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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
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Message started by Gyrobob on 09/02/12 at 18:54:26

Title: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Gyrobob on 09/02/12 at 18:54:26

Will the four-leading shoe front brake from the GT-750 fit a Savage? I'm wondering about axle diameter and distance between the forks. I realize there would be a lot of work needed for bracketry, lever, cable, etc., even if it DID fit.

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by verslagen1 on 09/02/12 at 19:06:36

axles are the same, 15mm

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by teabowl13 on 09/02/12 at 19:44:38

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by ralfyguy on 09/02/12 at 21:38:56

I'm not sure it would be even a good idea. I got the front tire to squeak on several occasions and still had lever to spare. A more powerful caliper would just lock it up sooner. Not to offend anyone and I like ideas how do adapt stuff to the Savage, just don't know about a stronger brake in this case. The Savage is a real light bike to begin with.

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/12 at 03:10:50

Yea, I hear about "Upgrade the front brake", but I can make the front tire chirp. I know I do not want to make it slide,

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Gyrobob on 09/03/12 at 06:54:50

Somebody here said that it would... I considered it for a hot minute, but I've got too much on my plate at the moment, and they are hard to come by and expensive on Ebay (I was watching one that was almost $400...) I would suspect that the two-shoed version would work as well, but it's not such a good brake.

Yes, these are expensive. The one on ebay right now is pushing $500. Compare that, though, to the 1,000 to 3,000 dollar range for Ceriani or Grimeca versions currently available.

I'm not sure it would be even a good idea. I got the front tire to squeak on several occasions and still had lever to spare. A more powerful caliper would just lock it up sooner. Not to offend anyone and I like ideas how do adapt stuff to the Savage, just don't know about a stronger brake in this case. The Savage is a real light bike to begin with.

No, for all practical reasons it is NOT a good idea, but this 4LS brake is not a very powerful front brake, considering. When I first got my Savage, I checked out the front brake performance pretty well just to see what was there. The spongy lever would come all the way back to the grip with the front tire not making any noise at all. After a 30-minute brake bleeding session, things improved quite a bit. A serious pull on the lever would lock up the front wheel, sliding the tire, and not come anywhere close to doing a "brakie" since the front tire was a piece of crap. I rode a GT-750 a few times back in the 70s and remember that brake as being barely able to lock up the front wheel,.. and I don't remember anything about fade resistance. The stock Savage front disc impresses me as being pretty good for Savage-style duty,.. light weight, clean looking, and powerful enough. For a Savage converted to a much lighter RYCA bike, the stock disc should be nearly a high-performance item, I would think. I'm hoping the same effect for this Water Buffalo 4LS brake, if I decide to go that way.

Yea, I hear about "Upgrade the front brake", but I can make the front tire chirp. I know I do not want to make it slide,

This wouldn't be done as an "upgrade." It would simply be a "period statement" for this pseudo cafe racer, the RYCA CS-1. When I was growing up, 4LS front brakes were hot stuff. I would use this brake for the same reason I put Avon Speedmasters on the thing. My first new bike, a Norton 750 Atlas, had Avon Speedmasters. They were the big deal, tire-wise, in 1965.

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Gyrobob on 09/03/12 at 07:01:14

One other reason I am considering a cable-operated brake is that I would be able to use 2" shorter handle bars on the clip-ons. In the standard RYCA configuration, the bars are pretty wide as is, and when you install bar-end signals like I did (or use bar end mirrors) the "look" is not in character with a '60s cafe racer. The bars have to be that wide to make room for the Savage front brake master cylinder.

Using a cable operated brake would allow the right bar to be maybe 2" shorter.

I'd probably shorten the left bar, as well. ;D

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Serowbot on 09/03/12 at 08:10:53

0E303B262B262B490 wrote:

I'd probably shorten the left bar, as well. ;D

Cool!... symmetricalness... ;D...

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by ralfyguy on 09/03/12 at 11:51:32

You know I find myself looking at other brake caliper to see if they would mount up without modifications. So far I've only seen one, and that is the one from the GZ250. It is the same caliper. ;D
And then I ask myself: What for?
Well I guess it's just to have something different. So i understand what Gyrobob is doing.
The one thing that makes me wanna try something different is the fact that my stock brake is constantly dragging. I tried everything I could think of to make it retract properly from new fluid and bleeding the heck out of it to cleaning everything, lubing the pins with silicone grease, new pad retainer springs and I even put on another caliper with the same result. After applying the brake and release, the caliper let's go, but not completely. The piston goes in fairly easy, I can push it in with both of my hands and thumbs. So it isn't sticking. I noticed that the bigger pin that just slides in the aluminum housing kinda jambs a little in there and needs a little knock to let go. I also put a new pin on there and the bore in the housing isn't wallered out either. I guess the thing must be designed that way..

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/12 at 12:32:46

Yep,, thats why race cars run Brembo brakes. They are designed to pull the pads away from the disk, saving a fraction of a H/P & allowing better cooling. All disk brakes on consumer products that I can afford just stop grabbing the disk & the pads slightly rub until asked to grab it again,

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Gyrobob on 09/03/12 at 12:46:36

637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:

Just about all car manufacturers now have brakes that don't drag any simply for the extra 0.1mpg gained by no brake drag.

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/12 at 12:52:02

Id be happy to look at that. You got any idea what I should look up?

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by teabowl13 on 09/03/12 at 17:57:25

If you're really looking for the "Period" look, the 4LS brake is gonna be the one for sure. As far as its performance, I'm not familiar with it at all, but if it was sufficient at best for the 3 cylinder 750 Water Buffalo, it could be scary strong on your striped down RYCA Savage...

For nearly the same look, and a whole lot less money, is it worth it to you to consider a 2LS unit? One from a GT550 maybe?

And if you're gonna do all that, you're gonna HAVE to lace up some 18" high shouldered rims to it too... JohninKalifornia and I can tell you all about how much fun that was...

Add and extra $150-$200 per rim, (I actually have an extra rim that would be perfect for you if you want it...) plus $120 for a set of spokes from Buchannan's...

That would be a super HOT set up

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Cavi Mike on 09/04/12 at 07:30:15

Is the width of the GT750 front end the same as the Savage? If it's not, it doesn't matter if the brake will bolt up or if the axle-diameter is the same, the caliper won't clear. You're better off swapping the whole front end. I'm also not sure why you'd need to swap the lever and "cable" over(it's a hose or line, not a cable). The lines aren't welded on, they're bolted on.

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Gyrobob on 09/04/12 at 11:45:43

0A283F200420222C490 wrote:

You are confused. This thing is a 4LS drum brake,... no caliper anywhere near it,... no hose either.

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/12 at 11:53:07

Cavi, 4ls means Four Leading Shoe, leading as opposed to trailing,
In old car drum brakes, one shoe leads, the other follows, since each is actuated from the same end. Multi Leading shoe designs means there is an actuator in more than one place, pressing the shoes out against the drum so that the rotation of the drum is going AT the raised edge of the shoe.
Stick a broomstick in your fist & twist it, proof direction matters, tho it will tend to make ya think opposite of whats happenin inside a drum brake.

Title: Re: Suzuki GT750 Water Buffalo Front Brake
Post by Cavi Mike on 09/05/12 at 03:42:02

Ahh I see. So in other words, it doesn't fit but it does fit. It's one of those typical questions that I think people ask just for the sake of conversation.

So as usual, here's the same response that I seem to repeat over and over again:

If you know what you're doing, everything fits. If you don't know what you're doing, nothing fits.