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Message started by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:33:58

Title: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:33:58

As mentioned before in another thread, about two weeks ago I changed my oil and took a 30 mile trip with my wife in 112F degree heat with a heat index of 122F. Us and the bike got really hot. The grease I used on the shift lever and kick stand was rated up to 275F and it turned into tar. So there is no telling how hot the rest of the bike got. A good test to see how Rotella T6 stood up to the challenge. The oil has about 100 miles on it all together. See posts with pictures below for the result.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:36:23

Here is my bike:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18982.jpg

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:38:08

17,700 miles on it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18978.jpg

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:39:11

No discoloration on the exhaust:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18980.jpg

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:40:30

Kevlar brake pads after 2,000 miles:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18981.jpg

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:41:42

Out comes the juice:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18979.jpg

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:42:28

First shot from the pan:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18983.jpg

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:43:34

Second shot from the pan with most of it poured out for better visibility and judgement:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18984.jpg

There was some sort of deposit in the left bottom corner, but it is just dirt that fell in the pan when I loosened the drain plug.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:47:04

Here is the little jug that Oldfeller requested to catch some stuff for further visual analysis:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Phirevixen/picture18985.jpg

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:49:00

All in all the oil didn't look any different than any of the stuff I've drained before. It just didn't look as used up. It could be that I have bad vision, but it appears to me that visually there is nothing wrong with the oil.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/12 at 18:52:55

Questions:

Is this your first sump of T-6 or have you used Rotella products previously?

Were there any thickened chunks, pieces or any sludge lumps to be found anywhere?
(other than the dirt from the bolt you mentioned earlier)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 18:54:50

4A6961636069696077050 wrote:

Questions:

Is this your first sump of T-6 or have you used Rotella products previously?

Were there any thickened chunks, pieces or any sludge lumps to be found anywhere?

This is the fifth load of T6 I put in there and I did not see any lumps and such in it while draining it and when i poured it into a disposal container. Everything I saw was just liquid.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/12 at 18:58:57

Then hindsight time -- if you did it again, the 120^o hot day ride from hell, would you rush to drain the T-6 all out again?

:-? :-? :-?

Or would you just trust the robust brunette oil to do its thing, trust it to be able to take whatever a Savage deals out for a lot longer than we will ever leave it in the engine for our longest drain intervals?

(I can't even imagine a 10,000 mile drain interval on a bike, much less 50,000 or 80,000 miles like people do to T-6 all the time in the trucking industry)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 19:01:40

193A3230333A3A3324560 wrote:

Then hindsight time -- if you did it again, the 120^o hot day ride from hell, would you rush to drain the T-6 all out again?

Probably not. I see no evidence that would make it necessary.
However it's not gonna happen like that again, because in heat like that, I will not ride anymore. It was brutal on the riders and a bad judgement.

What do you think?

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Digger on 08/18/12 at 19:11:28

Ralf,

Didja take a whiff?

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/12 at 19:13:22

I think I will never ever see a 120^o day temperature in North Carolina, and that 95^o days were enough to evaporate my rear tire in 3 days and I am certainly not looking to do that ever again either.

I also think Rotella T-6 is the best synthetic "starting point oil" we have available right now for the Savage engine, and that with a mild ZDDP bump job it is as good as anything out there at this point in time.

Folks will occasionally abuse their bikes and their oil -- we should try to get reports like this from them so we can see what happens.

==================

Yeah, sniff it for any "burned" smell -- we all remember that from our dino oil days as dino stank bad when it began to break down.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 19:17:02

052826262433410 wrote:

Ralf,

Didja take a whiff?

Not directly, but it smelled no different than on oil changes before. I didn't get a burnt odor if that's what you mean.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 19:18:53

54777F7D7E77777E691B0 wrote:

No smell as far as I can tell. Smelled not unusual at all.
I think the stuff looks the same as what I've seen before. It always turned dark rather quickly, no matter what oil I ran. I think it was just fine.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/12 at 19:20:24

So, now that you still have the oil (smart, huh) unscrew the lid and describe what it smells like. Countersniff one of the just emptied bottles of new oil to get a comparison.

