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Message started by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 05:08:09

Title: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 05:08:09

So i put a cone filter on and installed a dyna muffler ( has a slight leak at the moment) and i also put on the raptor petcock. and now the bike is having a really tough time starting up. with or with out the choke after several tries almost draining the battery it fired up i believe with the choke pulled out. but it used to start right up with no issues. while it was running a little white-ish/light grey smoke was coming out of the muffler. does this mean im running way too lean or too rich? :-? or is that possibly not the starting issue?

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Dave on 07/25/12 at 05:36:33

Have you done anything to the carb? Changed the jetting yet?

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 05:41:19

Dave, yes I stepped up one step from stock on both pilot and main jet. i havent had a chance to test them out though due to the temporary leak in my exhaust i got it to fire up once since ive done the mods the other day it drained the battery past the point of being able to start. :-[

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Dave on 07/25/12 at 06:07:47

Put a small length of hose on the bottom of the carb, and then open the drain screw and see if fuel flows out in a steady stream...drain out enough that you can confirm the flow is constant......10 - 16 OZ. This will confirm that fuel is reaching the carb float bowl.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Routy on 07/25/12 at 06:11:23

First, you need a good battery. If the battery voltage is dropping below 10.5 volts while cranking, it is getting a very weak spark, and would rather not start. If it cranks (spins) good, it should start good.
Second, mine always starts better w/ no.....to little throttle.
Did you adjust the air screw after the pilot change ? If not, this could be the reason for hard start. I myself would not have changed the pilot unless it was really needed.
Nothing else you did should have changed how it starts, or is making it run rich. The smoke could have been in the change in muffler.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 06:12:20

Alright good idea Dave! :) Ill try it out today when i get home and see if the fuel flow is a problem. with the raptor petcock after i drain the float bowl in the carb how do fill it back up just turn the throttle a couple of times before I try and start it? or is there another method?

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 06:16:12

Routy, it did seem to crank over almost every time after a few failed attemps the fire up though it started clicking when i hit the ignition. i tried using a little throttle using a lot of throttle using a choke and not usuing a choke. before i did any work on it i never needed the choke to start her up.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Routy on 07/25/12 at 06:21:14

54676842674B6768060 wrote:

You are not draining the bowl, you're just checking flow. The bowl stays full as long as the valve is on.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Routy on 07/25/12 at 06:26:40

Quote:tried using a little throttle using a lot of throttle using a choke and not usuing a choke. before i did any work on it i never needed the choke to start her up
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changing the pilot is what changed your starting. If you get it started, and adjust air/fuel for a good idle, it will probably start just fine,.....w/ good battery power.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 06:46:29

49465C475B5D4E4C444A5D2F0 wrote:

[quote author=54676842674B6768060 link=1343218090/0#5 date=1343221940]Alright good idea Dave! :) Ill try it out today when i get home and see if the fuel flow is a problem. with the raptor petcock after i drain the float bowl in the carb how do fill it back up just turn the throttle a couple of times before I try and start it? or is there another method?

You are not draining the bowl, you're just checking flow. The bowl stays full as long as the valve is on.
[/quote]

when i took the carb off to rejet i did have to drain the bowl though. im just asking for future refrence when i take the carb off again. and i hope what you say is true about the pilot jet changing the starting issues its not too hard to tune the air/fuel mixture screw. i just need it to start up and run to warm it up.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Routy on 07/25/12 at 06:46:39

07343B113418343B550 wrote:

Just so you have a better understanding of carbs,.......
unlike automotive carbs, MC carbs do not have an "accelerator pump", therefore twisting the throttle w/ engine not running does absolutely nothing as far as adding fuel to the engine.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 06:50:58

OH alright so with my bike off and petcock "ON" the fuel flows straight into the float bowl untill the floats trip out and shut off fuel? the stock petcock had a prime the raptor doesnt thats why i thought twisting the throttle would open up to allow gas to fill the float bowl with the absence of the prime setting.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by rfw2003 on 07/25/12 at 06:56:49

if nothing else try a little starting fluid or WD-40 to get it to fire off and use throttle to keep it running till it warms up so you can adjust the idle/air mix to keep it running.

R.F.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Dave on 07/25/12 at 06:59:37

695A557F5A765A553B0 wrote:

Nope - there is no connection of the throttle and petcock and neither one affects the other, and as Routy said there is no accelerator pump that could spray fuel like there is in automotive carbs. Twisting the throttle when the engine is running does nothing but move a butterfly back and forth with no affect on anything. The choke only works when the throttle butterfly is closed - so twisting the throttle while trying to start the bike does essentially bypass the choke function while you have the thottle twisted open.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 07:05:03

Learning a lot right now! Thanks everyone for youre help! and R.F how would i get it started in that manner? not sure im following you on that? :-?

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Routy on 07/25/12 at 07:10:26

695A557F5A765A553B0 wrote:

You got it !
"Prime" was the same as "on" on the Raptor.
"Run" was the same as "off" on the Raptor (w/ engine not running)
Throttle does nothing (w/ eng not running)

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 07:19:05

2E213B203C3A292B232D3A480 wrote:

You got it !
"Prime" was the same as "on" on the Raptor.
"Run" was the same as "off" on the Raptor (w/ engine not running)
Throttle does nothing (w/ eng not running)

Good to know! Ill be sure to run a series of tests later today for fuel flow and what not and if i can get her to start up ill adjust the fuel mixture screw in hopes of easier starting! if anyone can think of anything else that might help im all ears! Ill post up tomorrow if problems are solved.

Can anyone explain R.F's method of sarting with wd-40 or starting fluid?

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by Cavi Mike on 07/25/12 at 07:26:27

I've never heard of using WD-40 as starting fluid before, I assume the propellant is what the engine is burning(probably propane) but anyways, you just spray some into the throat of the carb and try starting it.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 07:32:29

5674637C587C7E70150 wrote:

Should this be done simultaniously? as in while spraying into the carb hit the ignition or spray some in the carb then hit the ignition? will it affect anything to have it running with no air filter?

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by rfw2003 on 07/25/12 at 09:22:23

both WD-40 and Starting fluid are more volatile then gas, so they will both help start a stubborn engine. Just shoot a few shots into the filter and then start it. once it fires off just use throttle to keep it running till you get it warm and can adjust the idle air mix to get it to the point it stays running.

R.F.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/25/12 at 09:25:47

Alright i gotcha now! Ill give it a try when i get home today and let you know if it does the trick! Thanks.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by 87 savage on 07/25/12 at 16:14:31

Randaman, start from scratch. Put it back the way is was when it started and ran good. Then do 1 mod at a time and see how it runs. You changed so many things all at once that there is no way to tell what the issue is. And while your taking things back apart, charge your battery.

Title: Re: Struggling to start!
Post by RanDaMan on 07/26/12 at 05:21:35

So yesterday i went home charged up the battery put some more gas in the tank and opened the valve on the petcock to make sure that fuel was flowing into the float bowl. It did flow but not at a very fast rate it was a steady constant trickle. I shut the valve and pulled the choke and the bike fired up! :D i adjusted the air/fuel screw (2 turns out total) i took it down the street and it feels like a completely different machine now.

My Next question is while i was riding up the road all i could here was a faint whisteling noise from my air filter sucking in air. is this normal or does that mean its not sealed properly? :-?