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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Hope and Change /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347101841 Message started by WebsterMark on 09/08/12 at 03:57:21 |
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Title: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/08/12 at 03:57:21 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444273704577635681206305056.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443819404577637653650025944.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop The WSJ has two great articles about the jobs situation. Take the time to read them. We cannot continue the way we are going. The past 4 years have shown the Democratic view is simply incorrect. Those numbers about SS disability and food stamps are unbelivable. There is no reason to continue this administration. I have a daughter graduating with an engineering degree in 4 years. I'd rather have a growing, expanding economy and nation to greet her as opposed to what will be left after 4 more years of this nonsense. How anyone can support the status quo is beyond me. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/08/12 at 04:44:31 Not taxing the rich and cutting the old peoples SS benefits is gonna make everything all better. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Retread on 09/08/12 at 08:17:03 What part of this nation being a hair width from all out depression don't they understand? Then they call up welfare and foodstamp rolls? Sure they will increase, its common sense, in 08-09 jobs were drying up at a rate of 700-900K a month! How are people going to eat? Its like two kids playing with legos, one kid tears down a huge building, and hides some of the pieces, then stands back and crys "He is not building it back fast enough"! .... Gains are gains, the last thing to return in any economy are jobs, we are not going to stimulate growth by giving tax breaks to the rich again, tax rates for the rich are at the lowest point in forty years, WHERE are the jobs? Our economy depends on consumers, the majority of consumers are common folk who have had their wages cut, their Unions destroyed, their jobs sent overseas, and savings decimated.. This was all done by people such as Romney, nothing personal, its about profit.. I would much rather see steady growth, than boom and bust.. The next bust will make 08-09 look like a walk in the park folks.. Romneys plans sound too much like Bush's plans, no thank you... |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Serowbot on 09/08/12 at 10:20:35 182A2D3C3B2A3D022E3D244F0 wrote:
Lack of options... Hope and change... ...or... No hope, and no change... back to the trickle down, war mongering, and de-regulation, that caused this mess... That's an insanely stupid option... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Starlifter on 09/08/12 at 13:44:41 Webster, please explain to us exactly what Rmoney's plan is to instantly create hundreds of thousands of jobs as soon as he is elected...and while you're at it, please tell us how he intends to cut the deficit by cutting taxes and starting another war, this time with Iran. Inquiring minds want to know. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by srinath on 09/08/12 at 14:42:22 Starlifter: Romney's jobs plan is this. As soon as he's elected, he will give his rich friends to go ahead and start hiring, they will instantly hire 2-3 house maids, atleast 2-3 gardeners and a cook or 2. See that's 1000's right there. That would happen right on day 1 after Romney is elected, that is right after he adjusts the minimum wage to 13c and only releases that info to his super rich friends. That also Helps the "Latina" population who are really "concerned with the economy and jobs". The bloody Romney plan is 10X as bad for the non super rich ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/12 at 01:17:55 Theres no measurable difference in the result of either of them having been the pres.. we are headed for the dust bin, neither one is gonna turn us away from the cliff. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by srinath on 09/09/12 at 06:43:29 2B343235282F1E2E1E26343873410 wrote:
I really would modify that to this - We are headed for the dustbin, and with Obama it is intentional, with Romney it is the unintended consequence of tax cuts for the rich and cuts to programs that benefit the rest of us, and the cliff is a mirage and Obama has a better sense of that. Massachusetts moderate - pro abortion before he had to become pro life, pro gun control before he had to become anti gun control, pro govt healthcare before he had to become anti health care ... and overall a liar. Obama seems to have more honesty in him. That even the republicans agree, they claim he's incompetent and Romney is not. I'd however take an honest but incompetent man over a dishonest but competent man. Cool. srinath. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/09/12 at 06:47:32 Not taxing the rich and cutting the old peoples SS benefits is gonna make everything all better. Midnight: no one is talking about not taxing the rich. If you checking account runs out of money, cutting benefits is a foregone conclusion, don’t you think? SS will ‘end as we know it’ on it’s own; would you rather we try to do something or should we just stay with your idea which is as long as Midnight gets his, to hell with everyone else?... |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/09/12 at 06:50:21 I would much rather see steady growth, than boom and bust That’s all well and good Retread except THERE IS NO STEADY GROWTH! That’s the point, it’s going backwards. He has no new idea for his second 4 years so nothing different will happen. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/09/12 at 07:06:34 Webster, please explain to us exactly what Rmoney's plan is to instantly create hundreds of thousands of jobs as soon as he is elected...and while you're at it, please tell us how he intends to cut the deficit by cutting taxes and starting another war, this time with Iran. Inquiring minds want to know. The short version is to give the people back their own money and let the invisible hand take its course. How did we recover from Carter’s disaster? By a million little individual decisions made in the marketplace. It is a phenomenon that cannot be micro managed. How did the US grow to the superpower economically it is (or was)? We had little micromanagement during our ascent yet we somehow managed to do what hadn’t been done before to such a large degree which was to give everyone an opportunity to raise their standard of living. That was unheard of on a large scale before the US came along. What is known is that trying to micro manage such a complex organism as the economy of the US usually does not produce the intended result simply because there are too many ‘moving parts’. Generally speaking, cutting taxes increases overall revenue; raising taxes decreases overall revenue. See California. This is a lesson the left refuses to learn a. I'm not sure about a war in Iran. I think if Israel had confirmation they had or were within a hair of developing a nuke, israel would destroy the complex. If the other countries knew the US and Britain were on board; I don't think anyone else would join in on an attack against Israel. Iran would be no match against Israel in a convention war so the situation would reset itself. Pakistan is a bit of a wild card however which is another reason why no other country should be allowed to develop nukes. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Retread on 09/09/12 at 07:07:36 407275646372655A76657C170 wrote:
You are still living in that bubble, I live on the market, I also watch the job reports religiously. In 08-09 the market took the largest dump since the great depression, it has gained back most of its loss! In 08-09 this nation was shedding jobs at a rate of 500-750K a month! We have seen steady growth in the job market for the last two years. Granted some have dropped off the job grid, but many of those people have become self employed, are working under the radar for relatives, ect.. He does have a plan, he wants to rebuild this nations infrastructure, he want us to change gears from fossil fuels to other energy sources, and he needs to dump the tea baggers in congress to do it... I would say thats better than R@Rs plan, tax breaks for the rich folk, drill all of America, and more military... Haven't we done that, and where did it lead? Oh yea, 08-09...... >:( |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 09:12:30 "Midnight: no one is talking about not taxing the rich." Exxon Mobil has made more money than any corp. in the history of the world! Do they pay any taxes? |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 09:22:04 "SS will ‘end as we know it’ on it’s own; would you rather we try to do something or should we just stay with your idea which is as long as Midnight gets his, to hell with everyone else" Not if we invest our money in our own people (who actually pay for the system) and quit trying to support and police the rest of the world, who by the way hate us. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 09:35:36 "If you checking account runs out of money, cutting benefits is a foregone conclusion, don’t you think?" Yes. If it were my checking account I would cut foreign aid and military spending first. Thats the biggest piece of the pie, would affect my lifestyle the least. Only an idiot would spend more on his neighbors house then he does his own! |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/09/12 at 15:13:43 Retread; it has gained back most of its loss! No, it has not. Most of the jobs gained are much lower paying which is why the wage number is lower. I think I just read somewhere, could find it just now but I’ll look, where the industry that gained the most is restaurant. That’s not the jobs you want to gain. So no, there has not been steady job growth. There is no way to hide the facts; we are going nowhere. Rebuild the nation’s infrastructure? I thought that’s what the last stimulus was for and where did that get us? No where. All we did, to quote Paul Ryan correctly, we Borrowed and wasted almost a trillion dollars. The idea that ‘green energy’ is key to our growth is complete nonsense. Please, please please don’t fall for that line of crap. We’ve been saying that for 10 years now and all we’ve done is spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to create each job. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/09/12 at 15:14:37 Exxon Mobil has made more money than any corp. in the history of the world! Do they pay any taxes? I have no idea what they paid in taxes. I assume you're going to tell me zero. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/09/12 at 15:15:30 cut foreign aid and military spending first. Thats the biggest piece of the pie I don't believe that's true. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 16:06:19 I'll save you some time this once, taken from the Huffington Post. "In 2009, Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits. Not only did Exxon not pay any federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to SEC filings." "2. End tax breaks for big oil and gas companies. Exxon Mobil, the most profitable corporation in the history of the world, not only paid nothing in federal income taxes in 2009, but received a $156 million tax refund from the IRS, according to their own shareholder report." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/end-tax-breaks-for-profit_b_841173.html Its time the rich and the large corporations started paying taxes and consider it the cost of doing business in my country. They use roads, bridges and everything I have to pay for a thousand times over more than I do. Web if you're not aware of this I can understand why you're a Pub. The middle class and the poor are tired of the burden and tired of paying for the filthy rich to get richer. Web are you playing dumb? You're a businessman and read the Wall St Journal. That should be common knowlege to any businessman! |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Starlifter on 09/09/12 at 16:24:55 "No, it has not. Most of the jobs gained are much lower paying which is why the wage number is lower. WM". The federal minimum wage is just $7.25 an hour and hasn't been raised in three years. But a raise is much more overdue than that. If we look at the minimum wage 44 years ago, and simply adjust it for inflation, it would be more than $10 today. This is another ugly symptom of what has gone wrong in America over the last 35 to 40 years. From 1979 to 2007, about 60 percent of the income gains have gone to the now infamous 1 percent at the top, with the majority of those gains going to the top 0.1 percent - people who made, on average, $5.6 million per year. But some of the worst effects of giving more to those who have the most have affected people toward the bottom of the income ladder, and there is no excuse for it. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Retread on 09/09/12 at 16:30:47 What I said is THE MARKET has gained back most of its losses! Jobs are always the last thing to return after severe recession.. You cannot regain the amount of jobs hemorraged over 08-09 in four years.. Look at Japan and the amount of time it took to recover after its severe recession.. THINK, our economy is huge, to turn it around takes awhile, it cannot be done in four years, period.. Yes, I'm better off than I was four years ago, I was sweating my retirement being the shortest in history due to market! The last stimulus just got the rebuilding process started, it basically just kept this nation from going over the edge, most economists say it should have been larger.. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 16:53:39 576562737465724D61726B000 wrote:
http://www.usfederalbudget.us/federal_budget_detail_fy13 Its hard to keep up with military spending right now, last I heard there was close to two trillion unacounted for. Web do I have to look that up for you? We need to put those guys building roads, bridges and dams. Just think about it Web, without roads, bridges and power your rich buddies are gonna have a hard time getting richer. DAH They never think about long term goals because they live and make money for the moment, ex, how manty CEO's last over 5 years? As far as military spending goes we're doing great with just Obama and a Seal Team! Your little Republican sissy who was too chikensh!t to go to war wants to start one immediately.The real American patriots like Star were in Nam doing one hell of a job with what they had to work with, not riding a bicycle around France. One sissy American warmongering president has already put us under, we dont need another one. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by bill67 on 09/09/12 at 18:19:36 When the costs that we are still paying out for WW11 come to a halt it will help some,I have a 92 year old aunt getting payments from the government because are husband was killed in Germany in 1943.Then we have all the soldiers that lost limbs getting up to $200000 a year,That will go on for another 60 years are so. We really can't afford wars. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 18:38:08 Bush declared 2 wars and cut taxes. Wonder if his Daddy got him a passing grade in math class? Now Eddie Munster Ryan wants to come along and cut my SS benefits (that I paid into for over 40 years) to pay for Bush's lies and warmongering. Hell No! Not without a fight! |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by srinath on 09/09/12 at 18:40:36 Oh yea one more 1/2 truth and near complete lie - Carter -> Reagan recovery was due to 2-3 reasons. Under carter the economy actually went down. There was no stimulus. Here the Bushies didn't want to be the 2 recession president and he decided to stimulus. Then the interest rate in 1980 was somewhere around 15%, there is an excellent option when you have 15% interest, you can lower the rate and magically stimulate. Also 15% interest = approximately 15% inflation, so there is just a little spark needed to get the economy going, the demand is almost captive and sitting and waiting ... 15% inflation is huge, we have negative, aka deflation. Then here is the biggie - starwars - look it up. Reagan pretty much was waiting for the aliens to attack and was arming us to take them on. So no, reagan didn't do tax cuts to the wealthy and stimulate the economy. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/09/12 at 19:30:02 Midnight; Huffington Post published data from a calculation method created by a group called Nerd Wallet Markets after Forbes published their list of corporations paying the most taxes. See the list below. Forbes then responded to the Nerd Wallet method of calculation that, being a liberal group, either on purpose or through sheer ignorance, did not take into account how taxes are paid in corporations doing business in multiple countries. Look it up. Not a big surprise, but Huffington Post printed data that was misleading and incomplete, basically a big fat lie. Again, not a surprise. And now you will repeat this lie a 1000 times to the rest of your class warfare friends and the war against the classes will continue until the nation goes bankrupt and you will stupidity sit there and blame the rich guys more. Nice one. 1. ExxonMobil Income taxes paid: $27.3 billion Total revenue: $486 billion Net income: $41 billion Effective tax rate: 42% Data: Thomson Reuters Fundamentals via FactSet Research Systems via Forbess 2. Chevron Income taxes paid: $17.4 billion Total revenue: $254 billion Net income: $26.9 billion Effective tax rate: 43.3% Data: Thomson Reuters Fundamentals via FactSet Research Systems via Forbess 3. ConocoPhillips Income taxes paid: $10.6 billion Total revenue: $251 billion Net income: $12.4 billion Effective tax rate: 45.6% Data: Thomson Reuters Fundamentals via FactSet Research Systems via Forbess 4. JPMorgan Chase Income taxes paid: $8.2 billion Total revenue: $111 billion Net income: $19 billion Effective tax rate: 29.1% Data: Thomson Reuters Fundamentals via FactSet Research Systems via Forbess 5. Wal-Mart Stores Income taxes paid: $5.9 billion Total revenue: $447 billion Net income: $15.7 billion Effective tax rate: 32.6% Data: Thomson Reuters Fundamentals via FactSet Research Systems via Forbess. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 19:33:49 Very true srinath. The interest rate on my first house was 16.5% |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 19:41:49 And I'm supposed to believe Forbes, the Magazine created for billionaires LMAO |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/09/12 at 21:27:36 "blame the rich guys more. Nice one." I blame the rich guys who have offshore accounts to keep from paying taxes. I blame the rich guys who refuse to make their tax records public. I blame the rich guys who go in and take over a company by paying only 5% down, borrowing the rest of the money from Lehman Brothers or Goldman Sachs and giving theirselves millions of dollars in bonuses then leaving the company so far in debt they have no choice but to fire employees. Bain Capitiol comes to mind. "Mitt The Twitt Lie Out of Both Sides Of His Mouth" the perfect posterboy for everything I hate about America. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by WebsterMark on 09/10/12 at 04:18:41 I need a break from you clowns.... |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by srinath on 09/10/12 at 07:21:47 1E3A373D3A343B27213A373621530 wrote:
The coolest thing about that was also these 2-3 factors. If interest was 16.5, guess what houses would be cheaper. The loose $$$ is what drives up costs. The second thing is, paying off double payments etc really really is a huge advantage. And best of all, inflation being around that 16% really helps cos your wages adjust (atleast a little like 8-9%, I knew of people who were so mad they only got a 10% raise they would quit. 2-3 of them do that and the whole company has to re evaluvate their compensation package. You could get a few raises and soon enough your house payments look smaller and smaller in comparison. The fed also can stimulate the economy and still get a return - they lower a 15% to 14% and its like the flood gates open. Fed cant do jack about deflation. They are even less effective against deflation of durable goods, and inflation of consumables. Exactly what we have. Only option is to let china burn itself out, safe guard our labor and talent pool (as in invest in schools, and workers benefits) and when china stops buying our bonds we simply print $ and use it to buy and run our economy. The first real step out of this mess is going to come on the back of china. Its fine, they sent us to this hole, they can be the stepping stone out of it. Oddly, - really oddly cos Bain Capital sent tons of jobs to china - Obama knows this better than Romney does. Or maybe the fact that he wants to get elected so bad he'd even remove his brain and install a loud speaker in its place tuned to the Rush radio netwok ... Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by srinath on 09/10/12 at 07:23:37 427077666170675874677E150 wrote:
Yes you do, and I'd suggest you use it to pull your head out of your ... cos the light you see in there isn't the proverbial light @ the end of the tunnel, its Rush Limbaugh's crack pipe. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by splash07 on 09/10/12 at 10:50:18 0D3F38292E3F28173B28315A0 wrote:
Trust me when I say we need a beak from you, this country needs a break from people like you. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/10/12 at 12:13:34 3F3C202D3F247C7B4C0 wrote:
Trust me when I say we need a beak from you, this country needs a break from people like you. [/quote] Romney made a living evading taxes, running up massive debt and firing people. They say we need a businessman for president? ::) |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by srinath on 09/10/12 at 13:42:19 54707D77707E716D6B707D7C6B190 wrote:
Trust me when I say we need a beak from you, this country needs a break from people like you. [/quote] Romney made a living evading taxes, running up massive debt and firing people. They say we need a businessman for president? ::) [/quote] Darn tootin we do >:( Seriously a country should not ever be run like a for profit corporation. It should not even be run like a modern non profit organisation. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/10/12 at 16:43:37 3A3B2027283D21490 wrote:
Trust me when I say we need a beak from you, this country needs a break from people like you. [/quote] Romney made a living evading taxes, running up massive debt and firing people. They say we need a businessman for president? ::) [/quote] Darn tootin we do >:( Seriously a country should not ever be run like a for profit corporation. It should not even be run like a modern non profit organisation. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] Well,, at least in my lifetime, it hasnt been & Looky how well we are doin,, How Should it be run? With no concern for solvency? If that how, we otta be doin GReat, cuz thats how its been run,, If a man ran his household the way this country has been run, he would first go bankrupt, then to jail, |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Retread on 09/10/12 at 16:56:43 For one, the government is not a business, it is a service. It will have ups and downs in deficit that move with the nations economy, it is not a for profit enity.. It should act with a responsibility to the people, and it should also have a responsibility to be always strive to be solvent. What it should not have is political pandering, corporate pandering, and corruption.. No one group should influence the service to the people... |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/10/12 at 20:38:37 No one group should influence the service to the people... If only one did.. Its past being something one can even count.. But, I get ( & agree with) your point, |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by Midnightrider on 09/11/12 at 01:40:25 Going back to Web saying the rich should have to pay taxes, I just found out about a five story building in the Cayman Islands that is home to 18,000 American based corporations. I not allowed to say what I really think right now, but who is Web trying to kid ::) |
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Title: Re: Hope and Change Post by thumperclone on 09/14/12 at 22:43:03 7A5E53595E505F43455E535245370 wrote:
hes only fooling himself |
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