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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Taxes /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1343046251 Message started by WebsterMark on 07/23/12 at 05:24:11 |
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Title: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/12 at 05:24:11 I heard about this report being released, but did actually see it. Now some analysis is starting to come out. The below from the WSJ today is interesting to say the least... If fairness in paying taxes means the amount you pay is based on the amount you make, then the only group in America paying at least a "fair share" is the top 20%—people who make more than $74,000. For everyone else, the tax code is a bargain. The top 1% of income earners pay an average federal tax rate of 28.9%. (See the nearby table.) The average federal tax rate on the top 20% is 23.2%. The 20% of taxpayers earning between $50,100 and $73,999 pay an average 15.1%, and so on down the line. The CBO report includes payroll as well as income taxes paid. There's also another way of looking at fairness, and that's the tax burden. Here, consider the top 20% of income earners (over $74,000). They make 50% of the nation's income but pay nearly 70% of all federal taxes. The remaining 30% of the tax burden is borne by 80% of the taxpayers, those who make less than $74,000. In short, this group's share of taxes paid, 30%, is lower than the share of income they earn, 50%. Again, I think this shows yet again, we suffer a spending problem, not a revenue (tax) problem. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/23/12 at 05:53:39 Web when you were young and growing up the rich played a high % tax than they do now.Thats way you had a good country to grow up in.Don't you want the young people to have the same advantage you had. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/12 at 06:16:00 Bill; when I was young and growing up, the federal budget was tiny in comparison to what it is now.... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/23/12 at 06:27:16 5C6E69787F6E79466A79600B0 wrote:
how does that make a % difference |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/12 at 07:08:45 The misconception is that taxes apply to the budget, they dont, income taxes go to the federal reserve as payment on the interest on our "debt" created thru fraud. You guys are never gonna understand the world using the lenses youve been looking at it thru,REad or Listen to G Edward Griffin, FREE, online, interviews, |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/23/12 at 09:00:31 Some people listened to GWB when he said Iraq had weapons of mast destruction and believed that too. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/23/12 at 09:07:44 Bill,, thats Mass destruction,, got nothing to do with blowin the mast off a sailboat. & All the people have ever had made easily available to them is what the powers that be WANTED them to have. Amazing, is it not, that we spend TWELVE Years in their schools, but they never explain how the fed works,,as important as $$$ is to our lives & as much as the stated Goal of sending us to school is to prepare us to be able to go out & succeed, they never teach us how our economy actually works? So, listen to G Edward Griffin. He isnt a politician, he is a good man, working to teach people what is happening & how its being done. Your income taxes go to the fed, not to satisfy budgetary needs, but to pay the interest on the loan we take out when we borrow money from the bank,,Our Nation, a Sovereign nation, instead of operating its own economy ( Which Libya & Iraq were doing, quite successfully I mite add), has given away its ability to create its own Money & instead opted to Borrow $$$ from a bank & [pay interest on what it is designed to have for FREE,, |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/23/12 at 12:21:05 "Again, I think this shows yet again, we suffer a spending problem, not a revenue (tax) problem." Webster Uh huh, and how do you purpose we pay for these trillion dollar wars that your buddy shrub started to feed the coffers of those 1%'er war profiteers? You know, those phony wars that you the king of the chicken hawk "never served" cowards cheer on. The Shrub borrowed the money for his killing sprees from China...How'd that work out for Ya?? |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/23/12 at 17:05:15 Uh huh, and how do you purpose we pay for these trillion dollar wars that your buddy shrub started to feed Since the money spent on 10 years of war was about equal to one year of HopeyChange’s stimulus, it should be relatively easy, right?... Are you out there asking how we pay for the stimulus?... king of the chicken hawk "never served" cowards cheer on. Oh give it a rest… you served… yea I get it. What, do you run around with a sign on that says I served, I served…. You did your duty; now shut the hell up about it for crying out loud. I know a lot of people who served and you practically have to beat that fact out of them. That's your lead in. Kinda tells me something... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/23/12 at 19:55:06 Chickenhawk warmongers like you richly deserve attacks... The economic & financial burden being levied on Americans as more innocent lives continue to become sacrificial lambs all in the name of endless, trumped-up wars so the war-profiteering corporatists can make millions is disgraceful. So how about you stop avoiding the question I asked. If you want all these cuts in spending, and more tax cuts for the uber rich, how do you propose paying off our war debts and continue financing endless wars? |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Midnightrider on 07/23/12 at 21:40:20 There's over 2 Trillion of the Federal Budget unacounted for by the military. Think that $600 Pentagon ashtray is an urban myth? |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/12 at 00:10:40 7F4D4A5B5C4D5A65495A43280 wrote:
