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Message started by Blue04Savage on 08/30/12 at 14:30:08

Title: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 08/30/12 at 14:30:08

Alright, well I had posted a previous post asking about how to tell what your idle speed was set at. I got a few different answers (thank you), but thought it might be easiest just to post a video of my bike running so you guys/girls can actually hear it. A few questions related to the posted video......

video link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CRT9-ipZXc

1. It seems to me like i'm getting a lot of valve train noise. I know these bikes are known for having a loud valvetrain, but i'm wondering what you all think about mine? Does it sound normal, or like there is extra noise there?
2. Idle speed seem ok?
3. Is there a gasket where the muffler meets up to the piping? Or is it just a clamp tight seal between the two? I have an exhaust leak at this point, and am just wondering if i'll need to order parts before I start taking it apart to fix it.

The bike is a 04' savage with 3800miles on it. I have only done 1 oil/filter change on it (bought it with 2800 miles on it), and used the rotella triple protection, but with no additives. PLEASE NO OIL WARS. I'm wondering if the valvetrain noise could be do to not adding that ZDDP booster that everyone seems to like?

Anyway, a bunch of questions, but I would appreciate any advice/insight that you guys could give me on any/all of them. I just want to make sure the bike is running well.

lol One last question.....

I noticed that while cruising at 45-50mph in 5th gear, and mostly during evening when it's colder and probably more humid, my bike seems to studder some. Ideas?

THANKS!

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Serowbot on 08/30/12 at 15:23:03

Sounds fine to me... idle 1100 to 1200 rpm... just guessing..

Muffler has a thick lead impregnated gasket...

Stutter,.. maybe she wants 4th at that speed,... if you're a big fella'... :-?...

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 08/30/12 at 15:31:15

Thanks for the reply Serowbot.

Ok cool. So it's just a matter of perhaps tightening down the exhaust tighter to close the leak? I'm assuming since it's thick, and lead. I actually only weigh 160lbs.

Kinda brings up another question. I guess the redline for these bikes is only 6500rpm, and they are supposed to be pretty torquey, but it seema to me that they don't chug along too well at low rpm. Thoughts?

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by 87 savage on 08/30/12 at 15:40:04

IMHO the idle sounds real good. The rocker arms sounded noisy when you had your camera up near the top of the engine, probably ought to check the clearance. Verslagen1 did a great write-up here:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1325991352

There is a clamp and a connector between the header and muffler, that is where I would look. It is a real easy exhaust to work on. 2 nuts at the back bottom of the muffler. (don't lose the spacers and washers!) and 2 chrome nuts on the right foot peg assembly. And finally, 2 bolts at the top of the header. and the whole thing comes right off. Your oil is fine. That is one of the recommended oils.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565

As for the stumbling, that is too broad of a subject and I am going to hope some of the other guys chime in.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by verslagen1 on 08/30/12 at 16:50:19

59776E7E222F487A6D7A7C7E1B0 wrote:

I noticed that while cruising at 45-50mph in 5th gear, and mostly during evening when it's colder and probably more humid, my bike seems to studder some.

I'm going to guess you mean it's lugging.
I'd expect that at 35, not 45.
but mines rejetted and aftermarket exhaust to give it a little more power than stock, might happen to one that's compromised in the low rpm range.
This can happen with pod filters or open pipes.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/01/12 at 21:08:45

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry for the delayed response.

Where to start......

Sounds like an easy fix for the exhaust. I looked at the write up by verslagen, very nice. I'm thinking about tackeling it myself, but i'm not very familiar with motorcycles, so I don't want to screw it up. I've done major work on cars before though. I assume the principles are the same. An engine is an engine right?

The studder I was mentioning is actually just that. It's not lugging. It's not like it just doesn't have enough power to pull itself through. It's more as if it had a misfire or something. It doesn't run smooth in the situation I described. It would be almost like if you were running a V8 with only 7 cylinders firing, but not quite as bad. Does that make sense?