:P

Now taste it, and tell us the various differences ......

;D

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by rfw2003 on 08/18/12 at 19:20:28

64474F4D4E47474E592B0 wrote:

On my freight Shaker with the Detroit 12.7L running at 500hp and 1350 TQ I did 30,000 mile change intervals. Truck has 900,000+ miles on her and never had an in-frame done. Oil pressure is still as good today as it was when I bought it.

I ran the Dino Rotella in her from day one.

As for a Motorcycle to be able to go that distance on a change interval, the only way I could see it as even possible, is with a modified oil pump so that you could run a by-pass filtration system on it, since the sump is so small.

R.F.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 19:38:35

I ride in the heat a lot. Oklahoma is hot. I throw oil out after 1,500 miles on the bike, regardless of the brand. I won't skimp out on oil, never have. I buy T6 for it's capabilities, not because of the price. 13 bux every 1,500 miles won't break the bank and gives me a piece of mind. fresh oil never hurts anything.
I dumped that one, because I was worried about what I did that day, especially after seeing what happened to the grease.
It has a typical used oil odor like every other. Not that much different from the new stuff. Just smells used, not bad in any way. The same like all the other oil changes I did.
For me, I cannot detect anything out of the ordinary.

OF, want me to mail you a sample? ;)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/12 at 19:56:09

Naw, ship it to Bill, he's the one who likes to drink the stuff, not me.

Glad to see it held up, and even it you tasted it it would taste like Yuckk!! both new and used.

:)

I think the most miles I have ever put on a sump of T-6 was about 5,500 miles and that was over 1 1/2 years of duration time with about 3-4 partial quart top ups due to oil consumption.

You could say I ran a 50% replacement with fresh oil over the period and not be much off the truth. Verslagen is much worse than me, he really doesn't need to drain his oil at all as he does 150-200% replacement in a year's time due to repeated top ups on his much older higher mileage bikes.

Mine was all liquid too every time I drained it, no lumps, no sludge. Definitely brunette though, very brunette.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/18/12 at 20:26:14

1F3C3436353C3C3522500 wrote:

Now that I saw what drained, I trust this stuff completely. I am impressed, and as long as the formulation stays the same and it is easily available, I'll keep running it. Best oil I ever ran in that bike.

OH, BTW: I still have some pre-T6 bottles of old Lucas 20W-50 in the basement, that I haven't gotten rid of yet, partially I don't know what to do with it. About 10 bottles of old oil. Eight of them had the JASO MA rating on there, and the last two I bought had that removed and said JASO MA-2 on it. So about a year and a half ago they must have changed that, and I'm glad that I only ran that stuff for about 1,500 miles. I did not know about all this back then. I am so glad I switched to T6 after that!
I did not even pay attention to what the bottle said, other than that I saw JASO briefly. To heII with them ba$tards for changing this in secrecy and if I hadn't switched, my motor would be blown to pieces by now, especially with the way I ride at times! I ride hard on the slab, and that stuff woulda killed that motor over time!

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by J C Stokes on 08/19/12 at 03:32:06

Ralphy, sorry to twist your thread, but is your tach from EBAY or J P Cycles? Have you had problems with the clamp slipping and does the tach vibrate when you are riding?

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Charon on 08/19/12 at 05:53:29

Interesting abuse test, but I suspect the oil didn't really get much hotter than usual. The temperature was 112 degrees (the heat index doesn't matter to the engine), about 20 degrees above the "typical" 95 degree day. The oil would have probably run about that same 20 degrees hotter than its normal to be hot enough to shed its heat.

