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Message started by Tinfoil-Jim on 08/11/12 at 13:45:16

Title: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by Tinfoil-Jim on 08/11/12 at 13:45:16

In the last few rides that I have taken, mostly over 150-200 miles each, I have noticed two different things.

First, is noticed oil consumption. Now I have not pulled the plug yet to see what it looks like (it's been over 105* here during the day and my shop heats up to over 140* and is still over 100* at 5am). I am adding roughly a pint to the crankcase every 300-400 miles. I switched over to the 15W-40 T5 Rotella oil. I have not noticed any oil smoke and there are no oil puddles on the ground after my rides. Really makes me wonder where the heck it is all going. I have not pulled the air filter assembly out either to see if it is full of oil. I am hoping that there is something easy that I can look at to see what is going on.

Second, there has been a thump inside the block that I can feel in my right foot. Now I cannot hear it, but I feel it. And No, it is not the normal vibration, this is above and beyond all that. And since it has started, it has only gotten worse. And this really has me worried. Any ideas before I start to tear it all apart during the riding season?

Bottom line is I am hoping that there is something easy that I can fix without pushing myself to the limit taking the motor apart to fix it. Sorry for being a newb! I really don't need the wife killing me over this.

Thanks in advance,

Jim B :D .

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by rfw2003 on 08/11/12 at 13:48:22

it's normal for the savage to use some oil when at hwy speeds and also in higher temps.

As for the thumping your feeling, how many miles on the bike, could be time to take a look at your timing chain tensioner

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/12 at 15:48:12

All the motor mount bolts/peg bolts tite?

How many miles since an oil change?

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by Tinfoil-Jim on 08/11/12 at 17:41:57

The oil was changed about 1500 miles ago, I know gotta change it. I have the oil and filter and planned on changing it tonight.

As for the mileage on the bike, 11,794. While I have it in the shop changing the oil, I will see if there are any motor mount bolts loose. I do really hope it is not the chain tensioner, I don't feel confident enough to take the motor apart that far just yet. I have my Clymer manual, and I have rebuilt engines, turbos, transmissions and rear ends before. Just afraid of messing the bike up. If I messed up my car, I still have the wife's tank to cruise around in until mine was fixed. Guess I am in a pickle.

Jim :D .

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/11/12 at 18:10:45

5B6C65606A3F3C39090 wrote:

Come over to McAlester and we check it out together. :)

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by Tinfoil-Jim on 08/11/12 at 22:41:54

I am afraid to ride it that far with the thump in the motor like it is. Plus, you are better than 2 hours ride from me. Let me see if some of the other stuff that the others have mentioned may be cured. And if no luck, then I will get back with you.

Thanks for the offer.

Jim B :D .

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/11/12 at 22:49:50

4671787D77222124140 wrote:

Would be actually really cool to meet a fellow Savage rider in person. I never met one before. In fact that I have never seen another Savage than mine around here...maybe once...

Well except the actual cylinder, I have turned pretty much any other of the bolts on mine, so if you think you need to look underneath the clutch cover to check and see if that thump comes from the cam chain tensioner, I'll help you. I got the tools to make it easy. :)

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by Tinfoil-Jim on 08/11/12 at 23:08:39

That would be cool, go for a ride and grab a coke from the sonic.

Jim B :D .

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/12 at 07:58:11

Once youve seen it, you can do it w/o being skeert.

You guys otta run thru the valve adjust procedure just for training. Wouldnt try to actually adjust anything, cuz the engine is sposed to be cool for that job. I guess you could cool it off.
If you cant lay a finger on the valve & hold it, its too hot to adjust. Thats just MY Opinion,

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/12 at 08:57:36

3F2026213C3B0A3A0A32202C67550 wrote:

Exactly, I don't know if that motor cools off quick enough to do all that, especially when it's hot here like that in summer. I usually start things off early in the morning with the motor stone cold.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/12 at 11:38:32

Let it sit a while, then hit it with a fine mist from the hose a second, stop, do it again & again, dont shock it more than necessary. Once its kinda cool on the outside, wait a while, let heat migrate from the inside, hit it again, otta be able to have it ready to play with by the time the burgers are eaten.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/12 at 12:38:44

637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:

Sounds like a plan :)

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by bill67 on 08/12/12 at 13:17:23

6B5C55505A0F0C09390 wrote:

There is something very easy put some premium motorcycle oil in it.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/12 at 14:23:22

Bill,, he already did that.

15W-40 T5 Rotella oil.

100* at 5 am? Seriously? Where in Hell are you? Dead center?

Okay, went & looked, Stillwater Ok.. Now I know why the water is still,, its too hot to move!

I was in Tecumseh for a while back in 72/73..

