the clutch basket to get at the primary gear. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by Cavi Mike on 09/20/12 at 16:56:56 He said the timing chain snapped. If that happened, it could take out just about anything spinning. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/12 at 17:17:14 0A283F200420222C490 wrote:
His reasoning for it snapping is what I meant. Quote:
Still believe the gear snapped 1st. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by Oldfeller on 09/20/12 at 18:44:24 3203100313170316620 wrote:
I have to disagree with this whole chain of logic. At 8.5 to 1 with no valve clearance cuts needed in the piston top and no list history of valves ever hitting piston tops during cam train break downs I think the mechanic simply wanted $1,400 of the P.O.'s money and by golly he got it. Did he return all the damaged parts to the P.O.? Just curious ..... +1 to Verslagen, the gear was cracked by your mechanic doing something he shouldn't have. Cam train gear sprockets are HARDENED powdered metal and are "relatively" more brittle, not strong and ductile to take crush type events in stride. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/12 at 20:05:28 Ive put mine on w/ an impact twice. I just happen to have enough sense to not Ram the nut home full throttle & once it is home, just a couple of short blips to torque it..REad the book, note the torque specs, use the tool accordingly, |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by Paraquat on 09/21/12 at 06:12:27 1F3C3436353C3C3522500 wrote:
252C3131262A242B2D22430 wrote:
I only based my assumptions off what he originally posted. Who knows what could happen with enough slack, or if the tensioner let go, or even if it were out of time at 6000 RPM. Or who knows what really happened. --Steve |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by LouSiana on 09/21/12 at 07:30:56 If the cam chain jumps over one position, nothing dramatic happens, except "dramatic" losses of hp. Only if the cam chain leaps second time, then you get "oh, drama" with valves and piston. I only know of broken cam chain drive sprocket from overtorqueing or abuse of impact wrenches by reinstallation of the primary drive. But, since that sprocket is hardened, it is possibly thrown on the floor accidentally and therefore it got a shot. Torqueing down then may gave him the lethal hit. Since I own an electric impact wrench, I only use it to loosen those nuts and bolts, never ever to torque them. I do not trust its display. |
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Title: Re: cam chain drive gear Post by lordfog on 09/21/12 at 11:15:31 8-) We drove 300 miles to purchase the "96" savage the PO was asking $900 & settled for $600 a hard negotiation... so I didn't have the heart to be too pushy on grilling him on the history... so the broken parts will remain a mystery...And the reason I posted the link was the pic of the brocken cam drive gear... look at two of the smaller pieces... as an example of what I found when removing clutch cover. A short version of story: title was not in his name yet, scoot was rough sun damage, oxydation, rotten bald tires, missing pass seat, beat up fuel tank, would not start although it would crank etc. etc. :'( If it did indeed have a cam chain failure it may be the winner of the lowest millage failure w/4555K on the ODO. Poor scooter had original rear bald tire with much cosmetic dammage else-wear I think lots & lots of people had the chance for first rides & learning experiences at her expense, SHE AIN'T PRETTY BUT SHE SHURE WAS UGLY :-X She's looking better now and is being nursed back from the edge of the bone yard. Thank you all for your valuable INPUT!!! PS I was also in a big hurry & bizzy when purchasing because I chose to transport her in the boot of an HHR :o And yes... ;D remove tires & handle bar and We shoe-horned her in the rear of the HHR! foggy |
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