Years ago I drove a Freightliner with the Detroit 12.7 engine, though Werner had ours limited to 385 HP, 1800 rpm. They scheduled oil changes at about 3300 gallons of fuel, which worked out near 20K miles. As I recall, the engine took five gallons of oil (someone correct me if I am wrong), or 20 quarts. So it burned about 165 gallons of fuel per quart of oil during the change interval. If one runs the S40 for its 3750 mile maker-suggested interval, and gets about 50 mpg, one burns about 75 gallons of fuel or 37.5 gallons of fuel per quart of engine oil. Using that as a basis, we change oil more than four times as often as the guys in the big trucks. In both cases I am ignoring make-up oil.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/12 at 06:58:46

Yep, Rotella T is PLENTY good enough for a stock Savage and Rotella T-6 is "happy overkill" for those of us who think we need a synthetic oil.

The two Rotella oils that we list constitute a sheltered port in this oil storm we are having and I for one am grateful that they are there for us to fall back on and that they are NOT dancing to the motorcycle industry's strings right now.

Bikes are bound for "cat converter land" just as fast as Europe can take them there, and the US motorcycle industry (jest say roller lifter equipped Hurleys) doesn't even use a wet clutch and their engine valve trains can live just fine on car oils (so watch them Hurley oil specs get closer and closer together with the existing 20w50 car oils).

We are an offshoot orphan, an "in-production antique motorcycle".

::) for a while, anyway

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by bill67 on 08/19/12 at 07:01:48

With a good premium synthetic motorcycle oil at right weight, The s40 should go around 7500 miles between changes.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/19/12 at 07:34:01

0C213B3A2120273A2B4E0 wrote:

Ralphy, sorry to twist your thread, but is your tach from EBAY or J P Cycles? Have you had problems with the clamp slipping and does the tach vibrate when you are riding?

I got mine on ebay. And no the clamp does not slip a bit. Yes it vibrates or shakes a bit at certain rpm's, BUT: I highly recommend to use it, as I had it mounted on the left handlebar clamp pinched between the halves and the bolt running through it. That caused higher frequency vibrations and constantly killed the illumination bulb. About every other week. It eventually vibrated the tach to death as well. So i got another one that looked the same, but this one upon turning on the it ignition it sweeps all the way around to 8k and then goes back. The cushion clamp eliminated the bulb problem and I haven't had to change the bulb in two years.
It shakes a little when accelerating from lower rpm's, but the needle never does.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/19/12 at 07:44:23

7F545D4E53523C0 wrote:

Well thing is with the grease I used to grease the kick stand and the shift lever pivot. It was rated to 275F. Both pieces are mounted near the crank case. That stuff got so hot apparently, the stand and the shift lever were really hard to operate anymore. The grease looked like tar. It never did that before. So it must have gotten really hot there. Just made me worried about the rest of the motor. But seems like T-6 didn't even flinch.

To me T-6 is the best.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Charon on 08/19/12 at 08:05:58

There is another source of heat I had forgotten. The pavement was probably over 180 degrees on a day that hot, with the sun shining on it. Those pivot points are not only near the crankcase, but also near the very hot ground and the layer of hot air adjacent to it. Might be interesting to point an IR thermometer at the pavement if you ever get another day that hot. That hot pavement might also be the reason tires shed their tread.

I usually do not grease those pivot points. I usually use 80W-90 gear oil on them. A drop or two whenever I do other routine maintenance seems to keep them moving nicely, and I have the oil on hand for chain lube for other bikes.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/12 at 08:15:45

If I was messin in a hinge like that, Id probably give some white lithium grease spray. Thats how I solve lots ot door hinge ( on cars) squeaking. You know, the old ones, with the star wheel that runs across that spring,,

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by bill67 on 08/19/12 at 08:18:54

To hurt a premium synthetic motorcycle oil you would have to over 400 degrees. Klotz,Amsoil, and other premium motorcycle oils.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/12 at 12:48:53

Our Savage engine isn't going to stress T-6 no matter how hot it gets outside or what silly idling or slow moving nonsense we do in a parade or whatever.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/lancer-aftermarket-forced-induction-tech/574254-oil-analysis-shell-rotella-t6.html
Beware of various residuals inside this dude's engine -- he had been swapping out oils trying to find one that would keep up to grade.

