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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344806128 Message started by Blue04Savage on 08/12/12 at 14:15:27 |
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Title: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions. Post by Blue04Savage on 08/12/12 at 14:15:27 Hello all, First time posting here. I recently picked up a 04savage, and just have a few questions. 1. When I kill the engine after riding for awhile it almost always "farts". lol Basically it's as if it was pushing one last puff of exhaust out, but it seems a little delayed, and slightly louder than normal. I wouldn't quite call it a backfire. Is this normal?? 2. I noticed that it takes a while for the bike to warm up before riding, and if i ride it when it's still somewhat cold, it runs like crap. Very sluggish. I know it's carbeurated, so is this why? It's been awhile since i've owned something with a carb. 3. I looked at the section on recommend oils, and additives, but am left with a question still of whether or not the oil I got from the yamaha dealer I bought the bike from is good to use. The oil is: Yamalube Performance All Purpose Four Stroke Oil. SAE20W-50 I saw something on the oil thread on here about JASO ratings....not sure what those are so....... this oil says JASO T903:2006 Any suggestions? I need to do an oil change soon, but don't want to use the wrong oil. I saw on the bike that it says to use 10W-40, so i'm wondering if this is too thick to use, or if it's good to use? Also, the filter they gave me is called: HIFLO FILTRO Premium Oil Filter Part# HF137 Any good? Ok to use? This is my first bike, so sorry about the amateur questions, but I just want to make sure i'm using the right stuff. Thanks guys. If this oil and filter aren't good, what should I use? Thanks a bunch.....i'm happy I found this site. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/12 at 14:21:13 547A63732F22457760777173160 wrote:
Yep, normal & better than a lot of them.,some sound like a gun, then its time for some problem solving. Quote:
Tried 1/2 choke? Quote:
Yea, man, most likely its fine. Its the $$$/quart thing & whether or not its good for flat tappet types.The rockers get wiped by the cam & its a pretty low pressure motor, goitta have some slick stuff in there to keep it happy. Best bang for the buck, IMO, Rotella,.,.dino oil,.thats my feelin on it, anyway. Quote:
Dam JOG, when you gonna learn? |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/12/12 at 16:13:39 Yamaha oil is a Mobile oil one of the best you can use without going to a premium motorcycle racing oil.And T903 means a high performance oil. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Blue04Savage on 08/12/12 at 19:14:09 Ok. Thanks guys. Thanks for the timely replies also. So basically i'm good to go with everything, even with the oil being a heavier weight at 20W-50 right? Just wondering why they recommend the 10W-40 for the bike though? Yeah, I do use the choke when i'm in a hurry. It's probably just me being dumb about it. I'm new to owning motorcycles, so there are some things that i'm just not sure about. I know cars, but that's a different machine. Thanks again! |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/12/12 at 20:01:38 Blue, You are new, so you didn't know any better. Bill isn't someone you want to take any maintenance advice from, mainly because he has never done any, ever. He always agrees with you, whatever it is that you seem to want to do. As a matter of fact he has been enjoined by the list moderators to NEVER offer his maintenance advice to unknowing new persons ever again. They don't know any better and they will act on what he says. Justin, as the head judge of the Kangaroo Kourt that convicted Bill years ago, won't pass the final judgement down on Bill, so the moderators won't execute Bill just yet .... unless Justin has decided to speak finally. Justin, Bill has once again offered bad advice to yet another new person -- say, what was that sentence you passed on him again? "If Bill ever offers bad advice to newbies again, we will change his list name to ......" Say it Justin, jest go ahead and say it ..... ================== T903 and T904 are test and reporting procedures for JASO certifications. Specifically they are never to be used as any form of published "claim of certification" as they are just a specified test series and some report paperwork, not a JASO cert or approval. Saying T903:2006 is saying you used the forms for an obsolete done been replaced multiple times by now test series and report series used to ask for a JASO certification. Or worse, you are saying you sent paperwork in to JASO back in in 2006 and got no cert nor any form of approval for your trouble. (JASO changed last month, btw, to JASO MA-2 standards, so all the tests and paperwork changed yet again) Or you are trying to do something, mebbe it says that you are trying to BS your customers in some fashion. You read the standard yourself and tell us what it says. www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV0412.pdf Is it good oil? Yes, for a Yamaha big V twin or a Harley -- not so much for a Savage. Use it up and then see about getting a more appropriate weight of oil, and PLEASE get one with enough ZDDP in it to support your Savage's flat tappets that Yamaha big twins and Harleys DO NOT HAVE inside them. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/12 at 20:44:06 Dang if I remember. I have great ideas all the time & then forget them,, I think,, heck, I dunno,, I cant remember.. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/12/12 at 21:06:37 So Bill is saved from having his list name changed to Billshutter yet again because the judge over his case has a mild case of OFS and can't seem to remember what the Kourt's selected punitive sentence was going to be .... Let's see, it was either the ugly Hillbilly, the BIG Hook or else getting his list name permanently changed. All hail the Kourt, Justice is swerved yet again !!! It is the American way --- ask OJ Simpson's lawyers iffen you don't believe it. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Blue04Savage on 08/13/12 at 09:13:18 I read through a lot of the link you put up for me on the oil testing Oldfeller, but a lot of it might as well have been in another language to me. lol Just being honest. Thanks for posting it though, i'll give it another read through later on. Bottom line, i just need to know what engine oil I should use for this bike? I need to do an oil change really soon here, and now I don't know what to do/use. :-? Any suggestions on an oil I can find locally? Or if not, something I can order online. I don't care where I have to get it from, but I just want to know that it's the right oil to use. Side note: What do JASO, and ZDDP stand for? Thanks again for the info. I just want to get this done right. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Blue04Savage on 08/13/12 at 11:00:17 I found the answers to what the JASO, and ZDDP stand for, but am still wondering what oil to use. I looked through the recommended oil section, and I see there are only two oils recommened. The Rotella T Triple Protection 15W40 and Rotella T-6 5W40. Are these sold as actual motorcycle oils then? Do you need to use any ZDDP booster with these? I can't seem to find a straight answer on this, but I will keep looking. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks again. :) |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by arteacher on 08/13/12 at 11:07:56 Just use Rotella T6 5W-40 and fuggeddabadit. Asking an oil related question around here is like smoking in a fire works factory. ;D |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Blue04Savage on 08/13/12 at 11:15:36 LMAO. I'm starting to see that. I just want to know what's good enough to use in my bike without fugging it up. lol darn. ;D :) But just to be clear, the Rotella T6 5W40 is an actual motorcycle oil correct? Not a car oil that people are using for their bikes right? Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by arteacher on 08/13/12 at 11:28:25 It is actually a diesel oil, but certified for motorcycle use. It has enough of the ZDDP stuff for our cam and lifters (ZDDP is bad for catalytic converters, and diesels don't have them), and no additives that affect the wet clutch. Keep your idle over 1000 rpm, so the oil will reach the cam shaft, change the oil when it gets dirty and your filter every other oil change, check the cam chain tensioner at 15000 miles or if it gets noisy, and ride the thing. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/12 at 12:09:17 Valves,, gotta adjust them once in a while,,about 5,000 mile intervals,till the adjusters hammer down & work harden, Short trips, heating & cooling cycles, tend to pull the cam chain, the tensioner will need attention, maybe before 15,000 miles, but Verslagen has the best answer,, |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 12:35:57 446A73633F32556770676163060 wrote:
It is not a motorcycle oil,There are a lot of oils that are made for motorcycles,That whats best to use.Rotella is a cheap oil thats why Old Fellow likes it. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by verslagen1 on 08/13/12 at 12:42:27 545F5A5A0001360 wrote:
It is not a motorcycle oil,There are a lot of oils that are made for motorcycles,That whats best to use.Rotella is a cheap oil thats why Old Fellow likes it.[/quote] Rotella is a Heavy Duty Universal oil WITH the required JASO MA spec that we require. Being that it's in higher production levels than any m/c oil, it can be produced more economically. :P |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Blue04Savage on 08/13/12 at 12:43:30 Alright cool. My bike only has 3500 miles on it right now, so i'm assuming that i'm good to go for awhile before I have to worry about adjusting valves, and the cam/timing chain correct? I'll just have a motorcycle dealer do that for me. Any way to know when the valves need to be adjusted? I mean they sound loud to me as they are, but i'm told that is normal for these bikes, so i don't really know what "actual loud" is for these. Does that make sense? Thanks again. :) |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 12:49:29 Bill brings up an interesting point -- Savage oils vs "motorcycle oils" A Savage, because of the flat tappet cam system it uses, requires 1,200 ppm of ZDDP to stay healthy. Some here say 1,500 ppm, some say 1,800 ppm. Key thing is there isn't enough ZDDP in any (but two) of the readily available oils. BTW, Even Walmart counts Rotella T and T-6 as motorcycle oils -- Bill, ya gotta get with the program there, buddy. Locally available motorcycle oils are now all rated (all but the two Rotellas that is) with JASO MA-2, a brand new oil standard that lowered ZDDP levels from 1,200-1,350 ppm down to 800-1,100 ppm. They did this because of all the new 2013 catalytic converter, fuel injected motorcycles coming out this year. So, JASO MA-2 is not good enough for a Savage engine's flat tappet cam/valve system. Read this from our Tech Section and don't listen to Bill. Easy enough to remember to do, I think. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565/0#0 (Bill is entertaining though, you can tease him some if you want to. Just remember to be nice to him --- soon enough we will ALL be lined up on the porch with him, a rock'n and a cacklin' at each other in Billish. For example, you could ask him how to adjust your valves on your Savage, I always find that one entertaining.) |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 12:57:36 Oldfeller wrote the text section,He thinks Shell Rotella is the only oil made.Shell makes a motorcycle oil but isn't sold in the USA,Shell says in their motorcycle oil section that motorcycles are twice as rough on oil as cars,That the reason people should use motorcycle oil in motorcycles,On the bottles of Rotella its says nothing about for motorcycle. Got to read the certs Bill, that fine print stuff where they say what the oil is good for. In with all the various types of heavy equipment that these particular Heavy Duty Engine Oils are approved for you will find JASO MA which in spec speak means "approved for use in non-catalytic equipped Japanese motorcycles that need oil in the 1,200 to 1,350 ppm of ZDDP levels" ;) The fine print on the jug counts as "data" and "facts", both of which make Bill break out in a rash, so he tries to avoid them whenever he can. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 13:10:25 Type in Shell motorcycle oil,It say nothing about Rotella,One guy tried it and his clutch started slipping he say don't use it in motorcycles |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 13:11:37 OF tell me something what other oil is good beside Rotella. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 13:15:34 32393C3C6667500 wrote:
Bill, I call you on your sources on that last one. Who said it and where? Hey Justin -- is your memory getting any better by any chance? Are you sure you don't remember the Ugly Hillbilly, the BIG Hook or getting his list name changed permanently to Billshutter? Dozens and dozens of us here use the Rotella products Bill, do you expect to say stuff like that and get away with it? Hey Justin, what sort of oil does the Judge use? Does your clutch slip? |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by arteacher on 08/13/12 at 13:19:08 Blue04Savage.....see what I mean? ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 13:20:20 1E30293965680F3D2A3D3B395C0 wrote:
With a premium motorcycle oil your valves want need adjusting for 20000 miles.Any good motorcycle mechanic can tell by listening to your bike if the valve need adjusting,Same with cars when I was young. I am 73 years old have had a lot of cars trucks motorcycles snowmobiles bobcats and of lawnmowers.Plus being a contractor a lot of equipment with gasoline motors,Generators power cement finishers and etc,And I never went cheap with taking care of them. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 13:20:54 Yup, it's called an oil war .... we do that from time to time, don't we? Bill is feeling fiesty today, somebody else answer his questions for a while, I've got to go get ready for work. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 13:25:53 597A7270737A7A7364160 wrote:
Bill, I call you on your sources on that last one. Who said it and where? Hey Justin -- is your memory getting any better by any chance? Are you sure you don't remember the Ugly Hillbilly, the BIG Hook or getting his list name changed permanently to Billshutter? Dozens and dozens of us here use the Rotella products Bill, do you expect to say stuff like that and get away with it? Hey Justin, what sort of oil does the Judge use? Does your clutch slip?[/quote] Type is Shell motorcycle oil and you will see it. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 13:33:34 OF tell me something what other oil is good beside Rotella. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 13:44:07 Bill doesn't know how to find anything, including his own source materials (this leads some to think he makes it all up outta his own noggin). He also can't find our own tech section listing on oils. But then again, he's Bill -- at least he is consistent at that. NEW LISTING: AMAZON.COM PRIME (FREE SHIPPING) OILS) We realize folks are going to have to get on line to source Savage compatible oils and boosters. AMAZON.COM has the best prices seen so far, so we list the appropriate Amazon oils here along with a notation if they are able to be shipped for free under Prime. We also know this Prime free shipping comes and goes according to whether there is stock on hand at your nearest Amazon owned warehouse, so PLEASE watch your shipping charges as you check out for any unplanned surprises. IF YOU WANT A REAL "overkill" SUPER-OIL (way way beyond reasonable needs) Redline 10W40 Motorcycle Oil is $11 a quart here (bought by the case). This motorcycle oil whups everybody on ZDDP by like twice over, so don't be looking for a measly mere JASO rating on it. Bill looks at this red stuff and is filled with angst and longing as it is within our $12 a quart budget and his Klotz is only half the oil this is and Klotz costs even more (and then you have to pay for shipping on top of that). Specs are here http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=109&pcid=21 Free Amazon Prime shipping is at http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-42424-10W40-Motorcycle/dp/B0084DZ08W/ref=sr_1_... |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by rfw2003 on 08/13/12 at 13:49:45 72797C7C2627100 wrote:
He never said no other oil was good for our use, what the purpose of the recommended oil thread was, is for easily locally obtainable oil at a low cost. There are lots of Syn oils, and I'm sure some racing specific dino oils out there that are good for our little savage but most of those exceed the cost proposed plus they are not locally available in the majority of areas around the U.S. Currently Rotella Triple T and Rotella T6 are the only cost effective and locally available oils that are everywhere. As for you claim that Rotella isn't for Motorcycle use, go pull the tech sheet from Shells site for Rotella Triple protection and you will see that it specifically says for use in motorcycles as well for recommended applications. In another post here I did link to the PDF's on both T6 and Triple T. Most motorcycle specific oils now are moving onto the new JASO MA-2 spec which is effectively neutering them for use in any motorcycle that uses a flat tappet style system since they are dropping the ZDDP levels so that the CATS will last the 100K miles the EPA mandates. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by bill67 on 08/13/12 at 14:01:25 Auto stores around me carry Amsoil.As far as being high priced oil your only talking maybe $20 a year more for a premium oil.And you can get the right weight oil Suzuki calls for. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 15:28:24 272C29297372450 wrote:
Bill, as usual you toss out tidbits that aren't completely real. Back in 1987, a 10w40 multi-weight was a dino oil -- there were no synthetics for motorcycle oils. Now that we do have full synthetics, they can flow better at low temps while keeping full weight grade much better at temperatures hundreds of degrees beyond what a dino oil can take. A 5w40 full synthetic is functionally much better than a 10w40 dino, and a 15w40 dino snuggles in nicely between the 10w40 and 20w50 dinos that are listed in the Suzuki owners manual. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by renegade1 on 08/13/12 at 16:23:00 Maybe cause some anguments here but, I just got off the phone with our local Lucas Oil supplier BIG RIG here in Canada and spoke to the guy for about 45 minutes ( really helpfull and plesant to talk to ) and a "Lucas Oil 15w40 Diesel Magnum" part # 275, has a zinc level of 1524 ppm. This is what I am going to use in my bike. BIG RIG also sells the zinc additive for about $11.00 a bottle. This guy races (car), and has a 8L oil quantity, uses Lucas Oil 10w30 that has a rating of about 900 ppm and uses a third of a bottle of the booster and has had no problem at all (not even close) with his flat-tapped cam. The additive boost's it up that much, which IMO is pretty awsome! |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 17:42:06 Watch out for the Lucas brand ZDDP booster -- Lucas does not recommend it for wet clutch motorcycle engines. WHY? They would not say. Moly is suspected, but isn't confirmed. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by renegade1 on 08/13/12 at 18:02:01 top knotch OF i will call em' out on it and see what they say. thanks for a new question to ask them. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by SaVaGeEaRL on 08/13/12 at 20:08:15 Rotella t6 is NOT a diesel oil. It's a universal oil and has a Jaso and ma rating, along with high level of zddp. It's perfect for our savage. I use it now and add some of that redline zddp booster just for more peace of mind. When I called the Lucas rep here he said to NEVER to use Lucas in a wet clutch due to moly. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by RanDaMan on 08/14/12 at 09:42:48 [quote author=27383E3924231222122A38347F4D0 link=1344806128/0#12 date=1344884957]Valves,, gotta adjust them once in a while,,about 5,000 mile intervals,till the adjusters hammer down & work harden, quote] not trying to hi-jack a thread here but my bike is just over 5000 miles at the moment, what valves would need adjusting? :-? |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by denistheruski on 08/14/12 at 17:01:25 Even though this thread has turned into an oil battle (maybe not a full out war), I just wanted to say that I also have the "sluggish start" issue with my 2005 (4000 miles). I changed the oil recently and I'm waiting for an air filter to come in (my current one is pretty gunked up) to see if that helps. |
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Title: Re: Hi. New guy here with a couple quick questions Post by Blue04Savage on 08/14/12 at 22:08:51 Well I changed the oil and filter on the savage today. Turned out to be a pita, and I also had the pleasure of burning myself with hot oil. fun fun. Ha ha. Sounds like everyone needs to ease up a bit on the oil debate here. :) Thanks for the advice though. I used the Rotella Triple Protection 15W40. We'll see how it is in 1500 miles. I'm trusting you guys on this one, and going against what the dealer told me, so don't let me down with the oil. ;) |
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