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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Dumb Question about Rear Spokes /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1345359569 Message started by John in Kalifornia on 08/18/12 at 23:59:29 |
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Title: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by John in Kalifornia on 08/18/12 at 23:59:29 Went to put the spokes on the 18 inch rear wheel. Don't fit, think they are all inner spokes. Stock spokes had 2 different bends. Tried to save money and ordered from Mike's XS, thought they would work. Do any of you with the Ryca rear wheel remember if their spokes are inner and outer? Should have half with about an 80 degree bend and the outer spokes with a longer bend and more of an acute angle. Thanks, john in Kalifornia, feeling stupid |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by Dave on 08/19/12 at 04:05:35 John: Yep.....Rear spoke sets should have 18 inner and 18 outer. The inners have less bend - the outes have to bend around the flange on the hub and need more angle. |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by John in Kalifornia on 08/19/12 at 07:13:11 Thanks, Dave. I'll try to return them and in the meantime get some spokes from Ryca, as they are local. Too many pieces all over the garage; need to get something put back together. BTW, did you get your spoke situation resolved? John in Kalifornia |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by Dave on 08/19/12 at 09:02:20 Like you.....I had a motorycle spread all over my garage and needed to get my engine back together before I worried about wheels. I have the motor all back together as of noon yesterday, and went for about a 40 mile ride and everything is good. I will probable get the correct front wheel spokes ordered this week. |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by John in Kalifornia on 08/19/12 at 11:07:42 It's so easy to just keep on going taking things apart. Problem is over time things get lost, you forget how it is supposed to fit, etc. On the last bike I worked on, I took lots of pictures with the digital camera. The pics and line drawings from parts diagrams really helped. Cmsnl on the 'Net has diagrams going way back for Japanese bikes, though I would never buy anything from them, too costly to ship. I haven't touched the electrics or engine yet. At 29k miles, it will probably need some work, a Versy for sure. I did start it up before teardown so at least it isn't seized. Easy bike to work on compared to many others. John in Kalifornia |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by braveteacher on 08/19/12 at 14:32:50 http://suzuki-s40-ratbrat.weebly.com/index.html I bought spokes from Ryca and they are all the same...no different...no different bends...all the same...check out my web page on the bottom of page 1... |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by John in Kalifornia on 08/19/12 at 17:09:09 That doesn't seem right. I'll have to check with the Ryca guys tomorrow. If the spokes are all the same bend that means someone didn't do their homework. It's pretty obvious from the old spokes that there are inner and outer types. Am I the only one to notice this? I can't believe all those other Rycas have the wrong spokes and nobody noticed. Or doesn't anybody do their own wheel lacing? John in Kalifornia |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by Cavi Mike on 08/20/12 at 02:07:36 I've never heard of "inside" or "outside" spokes, they just bend differently after they've been installed and tensioned. |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by tizzyfit on 08/20/12 at 02:44:04 684A5D426642404E2B0 wrote:
Depending on the wheel your attempting to lace, the brake side MAY have a different size (length) spoke than the non-brake side. |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by Dave on 08/20/12 at 05:24:09 Here is a picture of the inside and outside spokes for the front wheel. You can see that the spokes on the right that cross over the spokes nearest the hub have the bend offset a bit. http://i47.tinypic.com/mlsacy.png The offest is necessary for the inner spokes to seat in the hub properly......without the offset the spokes nearest the center of the hub push out on the spokes nearest the hub flange....and this happens: http://i45.tinypic.com/10rixaf.jpg For the rear spokes there are inner and outer spokes as well. The bends are at different angles as the inner spokes have much less of an angle since they are going from the inside of the hub flange - the outer spokes must curve over the outside of the hub flange to get to the middle of the rim and have more of an angle bent into the spoke. http://i45.tinypic.com/110agp4.jpg I have been working with Buchanan's to get the correct spoke sets made for the Savage. They have the rear set nailed.....and now I believe they have the front set perfected. They have been great to work with and as far as I know this is the first rear set they did for the Savage and only the 2nd front wheel. They made the sets from measurements of the hubs I sent - so they did not have the advantage of actually having a wheel and hub to see in person. |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by John in Kalifornia on 08/21/12 at 22:47:41 Sent an email to Ryca about spokes. They said the spoke kit they sell has inners and outers, two different bends. The spokes I got from Mike's XS were all the same bend. They should have had a sharper bend for the outers so that the spokes could reach the center of the wheel. Out of frustration, I came up with a solution. A piece of 1/8 by 1 steel strip with a hole in the end. Radiused the