To STRESS a synthetic like T-6, you got to go find a high boost max tuned turbocharged engine. Turbo oil feeds on these can get subjected to over 500^o by the turbo unit when conditions are bad.

(and this dude's conditions were bad)

This gentleman is trying to find an oil that can live in his turbocharged high HP car while he is reluctantly converting over to E-85 gasoline.

(now that is a sad sort of challenge to be sure)

This Blackstone report set shows what T-6 did for him, and it also kinda gives us a heads up for what E-85 might sorta mean to our engines when it gets here.

Why should it surprise us that T-6 can withstand 500^o turbo oil feed temperatures? I mean its not like there aren't a bunch of LARGE dual turbos set ups on big truck rigs that make a whole lot of miles on T-6 every month all over the country.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/12 at 12:57:52

What is life is like inside a turbocharger .....

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/turbocharger_technology.htm

BEARING SYSTEMS

The bearing system which supports the rotor assembly (turbine, shaft and compressor) resides in the turbocharger center housing. That bearing system must reliably position and support the rotor from zero up to speeds that can approach 150,000 RPM. In addition to the rotating loads on the bearings, there can be substantial thrust loads in either direction, depending on operating conditions. The bearing system also has an influence on critical rotor speeds, vibration and shaft instability.

The temperature of the turbo environment also presents a challenge to the bearing system. If the engine is shut down immediately following a run at high power output, the turbine and turbine housing temperatures are toward their upper limits, and suddenly all gas flow through the turbine stops and all oil flow through the center housing stops. All that heat must go somewhere, and an easy path is into the center housing. The resulting temperatures can easily cook the oil to a solid with potentially disastrous results on the next run.

The bearing system has evolved from the early days, when most were hydrodynamic sleeve and face bearings which required uninterrupted oil supply to avoid damage from loss of fluid film and from overheating.

Today's turbos feature dual ball bearing systems with very high bi-directional thrust capacities and reduced frictional drag, allowing faster spool-up times. To combat flat-spotting of bearings during heat-soak, an upgrade in bearing material from 52100 to M2 tool steel is also available.

The centrifugal force at very high speeds can cause steel balls to lift off the inner race, and to skid on the inner race during acceleration. To combat that issue, some manufacturers have switched over to bearings having ceramic balls, and others are moving in that direction. The ceramic ball bearings are also reported to be more resistant to damage from high temperatures.
Garrett Bearing Cartridge

Figure 7
Garrett Bearing Cartridge

Garrett uses an integrated dual ball bearing cartridge (Figure 7) which contains an angular-contact ball bearing at each end, providing a huge bi-directional thrust capacity, and which adds bending stiffness to the shaft system, helping to prevent critical speed issues.

Borg-Warner is developing a two-ball-bearing system which is expected to be fully ceramic.

A turbocharger lives in a terribly hostile environment. The turbine is driven by exhaust gasses that can exceed 1875°F (1025°C) and which are very corrosive. Exhaust valves experience those same corrosive, high-temperature gasses, but exhaust valves do not approach the peak temperature of the exhaust gas. An exhaust valve in a competition engine spends at least half of the time on the valve seat (production engines more like two-thirds of the time). Valves continuously transfer heat through the stem to the guide, and when they are seated, they rapidly transfer heat into the cylinder head through the valve seats. Those cooling paths keep exhaust valve temperatures well below EGTs.

The turbine wheel, however, lives in a continuous, high-velocity jet of those gasses. Although there is expansion across the turbine nozzle, therefore some cooling of the gasses, the temperature at the tips of the turbine rotor can approach exhaust gas temperatures. Further, the rotor system on many turbochargers operates well in excess of 100,000 RPM, and some approach 150,000 RPM. That imposes huge tensile loads from the centrifugal forces, as well as bending and vibratory loads. That environment requires the use of nickel-based superalloys for the turbine wheels. Those alloys can retain high strength values at these high temperatures.

