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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 25 MPG?!?! WTF? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1346628854 Message started by Bobber Fett on 09/02/12 at 16:34:14 |
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Title: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/02/12 at 16:34:14 I've been putting this post off for a while because I've been insanely busy, but with the cold season coming I can drop the engine and do some work on it. I'm getting 25 MPG consistently. It's a 1987 with 21000 miles on it, and I bought it not knowing what has been done to it in the past. When I bought it, it had a problem with a broken decomp solenoid cable, so it was killing a spark plug every 2 weeks. After fixing that, my spark plugs last for ~6-8 months before they go and are black when I pull them. I haven't messed with trying to lean the carb because if I let off the throttle, I get a slight popping that I'm told is a sign the bike is tuned fine (if not a bit lean). The carb has been sonic cleaned within 1000 miles. Any suggestions as to where to start looking fellow savages? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Routy on 09/02/12 at 16:38:37 Anytime you're using too much fuel, and smokin spark plugs, why not do Sero's petcock test ? Or at least plug the vacuum line to the petcock and run it on prime. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Oldfeller on 09/02/12 at 16:48:33 +1 on Routy's suggestion. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1 Serowbot's test takes out half the possible issues with one simple test, then you can focus on in on the half that remains (whichever half that is). |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/02/12 at 17:17:10 I forgot to mention that I'm using a Raptor petcock. Is the Sero's procedure still worth looking at? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by verslagen1 on 09/02/12 at 17:33:45 sounds like it was rejetted way to rich. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/02/12 at 17:45:55 Yeah, since I haven't really touched the jetting, that is definitely a possibility. I have no idea what it was when I bought it. The black spark plugs also support that theory... Any indicators besides the black spark plugs? How long should a spark plug last in a properly tuned savage? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Serowbot on 09/02/12 at 18:04:03 Too rich causes pops, too... I get pops when I go over 7500ft... that elevation makes me rich, and causes pops... You're way too rich... the pops, plus the fowling plugs,.. indicates much richness... ;)... |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Charon on 09/02/12 at 18:07:19 How long should a plug last? Good question. I pulled mine when I did the nominally 11000 mile service. I think it was 10500 miles. If I hadn't already bought a new plug, I would have put the old one back in, and given it no further thought for another 20000 miles. It was clean, the edges were sharp, and the gap was correct. My '07 is box stock, except that I removed the cover over the idle mixture screw. I think, after I tinkered with it, it ended up just about where it was before I bothered with it. My fuel mileage is in my signature. By the way, the exhaust pipe is not discolored, as can be seen by the picture. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/02/12 at 18:25:14 And here I was thinking the pops were a good sign and that 6-8 months was a decent time for a motorcycle spark plug. That's why you guys are the experts and I'm the n00b. I'll post the numbers on the jets and go back to stock. I bet I can find the default jet numbers on the forum somewhere. Thanks a bunch guys. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Paraquat on 09/02/12 at 19:12:04 http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CarbSpecs01web.jpg http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098869040 --Steve |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/03/12 at 09:50:43 I pulled the carb and the main jet was 152.5 and the pilot was 42.5. The previous owner had already gotten rid of the plug, and I have no idea where he had that set. I turned it all the way in, then backed it out 3 turns. Think the jets were the culpret? I thought a smaller jet size was better for fuel. The jets were covered in a greenish-white powdery substance (kinda like a light copper oxide), is that typical? Side note: I hope I don't have to go back to the 42.5 pilot because I dropped the darn thing between the cracks in my deck :o |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Serowbot on 09/03/12 at 10:10:09 42.5 pilot?... :-?... Das' tiny... Well,.. jets ain't causing you 25mpg... Float is sticking,.. or petcock is leaking... or there's a hole in your gas tank... or, someone's stealing yer' gas... One of those four... PS... you is gonna' need a pilot jet of some kind in that hole... ;D... PSS.. green is patina... it's more collectable that way... but, for running, I'd clean it off... |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/03/12 at 10:23:30 I replaced the pilot with the 47.5 and the main with the 155 (went back to stock). The float seemed lose. Does this mean that my gas mileage will go down??? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/12 at 10:34:50 Not sayin its related, but I spose valve timing could cause some loss of MPG, but hows that tensioner? 21,000,, if it hasnt been looked at, you better.. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by verslagen1 on 09/03/12 at 10:40:20 check your float level. connect a piece of clear tubing to the drain, open the drain and set the petcock to prime. gas level should come up to the bowl gasket. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Serowbot on 09/03/12 at 10:57:54 416C77747961150 wrote:
It won't go up... ;D... 25 mpg?... are you sure you don't just suck at math?... :-?... I know I do... :-?... ... are you towing a Hummer?... :-?... ... are you running a roller skate wheel for a rear tire?... :-?... It's just impossibly bad mpg's... Not possible... I swear... Seriously,... something is way not right... does bike have the power of a moped?... I mean,.. if it's actually using this amount of fuel to propel you.... it must be internally near death... |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/03/12 at 11:12:03 Justin: Timing could be off, but it would be the previous owner's fault :). I switched out for a verslavy at 20,000 and the cam chain seemed fine. If so, I'll have to wait until I pull the top off the engine to check... Versy, I will definitely do the bowl check, but itll have to wait until I can get to the store to replace the rusty nut in the drain plug. Sero, I get 56 miles between each filling of the tank and having to switch to reserve (I take pictures of the mileage with my iphone every time the tank dies, average is 56 miles between). When I refill the tank, I put in 2.3 gallons on average (usually within a mile or 2 of where it dies). Math adds up to just under 25. Bike seems pretty happy, and a compression test showed 125 PSI (service limit is 114). Speaking of, isn't the tank supposed to be 2.8 gallons total with a reserve tank of 1 gallon. Shouldn't I only be putting in 1.8 gallons? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by rfw2003 on 09/03/12 at 11:19:34 The raptor petcock changes the main/reserve levels. you have more from the main with a raptor then you do with the stock petcock so your reserve amount will be less. R.F. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/03/12 at 11:23:48 Thanks R.F. Do you know what the new levels will be? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/03/12 at 11:35:43 The worst mileage I get is 35mpg, that is when I really let it fly on the superslab for longer periods of time and with some commuting to work in town on the same tank of gas. Usually I'm between 45-50mpg. But I really would like to know what it takes to do only 25mpg. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Dave on 09/03/12 at 15:02:54 6A475C5F524A3E0 wrote:
Here is the measurements I got on the stock and Raptor petcock. "The stock petcock provides 78 oz of fuel on reserve, while the Raptor provides 60 oz of fuel on RESERVE - this is without shaking the bike to get any remaining fuel out of the right side of the tank and you may get more when actually riding. If you got 55 MPG on your bike the stock petcock provides 33.5 miles of reserve and the Raptor provides 25.7 miles of reserve." You can go to this link if you want the pictures that show the different heights of the reserve tubes: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1340021926 |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by rfw2003 on 09/03/12 at 15:46:23 I never measured it to find out what the capacities were after the change. I just pull into the fuel stop approx every 100 miles just like I did before the change. I've only gone maybe 110miles before fueling up so I haven't hit the reserve yet on mine. Most I've put in my bike for fuel up is 2.2 gallons R.F. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/03/12 at 17:54:18 What's weird on mine is when I first got it, it started to sputter at around 100 miles and switched it to reserve. Then it took pretty much exactly 2 gallons to fill it up. Some few years ago whenever it started to sputter and I switched to reserve and then filled it up, it only took 1.8 gallons anymore. And it has been like that ever since. A couple of years ago I bought a new petcork and installed it, because I thought it had to do with that, but it didn't help the problem. Has my tank shrunk? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Dave on 09/04/12 at 08:30:12 54474A405F41535F260 wrote:
Did you install a larger rear tire or taller shocks? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/04/12 at 21:03:15 003B3621303C27213A323F20530 wrote:
Did you install a larger rear tire or taller shocks?[/quote] I changed from the stock IRC rear tire to the same spec Dunlop K555. This one is in fact a little meatier. But should the really make that much of a difference? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/12 at 21:19:40 When ya first got it, did you ride real careful & exit corners gently? IOW, has your riding style changed? Do you twist the grip more now? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/05/12 at 10:43:42 706F696E73744575457D6F63281A0 wrote:
It definitely has changed, but my point is that whenever I DO switch to reserve, it will only fill 1.8 gallons in there instead 2 gallons when I got it. This isn't really related to the mileage. In the beginning at the point I switched to reserve and fueled up it counted 2 gallons. Now it counts only 1.8 doing the same. Where did I loose .0.2 gallons of capacity? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/05/12 at 10:46:12 I think I drive pretty much the same way as when I got it... not a ton of acceleration on my drive to work. Mostly through a small college town where the speed limit is 35. I'm completely stumped as to how it gets 25 MPG. What components could introduce enough friction to do that? Would bad valve seating affect the MPG through loss of compression? Anyone check their compression lately and have a ballpark on what to expect? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by rfw2003 on 09/05/12 at 10:46:38 Well today I went further then 100 miles before fueling up Still didn't hit reserve but I think I should have been dang close. It took 2.36 gallons to fill it. So that tells me there is less then 1/2 gallon for reserve but still don't know the exact amount yet. R.F. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Serowbot on 09/05/12 at 10:49:22 Check that your wheels are turning freely... a tight rear brake will suck mileage... ... check that the belt ain't overly tight either... |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Serowbot on 09/05/12 at 10:53:56 61727F756A74666A130 wrote:
I suspect there's a clear tube stuffed with drug money in your tank... Didn't you watch Easy Rider?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Dave on 09/05/12 at 12:22:43 4E5D505A455B49453C0 wrote:
It definitely has changed, but my point is that whenever I DO switch to reserve, it will only fill 1.8 gallons in there instead 2 gallons when I got it. This isn't really related to the mileage. In the beginning at the point I switched to reserve and fueled up it counted 2 gallons. Now it counts only 1.8 doing the same. Where did I loose .0.2 gallons of capacity? [/quote] My question about a taller tire or taller shocks - is that the fuel level will shift forward a bit if the back of the bike is raised.....and that will allow for less fuel before the level hits the metal collar at the fuel neck. Not sure how much of a shift it takes to equal 0.2 gallons. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/05/12 at 12:50:59 7660776A72676A71050 wrote:
I suspect there's a clear tube stuffed with drug money in your tank... Didn't you watch Easy Rider?... :-?...[/quote] Yeah watched it, but I didn't do that. :D |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/05/12 at 12:52:19 1C272A3D2C203B3D262E233C4F0 wrote:
It definitely has changed, but my point is that whenever I DO switch to reserve, it will only fill 1.8 gallons in there instead 2 gallons when I got it. This isn't really related to the mileage. In the beginning at the point I switched to reserve and fueled up it counted 2 gallons. Now it counts only 1.8 doing the same. Where did I loose .0.2 gallons of capacity? [/quote] My question about a taller tire or taller shocks - is that the fuel level will shift forward a bit if the back of the bike is raised.....and that will allow for less fuel before the level hits the metal collar at the fuel neck. Not sure how much of a shift it takes to equal 0.2 gallons.[/quote] Makes sense, but I dunno either how much it matters. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/05/12 at 12:53:29 3C28397C7E7E7D4E0 wrote:
Do you run the Raptor or stock petcock? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by rfw2003 on 09/05/12 at 12:56:18 33202D2738263438410 wrote:
Do you run the Raptor or stock petcock?[/quote] Raptor |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ralfyguy on 09/05/12 at 15:25:40 61756421232320130 wrote:
Do you run the Raptor or stock petcock?[/quote] Raptor[/quote] The Raptor is known to let you run longer than the stock petcock before you have to switch to reserve and consequently making the reserve smaller. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by rfw2003 on 09/05/12 at 15:32:23 70636E647B65777B020 wrote:
Yes I'm aware of that and let him know back in post #17. He had asked me if I knew what the new levels were with it, and I was just posting my results so far since I haven't hit the reserve yet. I figure at 2.36 gallons I'm pretty close to where the reserve/main line is with the raptor petcock, or at least I'm hoping so, as with my current fuel consumption of 46mpg I'll only get about 18 miles further down the road if I have to hit my reserve, which is pushing it, if it's after hours for the local fuel stop and I have to ride into the next town. I've been thinking about doing some custom built saddle bags for my savage, might try to figure out a way to build in a small aux fuel tank on each one and use a small electric pump to transfer fuel to the main tank. Dunno if I'll actually do it though since there isn't a fuel gauge on the savage's tank. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/05/12 at 18:05:39 Yeah RF. The lack of a fuel gauge is pretty annoying. Has anyone ever looked into a way of adding one? Veering way off of my original topic here, but since the convo has gone in that direction, I might as well ask. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/05/12 at 18:11:07 Quote:
I should look for that too. Maybe if my bike is on the way out, I can use it to buy a new one ;D. I will definitely check the rear brake, and if I remember correctly, the belt is easy (it's a 90 degree rotation test, right?). I can also add another symptom that may or may not be relevant. Today I noticed that my clutch is slipping. I went in and messed with the clutch about 6 months ago by reducing the size of that bar that lifts the clutch plates and found that it made it impossible to shift correctly, so I put the original length bar back in. Could the spring be worn out in my clutch? Would that cause drastically dropped MPG? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/05/12 at 20:51:12 A slipping clutch = engine turning & wheel not = gas burned goin nowhere.. Gotta decrease MPG, but cut it in Half? YOu shoulda been aware of a Lot of slipping,, How much slack in the clutch cable? \ What oil? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Bobber Fett on 09/06/12 at 05:06:08 I'll check the slack today when I drive in. As far as the oil goes, I'm using The white rotella (I think it's 15-40W). |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by bill67 on 09/06/12 at 05:21:10 Clutch want slip with motorcycle oil.That probability your problem. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Charon on 09/06/12 at 06:38:56 5B5055550F0E390 wrote:
So you are saying Shell Rotella, with a JASO MA rating, is NOT motorcycle oil? |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/12 at 07:23:15 5B766D6E637B0F0 wrote:
MMMkay, youre good on oil, make sure there is some slack in the cable, the lever should move a bit, free wobble,, |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by bill67 on 09/06/12 at 08:31:16 577C75667B7A140 wrote:
So you are saying Shell Rotella, with a JASO MA rating, is NOT motorcycle oil?[/quote] Rotella is diesel oil it is depending on the diesel fuel to get max oiling. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/12 at 08:45:49 Bill,, Im gonna need a more in depth explanation on that. I know there are oils that are "diesel only", but I thot that was because they have additives that shouldnt be in a gas engine w/ a cataclysmic perverter. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by rfw2003 on 09/06/12 at 08:52:19 02090C0C5657600 wrote:
So you are saying Shell Rotella, with a JASO MA rating, is NOT motorcycle oil?[/quote] Rotella is diesel oil it is depending on the diesel fuel to get max oiling.[/quote] Rotella Triple T and Rotella T6 are NOT diesel specific oils. They are in fact HDEOs, Heavy Duty Engine Oils. In the white paper for both of these which I have posted in another thread, they both list for use in Gas and diesel engines. Triple T even goes to the extent that it says for use in Motorcycles as well. R.F. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by bill67 on 09/06/12 at 08:56:26 You can't trust Rotella they keep changing every couple months.Better to stick with and off road motorcycle oil.Far less restriction on it. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by Badass94Cad on 09/06/12 at 19:38:41 Did somebody order an oil war? ;D |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by verslagen1 on 09/06/12 at 19:46:35 7E7570702A2B1C0 wrote:
Yep, I change my RotSyn every month like clockwork. Hey billshutter, just recently you said you have 40k miles over several bikes. I got that on one bike, most of the miles are on Rotella. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by ToesNose on 09/07/12 at 03:56:44 Poor Bobber Fett.........victim of the oil wars post highjackings LoL |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by bill67 on 09/07/12 at 10:08:14 5C4F5859464B4D4F441B2A0 wrote:
Yep, I change my RotSyn every month like clockwork. Hey billshutter, just recently you said you have 40k miles over several bikes. I got that on one bike, most of the miles are on Rotella.[/quote] You should be changing that oil every 2 weeks like clockwork. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by verslagen1 on 09/07/12 at 11:08:24 2D26232379784F0 wrote:
Yep, I change my RotSyn every month like clockwork. Hey billshutter, just recently you said you have 40k miles over several bikes. I got that on one bike, most of the miles are on Rotella.[/quote] You should be changing that oil every 2 weeks like clockwork.[/quote] no thanks, don't use klotz. |
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Title: Re: 25 MPG?!?! WTF? Post by mjs3790225 on 09/07/12 at 21:04:23 I had really terrible fuel economy in the mid 30's for a while. Turned out my tired pressure was crazy low. Filled them up to spec and got MANY more miles out of the same amount of fuel. That and my drive belt was too tight O_o |
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