hole and put the spoke in. Then I used some telescoping tubing to make a bender tool. Inserted the tool in the spoke and made my own acute angle bend. There, now I got inner and outer spokes. http://p1.bikepics.com/2012%5C08%5C22%5Cbikepics-2444963-800.jpg SPOKES SHOWING THE BENDS http://p1.bikepics.com/2012%5C08%5C22%5Cbikepics-2444964-800.jpg Then I tried to assemble the wheel. It took me all day to do but I finally got it laced up. The spokes were marginally too short but I made them work. At one point I was so frustrated I was thinking of buying a whole 'nother spoke set but I just kept taking a break and coming back til the job was done. It's been over 40 (yes forty) years since I laced a wheel and had to relearn the drill. After that, the truing of the wheel and installing the tire were easy, in comparison. John in Kalifornia |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by braveteacher on 08/22/12 at 03:30:18 Well, if that is so they sent me the wrong spokes or the bend was so slight that you could not tell with the human eye...and it laced up just fine. |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by teabowl13 on 08/22/12 at 09:58:52 It could be that the bend in the RYCA spokes is just looser overall. I don't know; I never used them. For my rear wheel, I ordered a cheaper set of spokes from Taiwan (About $40 on Ebay if I recall) They were all the same bend. I had someone else lace the wheel, and he said it was a PITA, but that it worked. Looking at them now, they are definitely a smaller gauge than the stock spokes, or the ones I ordered from Buchannan's for the front wheel. (guy in Taiwan didn't have or make spokes to match the front.) I may someday get real rear spokes for the rear wheel and have it re-done, but it's together for now, so I am dealing with other stuff... |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by John in Kalifornia on 08/25/12 at 00:15:57 It took me all day to lace the rear wheel earlier this week. When I did the front wheel lacing today it went much faster. I think the difference was not just due to the old learning curve. The spokes for the front were from Buchanan's. I actually went to their place of business with the rim and hub and they custom made the spokes to fit. Bottom line is that I think you would be better off with the Ryca spokes if you are converting to the 18 inch rear wheel. They say the length is 150mm, which is about 5mm longer that the ones from Mike's XS. John in Kalifornia |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by Spamy on 08/27/12 at 22:10:53 I still think the 124mm spoke pattern is better for the 18 in rear wheel. Im completely pleased with how mine came out. The 150mm (148) is taking the angle to a really ugly extreme. It will work, but its either going to tweak the spoke or you have to modify the hole. Just my 2 cents. |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by John in Kalifornia on 08/28/12 at 08:24:43 Could you illustrate the 124mm spoke length lacing? The 148-150 mm follows the same pattern as the stock Savage 16 inch wheel. The angle is therefore less than the original, and matches up exactly to the Mike's XS rim, whose hole pattern is correct for an 18 inch drum brake setup. The shorter 124mm length implies fewer "crosses" of the spokes. John in Kalifornia |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by Spamy on 08/28/12 at 13:15:42 This is how it looks. It matches the angle of the rims holes perfectly. I dont think I would compare to the stock angles. The rim is much much smaller and so are the spokes. Its not apples to apples. If you compare it to the front rim its a similar pattern. Ive laced many dirt bike rims and they all have this similar pattern. They exert more hp and torque considering the lower gearing as well as fall 20 feet out of the air on flat ground with no issues. http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1305/009nyb.jpg |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by braveteacher on 09/08/12 at 13:10:43 If you go here you can see that their has been problems in the past with RYCA and their rear rim...However, I recently bought the spokes and purchased a rim on ebay...drilled out the spoke holes...spokes were supplied all the same with same angles...and it laced up just fine... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1304722902/180 Here is my web site with a pic of my spoke job... http://suzuki-s40-ratbrat.weebly.com/page-3.html You can see in the pics on page 2 and 3 that the spokes are not bent at all...laced up just fine. James |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by Spamy on 09/09/12 at 16:28:23 Your bike looks great so far braveteacher. Nice work. Your wheel looks pretty good, but from the picture you can see that it is still tweaked. The spokes should be pulled straight and you can see where the spokes are bent and pulled to one side where the gap in the nipples are. It will perform find and 8/10 probably would never notice it. http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9848/teacherwheel.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/teacherwheel.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us) |
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Title: Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Post by braveteacher on 09/10/12 at 03:19:43 I should not have said "Not bent at all" LOL Nothing is perfect...but it is well within the allowable limits of rim lacing...Dont I sound like I know what I am talking about...first rim I have ever laced...LOL I hope I am one of thoes 8 that dont notice it or I will be hitting you up for those spokes you purchased...LOL :) |
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