Do you think your bike's engine heat stresses your oil more than a dull red hot on the inside big rig turbocharger?

I don't think so ..... ;)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/19/12 at 13:47:13

I once had a Ford Escort RS Turbo, the Germany version, which was a homologation build for Touring Car Racing. Only 3,000 of them were made, as this was the requirement to participate in the series. They had to sell them for the street to qualify. It had a Garret T3 turbo with adjustable waste gate. The turbo was not water cooled, so whenever you came home from a full throttle Autobahn run, you had to take it easy the last few miles and when you got home let it idle for a few minutes to give the turbo time to cool off. If you didn't, you would ruin the turbo bearings, as the oil would burn to coal when not circulating and that would eat up the bearing over time. Lots of them did die because of that. RS Turbo drivers used to greet one another with a number of fingers, meaning on what number of Turbo they had in there already.
Mine never died, I sold it running like new. And I rode it hard. I remember one time I got the Turbo glowing red after a 25 mile full throttle run.
Any of you ever drove a half an hour or longer at top speed? You can where I was born. And mine had the waste gate adjusted from factory 0.3bar to 0.8bar, which was the max before you had to make changes to injection and ignition timing. Rule of thumb back then was every 0.1barmore equals about 10-15 horsepower more. This thing was a mean SOB. 25% visco differential lock and front wheel drive. What a machine...

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Charon on 08/19/12 at 19:17:21

It wasn't in a car, but yes, I have driven long periods of time at full throttle. Way back when I was in the Air Force, I drove a Sears Allstate Super Cruisaire (rebranded Vespa 125) from Biloxi, MS, to Tampa, FL. Most of the time was wide open. When I arrived, I saw the tip of the exhaust pipe was white inside, for the very first time. Usually, with the 1:16 gas/oil premix the pipe was black.

Most of 20 years ago I was cutting tall grass, using a Snapper riding mower with an 8 hp Briggs flat-head engine. It was getting dark, almost too dark to mow. I chanced to glance at the muffler and saw it glowing orange, with a blue flame about two or three inches long coming out of it. Yup, gasoline engines waste a LOT of heat.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/12 at 19:44:32

Riding with the Dragon group after dark, you can see our sporty muffler cores glowing red and see the blue-white acceleration ghost flame of the hard roll ons and the blatt puffs of flame from the roll-off deceleration blatts. Our bikes "do the dragon thing" pretty good after dark, actually. They are quite entertaining to watch.

Turbos live hard lives in that sort of exhaust heat, and some big Rotella lubed trucks have two large turbos, one on each side. 20 psi + boost pressures are being generated, using a bypass gate in the turbo itself to handle the overpressure.

Think of what is going on compression-wise when you feed in a 20-25 psi intercooled air charge into the cylinder, then compress that charge 20:1 until it is literally red hot, then blast it with a fuel mist to start the combustion process which starts out red hot and goes way way up from there.

The resulting superheated exhaust gas goes through the turbine side of the turbo, this cranks the 100-150,000 rpm shaft spin that forces the compressor blades to make the large volume 20-25 psi intercooled air charge for the next cylinder intake cycle.

And Rotella is there, on the cylinder walls and piston skirt, up in the head on the valve stems and guides and down inside the turbo itself, day in and day out .... that robust brunette just keeps on ticking for a whole lot of miles.

So, Rotella T-6 is notorious for handling heat well, justifiably notorious with the people who really have to deal with some serious heat.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/19/12 at 21:36:41

I ought to lube the shift lever and kick stand pivots with Rotella. :)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/12 at 21:39:15

I think the white lithium grease spray would grab a lot less dirt,

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Dave on 08/20/12 at 08:28:32

465558524D53414D340 wrote:

I ought to lube the shift lever and kick stand pivots with Rotella. :)

Use your spray chain lube on those!

Wait a minute......most Savage riders don't have any cans of chain lube. ;D

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/20/12 at 10:59:16

566D6077666A71776C646976050 wrote:

[quote author=465558524D53414D340 link=1345340038/30#37 date=1345437401]I ought to lube the shift lever and kick stand pivots with Rotella. :)

Use your spray chain lube on those!