Since the money spent on 10 years of war was about equal to one year of HopeyChange’s stimulus, it should be relatively easy, right?... Are you out there asking how we pay for the stimulus?... This inference that "Since I see your guy as a screwup, you have no room to criticize my guy" game is a HUGE part of how we got here,, They BOTH suck,, |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/24/12 at 05:22:47 So how about you stop avoiding the question I asked. If you want all these cuts in spending, and more tax cuts for the uber rich, how do you propose paying off our war debts and continue financing endless wars? I've asked you dozens of questions you've dodged crybaby... Endless wars is a stupid comment first off. Secondly, short term deficits for wars are commonly accepted. Defense is a constitutional duty. Whether you agree with the war or not, Congress voted for it. Economic stimulus (giving money to unions) is however, not a constitutional duty. But all that doesn’t matter. Hopey’s stimulus and other spending is skyrocketing the deficit. I know you and a few others love to tout the idea that Iraq brought this fiscal mess on, but that’s simply just not true. Of course you’ll go on saying it, but that doesn’t make it true. (except in your mind). |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/24/12 at 05:29:46 Congress was lied about WMD,Why don't other countries have wars like we and Hitler did.Anyway all other countries have the same right to have WMD that we do. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/24/12 at 05:30:32 There's over 2 Trillion of the Federal Budget unacounted for by the military. Think that $600 Pentagon ashtray is an urban myth? nope, i'm sure it's not. Read the article in Bloomberg yesterday by Neil Barofsky. The Tarp money was wasted and pissed away by the bucket full. Don’t get caught up in some kind of class warfare and turn this into a Wall Street/Main Street thing. The point is government bureaucrats wasted millions and millions in mismanagement and fraud. It always happens. Drop and apple and it falls to the ground. Give government a big job to do involving lots of money and it fails. Gravity and the law of government screw up are both solid and dependable. Now, just wait until everyone’s healthcare is dependent upon this… |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/24/12 at 05:33:53 Are you out there asking how we pay for the stimulus?... This inference that "Since I see your guy as a screwup, you have no room to criticize my guy" game is a HUGE part of how we got here,, no JOG; that's not what I'm doing. I'm pointing out to say our problem was started by the expense of endless wars is nonsense. Simply not true. I have no idea how to fix Hopey's screw up. It will take a long time of no spending increases and low taxes, less regulation to grow the economy. We're f'*ked for a while. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/24/12 at 05:36:58 Hopey can fix up his screw up the same way GWB fixed up is screw up. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Midnightrider on 07/24/12 at 06:16:06 645651404756417E524158330 wrote:
I'd a lot rather my money go to health care than useless wars and spending by the military! |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/12 at 09:59:31 350700111607102F031009620 wrote:
Bush DID screw up, That $$$ spent went from me & you, into the pockets of the worlds wealthiest.& that wasnt the start, for gooniss sakes! We have all seen the debt go from what should have been easily managed & simply paid off back, well,, I was in the 4th or 5th when I was looking at it,, so,, 64? 65? But, instead of the goobs & the people looking at a smal, but growing debt & saying "Whoa here,, we cant keep doing this. We have to live within our means",, The very people who told us all we have to go to school & learn things & we have to take History so we will know what mistakes had been made in the past that hurt other nations & not follow in their footsteps DID exactly the STupidest things they could do,,These problems have been made worse by each successive administration,, &, its designed to be how it is,, |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/24/12 at 10:29:10 Since Obama took other theres still soldiers getting wounded,The ones that have lost and arm and leg get $250000 a year pension plus the VA still pays the medical expenses GWB should have known this but what did he really know about anything. It was all about making money,But not for us. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/24/12 at 21:30:24 REPORT: Debt Limit Fight Cost Government $1.3 Billion In 2011 <snip> Republican opposition to raising the debt ceiling increased the government’s borrowing costs by $1.3 billion in fiscal year 2011, and costs will continue to rise in the future, a report from the Government Accountability Office found. The U.S. Treasury was forced to take varying actions to avoid hitting the debt limit before Congress raised it in August, forcing borrowing costs higher on multiple Treasury securities, the report found. And because many of those securities “will remain outstanding for years to come,” the borrowing costs will continue to rise in the near future. The debt limit fight also caused the first-ever downgrade of America’s credit rating, which Standard & Poor’s blamed on Republican unwillingness to raise taxes as part of a debt reduction deal. <end of snip> ...and they are gearing up to do it again....reduce the deficit indeed! Cantor's temper tantrum cost us how much? This guy needs to be drawn and quartered or at least put in a corner to sulk the next time he starts stamping his feet and throwing a fit. We can't afford the Tea Party. They didn't cut spending or the deficit. Just put on a dog and pony show for their demented supporters. So we lost our credit rating and $1.3 billion dollars. Run on that Republicans. Don't forget to lie on the floor and cry....or just LIE which is your usual behavior. Oh wait...fortunately, it is written in the Book of Cheney that "Deficits don't matter." |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/12 at 12:28:02 I resent this reference to the Tea Party. Im tired of people associating me with these jackasses who simply took the NAME & jumped in line to get the support of the People who want things done differently from the DIMS & The BUBS do. You people spit on the one group who would have a positive impact, because you fail to grasp the concepts. Do NOT let neocons running around waving a flag that says Tea Party on it make you think thats who we are, You want to change the economy? Stop the wars, BURN the trade agreements that CUT our Throats. Do what Iceland did, tell the bankers to SHOVE IT,, ditch the Fed. Retake our Sovereignty, Why should a Nation have to get its $$$ from a bank the same as you when you want to buy a car? A Nation is a Sovereign entity,, & can create its OWN Money,,interest free, but in 1913 , just 3 or 4 criminals voted to eliminate that for us.. & to those who would say Well,, if we did fight to eliminate the Fed, we would just have to do it again in a few years & use that LAMEASSED excuse for a reason to not take action, I would ask you if you really believed that Freedom, once attained, would always be? If you know that oppressive forces always work to take control, then you know that the fight for freedom is ongoing. We either press forward to retain it, or we lose it. Am I alone in the ability to see how much freedom has been lost? The Fed is a Huge Part of it., |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/25/12 at 19:40:57 "Defense is a constitutional duty. Whether you agree with the war or not, Congress voted for it." Webster "Give government a big job to do involving lots of money and it fails." Webster Well, you said it not me. War is a BIG government job to do involving lots of money and it fails. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/25/12 at 20:38:32 "The money spent on 10 years of war was about equal to one year of HopeyChange’s stimulus."JOG NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stimulus price tag: $2.8 trillion Since Obama took office three years ago, Congress has poured a total of $2.8 trillion into the economy in an effort to spur hiring, get people spending again and prop up industries struggling to stay afloat. ******************************************************************************* Congressional Budget Office (CBO) In the past ten years of war the defence department has spent 6 trillion 83.7 billion. ...Fact is, you can play with these numbers till the cows come home, but the bottom line is only a FRACTION of this money should have been spent on either of these boondoggles. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Midnightrider on 07/25/12 at 20:49:18 There's no need for us ever to go to war with any dictator ever again, now that we have the technolgy to fly a Drone up their a$$. If we send troops in on the ground we're there because there's something Wall St or Haliburton wants. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/25/12 at 21:03:38 +1000 |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/25/12 at 23:47:38 July 25 th statement from President Obama on the Senate vote: With the Senate’s vote, the House Republicans are now the only people left in Washington holding hostage the middle-class tax cuts for 98% of Americans and nearly every small business owner. The last thing a typical middle class family can afford is a $2,200 tax hike at the beginning of next year. It’s time for House Republicans to drop their demand for another $1 trillion giveaway to the wealthiest Americans and give our families and small businesses the financial security and certainty that they need. Our economy isn’t built from the top-down, it’s built from a strong and growing middle class, and that’s who we should be fighting for. Bohner would readily go along with tax cuts for the 98% but his hands are tied by the tea party. ...just say'n |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/12 at 01:37:46 Hers what I am sayin,, get off the Tea Party label & call them Neo Cons, Unless you can show ME where Ron Paul votes against tax cuts, Because the Tea Party