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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> bike smoking black /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1342917845 Message started by dozerman on 07/21/12 at 17:44:05 |
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Title: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/21/12 at 17:44:05 I have a 1998 savage which ran really good until recently. I have performed no modifications or changed anything recently but when I stop at a red light it loads up and wants to die and smokes black when I rev it to clean it out. Also it won't idle and dies . Starts right back up but with difficulty. Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/21/12 at 18:06:50 My first thot is the slide isnt dropping freely. When you let off the gas, does it idle down likie it should or slowly drop RPM? Dozerman owes an answer to this question. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Serowbot on 07/21/12 at 18:18:00 Test your Petcock,.. don't just turn it to Prime.. (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1) black is fuel... it's petcock, or carb... check the pet first, it's more likely, and easier to check... ;)... Rational path, easy to follow and do -- eliminates the entire petcock system as a potential source of the issues. Dozerman never did it. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/21/12 at 18:32:10 Petcock does not flow unless I suck on vacuum hose. What could be prob in carb? Could the float be stuck? |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Oldfeller on 07/21/12 at 18:47:00 Dozerman, your engine vac suction available at speed is a lot less than you can do with your mouth. Vac petcocks are notorious for screwing with your head by alternately dumping gas down the vac tube and starving your bike at speed, read the post Serowbot sent you to COMPLETELY and do the test he specified. Then tell us what happens. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by bill67 on 07/21/12 at 19:01:02 Try some Sea Foam in the gas. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/21/12 at 19:16:35 I don't think bike is starving ,I think too much fuel is being delivered. ( black smoke and choking on idle. At speed bike runs ok hmmmm ..... do you think that after reading that test from the Tech Section that Serowbot is just winging it in the wind? Or did you bother to read it? At this point you are refusing to do the things we suggest that you do and you are chomping at the bit to take your carburetor apart. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Charon on 07/21/12 at 19:18:23 Don't waste your time or money with Seafoam. There is nothing in it that is useful, and the sum of the do-nothing ingredients results in a do-nothing product. I just recently had a similar problem, though with a scooter and not a Savage. The idle jet came unscrewed from inside the carburetor, and dropped into the float bowl. Result was that the engine would run at about half throttle, but not rev high enough to engage the clutch. It also blew black smoke out the exhaust. It also has a vacuum petcock, which had nothing whatever to do with the problem. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Serowbot on 07/21/12 at 19:19:51 What Charon said,.. or your slide is stuck... something's open that shouldn't be... It's open the carb time... |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Oldfeller on 07/21/12 at 19:27:57 "Got black smoke and choking on idle. At speed bike runs ok" What happens when the petcock diaphragm splits and dribbles gas down the vac line into the carb vac port? I think Serowbot's test kills 3 birds with one stone, which is why we get the newbies to do that first and report the results before telling them to do the next thing. Yep, by all means don't do the simple test as specified that quickly tells you what's what -- instead run off quick-like and go tear on into that carburetor. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/21/12 at 19:48:14 Too late! I removed carb and took float bowl off and everything is spotless. I removed floats to check needle valve and it is mint and spotless with no obstructions in the seat. Took top off and checked for cracks or tears in diaphragm and it too is in mint shape and moved freely.any suggestions? |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/21/12 at 19:51:10 Forgot to mention.I replaced the air filter and checked for obstructions. Also replaced Spark plug........no difference. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/21/12 at 20:05:27 & you slipped a long skinny screwdriver under the slide & lifted & watched it fall? |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/21/12 at 21:05:42 Yes sir everything seemed smooth |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by verslagen1 on 07/21/12 at 22:13:31 dozer, we need to know all the mod's you've done to your bike. when's the last time you changed the air filter? and miles |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Oldfeller on 07/22/12 at 01:05:36 He is getting too many instructional paths from too many helpers. Also, he doesn't realize one diaphragm from the other with too many people talking to him at the same time. We need to remove trouble causes by entire segments, applying the tests that give us the most information for the least effort. Mystery "carb problems" seem to fall into two camps, petcock related and carburetor issues cased by age/wear/incorrect disassembly/reassembly. Play the odds people, you know that both things can fail, but you can remove one entire trouble segment (the one that happens to fail the most) with a simple Serowbot's test. Instead, you have sent him off into a romp into internal carburetor land without shrinking the area of investigation any at all. Indeed, the investigation is now wide open with no functional areas removed at all. The man is sitting at GO minus a carb teardown. Dozerman is now actually adding to his potential issues with every subsystem he takes apart .... He is already deep into his carb now and he still has excess fuel flow at lower speeds. Actually, he may have it all the time, but it is possibly masked at higher speeds by the bike's larger fuel consumption at full speed. Air filter needs to be checked, sure, but frankly but a blocked filter would bog and choke off at high speeds and his issues are all at low speed. Plus he says he's checked the air filter already -- and he says he's done no mods at all -- bike is stock. Verslagen, might want to read the entire thread over again slowly from the beginning since new information is popping up in old posts. Might want to read his last 25 posts to catch a feel for what technical level Dozerman has shown so far. Dozerman, listen to Verslagen, and tell him what you have taken apart recently. The rest of you guys might want take a break for a minute and let Verslagen handle it for a while (myself included). |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Charon on 07/22/12 at 07:04:10 I don't know which mod is screwing with threads, answering them internally, and for all I know changing them entirely. I think it needs to stop. Hmmmm .... he writes in red ink in #9 font, gee that does sound like Oldfeller. ::) Obviously he could go in and change your words, he's a moderator and to him the whole list is an open book. But he bothers to put in in a different case size and color so you know its him. So why does he bother to put it in a different color and font right inside the post itself? Maybe it is to answer the question or offer moderation/guidance (ie do his job). He thinks it is better to do it where it occurs rather than 4-5 posts down stream, that way it is clear exactly what it pertains to. It also saves time and bandwidth. You want me to put a little OF in front of them so you know its me, or do you understand it better now? BTW, your point is not very valid (and I think you already know this) because any edited post shows the person who did the last edit and the date/timestamp of the last edit, so if someone was nefariously sneaking in and changing your posts it would be obvious to everybody. ;D OF |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by bill67 on 07/22/12 at 07:06:23 6B40495A4746280 wrote:
Its Oldfellow he changes my all the time. OF Bill, in your case moderation is needed a lot of times. Your words stay unchanged, though. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Charon on 07/22/12 at 07:10:59 That's who I think it is, too, but I was trying to get him to own up to it himself. As far as I am concerned it makes the entire Forum untrustworthy. OF Gee, that's a shame -- the whole Forum is untrustworthy because a moderator actually moderated something. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/12 at 07:16:07 Huhh? |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Routy on 07/22/12 at 07:19:14 66797F7865625363536B79753E0C0 wrote:
Did you just get up ? ;D |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/22/12 at 09:25:08 So I sent with my wife for a ride and she says she hears something click by her left leg before bike acts up and stalls. The only thing I see by her left leg is the Cdi module. Does this make any sense ??? |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/12 at 10:07:13 Well,, its the pacemaker,, it quits & the heart stops pumping,, maybe its loose? Id pull the cover, & have a good look at the connector, even if its seated all the way,, |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Routy on 07/22/12 at 10:23:46 How does that make black smoke ? Burnt wires ? :o |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/22/12 at 11:11:23 Went for a ride myself with the petcock vacuum hose plugged and it is way better. So gonna go for a longer ride in town where there's more stop and go traffic to test it out.( fingers crossed ) |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/12 at 11:16:55 If you leave the ig on say overnite, there's a possibility that the current draw from the coil will burn out a chip in the cdi. hope it's not, cdi's are like hen's teeth. there's also a decomp controller that might explain a 'click' and crap out. when activated it sends a signal to the cdi to retard the timing. but also look and see if the decomp is activated. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/12 at 12:36:29 An open exhaust valve would make it run REal Bad,, |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Charon on 07/22/12 at 13:10:03 I realize moderators have the ability to modify, delete, and move posts, and I accept that as a necessary part of Forum management. My comments were roused by the "How hot is too hot" thread, in which threads were modified (yes, in red small font) but which did NOT have the "last modified" tag line. As long as there is no way threads can be modified without alerting readers, I have no problems. That thread, however, demonstrates otherwise. I also understand the rationale for answering a question in the post in which it was posed. But this is the only Forum in which I have seen that happen, and as a result I, for one, probably wouldn't look in my own post for a reply. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Oldfeller on 07/22/12 at 13:28:41 Would those have been my own posts, by any chance? I generally put my punch lines in #9 red and have for years and years before I became a moderator. ================ Now, back to Dozerman and his problems. Dozerman, you have now done the Serowbot test and you have verified you have a bad vac petcock. Vac petcocks can do quite a few bad things when they act up -- some very different sorts of bad things. In that Tech we mentioned Test your Petcock,.. don't just turn it to Prime.. (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1) there are listed a bunch of things that bad vac petcocks can do. The list looks like this: List of Things That Tell You It May Be Raptor Time 1) Your bike stumbles or acts like it is running out of gas when you are going over 55 mph and then when you get to the pump you can't put in 2 full gallons of gasoline. 2) Your bike dies on you and you play bloody hell getting it to start again (you can't get any gas from your sick vac petcock no matter what you do to try to get it to start). 3) When you get a reserve situation and roll the vac petcock toggle to Reserve, the bike continues to stumble for nearly a minute before slowly picking up some power and speed as you struggle to get to a gas station. 4) You get all sorts of abrupt indications your carburetor is dirty or your jetting suddenly went off (and you haven't changed your exhaust system or air filter system). Especially applies if SeaFoam, etc has NO EFFECT on your "carburetor issues" whatsoever when you try it. 5) You smell gasoline either coming from your vac suction line, your airbox or from your oil fill port when you unscrew it (so you can sniff your oil in the sump for the scent of gasoline) because you suspect you have one of the above going on and "it may be Raptor Time". You are complaining of things that are on this list. Rather than chasing mysterious electrical issues first off (when you simply have some other known symptoms of a bad vac sucker) why don't you get rid of the vac sucker and see if you problems don't decrease greatly, both number of problems and severity of problems. Put a Raptor on it. This will remove a whole host of problem symptoms. Once the vac sucker is gone, the murky water is much much lower, and it is a lot easier to see the causes of the remaining issues (if any). This has been our experience with lots of other folks who have been where you are now. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/22/12 at 17:26:30 Ok went for a 70 mile ride with petcock on pri and vac hose plugged and my wife says bike has never ran so good!!! So now to find a raptor......... |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by wernermeister on 07/22/12 at 17:44:59 595247584F505C533D0 wrote:
Hmmm.... after all of this hoopla, finally "fixed", and no thanks to the fellas? Interesting. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by Serowbot on 07/22/12 at 18:18:08 2C27322D3A252926480 wrote:
;)... Glad you got it... It's very often hard to believe that a petcock can do so much harm, and cause so much chaos... ... but, when they go bad, they surely do... ;D... |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 07/22/12 at 20:23:40 My bad! Thanks everyone!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/12 at 20:46:23 Pet thingy or not, after all that hassle, Id cut its head OFF. |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by dozerman on 08/12/12 at 19:49:24 Bought a raptor for $48 at Yamaha dealership. Installed it in 20 mins and works perfect. Thanks again! :D |
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Title: Re: bike smoking black Post by rfw2003 on 08/12/12 at 20:08:13 6771667B63767B60140 wrote:
;)... Glad you got it... It's very often hard to believe that a petcock can do so much harm, and cause so much chaos... ... but, when they go bad, they surely do... ;D...[/quote] That's why the first thing I bought for my Savage was the Raptor petcock. I did alot of reading here before I even decided on buying mine from the P.O. |
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