Wait a minute......most Savage riders don't have any cans of chain lube. ;D[/quote]
You'll laugh, but the Owner's Manual says to use motor oil.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Savage_Rob on 08/20/12 at 13:04:22

I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense. It was 108 with a heat index of 112. I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage. However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it. It was still in pretty good shape. I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity. However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by tizzyfit on 08/23/12 at 10:02:51

6250475056546E635E53310 wrote:

I've been using 5W40 Rotella T6 for the past 2 oil and filter changes on my 06 S40 and can honestly say, so far, no adverse effects over the past 1,800 miles.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by bill67 on 08/23/12 at 13:17:06

2C312222213E312C580 wrote:

[quote author=6250475056546E635E53310 link=1345340038/30#41 date=1345493062]I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense. It was 108 with a heat index of 112. I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage. However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it. It was still in pretty good shape. I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity. However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/12 at 16:11:33

5D56535309083F0 wrote:

[quote author=2C312222213E312C580 link=1345340038/30#42 date=1345741371][quote author=6250475056546E635E53310 link=1345340038/30#41 date=1345493062]I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense. It was 108 with a heat index of 112. I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage. However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it. It was still in pretty good shape. I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity. However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by rfw2003 on 08/23/12 at 17:10:25

That's what it sounded like to me as well :)

Maybe the light is starting to peak out just a little in Billand :P

R.F.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by verslagen1 on 08/23/12 at 17:18:17

16353D3F3C35353C2B590 wrote:

[quote author=5D56535309083F0 link=1345340038/30#43 date=1345753026][quote author=2C312222213E312C580 link=1345340038/30#42 date=1345741371][quote author=6250475056546E635E53310 link=1345340038/30#41 date=1345493062]I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense. It was 108 with a heat index of 112. I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage. However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it. It was still in pretty good shape. I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity. However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.

I've been using 5W40 Rotella T6 for the past 2 oil and filter changes on my 06 S40 and can honestly say, so far, no adverse effects over the past 1,800 miles.[/quote]
If the motor didn't blow up that must be some good oil.[/quote]

Now, I realize that Billish has a somewhat different syntax from English, but durned if that didn't sound like Bill was saying that Rotella T-6 must be some good oil .....

Anybody translate that any differently?

(With Billish, it is always good to get a second translation if it is anything important.)

[/quote]
I gonna guess that his praise is conditional... "If the motor didn't blow up" then "that must be some good oil"
And since he's already done more mileage than bill has on his bike, he must be impressed. I'll have to read the mileage on my bike. Don't know what oil was in it before I got it, but T6 in it since. And that's over 5,000 miles I think on a mostly stock engine.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/12 at 18:01:58

Now Bill freely admits he has never changed the Klotz in his Savage and he says that in the over the 7 years it has been in the sump he's put 7,000 and some change miles on the bike. And he's never adjusted the valves or done any other maintenance -- the oil takes care of it all.

So I guess "not blowing up the engine" really IS the Billish standard of excellence and any oil that doesn't go kablooie on you "must be good oil".

I wonder, does Bill think we are cheating on him when we swap out oil filters and put in new oil? Does he think it is unethical of us to use feeler gages to adjust the valves and for us to use digital calipers to tune up the ~~starter solenoid~~ decomp actuation point?

In his world, you personally don't have to do these things -- that is your oil's job to take care of those sorts of things.

All you have to do is use good oil. ::)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by verslagen1 on 08/23/12 at 18:37:10

06252D2F2C25252C3B490 wrote:

Now Bill freely admits he has never changed the Klotz in his Savage and he says that in the over the 7 years it has been in the sump he's put 7,000

I don't think his driveway is that long. ;D

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Charon on 08/23/12 at 18:50:00

I wasn't completely sure whether Bill was (conditionally) admitting Rotella T6 to be good oil, or whether he was referring to the 15W-50 or 20W-50 oil used by SavageRob, who was considering changing to T6. I gotta admit it SEEMED like he might be condoning T6. But T6 still doesn't have a picture of a motorcycle on the jug.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/12 at 20:43:23

So, the most accurate translation is "confused" yet again.