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by Charon on 08/12/12 at 14:35:23

If I remember correctly, Verslagen performed an experiment some time back during which he put some pretty high-dollar premium motorcycle oils in his. He reported the bike consumed them all, at about the same rate. I guess you could feel better knowing the exhaust smoke cost more.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/12 at 14:42:15

It was about the same here in McAlester. It was brutally hot here. Saturday two weeks ago, the wife and I went to Eufaula. It was 112 degrees out and the heat index was 122. A 30 mile ride on the superslab. I kept it around 70-75mph and the wind was like a hot blow dryer in your face. By the time we got there, the wife almost passed out. And she usually likes it hot. We then went to the bar next door to cool off and get some water and A/C. I was pretty miserable as well. The bike was really hot. The crank case almost felt as hot as the cylinder.
I rode in 100+ degrees before, but that seemed too much for riders and bike. I didn't expect it to be that bad after just 30 miles. I won't do that again, lemme tell you that. Just glad the bike had a fresh load of T-6 in it. That stuff is amazing. Not to start another oil war, just saying.
I'm not gonna ride out of town anymore when it is above 105, period.
That heat here in summer is plain nuts.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by verslagen1 on 08/12/12 at 16:05:35

If you oil consumption is up, it's likely your rings.

that thump by your right foot, you better check out.
preferrably before you own a scrap heap.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191167029

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/12 at 17:32:32

It was time for the Jerry Lewis Telathon. I was in Vegas, 76..The AF sent me there. The car we had was w/o A/C..Morning trip out to the site was allright, but the PM trip back to the squadron, it was so hot we couldnt stand to have the windows down,
Im thinking your oil thinned out & I hope you didnt hurt anything. Id change oil.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/12/12 at 21:42:42

647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:

You think that was too hot even for T-6?

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/12 at 21:50:33

Heck, man,, I dunno,,I cant imagine riding in that. There are others here who consider OIl their second language, let one of them say.It may be a good thing youre running synth,,
YOu guys have any VW's runnin around up there? If they arent dying, its not too hot for a bikes engine, Id guess.,.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/13/12 at 05:25:22

332C2A2D30370636063E2C206B590 wrote:

Haven't seen one in a long time. ;D

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/12 at 06:04:43

Hmmmm,, that mite be sayin something..YOu know, where they were designed, its not like it is in West Texas. I used to see them all the time out there.
Are they still air cooled? I knew a guy who had a VW that had a radiator in 75..I THink that thing had a radiator..

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/13/12 at 06:32:21

There is some versions of the 4 cylinder flat engine that is water cooled. They usually come out of the heavier duty pick-up versions. Also Porsche used some 4 cylinder types later on. But not many. The Porsche flat 6 is nothing but a Beetle motor with 2 more cylinders...essentially speaking.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 10:40:42

Do you think your engine got over 500 degrees? You are only talking 20^o rise in air temp over a balmy 80 up to 100 something degrees. 20-30^o up in engine oil temp is nothing to T-6

(neither would a hundred degree oil temp rise, but who is counting the small change).

If not, don't worry about the T-6, it will drain out at the end of your normal drain interval with no lumps, no sludge (no nuttin' for all I've ever seen).

For less than six bucks a quart, it is some amazingly good heat proof stuff for our little one lunger.

=============

Ralphy, when you drain it out take some pics and post your results as a "heat abuse test". Use something clean to catch the drain oil and let it sit a bit so anything that is in it can settle all the way to the bottom.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/12 at 12:10:57

There it is,, info from someone who really knows,,Thanks OF.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/13/12 at 15:13:45

I might throw it out on the weekend. I just changed it 2 weeks ago, about 100 miles on it. Y'all scared me a little now and I have my doubts now. I don't know if it reached 500 degrees, but the freshly greased kick stand pin and shift lever pin were starting to move really tough. It was greased with Ford/Lincoln/Mercury moly grease for bearings and it looked like tar. So whatever the temp was, that grease didn't make it.

Edit: Just checked and the grease is up to 275 degrees. So I suppose it must have been close to that down there where the levers are attached to, if it started to be like tar. I assume that the case was hotter, so the cylinder was even more. I guess I may have run the T-6 at the limit. It's just gonna be 14 bux to change it and to be on the safe side. Or maybe I'm just paranoid.
Like I said, it was 30 miles on the highway, doing 75mph pretty much the whole time, and then when we got into town maybe a few minutes stop and go traffic. And my bike is not running lean like a factory setup. The exhaust has no discoloration, not even a hint of gold on the header.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/12 at 16:04:50

Id hate to waste 14 bucks,, but Id hate wastin an engine a lot more,

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by Oldfeller on 08/13/12 at 16:11:04

Drain it and take some pics and make a "Heat Abuse Test, Rotella T-6" out of it. Pics of the pan that the drained oil sat in for several hours, then the oil was gently poured out of the way leaving any clumps or solids or sludge lumps sitting there attached to the bottom of the pan.

However it goes, it will be good information

(including the fact you overcooked your moly based kickstand grease at over 275^oF)

wow !!!

Hot day.

==============

if you use a clean pan and a clean funnel and a washed clean & let dry completely in the sun empty milk jug, you could preserve the practically new oil (in case it did come up roses) and you could actually put it back into the bike to complete its normal rounds if you wanted to.

It is either hurt or not, and you will soon know.

Title: Re: Nice little felt thump from motor
Post by ralfyguy on 08/13/12 at 16:37:57

46656D6F6C65656C7B090 wrote:

Hahaha, I'll see what I can do. But I do not want to put that stuff back in there.
Seriously, I rode in hot weather since years on that same bike and with less than stellar oil, but this was the worst ride ever. To be honest I didn't think it was gonna be that bad. I didn't expect that. The difference in feel between 102 and 112 is insane. 102 I did before and it wasn't really all that bad. Not comfortable, but okay. But 112 is plain idiotic, especially with darn near 40% humidity. I learned something new. I should have turned around after a few miles at speed. Wasn't all that bad in town, but on the highway it was bad. Never again...