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Message started by Dave on 08/06/12 at 05:45:30

Title: Break In Oil
Post by Dave on 08/06/12 at 05:45:30

I have replaced the crank bearings in my engine, and the cylinder will have a fresh hone and new rings. I was planning on just putting a normal 10W-40 motorcycle oil with the required ZDDP back in.....but then I read this on Page 145 of the Clymer manual:

"The mono-grade oils recommend for break in and normal use provide a more superior bedding pattern for the rings and cylinder than do mutli-trade oils. As a result, pistong ring and cylinder bore life are greatly increased."

They also recommend no more than 1/3rd throttle for the first 500 miles and to change the rpm frequently and avoid steady rpm cruising. After 500 miles they allow for more throttle - but suggest that full throttle not be used until after 1,000 miles.

The chart allows 30 weight oil for anything over 60 degrees and 40 weight for anything over 86 degrees. I plan on using 30 weight Valvoline Racing Oil and Lucas ZDDP additive.

Anybody have any reason not to follow this break-in plan?

http://i47.tinypic.com/33bgwpf.jpg

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Cavi Mike on 08/06/12 at 06:06:55

You probably wouldn't ever need a multi-viscosity oil where you live anyways, they're only needed in cold climates. Here's all you need to know about viscosity oils.

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Oldfeller on 08/06/12 at 07:57:51

Here's wishing you most excellent luck on your new engine !!!!

When it is all over, what do you think caused your roller bearings to scald and ugly up like that? You have to have some gut feel for something that did it.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Dave on 08/06/12 at 08:02:34

Thanks - That was a very informative description of mulit-grade oils. It did not realy explain why the Clymer's Manual believes better break in occurs with straight weight oils....but does confirm that I probably don't actually need a multi-grade in my motorcycle. My riding window really occurs between 60 and 100 degrees...with most really being between 70 and 90. And our weather changes pretty slowly for the most part, so I could easily changes between 30 and 40 weights when spring/summer/fall arrived.

The only problem for most people would be to find a convenient source of mono-grade oils for motorcycle use......that have not only the the required ZDDP.....but also have the additives necessary for seal protection and clean running. Most of the straight grade oils I see listed are Racing oils and have plenty of ZDDP - but may not have the necessary stuff for long term use. This is not a problem for the break period which will only take a few weeks.

(There is a lengthy oil thread that is currently discussing the type of oil to use for continual use.....I am only intendending to explore the break in period in this thread).

I did look at the Lucas Breank in Additive and they claim mixing their bottle with 4.5 quarts of oil provides 5,000 ppm of ZDDP. This bottle was $ 18 and I intend to mix a bit less than half with the 2 quarts my bike will take. It has been written elsewhere that 1,200 ppm of ZDDP is all that is necessary for a bike that is broken in, and mixing this bottle with 18 quarts of oil will provide a level of about 1,200 ppm - which means about $ 1.00 a quart for the additive.
http://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/17_EngineBreak_InAdditve_TBzinc.pdf

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Cavi Mike on 08/06/12 at 08:40:06

I would believe that it's the lack of additives in a mono-grade that is better for the break-in period.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by bill67 on 08/06/12 at 09:23:31

If ZDDP keeps metal from wearing,Why would the motor break in faster.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Dave on 08/06/12 at 12:44:09

707B7E7E2425120 wrote:

If ZDDP keeps metal from wearing,Why would the motor break in faster.

I have no idea why they make a claim in the Lucas information about an engine breaking in faster....maybe it has something to do with other stuff in that bottle and not the ZDDP. If you read their information it says they have additives to help seat the rings.....and then then say that it also has extreme pressure additive package for the cam.....and I assume that is where the ZDDP comes in.

QOUTE FROM LUCAS...."The new Lucas Oil TB Zinc-Plus has an additive package that will help seat in the new rings while providing an excellent extreme pressure additive package that will help protect the entire valve train, and of course, the camshaft."

It is my undestanding that ZDDP is an extreme pressure lubricant and only provides lubrication when the base oil cannot. The ZDDP works on the cam, rocker arms and lifters where pressures are high enough to break the oil film down......not in the bearings, piston or cylinder.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Drifter on 08/06/12 at 13:47:21

Break in oil is for old style flat tappet push rod car engines, the first few miles and proper lube are reguired for the cam lobes, heavy spring tension and flat tappets are hard on cam lobes.

Motorcycle engines are not near as hard on the cam lobes.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Dave on 08/06/12 at 15:59:40

6F59424D5F4E592B0 wrote:

I started this discussion about the comment in the Clymer's manual about using straight weight oil to provide better break in of the cylinder and rings......not really about the ZDDP and the cam.

I wondered if anyone had read this elsewhere or had an opinion on the mono-grade oils.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by bill67 on 08/06/12 at 16:41:37

Corvettes come with Mobil 1 so they don't use brake in oil.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by SALB on 08/06/12 at 17:06:32

3A3134346E6F580 wrote:

Corvettes come with Mobil 1 so they don't use brake in oil.

I can't think of any modern car that requires break in oil. We're talkin apples and oranges here. :-?

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Drifter on 08/08/12 at 05:24:03

I broke in my (rebuilt by me) chevy small block with 10-40 pennzoil for 800 miles, then switched to Mobile 1 syn. 93 k miles still running great uses about 1/2 quart per 4000 hard farm miles pulling trailers etc. It has a mild cam with hydro flat tappets or lifters as some call them.

Corvettes and most cars for 10 years or more use roller lifters total different animal that do not need high levels of zinc due to far less friction.

High spring pressures dirty or really cheap oil causes most cam wear. This wonderfull stuff called ethanol wears out cylinders and rings because it thins the oil at the top of the cyl.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Dave on 08/08/12 at 11:37:27

I emailed Lucas about their Zinc Plus Break in Oil. I was not concerned about the ZDDP.....but did get concerned about the other additives that are claimed to speed up the break in process......and I wondered if any of them were the friction modifiers that we are supposed to avoid with our wet clutches.

The recommendation from Lucas was not to use this product in a wet clutch application.

So......I need to find a ZDDP additive that is safe for wet clutches.

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Oldfeller on 08/08/12 at 11:46:11

Ain't Lucas funny? Their motorcycle oil isn't much to write home about and they won't recommend their own break in booster for motorcycle wet clutches.

You may have to order it online, but the RedLine break in ZDDP booster uses a synthetic base oil and I have used a couple of bottles of it in my Savage over the years, both breaking in and simple bumping -- no clutch slippage yet. No issues of any sort, really, and I do wang my thang a bit more so than many do.

Dave, we are trying to go back up where the air is thin again in September. You interested?

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/1678.JPG

Title: Re: Break In Oil
Post by Dave on 08/08/12 at 13:42:39

OF: I got a reply from Redline:

"Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, the Engine Oil Break-In Additive is safe for use with wet clutches, doesn’t contain a friction modifier. For your engine with a typical oil an ounce per quart would be sufficient."

I will have to mail order it. I checked at Advance Auto and they don't stock it....even though they are a Redline dealer.

I would be interested in coming to ride again.......if the weather is good. I am not a foul weather rider.