There is no consensus on Bill, except that he is confused on his communications thang yet again.

At least he is consistent in his confusion ....

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/23/12 at 21:10:19

0A2921232029292037450 wrote:

You can try to lead horse to the water, but you certainly could not make it drink...

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by bill67 on 08/24/12 at 03:38:14

I think its funny when some one put in a certain oil and had no problems,Theres over a 100 difference oil you could put in and have no problem.Its like saying I put in Mobil gas in my car yesterday and so for no problems.I rode to Wal Mart yesterday no problems with the tires must be good tires.Now do you guys get it.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/12 at 17:12:33

What's your take on that one?

I get the gist being he's gotten oiled up 100 different times with no problem, that he's had gas inside his car while rolling (and that's a good thing? :P ) and his tires are good tires because they carry him to Walmart.

:-?

I think I'm going to take down my Billish Translator shingle and just go out and abuse my own oil some while I still can.

:-?

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Cavi Mike on 08/24/12 at 18:21:23

Excuse me for not wanting to read through 4 pages of small-talk but has the analysis come back and if so, could you put it in the first post?

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by wernermeister on 08/24/12 at 18:33:06

7A5951535059595047350 wrote:

Big difference with liquid cooled engines vs air-cooled!

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ZAR on 08/24/12 at 18:34:42

6241494B484141485F2D0 wrote:

Bills comments make perfect sense to me. He must have some Kentuck in his heritage!

For all you neophyte translators out there...and the ones that don't read or speak Billease....

You can drive through a STOP sign every day for years without getting a ticket.....but that don't make it legal! So.........You might use brand X oil for 50,000 miles without blowing up your engine.....but does not make it the best oil for your engine.

Comprendre????

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/12 at 18:38:36

Cavi doesn't want to have to sort the bull from the shite, so here is the Reader's Digest Condensed Version, just for him.

The oil didn't really have to be changed, there was nothing wrong with it.
The abuse wasn't severe enough to hurt the oil (although it tapped out the people side of things pretty durn good).

==============

ZAR has won the translation-a-thon is now our official Billish Translator !!! Hip-hip Horah !!

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ZAR on 08/24/12 at 18:46:36

6F4C4446454C4C4552200 wrote:

Gee thanks OF! I guess with that and $1.50 I can get a cup of coffee at Micky D's ;D

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ZAR on 08/24/12 at 18:51:32

150E1D4F0 wrote:

[quote author=6F4C4446454C4C4552200 link=1345340038/45#57 date=1345858716]
Cavi doesn't want to have to sort the bull from the shite, so here is the Reader's Digest Condensed Version, just for him.

The oil didn't really have to be changed, there was nothing wrong with it.
The abuse wasn't severe enough to hurt the oil (although it tapped out the people side of things pretty durn good).

==============

ZAR has won the translation-a-thon is now our official Billish Translator !!! Hip-hip Horah !!

Gee thanks OF! I guess with that and $1.50 I can get a cup of coffee at Micky D's ;D[/quote]

Oh......just for the record.......I only use RotellaT dino in my scooters(unless an emergency of course,cause any oil's better than no oil!)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/24/12 at 22:15:59

6143544B6F4B4947220 wrote:

Excuse me for not wanting to read through 4 pages of small-talk but has the analysis come back and if so, could you put it in the first post?

The further "Analysis" was actually Oldfeller's request to fill some in a clear bottle and let it sit for quiet some time. The "Analysis" lies in that he wanted to see how the stuff looks like after things a have settled in there.
He probably will request me to take another photo of it and see how it looks then.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/24/12 at 22:23:23

Im pretty sure OF was a urologist in another life..
He just Lives to collect & study samples.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/12 at 22:35:41

Actually, I wuz too cheap for him to be throwing good oil away.