That's the best way I can describe it really. When I get it up around 55 or so, it's basically fine. The odd thing though is it only seems to be in 5th gear, and so doesn't seem to be related to rpm-mph. I don't quite understand it.

Could the exhaust leak I have be affecting it possibly? Maybe the back pressure just isn't quite right, and with the conditions described, it causes this? Long shot right?

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/01/12 at 21:21:09

TRy holding the gas dead steady in that stutter zone & note the rpm.
Drop a gear & try to get the same rpm or just a hair lower & hold it steady & see if it does it. If it does, try a new plug,

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/01/12 at 21:51:05

Justin:
Good suggestion. That's exactly what I did already. I couldn't tell you the exact rpm, for I have no tach, but everything is stock on the bike. There is a RPM chart on here, so I can just go off that. I'm pretty good at hearing an rpm, and being able to match it in another gear, so I did that. I doesn't do it. So basically I can be in 5th, it does it, and then same rpm (or at least darn close) in another gear, and it doesn't seem to do it. It also seems to be worse at night when it's cooler, and typically more humid.

I think you might be right about the spark plug. That was one of my thoughts also. When I address the valvelash I will just replace the spark plug also.

Do you guys recommend a certain spark plug that seems to work really well for these bikes? I don't care about the price.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/01/12 at 22:27:02

Do you guys recommend a certain spark plug that seems to work really well for these bikes? I don't care about the price.

Boooy, have I Gotta Deeaaall For YOU! You send me $40.00, thats Right! ONLY Forty Dollars,, & I will send To YOU,,a Special Spark PLug, AND, if you act now, I will Pay the Freight! Yes, I said it,, I will pay the freight Right outta MY pocket,,
But you must act Now,, sale price is going off in 10 minutes & then it will be $49.95 PLus Freight,,

Ohh,, & to reply to

Justin:
Good suggestion. That's exactly what I did already.

Good Suggestion? GOOD? Heck Fire, Booy,, we talking Sheer Genius!
& I know YOull agree,, cuz that makes you one , too,, ;)

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/02/12 at 08:13:02

justin:

RIIIIIGHT. Actually I had already tried what you suggested. Believe it or not i'm not an idiot, and thought to try that. Not just saying so because you suggested it.

About the spark plugs. There are nuts one and good ones. There are often spark plugs that tend to work better in certain cars/bikes for example. My buddy had a 600cbr that was carb'd, and the dealer kept suggesting a certain type of plug, but it kept fouling out. He switched to a hotter plug and the thing ran like a top.

No need to be a smart ass. ;) I wouldn't be asking about it if it wasn't weird, because I would have likely figured it out already.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by rl153 on 09/02/12 at 09:20:06

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spark-Plugs-Engine-Digital-Tach-Hour-Meter-Tachometer-Gauge-Motorcycle-Bike-bLi-/160873131251?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2574c92cf3

these tachs are probably not that good, but the one i bought ,which is the same thing works good and easy to install.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/12 at 09:48:06

I wasnt being a smart ass,, That was Supposed to be funny.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/02/12 at 13:58:00

6E67746B6C6733303B3B020 wrote:

I guess for $10 you can't really go wrong if it gives you a close to accurate reading. Thanks for the link. Perhaps i'll pick one up just to give it a try.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Routy on 09/03/12 at 05:52:08

You'll be hard pressed to beat the OEM plug ! Unless you are jetted way off, they last forever.

As far as the rough running, surging at low throttle, I think you could be looking at needing a 1/2 spacer mod, but I'm not sure.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/08/12 at 20:39:44

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm torn now about tearing the bike apart to check the valvelash, or not. I just want to ride the darn thing, but dont' want to do so if there is a problem you know? With only 3800 miles on the bike, I would hope everything was alright still. Thoughts?

Any chance anyone who knows FOR SURE that their valves are set right could send me a link to a video of their bike running? Perhaps with the camera close to the valves like I did on the link on put up? I know it's a pain, but i'd really appreciate it so I could get a better idea if I really do need to adjust my valves or not, without tearing it apart to check.

