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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
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Message started by Gyrobob on 09/07/12 at 12:52:37

Title: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Gyrobob on 09/07/12 at 12:52:37

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by verslagen1 on 09/07/12 at 13:51:54

did you pour in the recommended amount of oil?

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Spamy on 09/07/12 at 14:18:57

I add about 1/2 quart more than recommended to compensate for the difference of the motor angle. I dont want the gearbox to have any less oil.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/07/12 at 15:18:20

635D564B464B46240 wrote:

The RYCA conversion tilts the whole bike forward maybe 10 degrees which would make the oil-level sight glass a teense higher in relation to the top surface of the oil. Additionally, the sidestand is rewickered,.. I wonder if that changes anything for a check of the sight glass while on the stand. Yep it does.

Anyway, I have the oil level set such that with a hot motor idling, I see a little bit of oil in the sight glass,... maybe 1/16" up from the bottom. This is the HOT TEST that is recommended for all modified bikes. Sounds like you have tried to do the HOT TEST, but it is unclear if you were holding the bike straight up vertical while you checked the running oil level.

A pass condition is being able to see the top oil level at the top of the window while the hot idling bike is being held vertical. You need to do this, and if your window is full remove enough oil so you can see the top level in the window while the hot idling bike is being held vertical.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Gyrobob on 09/07/12 at 19:18:18

756671706F6264666D32030 wrote:

did you pour in the recommended amount of oil?

Yes. 2.5 quarts as specified in the manual. Clymer says 2.2 quarts, I think.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Gyrobob on 09/07/12 at 19:20:45

"Sounds like you have tried to do the HOT TEST, but it is unclear if you were holding the bike straight up vertical while you checked the running oil level."

The bike was vertical. I was on it, holding it vertical, looking at the sight glass with an inspection mirror (mirror on a stick).

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/07/12 at 19:23:39

Sounds like you got it sussed then.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Gyrobob on 09/07/12 at 19:28:39

Just out of curiosity, how low can the oil level go and not cause damage? Let's assume we are cruising at 55 on level ground on a 70 degree day, so extreme heat is not the issue. In this motor, does it have to get down to the point of the oil pump sucking air?

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by bill67 on 09/07/12 at 19:33:32

Have you engine techniplated and you want have to worry about that.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by ZAR on 09/07/12 at 19:36:48

484346461C1D2A0 wrote:

Have you engine techniplated and you want have to worry about that.

OK Bill...I give.... what the hades is "techniplated?

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Gyrobob on 09/07/12 at 19:39:40

I am thinking of having it extrude honed.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/07/12 at 21:11:02

251B100D000D00620 wrote:

Get it pretty low in the window, now go downhill and brake sharply at the stop (you just sucked some air).

Get low in the sump and then rock your oil pool forward sharply and you can expose the oil pump pickup.

Doing it backwards (accelerating uphill) is tougher to do, but it is possible.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by LouSiana on 09/08/12 at 02:46:06

1231202C38410 wrote:

I add about 1/2 quart more than recommended to compensate for the difference of the motor angle. I dont want the gearbox to have any less oil.

You can keep the recommended amount of oil, still it is not bad to have a LITTLE more oil added. A half quart seems to me to be the absolute peak value of oil to be added.

The oil pump sits nearly right in the center of the engine's floor and that's the point all the oil flows back. If you tilt the engine a good bit, nothing changes in this meaning. Only the sight glass moves up!
Fill in the recommended amount, add a bit and make some new marks for the oil level.

The gearbox, crankshaft and all this is provided with oil from the oil pump, so don't matter about this in case of tilting the engine a bit. The gears don't use oil from the oil sump by paddling in it. The bearings are fed from the oil gallery, and by leaving them it sprays around, and that way it lubricates the gears and shifting mechanism.

And what you see in the glass when the bike is idling is flowing oil which just left the gearshafts and being centrifugated by the clutch.
It is not an oil level. By tilting the engine the visible flow may change a bit, nothing else.