is ME,people who support the things RP supports., & the people YOU call the tea party are just opportunistic parasites who TOOK the Name & did NOT act the way people who are Tea Party types act., |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 03:48:04 JOG,.. unfortunately, the Tea Party is what it is... and it ain't what you wish it was any more... But they are now holding the right wing hostage... and doing their best to obstruct. Bush created 10 trillion debt, Obama added another 5... Each side can argue which side did worse, but in the mean time, we pay interest on that debt, every year until it gets paid... It is Bush that gave giant tax cuts for the rich, allowing people like Romney to pay half the percentage of a secretary. This was going to boost jobs and the economy. It didn't happen. It created the worst economy in near a century, and the debt exploded. Two simultaneous trillion dollar wars and tax cuts at the same time was a prescription for catastrophe... Time to pay the piper... Just like in your own home,... you can't max out the credit cards for a decade and keep refinancing... Now, the middle class has virtually disappeared, while the poor have become poorer, and the rich have done great. Income disparity has increased 400%... Trickle down,.. was a myth... America got pissed on... The rich have to pay... because the rest no longer can... You can't get blood from a stone. Romney can tighten his belt and just have a three car elevator, his country needs the other one. ;)... Rep's may argue the unfairness of the rich paying the lions share of taxes,... but, it's the poor and working class that do the lions share of dying in the wars we make. Blood and treasure... that's the cost of war. Blood's been paid,.. time for treasure... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 05:04:55 Bush created 10 trillion debt, Obama added another 5... Each side can argue which side did worse, but in the mean time, we pay interest on that debt, every year until it gets paid... It is Bush that gave giant tax cuts for the rich, allowing people like Romney to pay half the percentage of a secretary. This was going to boost jobs and the economy. It didn't happen. It created the worst economy in near a century, and the debt exploded. Two simultaneous trillion dollar wars and tax cuts at the same time was a prescription for catastrophe... Time to pay the piper... There is more BS in those few sentences than all the matadors in the history of the world have ever stepped in…. What planet do you people come from?!.... Just like in your own home,... you can't max out the credit cards for a decade and keep refinancing... Hopey-dopey has now only max out our credit cards, he’s ordered more and maxing them out… The guy spends and spends and spends… The rich have to pay... because the rest no longer can... Screw that….. stop spending. Trickle down,.. was a myth... America got pissed on... The utter stupidity of that statement cannot be over emphasized. Rep's may argue the unfairness of the rich paying the lions share of taxes,... but, it's the poor and working class that do the lions share of dying in the wars we make. Sounded better when George Bailey said it to the Board… Don’t knock the The Tea Party. They are playing their role by forcing Republicans who are too ingrained in politics and corruption to return to what it is that separates conservatives from liberals which is being the adult in the relationship. We need conservatives and liberals to be who they are, not some wishy-washy blending of the two. Liberals can play, dream, create (mostly they just whine lately…) but we need that in our society the same way you need diversity in a family. Ultimately, someone’s gotta stand up and make decisions to keep this big playground we live on afloat and that’s what conservatives do. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 05:19:33 Debt was 5.727 trillion on Bush’s first day in office and 10.626 trillion on last day. That’s 4.899 trillion in 8 years. National Debt as of this morning was 15.9 trillion for an increase of 5.362 trillion in less than 4 years. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/26/12 at 05:21:49 Raise everyones taxes 10% and cut everyones welfare 10% it wouldn't be long till we recovered.And everyone could live just fine. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Drifter on 07/26/12 at 05:37:12 Canter, the defacto leader of the tea party, acts far more like a spoiled child than a man! Very good chance he will be gone in Nov. Mark, i know it hurts so bad you cant wrap your head around it but bush, cheney and the other proxy wars...neo cons are the main reason we are in this fix. If Mitt wins it wil be bush act two....who will we attack next for israel along with more loopholes and tax cuts for the rich, the end of social security planned parrent hood etc etc.....who wins with this guy??? The 1% The war machine, Israel...... I really hope the mindless masses are not that stupid again!! |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/26/12 at 06:35:36 5D6B707F6D7C6B190 wrote:
+1 |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 08:27:38 neo cons are the main reason we are in this fix That’s just plain stupidity. We are in this fix cause Hopey-dopey turned a bump in the road into a disaster and is still digging the hole deeper. He doesn’t know when to stop. who will we attack next for israel whoever we need to… along with more loopholes and tax cuts for the rich so they pay only their fair share. , the end of social security planned parrent hood God, I hope so…. .who wins with this guy??? The 1% The war machine, Israel......... some guy named Drifter. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/26/12 at 08:31:17 Obama disaster is getting us out of the wars,As Web calls a bump in the road.That was over a 10 year bump. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/12 at 08:32:09 Ohhh Its the dems fault, ohhhh its the pubs fault,, well,, this one made it worse Faster,, WHO CARES!!?? Until someone stops making it worse, its gonna,, what? Anyone? Bueller? No? Anyone? Its gonna get worse,, & off a clif at 50 MPH versus 250 MPH doesnt matter, its still off a cliff.. Agree with him or not, the ONLY hope we have for changing direction is Ron Paul.,. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 08:52:38 744641505746516E425148230 wrote:
In this one thing,.. you are correct. I meant to say the debt reached 10T under Bush, and Obama has added another 5T... Interest payment on this debt,.. is now 1.2 billion per day. Nearly half a trillion per year, by itself. This accounts for nearly 2T of increased debt under Obama's 1st term... Obama's budget also has to pay the continuing cost of two wars as they are wound down... Cutting spending will do nothing to reduce the debt, it will at best slow the increase... The debt grows 1.2B per day on it's own... As a pre-emptive retort to Webster's next volley of insult,.. Kiss my a$$ you stupid tw@t... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 09:28:09 Kiss my a$$ you stupid tw@t is that @ a a, i or what?...! |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Gyrobob on 07/26/12 at 09:36:11 Here's what we need to do. This would actually solve our debt and taxes problem. 1. Balanced budget amendment. Make the feds spend no more than they take in, just like most state and local governments, AND,.. like you and me. 2. Use our own energy resources. Expedite greatly the effort to use our own natgas and oil, while upping the development efforts on wind, solar, geo, etc. We do have the capability (not the will, unfortunately) to become energy independent within a decade or so. -- Becoming energy independent would free us from the ragheads. It is total idiocy to give billions of dollars monthly to those who want to kill us. -- Once they are denied our money, the terrorist threat would decrease significantly. -- If we had no dependence on foreign oil, we could bring 90% of the military home. --- This would save thousands of American lives annually. --- Hundreds of $billions would be saved annually (trillions by some estimates). -- Developing all our own energy resources would lower the cost of energy globally. --- We have more oil inside our boundaries than the Saudis, but we'd never use it all because it would take a century to use it up. --- Within the next decade or two we will have developed the other energy sources to such an extent we won't be using much oil anymore. -- Having all our resources available would turn us into a vendor rather than a buyer. --- We'd get $billions annually from energy sales. --- We'd create millions of jobs here. 3. Fair Tax -- Within months, $trillions would come back from overseas. -- This influx of funds would create millions of jobs here -- We'd save hundreds of $billions yearly just from cutting the IRS to 5% of its current size. -- The massive monies we are spending on the illegal immigration problem would greatly reduce, since the illegals would no longer have a huge advantage over citizens, economically speaking. The illegals would have to pay tax on everything THEY buy too. I'm not optimistic about any of this happening, though. The current grossly f***ed up system we have now is too firmly entrenched. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/26/12 at 09:48:30 Fair tax is good for the rich. Young couple with 3 or 4 kids would be paying the taxes,Shoe clothes and etc. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 09:58:54 Energy independence is a myth put forth by the Repubic's... at least as far as oil goes... Oil is sold on a global market to the highest bidder... Oil produced in the US is on that same market... Exxon and BP and whoever ain't gonna' sell it to US for less, no matter where they drill it... Unless you want to create a "socialised" oil market?...?... We'll call it "Obamaoil"?... ;D... Webby,... it's a, a... :o... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 11:05:21 Good start Gyro. I think you're right, what's going to change? Lot of reasons why things aren’t likely to change that much or quickly. Starting with the fair tax. Here’s Bill’s comment. Fair tax is good for the rich. Young couple with 3 or 4 kids would be paying the taxes,Shoe clothes and etc. Right now, the top 5% pays the vast, vast majority of taxes but Bill here can’t comprehend that so he resorts to the tried and true class warfare. How can you pull off major tax reform when there are too many Bills, Star and Sews in the country…. I agree with Sew to a point about energy independence. Markets are global and there's not much of a home country discount so to speak. However, I think the way to look at it is to drive towards energy dominance. Screw that green energy nonsense, its BS anyway. Let the others piss away money left and right chasing that rabbit. We’ll stick with oil, coal, nuclear, natural gas until we figure out cold fusion or something like that. It will happen sooner or later. In the mean time, drill baby drill. One interesting unintended consequence of reducing oil from the Mideast. Most of those countries are third world countries sitting on first world oil supplies. What happens when the only thing they’ve got (besides hating Israel) is taken from them?... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 11:27:50 063433222534231C30233A510 wrote:
They also make like 90% of the money... .. and while the rich have gotten richer,.. the poor and middle class have had their standard of living go down and down.... So, while their incomes have tripled and everyone else's went down,.. they are paying less taxes... This extra money they got, was supposed to create jobs and higher pay for workers... though, nobody's seen it yet... Trickle, trickle, trickle... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/26/12 at 13:21:04 "In the mean time, drill baby drill." Webbie ...snort...idiot America is inhabited by an over-population of people whose apathetic ignorance of all things political is apalling, and Webbie tops the list. Don't you read others posts here Webbie? "At least as far as oil goes... Oil is sold on a global market to the highest bidder... Oil produced in the US is on that same market...Exxon and BP and whoever ain't gonna' sell it to US for less, no matter where they drill it"...Sero Yes, for example Alaskan pipeline oil goes to the port of Valdese where it's shipper to Japan (the highest bidder in the pacific basin for Alaskan oil.) The oil companies don't giva a rat's ass where US oil winds up as long as they make the biggest profit possible. The "Tea Party" has been a scam from day one. Today's Tea Party is funded by super-rich robber barons like the Koch Brothers, run by dirty-trick political operatives, and promoted by fake "news" agencies like Faux "news." If JOG's version of the TP ever existed, it's long gone. It's been hijacked by the lunatic fringe and in no way represents the will of the people, but 'uses' the people. They do not care one whit about reducing the deficit. The only reductions in spending they want are in social programs like SS and Medicare. The very programs that most elderly Americans depend on for their subsistence. Even their key statements, ("We're taxed enough already!") is false, taxes are lower than they were before the 1920's. Meanwhile our crumbling infrastructure, the wires, the pipes, the roads, the bridges, are ignored while the corporatists make money hand over fist and laugh all the way to the bank laughing at fools like the Webbie, while his brain washed (brain dead) mind processes surreal right-wing talking points into hardened - and laughably inaccurate - opinions. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 13:38:07 They also make like 90% of the money... and here is the crux of the matter; jealousy. on the 7 deadly sin list, what number is that? |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 13:40:02 Star; you should just stop talking. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 13:45:15 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
Jealousy,.. uhh no... envy's close enough though... Greed's in there too... and gluttony,... and pride... sins of the rich... I think there's more envy among the rich as well... I never brag about how much I paid for something, that's unique to the rich... I brag at what a bargain I got... ... and speaking of God,.. he's not with you at all on this one... “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:23-24 |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 14:22:29 I’m glad you are agreeing to use the Bible as a source for morality in these discussions. The verse about the rich is equally true of all kinds of categories. It is, afterall, a narrow gate. Besides, you are mischaracterizing my ‘defense’ of the rich. My point related to all this is simple: The ‘rich’ guy didn’t take any money from you that you didn’t voluntary give to him. The rich guy pays far more in taxes that you. The rich guy gives far more in charity that you. You want to be ‘rich’, work for it. Otherwise, stop trying to take more and more of his money to pay for more and more of your stuff. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/26/12 at 14:24:57 Work for your money like GWB did then. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 15:17:46 I think he did, didn't he? I don't think Daddy Bush was super duper rich was he? I honestly don't know. Doesn't matter anyway. If the father wants to give money to his kids, what's wrong with that? Worked for the Kennedy's didn't it? Work for your money like GWB did then. and.... 1) I do work for my money and 2) I'm content with what I make. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by bill67 on 07/26/12 at 15:40:01 The CIA took care of the Kennedys and friend Marilyn Monroe. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Drifter on 07/26/12 at 15:46:46 Mark,. would you shoot your neighbor or the kid down the street if israel said he was a liberal dem or wanted healthcare for his sick mother or some godd darn israel blowhard on talk radio said his momma was a sluter and deserved to die because she takes birth control....... Have any of you religious people ever had a snake crawl down from an apple tree and talk to you? :o How can anyone even think let alone say ending social security for the millions of OLD people that survive and i do mean survive on this small amount of money is a good thing, while the rich flucks like romney want another tax cut for a bigger house or yacht.....so fluck granny she is a worthless sluter anyway.....that 600 a month is draggin us down...what total BS ..........when did religion get taken over by greed where money is more important that human lives..... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/26/12 at 16:13:53 The 'shrub' Earned his money... ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 16:20:21 Remember Ann Richards famous line?... "Poor George, he can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth" ... and it looks like Romney's trying to steal his mantle... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 16:34:08 Mark,. would you shoot your neighbor or the kid down the street if israel said he was a liberal dem or wanted healthcare for his sick mother or some godd darn israel blowhard on talk radio said his momma was a sluter and deserved to die because she takes birth control....... Nope; that's a pretty stupid comment/question or whatever that was supposed to be. Have any of you religious people ever had a snake crawl down from an apple tree and talk to you? I don't know every religious person and since the vast majority of the world claims to be religious in some sense, I guess I better start asking around. Besides, I never heard of a snake crawling down from an apple tree, have you? How can anyone even think let alone say ending social security for the millions of OLD people that survive and i do mean survive on this small amount of money is a good thing, Don't want to end SS for current recepients, just for young workers. Do you want the young to end up poor and enslaved because they were dumb enough to believe some the social security lie? I don't, but I guess I'm not as mean and selfish as you. while the rich flucks like romney want another tax cut for a bigger house or yacht is Romney a yachter? I thought he was a jet skier. when did religion get taken over by greed where money is more important that human lives..... I'm guessing somewhere within the first 5 chapters of Genesis. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 16:36:59 Remember Ann Richards famous line?... "Poor George, he can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth" Yea, I remember her. She lost to that guy with the silver foot in his mouth..... but, as quotes go, nothing compares to 'you sir, are no jack kennedy'. Which was true, Qualye didn't screw little interms, ruin their lives and make them give bj's to his buddies in the pool while he watch. So no, I guess that doesn't make him a Jack kennedy. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/26/12 at 16:42:54 Speaking of religion....just what religion are you Webbie?...Cause it sure ain't Christianity. You and the Jesus of Christianity have nothing in common. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 16:56:46 Webster's standard rebuttal... "Oh yeah,.. well yer' stupid!"... ;D ;D ;D.... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by WebsterMark on 07/26/12 at 17:10:56 Webster's standard rebuttal... "Oh yeah,.. well yer' stupid!"... I only say that when it's true. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 18:10:30 Oh yeah?... I know you are, but what am I?... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Gyrobob on 07/26/12 at 19:05:53 serow said; "Oil is sold on a global market to the highest bidder... Oil produced in the US is on that same market..." yes yes yes!!!!! You had a breakthrough in understanding!. God I feel good when I can get someone to realize something like this. If we start using all our own resources, we'll dump all that oil on the global market and the price per barrel will be maybe $40 in several years. The ragheads will have most of their funding eeeee-friggin-liminated!!! Yay!! We'll be energy independent, and the military can come home. (mostly) It'll hit the oil companies here hard, but somehow I suspect they will find a way to survive. I've heard more than one expert mention that a lot of the price of oil has nothing to do with fundamentals,... it's just a form of hysteria. That said, if our entire government and all the oil companies appear to the rest of the world like we have started a concerted long-term effort to become energy independent by using all our own oil, the cost of a barrel will spike initially because everyone will want to bank some oil at current prices, but soon it'll plummet, because looking ahead all they will see is lower and lower prices for oil as more and more becomes available. Bringing in to play all our own energy resources (which are MASSIVE) is the single greatest thing we can to do increase jobs, boost the economy, bring the troops home, hack away at the debt, and combat terrorism. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/26/12 at 19:13:34 5668637E737E73110 wrote:
Sorry to disappoint, but I've known this for decades... SO,.. your great idea isn't "energy independence",.. it's global market crash... Except,.. the companies you rely on to overproduce, are the companies that will loose billions as gas prices drop dramatically... Good luck talking them into that one... "Sure, I'll shoot myself in the foot!"... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/12 at 20:47:11 Ive worked in the oilfields. Ive been on the rigs drilling the wells, I worked for The Western Company, as a mechanic ( Western = Halliburton/same as Burger King = Whataburger) & Ive plugged & abandoned wells. YOu wanna see Odessa come to a halt? If Odessa slides to a stop, so does oilfield activity all across the nation. When a barrel of oil drops, so does oilfield activity. IDK what the minimum price for oil can be & still see exploration & development. Lindsey Williams says there is more oil in Alaska than the middle east,,or maybe Saudi Arabia? Energy Non Crisis is the book,, Heck,, dont worry about it anyway,, We are so screwed now, it doesnt really matter, Obamney, Rombama, doesnt matter which one we get, spending, wars, ridiculous laws that will hurt our economy more & more,, the direction will not change & if someone has info that would allow me to see things are getting better, I wish theyd show it to me,, cuz Im pretty convinced we are about 3/4 to 1/2 of a turn in the toilet bowl from hearing that last Gurgle as the turd disappears from view. Interesting graph,, http://headwaterseconomics.org/wphw/wp-content/uploads/RigCounts.pdf Id stick it in here,, but I cant |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Gyrobob on 07/27/12 at 08:28:14 Is this it? http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Misc/RigCounts01-1.jpg |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Gyrobob on 07/27/12 at 08:34:42 697F68756D78756E1A0 wrote:
Sorry to disappoint, but I've known this for decades... SO,.. your great idea isn't "energy independence",.. it's global market crash... Except,.. the companies you rely on to overproduce, are the companies that will loose billions as gas prices drop dramatically... Good luck talking them into that one... "Sure, I'll shoot myself in the foot!"... :-?...[/quote] I'm not disappointed at all. I'm gratified. You are wrong, though, about the U.S. needing energy independence. We desperately need to be free of being held hostage by the ragheads. We desperately need the economic boost. Yes, it will cause some changes in the world situations of buying and selling oil, but there is no way we can do it fast enough to cause an outright crash. If we were ever able to develop the national will to do something like this, it would take a decade or two for the transition. Not a crashworthy timeframe. Even if it did cause a crash, so what? We'd have a temporary set of downturns here and there. We'd recover. It wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as what the RIB has been doing to us for the past 3.5 years. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/27/12 at 10:40:52 Like I said,.. Socialized oil... Obamaoil... We can get energy independence with Natural gas, Hydro-electric, solar, wind,... but not petroleum... Petroleum companies are global entities... they don't work for us, they do their own bidding for their own ends... To get off the Arab oil tit,.. we have to transition off oil... Electric, or air powered cars... The future of oil will be in product manufacturing, not as a fuel source... We will need it for plastics and rubber products, but not to fuel our engines.... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/27/12 at 15:23:48 After WWII we made a deal with foreign nations. We wouldnt produce our oil fields fully & be independent, they would buy our T-Bills, we would buy their oil. Part of the agreement that ended the war gave Us the Preferred Currency( I cant think of the Official word now) so that all oil would be bought & sold in dollars, even between nations that didnt use them in any other place. Imagine the boost that gave us! |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by LostArtist on 07/29/12 at 11:26:02 what about the refineries? when was the last one of those made? the 70s? you can drill baby drill all you want but where you gonna put it all until it get through the 3 crusty refineries we have???? there's a reason they haven't built any new refineries in a long long time, yes the EPA is one of them, but also, the less refinery capability they have the less usable product they put to market so they can simply regulate the price that way |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Starlifter on 07/29/12 at 13:57:08 The oil industry is a racket. The government should nationalize the industry or regulate the sh1t out of it to stop this price fixing and consumer gouging they love to stick us with. |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/29/12 at 14:19:39 They definitely shouldn't allow speculators... This is like licensed gambling that forces consumers to pay for the chips... Gas would still be .99 a gallon without the speculators... |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/12 at 23:24:39 03203C3B0E3D3B263C3B4F0 wrote:
The Big Dogs even bought up the little guys & closed them down, But then, I remember when antifreeze was Cheap,, sadly, one of the big manufacturers Burned Down,, & Ohh GEEE,, they didnt rebuild,, & the price went sky high,, Rowboat, There are more Paper barrels of oil traded every day than real barrels, |
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Title: Re: Taxes Post by Serowbot on 07/29/12 at 23:57:32 4D5254534E4978487840525E15270 wrote:
You betcha' there is... ;)... ... and we're payin' for all of 'em... :-?... |
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