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Message started by BelizeanBanman on 07/26/12 at 15:55:49

Title: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/26/12 at 15:55:49

Hi guys,

More trouble with my '86.

Just got and installed my jets from Lancer. I tried the recommended sizes, didn't work too well. I went one higher, still no good. Tried one even higher, and then the bike wouldn't start.

Since then I've:
1. Put back in stock pilot jet, almost stock main
2. Checked spark
3. It appears to be getting gas - also sprayed brake parts cleaner into both the airbox and engine.

I used 2 washers instead of the white spacer.

The bike is cranking but not starting.

What else should I check?

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/26/12 at 16:11:25

The guy who works at the vehicle mechanic shop where I have the bike parked now says he believes it is the timing chain.

I really doubt this, because the bike has less than 12k miles, and I just did the verslavy mod about 2-3k miles ago. Any thoughts on this?

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by Cavi Mike on 07/26/12 at 16:12:20

Make sure you didn't use non-flammable brake cleaner. I'm not sure you can even buy flammable brake cleaner anymore.

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/26/12 at 16:21:04

Oh I assure you it was quiteflammable :P We were playing around with it and a torch before we tried it on the bike..

I feel that I'm sure that it is getting gas because I put my hand on the carb covering the hole coming from the airbox and it was wet with gas after.

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/12 at 18:25:00

If youve been cranking on it unsuccessfully , it mite just be time to charge the battery back up..

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/26/12 at 21:35:27

Did that already man.. I am feeling really hopeless at this point. It's gotta be a small problem. Do you think timing might be the culprit? It did start once, but it ran very poorly, which I thought was because of gas not timing. Is there any other way to check it than to open the whole side cover? There was no timing chain ticking before I replaced the jets, I really don't think it's that

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by RanDaMan on 07/27/12 at 05:54:21

When i changed my jets i went up one size in pilot and main. my bike wouldnt start after that either. i was told the change in the pilot jet is what affected the starting. so i turned my air/fuel mixture screw out another turn and pulled my choke and it finally started up. i dont know if its under the same circumstances as yours but worth a try. ( if you havent already)

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/27/12 at 06:55:42

Shoot some starter fluid at it, once its running its a lot easier to see which way it needs to go,

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by Spamy on 07/27/12 at 07:06:46

Does it try to start at all, such as backfires or any type of thing like that or just keep turning over with no response?

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/27/12 at 07:13:47

Now thatsa gooda questione' righta therea,,

& ya gotta keep that battery Hot,, it'll turn over , sounding like its spinning just as fast as it needs to to crank ,, but the shparkinmaker ( See? I speak German And Italian)wont be sparkin,. If you wanna check spark, leave the plug in ii, put the wire on another plug. That way the battery is fighting compression.

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/27/12 at 09:52:07

@RanDaMan - It definitely is worth a try.

@Spamy - It has backfired a couple of times. Only like twice though. The rest of the time it's just turning over. What does this mean?

@JoG - Leave the plug in, and attach the wire to a plug outside of the bike? And I need to charge the battery. Gotcha.

Thanks everyone, I'll head to the bike after I eat breakfast.

The timing is completely out of question correct?

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by Spamy on 07/27/12 at 13:00:16

If its backfiring, firing out the intake of the carburetor or indicating like its perhaps even kicking the motor backwards at all. Then I would suspect the timing is off.

When you changed the plunger did you ziptie the chain or anything, or could have the chain slipped and jumped a tooth?

If it is backfiring then you also know that you are getting a measure of spark at least and perhaps fuel. So you can usually rule those out, unless you are only getting a reaction when you are shooting starter fluid in there.

Some of the simple things after eliminating timing, fuel supply, and spark would be to change out the plug and ensure your gas isnt old or contaminated.

Aside from that if may need to be looked at internally.

Id also be tempted to use a battery that I know would give it a good strong crank, such as a car battery or something. Just to make sure its getting a good starting speed and a fighting chance.

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/27/12 at 14:24:31

Welp. Looks like timing was the problem. I think a tooth was jumped because the tensioner was out a good 10mm and the chain was touching and had rubbed some on the metal.

What I did now was removed the tensioner and put it back in. Now it's back in almost flush. Why does it do that. Is it now ready to drive or should I mess with the timing first.

Also, how does one zip tie the chain? Does verslavy's thread have pictures of that?

Thanks for your time Spamy

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by Spamy on 07/27/12 at 14:40:58

Right behind the tensioner I had just used a small ziptie and tied the two chains together to keep it from getting slop in it while I messed with the tensioner.

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/28/12 at 01:26:35

I closed her back up, still doesn't start. It does sound like it turns over faster now. Gonna pull the valve cover tomorrow and see if I can figure out the cam/timing chain adjusting procedure. I think I saw a pretty detailed (with pictures) thread somewhere on how to do that.

Thanks everyone. Any advice is appreciated.

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by sparkie on 07/28/12 at 02:04:01

have a look at the decompression unit if that is not operating properly then it wont lower the compression enough so it wont start.I had this on my bike,when i rebuilt her i didn't want the original automatic decompression unit so i converted her to a manual one and sometime even now she wont start until i push on the lever.As your sitting on the bike its under the tank on the left hand side if you didn`t know.Hope this helps and good luck.
Cheers Sparkie

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 07/28/12 at 11:22:09

I just checked. I have 50psi compression. From the little research I did I gathered 175 is about normal. So, apparently I have a huge problem.

I'm in the process of opening the valve cover to check the timing. All of a sudden timing doesn't sound so bad eh? Now I'm hoping it's not the piston.

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by BelizeanBanman on 08/01/12 at 22:35:16

!!! I"m running again! ;D ;D

Took it to a guy from my hometown. Turns out to be a real silly problem. I've noticed for a while that my air filter was dirty. Last time I checked was a few months ago (big mistake) When I looked at it then, I noticed the wire mesh was torn at some places. At the time it didn't occur to me that anything could happen. Anyways-long story short- A part of the mesh had lodged itself by one of the valves, keep it open (or closed I forgot). Took that out, and walla!

Thanks for the input guys. Can always count on ya'll for support in whatever way :)

Cheers,
Roger

Title: Re: Starting trouble
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/02/12 at 06:22:33

I do believe thats a FIRST! I dont think Ive ever heard of anyone, anywhere, losing a hunk of air cleaner & ingesting it into the intake valves,,

I guess doin the Heimlich maneuver on an engine is a little tough,

Glad youre back in business,,& Im sure you learned a little something about air cleaner maintenance,