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/08/12 at 20:41:49

At the risk of sounding stupid....

What does adding the 1/2" carb spacer actually do?

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by rfw2003 on 09/08/12 at 20:45:48

210F16065A57300215020406630 wrote:

At the risk of sounding stupid....

What does adding the 1/2" carb spacer actually do?

That mod richens the mid range throttle circuit.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/08/12 at 21:46:03

Alright, cool. So it wouldn't richen the mixture throughout the throttle range?

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by ralfyguy on 09/08/12 at 21:51:55

Here is a video I took two years ago right after I got done adjusting the valves. It's still the same as of today, thanks to T6 that I switched to shortly after that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qHtGnULMvg&list=UUuVEcotnYSPsq-IkZ-_PwpA&index=4&feature=plcp

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/08/12 at 22:24:26

2C3F323827392B275E0 wrote:

Thanks for posting the video. I think your valvetrain sounds quieter than mine. Would you agree? Was it a lot of work to adjust your valves?

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/12 at 07:23:15

Its a hassle, big hands make it more of a hassle, Getting the tools out & laid out, a stool, magnet for fishing out the dropped feeler gauge, flashlight is nice, not necessary,makes it less hassle.
If there is a tool I want for this, its a box end, 10 MM that curves, so it will drop down in there & sit right on that nut. Couldnt find one, didnt wanna heat mine & bend it, tho Ive done that on several wrenches.
Of course, the 90* flat blade. I got one at Sears, went home & ground the Phillips end to a flat blade turned opposite to the other end.
Prepare a place for the tank before you have it in your hands,

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by ralfyguy on 09/09/12 at 09:13:01

You gotta pull the tank. For me the hardest part was getting the feeler in. What I eventually ended up with doing is that the first time I did it and had a hard time checking the gap with the different feelers, I just gave up on trying and just loosened all the adjusters. I mean I was in there deep anyways, so just start from scratch. Then I just put the 0.004 feeler in and screwed the adjuster snug with my fingers. I looked closely how the slot was in the screw was positioned just in case. Then I held it in place with the screwdriver and tightened the nut, making sure the adjuster didn't move. Then try to move the feeler around before you pull it out. If it comes out without having to pull hard on it, just go with that. It's close enough. If you go in there anyway, might as well just start from scratch and just adjust them all and not just check it.
In my case I admit that I went and checked a year later and found that nothing had changed. It sounded the same too. So from now on I just listen for changes. What is impressive on my bike is, that when the motor is still cold, it really has not the slightest tick at all. Once it warms up it sounds like in the video. So in my case I will not tear into there again until that sound changes.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/12 at 10:20:47

I bend the feelers into a Z shape & put a ski tip bend on the end,I can usually get it in to check the adjustment, so I dont have to mess with it if its still good. But, I did do as Ralf said a few times & the point is " Im all the way here now, no sense sweating that last step". & I agree with him all the way. It may take less time to just do that, I just wanted to see where it was. BUst the jam loose, back the adjuster out a bit, slip the feeler in & gently bring the adjuster down on it. If the feeler is being held at an angle because its against something, it makes it feel tighter than it is.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by ralfyguy on 09/09/12 at 11:04:13

I bent my feeler the same way. and still had trouble with getting it in right...that didn't sound right huh? ;D

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by Blue04Savage on 09/09/12 at 21:01:06

Sounds like a pain in the a$$. Do you guys think my valvetrain sounds overly loud given the video I posted? Mind you I had the camera right up next to it. The bike only has 3800miles on it. I would have hoped that there wouldn't be anything wrong with it so early on. Thoughts? It only had 2800 on it when I bought it. 2004.

Title: Re: Question on valve train sound, and idle speed
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/12 at 21:45:17

Book calls for 1st valve adjust at 5,000 miles.. ride it,,