Since he now admits it isn't hurt any, he'll use it for something useful. Chainsaw bar oil, lawnmower oil, give him a little ZDDP boost to his car oil .... something useful.

I had an old Datsun truck that I'd pour in the drain oil from my then new Acura (since momma's baby never saw any dino oil in her entire life and the Acura people still wanted it changed at 3,500 miles anyway during warranty). It worked out pretty good, I had my synthetic drain oil saved up in milk jugs and the old orange Datsun would drink at them steadily going right along. It liked bright clean practically new full synthetic drain oil just fine.

::) Best oil it had ever tasted.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/25/12 at 05:13:58

In fact I think my lawn mower DOES need a little more oil.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by tizzyfit on 08/29/12 at 00:25:03

6F4D5A45614547492C0 wrote:

Excuse me for not wanting to read through 4 pages of small-talk but has the analysis come back and if so, could you put it in the first post?

Ask Bill67, he'll explain it to you. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Gyrobob on 08/29/12 at 06:32:20

765D54475A5B350 wrote:

Good point. That 20 degrees makes a big diff to us human sissies, but a machine could care less about oil temp unless it is getting near that temp that causes it to burn (start breaking down, maybe mid 200 range for dino oil). Any air-cooled stock motorcycle moving more than about 20 mph will not overheat its oil no matter how hot it is outside.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Cavi Mike on 08/29/12 at 10:15:50

I keep reading "result" as "report" and was thinking he sent a sample of his oil to get analyzed.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by bill67 on 08/29/12 at 13:40:42

4A687F604460626C090 wrote:

I keep reading "result" as "report" and was thinking he sent a sample of his oil to get analyzed.

He doesn't dare do that .

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Charon on 08/29/12 at 17:35:51

5A5154540E0F380 wrote:

[quote author=4A687F604460626C090 link=1345340038/60#66 date=1346260550]I keep reading "result" as "report" and was thinking he sent a sample of his oil to get analyzed.

He doesn't dare do that .[/quote]

Any more than you dare to send in your Klotz for analysis. Particularly remembering that a Used Oil Analysis is not very useful without a Virgin Oil Analysis for comparison.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by ralfyguy on 08/29/12 at 17:58:08

As I stated previously, it was meant to be funny, because OF wanted me to fill some in a bottle and let it sit for some time AS analysis.
I never had the intention, not the required knowledge where to send it to, nor do I have the financial means to do such thing. :)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/29/12 at 21:41:48

Bill,

Here's 2,000 miles on a 900cc Ducati .....

http://www.ridexperience.com/files/2012/04/ScreenShot2012-04-10at12431PM-e1334203031986.png

..... and a big Yamaha stratoliner ....

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2407790

..... and a BMW (just for some variety)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2668218

All bikes agree, Rotella T-6 is mmmmm....mmmmm GOOD !!!

It's sorta sad, but I can't seem to find any UOA data on Klotz ...... :P

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by bill67 on 08/30/12 at 08:42:26

I send in some,gasoline with Sea Foam in it,Klotz oil, brake fluid,Battery fluid,put some air from my tires in little balloons,to have them analyzed. Hope they come out with and A rating.

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/30/12 at 20:40:23

It would be just fine Bill, as Klotz has no VOA data to compare it against.

Instead of balloons though, I'd use a virgin condom instead if I were you.

;)

(since you are gonna get really screwed up by that analysis anyway)

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Gyrobob on 08/31/12 at 15:32:43

A buddy just got a big jug of rotella T5 semi-synth 10-40. Any probs with using that in a Savage?

Title: Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/12 at 15:52:31

T-5 semi-synth has no JASO rating -- that is the biggest rub.

Brief research indicates it is being used in some bikes that require 10w30 oil (it comes in that weight too) but it carries no clutch testing JASO approvals so far.

Cost is not far off T-6, so folks question not going with T-6 in the first place
(if your bike can digest a 40 weight oil, that is).