Every engine must overcome short times without oil pressure. Hard accelerations and quick stops belongs to that as well as starting the engine. Manageable moments for ball bearings anyway, but care of the camshaft journal bearings!
Running them without oil for period will ruin them quickly. So care for your oil level your own.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by ralfyguy on 09/08/12 at 06:06:09

Makes one wonder why the cam didn't get roller bearings like everything else on the motor that turns.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/08/12 at 07:08:10

Drop rear wheel in a low spot, front on a high spot, whatever, frame angle "stock", check oil, then look at where it is on level ground.
We've seen people add oil till they could see it in the window when it was on the side stand, no damage.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by BuckRYCA on 09/08/12 at 07:21:54

Yes, I do what JOG suggested. I use the slope of my driveway leading into the garage to put the rear wheel lower by about 1.5" than level on my Ryca. Then fill to near the high mark on the sight window while holding bike vertical. The Ryca has an 18" rear rim versus 15" stock, so I figure I'm in the ballpark. It's worked for 6K miles since the conversion a year ago June.

At the risk of an oil war, I'll note that I use Rotella (sometimes dino, but mostly synthetic). I've put 48K miles on three different Suzukis in the past 7 years using Rotella with no issues and no apparent cam wear.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by LouSiana on 09/08/12 at 13:28:03

50434E445B45575B220 wrote:

Makes one wonder why the cam didn't get roller bearings like everything else on the motor that turns.

...limits in construction. It would make the head of the engine about 1" higher and longer in horizontal. Orientation of the valves had to be different (how they are actually placed is near the optimum) Then the frame had to be larger as a result. OK, it could be still a Savage or a S40 but a bit larger.

Another point: The camshaft has two and a half bearings. The outer ones could me made as roller bearing or needle bearing. But not the middle one without giving the camshaft a different construction. The middle bearing has to bear the most burden and has to avoid oscillations. Therefore it mus be that large.

...and at least, a slide bearing isn't that bad at all! It just needs an assured lubrication. Like other bearings do, too.

Last, when talking about oil, don't only think of lubrication, think about heat dissipation, too. Just another reason to care about the oil level, -quality and aging of it...

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/08/12 at 13:38:39

OIl level is important. As it gets lower on oil,That oil is hotter. Whoever it was that decided to try filling with oil to the low mark in the window while its on the stand did a good thing,As long as oil stays off the crank at the bottom of the stroke, things are good.

Thats correct, innit?

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/12 at 13:49:26

Yup, it is correct. More oil is better, up until that point it tries to get up over the crank splash shelf anyway.

And you have the hot test to protect you from that. Each modified bike needs to be hot checked by its owner at least once on flat level ground to verify the fill level & check method the owner is using.

===============

What is really dangerous is running out of oil, which the standard Suzuki oil check method puts you too close to that dangerous neighborhood, especially with a bike that commonly sips some oil between oil changes like our Big Single is known to do ....

;)

Using the standard Suzuki method on a highly modified frame bike sure doesn't make a lot of sense, now does it? I mean, you changed too much wheel & frame-wise to make the standard check "meaningful", right?

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by ralfyguy on 09/08/12 at 15:50:58

So i saw oil on the bottom of the window gurgling about when holding the bike upright idling. That is what you suggested it should be like?

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/12 at 17:39:09

This is the HOT TEST that is recommended for all modified bikes.

A pass condition is being able to see the top oil level at the top of the window while the hot idling bike is being held vertical. You need to do this, and if your window is full remove enough oil so you can see the top level in the window while the hot idling bike is being held vertical.

So, you set the cold oil level using your sidestand and your oil window --- and then you check it with a HOT CHECK to make sure the resulting expanded hot oil isn't too much.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by BuckRYCA on 09/11/12 at 17:16:45

I performed the hot test Oldfeller recommended.
With engine cold and bike vertical, I observed the oil level at two-thirds in the sight window.
Then after running the bike, with the bike vertical, the level at idle was just about the same.
My Ryca has the stock size front tire and the 18" rear tire supplied in the kit.

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by Oldfeller on 09/11/12 at 17:21:28

Beautiful, then your oil setting system and your running oil level both are in agreement and are both of them "good to go".

Title: Re: Oil level for RYCA modified LS650?
Post by BuckRYCA on 09/12/12 at 07:03:41

Yes, it's a good thing. I believe Ryca owners can set their oil levels with the bike cold and vertical and on a horizonal surface to just below the 'F' line near the top of the sight window and all will be well.