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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347636144 Message started by WeWontBlink on 09/14/12 at 08:22:23 |
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Title: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/14/12 at 08:22:23 I got my first bike ('06 S40) a few months ago, and I've been lurking here ever since. I have a problem I need to ask about. I've got a fuel starvation symptom at all speeds, even idle. It begins right away after the bike is started. The bike can be ridden, but sometimes it dies, sometimes it doesn't. But while riding it's like it is not getting enough fuel...through all the gears. I've checked the fuel line, cleaned the air filter, and done the petcock test. Those didn't help. I thought for sure it would be a petcock issue after reading about all the trouble here. I'm an extreme newb mechanically but hoping to change that with this bike. I need advice where to look next. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by verslagen1 on 09/14/12 at 08:55:14 check the float level attach a clear tube to the drain and flex it up beside the carb open the drain and watch the fluid level come up should stop at the bowl gasket with the bike verticle and the petcock to prime. other possibles, clogged gas cap vent, spiders in carb bowl vent tubes. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by bill67 on 09/14/12 at 10:48:49 6F5D6F57564C7A54515653380 wrote:
They run lean stock,I would try some Sea Foam in the gas to clean and lube the carb. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/14/12 at 12:02:45 Make sure youve got it idling high enough to keep oil in the cam bearings. How many miles on it? What happens if you pull the choke 1/2 way? All the way? How many miles have YOU put on it? Has it been like this the whole time? Toss out some details, s[pend some time typing, |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/14/12 at 12:53:26 253621203F3234363D62530 wrote:
Thanks for the input. I wil definately try these things when i get off work. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/14/12 at 14:24:34 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
Well, when I started the bike the other day I could tell right away there was a problem, but I drove it anyway. I got 1/2 mile down the road and it died. After about 1 min of trying, I got it started again, but it died when I tried to drive. So I trailered it home. Since then, it is starting much easier than when I was on the side of the road. Almost normally. I have taken it out for 1-2 mile jaunts to test it after I did the petcock test and cleaned the air filter (which was still really clean). It has not died again, but the bike sort of struggles along. When I kick up the idle with the carb screw it seems to idle without issue, but the problems are still there as soon as I start moving. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by stewmills on 09/14/12 at 16:06:23 I doubt this is your issue, but I will share my experience just for giggles. I was new to a bike (recently) and thought I had enough fuel in the tank to make some test rides, and purposely left it nearly empty because I knew I would have to drain and pull the tank as soon as I got back to the garage. Anyway, I had several episodes on test rides with the bike spitting and sputtering and (from experimenting) had to turn it to reserve to make it home. I thought it was a bad carb setting or an issue with the vacuum line on the carb/petcock because that is what I was tinkering with and testing. Come to find out, the tank just didn't have enough gas in it to operate off reserve...hence, it was doing exactly as designed. Lesson learned is that what I think is enough fuel to be beyond reserve isn't the same as what the bike thinks, and if I don't want to walk, I'll go by the bike's rules. :P |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/14/12 at 16:38:51 Next time it gives you that feeling of "Im starving for gas",, give it 1/2 choke & see how it acts, Then full, if 1/2 doesnt give you anything. May not do hoot, since it adds fuel instead of restricting air. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by LouSiana on 09/15/12 at 03:46:24 I once had an issue, nearly the same. First the bike won't go beyond abt. 50 mph and then sputtered heavily. Then the speed decreased more and more I could go. At last, I could hardly act the throttle any little bit without bangs and sputter. I knew something must be in the carb bowl going on. When I looked there to see what it is, I found a birch tree seed which had settled in the main jet. It must have got in through the venting tubes, which were correctly placed in the square frame liner. I also know, small condense water parts, separated and stirred up by vibrations, may settle in the jets and can't get through because of their surface tension. I had this issue several times on another bike. Then just drained the carb bowls after tapping the carbs with a screwdriver handle and I could go on again. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/15/12 at 08:10:00 564552534C4147454E11200 wrote:
A clogged gas cap vent (which I didnt even know existed) really caught my attention because a couple of days ago the gas cap "hissed" for 3 or 4 seconds like it was letting off pressure from the tank. I hadn't heard this before and attributed it to the changes I made for the petcock test. So I checked this first. I don't really know what to look for but I think everything is OK here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/87238306@N03/7988345776/in/photostream The pic shows the pulled apart gas cap. There are 2 holes. One is blocked with a foam insulation, the other with the little ball in it is completely clean. This is the vent, correct? |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by verslagen1 on 09/15/12 at 08:40:03 yeah, 1's a inny and the other is an outty. I don't how the others are cleaning it, perhaps spray it with carb cleaner. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by arteacher on 09/15/12 at 13:00:07 Spray it with carb cleaner and make sure the ball rattles. Also completely disassemble and make sure all the twisty channel cast into the cap is clean. Turn the gaskets over as well. That hissing is a guaranteed sign that there is something wrong with the venting. I speak from experience. ::) |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Digger on 09/15/12 at 20:27:54 We, If you try the other stuff mentioned above, and still no joy, try swapping the spark plug for a new one...... IHTH! |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/17/12 at 10:14:30 343F3F363A35342E2F5B0 wrote:
Well I took apart the cap and cleaned it super good. The thick gasket was pretty hard on one side. I flipped it over. Problems are still there, though. It died on me again when I went for a test ride. Don't think this is my problem...although it did "hiss" at me a few days ago. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Dave on 09/17/12 at 11:24:38 Put a hose on the bottom of the carb drain spigot and run it into to a container. Then set the petcock to PRI and see if you get a steady fuel flow into the container. This will test the flow out of the tank, through the petcock filters, the fuel hose and the needle and seat of the carb and into the float bowl. You should get a steady trickle. I will time it on my bike and let you know how long it takes to drain 16 oz....that will give you an idea if your flow is normal. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Serowbot on 09/17/12 at 13:26:03 A friend of mine recently had similar symptoms... It turns out, he had removed the tank, and when connecting it back up,... he connected a vent tube to the petcock instead of the vacuum line... Have you played with any lines lately?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/17/12 at 14:33:53 485E49544C59544F3B0 wrote:
No, well not until I had this issue. All I've done since then is check the fuel line and do the petcock test. I'm going to start looking at the carb tonight. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Oldfeller on 09/17/12 at 17:23:29 Wewon'tblink, You really haven't tried anything that has been suggested except the petcock test and cleaning your gas cap? Go back to that petcock test for a moment and kindly tell us exactly what you did when you did the petcock test and what you saw as results ..... ===================== It strikes me that Wewon'tblink is way way way behind the current suggestion curve, guys. You might want to back up your thoughts to what he has actually DONE and told you something about, and you might want to back him up to the petcock test and verify he actually did it correctly before you have him tearing his carb apart. That one test is supposed to cut the world of troubles in half, making half the issues moot. Since he never told you squat about what he did and what he saw, you are all shooting in the dark here (and not hitting very much). You certainly haven't cut the world of troubles in half, now have you? And now you've got him tearing his carb apart ..... ????? :-/ I do believe I have caught out the lot of you helper types ASSUMING that the boy had done all that you had suggested --- and he hasn't. You are building on chains of fact that are really vaporwear leading you off into "repair suggestions" that aren't based on anything about his bike's results (mebbe based your bike or your past history though). Make him tell you exactly what he does and what he sees when he does it -- many newbies don't understand what you are suggesting and they will misread a test procedure too for the very same reason. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Dave on 09/17/12 at 17:50:11 704B4651404C57514A424F50230 wrote:
I just did the test to see how much fuel flows from the drain on the carb. I put a piece of hose over the drain, and ran it into my ratio rite that was marked at 16 oz. It took right at 1 minutes 30 seconds to drain out 16 oz. for the float bowl. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/12 at 23:32:44 1.5 minutes/ pint gas flow. 3 minutes/quart 12 minutes/gallon. 5 gallons/ hour IF youre getting 50 MPG, you could run 250 MPH & the fuel flow would stay up. Im gonna say fuel flow is Oooookay! :D :D |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Oldfeller on 09/18/12 at 01:08:21 Justin, slow down. Dave's fuel flow is great -- Wewon'tblink's fuel flow is a total unknown. Wewon'tblink hasn't done the test yet. Wewon'tblink hasn't reported on ANY of the tests you guys have requested, and yet you want to keep trucking merrily along as if he has. I don't think Dave is delusional, he has provided a good testing tool that assumes the newbie actually did the Serowbot Test correctly and now the newbie can test the complete Prime through flow of the entire system against a known benchmark (which itself is based on a full tank of gas providing X vertical pressure). When Wewon'tblink actually DOES it that is .... Key words are "assumes the newbie actually did the Serowbot Test correctly" -- Wewon'tblink hasn't reported on ANY of the tests you guys have requested, and yet you keep trucking merrily along as if he has. Not reading the thread, not keeping back reading to verify what the newbie has done and not done --- these are major flaws for someone who is helping a struggling newbie. This is like the 5th or 6th time you helper type persons' enthusiasm has gotten way way ahead of your new person's reality. Take a deep breath and let Wewon'tblink catch up with Dave. I begin to suspect that the boy hasn't carefully read and carefully done all the very simple details of the Serowbot Test. If he has, then he can certainly type up a description of the test procedure and then tell us exactly what it did to his bike. Also, DOES HE KNOW HE IS SUPPOSED TO LEAVE THE BIKE SET UP FOR THE SEROWBOT TEST WHILE HE DOES THE NEXT SERIES OF TEST ITEMS? DOES HE KNOW HE IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A FULL TANK OF GAS WHILE DOING THESE TESTS? That the rest of the stuff is predicated on a full prime fuel flow with the vacuum system totally blocked off? Until he does these things and reports back, STOP --- give him time to catch up. :-/ ..... and how many times have newbies done about half of the Serowbot test steps, or done them with an almost empty tank of gas, then took it all apart and put it back to stock vac petcock plumbing and then stumbled terribly through the next set of suggestions because they simply didn't understand what they were supposed to be doing -- that's on you guys for not making them report and on you guys for not telling them EXACTLY what to do, step by step. And for way too many people talking to them at the same time, saying completely different things (chasing completely different rabbits). |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/12 at 05:02:22 I wasnt talking to WWB, I read your last post, relax. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/18/12 at 08:02:56 486B6361626B6B6275070 wrote:
I simply followed serowbot's test. I pulled the vacuum line off of the carb and checked for fuel in the line. It was clean. Then capped the port on the carb and stuck a golf tee in the line with a clamp. Set to prime, and went for a ride. The symptoms were still there, although it seemed to run a little better at higher speeds. Quote:
Very true. I'm in the middle of a move right now. I think I was a little premature in posting the question because the suggestions are flowing in and I just can't find time to try any of these that would take me more than a few minutes, which is why I've only played with the fuel cap. So I trailered the bike to a friend of a friend this morning. He's an auto mechaninc that works on bikes in his spare time. I printed him a copy of this thread for reference. I'll let everyone know what the problem was. Quote:
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Oldfeller on 09/18/12 at 10:36:57 On the Serowbot Test, there are some past issues with the petcock lever position that have come up before. There is a little cast in place arrow on the lever itself, that cast arrow is what points to Prime, not the lever itself (in some cases). The petcocks have come from different suppliers over the 30 years the bike has been in production, apparently. Some vac petcocks do seem to have that arrow on the lever pointing 180o out of sync with some newperson's expectations, and it has caused them a lot problems in doing the tests. ===================== The fact "it got a little better" tends to suggest you have a mildly malfunctioning vac petcock and you should run the bike in the Serowbot Test Mode on all future diagnostic tests (if you don't you are screwed as all tests assume a free supply of gasoline at all speeds). ===================== Now, me, I am a purist and not patient with vac petcocks at all -- I would tell you to yank the durn vacsucker petcock off there and put on a Raptor (takes out over half the issues we have seen in the past immediately and they don't ever come back to haunt you). Then after you ran it for a few weeks and still had some lingering issues, we'd try again from that cleaner starting point without all the "petcock noise" cluttering up the situation. But, that is up to you, you certainly can proceed in Serowbot Test Mode. If you choose later to put it back to vac function, do yourself a favor and replace that little thin vac hose with something more substantial. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Charon on 09/18/12 at 15:56:02 That's the second time Bill has suggested Seafoam, aka Snakeoil. There is nothing in Seafoam that will do a better job of cleaning and lubricating the carburetor than plain, fresh gasoline. Check for yourself - enter some terms such as "Seafoam MSDS" into your very favorite search engine, and find out what is in it. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by verslagen1 on 09/18/12 at 17:26:19 Snakefoam may not be your favorite, but several bysides bill can disagree. And besides, plenty of fresh gas goes thru my carb and it hasn't cleaned it yet. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/20/12 at 12:57:09 Got the bike back from the mechanic yesterday. He said it was "trash in the carb". It is running much better now, although I can still feel it struggle a little...mostly in first gear. I'll probably run some Seafoam through it next. Another concern though...it backfired 3 times over the course of about 2 minutes and then died at about 60mph last night..it's never backfired before. I did buy a Raptor petcock when the trouble first started, and I've put that on also. After putting the petcock on I rode it again. It didn't backfire or die this time. Kind of doubt it but is there any way a vac petcock would cause backfire? I'm concerned that when he cleaned the carb something got changed or adjusted that shouldn't have. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Oldfeller on 09/20/12 at 13:10:40 1C2E1C24253F09272225204B0 wrote:
Dude, likely all that was wrong with your bike WAS the vac petcock. What your "mechanic" did going into the carb is actually more likely to do damage than to fix it. But, let's assume (intentionally) that he really found trash in your carb, did he put a fuel filter on your bike to stop it from happening again? No? hmmmmmm .... why not I wonder? ::) |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by WeWontBlink on 09/21/12 at 06:35:37 4F6C6466656C6C6572000 wrote:
Dude, likely all that was wrong with your bike WAS the vac petcock. I'm still getting backfires though, even with the raptor installed. It's happening when the revs are high just before shifting gears. Am I "running lean" as they say? What your "mechanic" did going into the carb is actually more likely to do damage than to fix it. Could be i guess...I'm no bike mechanic. Wish I was right now. But, let's assume (intentionally) that he really found trash in your carb, did he put a fuel filter on your bike to stop it from happening again? No? hmmmmmm .... why not I wonder? ::) You're correct, but I was definately planning on it. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 09:05:43 So, now you are on the road to modding your bike. Yes, backfires are common with a stock bike -- they come from overly lean carb jetting from the factory combined with any mild air leak that may take place in the exhaust system. Tighten the clamp joint at the muffler/header pipe. Lightly tighten (no more than half a turn) the compressible joint between header pipe and head. (more than a half turn is unnecessary and uses up compression gasket space without doing anything useful -- leads to you needing a new gasket earlier than is needed). Those two cap bolts at the the head/header don't require any specific torque figure. They compress a very wide brass tube style gasket that acts like a "stiff marshmallow" to seal off the un-straight connection between pipe and head. If your backfire continues, welcome to the stocker's club. Most stock bikes backfire occasionally, it is especially noted at shut down when you get off the bike and turn it off. Read up on white spacer mod, rejetting, and the other basic mods. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1181745927 Start a new thread once you have the spare time to try to work on your bike. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Serowbot on 09/21/12 at 09:43:21 4F7D4F77766C5A74717673180 wrote:
The vac petcock can very easily cause backfiring... either from being too rich, or too lean... By leaking either fuel, or air, down that vac line and screwing up the mix... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by elitemunkeycrew on 09/21/12 at 10:41:41 I've had similar problems a few days ago with sluggish throttle and I purchased my Raptor petcock and it arrives today. I plan on stopping by Auto Zone on the way home and I need to get some parts. What size vacuum port plug do I need for the carb? What fuel filter would you recommend? What size fuel hose do I need? I would have brought the parts to work to match up at Auto Zone but I wasn't expecting the petcock until tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by Oldfeller on 09/21/12 at 10:50:46 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1211846392/1#1 |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by RidgeRunner13 on 09/21/12 at 11:22:45 I could always tell when I was getting near reserve because the lower fuel pressure made it backfire a lot more. Fill it up & most of the backfiring would be gone again. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Fuel Starvation Symptom - All Speeds Post by EJID on 09/21/12 at 13:45:20 102B26252710372C2C27307371420 wrote:
I thought that was just in my head, but I seem to think it backfires more easily when the tank is on the last 1/4 or so. Glad I was not the only one. |
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