SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1342190982

Message started by hooth4 on 07/13/12 at 07:49:42

Title: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by hooth4 on 07/13/12 at 07:49:42

Hello Forum Members. I'm writing to you all in despair. I bought a 1998 savage last fall and think I was sold a lemon. It had the well known oil leak from the well plug which I replaced and seemed to have fixed. But riding around this spring/summer I noticed the bike was getting HOT. Burn your leg hairs hot. I put an infrared temp gun on it after riding 20 min (in the city...stoplights) in about 80F weather and the cylinder was 330F. This is way too hot. I've brought it in to the shop twice and the only change I've noticed is I'm about $400 poorer. I'm pretty handy with a wrench and I'm willing to work on it but I live in NYC and don't have a garage so it needs to be work I can do in a day and put back together. Anyone have some ideas of what I can check (spark plug....etc). Better yet anyone live in the area a willing to take a look at it? I'd pay you for you time and would of course help out :) I just don't trust the mechanics in this city, they won't give you the time of day.

Some other symptoms which may or may not be related. Exhaust pipe is VERY blue/purple right at the cylinder and seems to be getting worse. It backfires a bit...used to be worse but they cleaned the carb and adjusted the mixture at the shop and seems to have helped a little.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Dave

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/13/12 at 08:01:45

What are the jets in it? Is it a stock muffler? How does it run when cold? Must have the choke pulled? Even in summer?

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by spacepirates on 07/13/12 at 08:09:44

Exhaust pipe blueing is due to too-lean jetting. Though, any contaminants (oil/dirt) on a pipe will cause it to blue over time.

I'm going to put myself in the line of fire here: what oil do you have in it? Not trying to take sides or attack people's oil, but a lot of us like Rotella T6 synthetic. Other oils will work well too, just seems like Rotella T6 is kind of a go-to standard 'round these parts. known good oil.

Our bikes are pretty darn simple. If it is overheating there isn't much that can be causing it; either too lean jetting or too much friction in the cylinder (i.e. not enough oil).

You want some <30 minute tasks to give us a better idea? Pull the spark plug and tell us the color. Ideally you want a chocolate brown to light tan. Bone white is lean and black is rich. The other task is smell the oil. If the oil smells burnt, replace it. Hell, if it has been more than a few thousand miles, change the oil anyways (and filter!). check if the filter has any metal bits in it.

hm... other thoughts are that you shouldn't let an air-cooled bike idle without air flow for more than a few minutes. let's say 8 minutes. During those 8 minutes, your idle should be around 1000rpm. less, and not enough oil gets to the cam and you'll get the joy of opening up the head and replacing that sucker.

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by hooth4 on 07/13/12 at 08:27:06

The shop replaced my oil a month ago and I haven't really ridden it much since due to the overheat issue. I don't know what they put in. I'll swap the oil out. I'll put in a good synthetic.

Everything looks stock to me. The previously mentioned oil leak cause a lot of corrosion on the bottom side of the exhaust pipe but no holes, just rust. Runs great cold but I usually put the choke when starting as it usually doesn't turn over right away....I sometimes I need to put the petccock in prime to start.

Only idle time is at stoplights...about 2 min max.

I didn't understand about the jets

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by thumperclone on 07/13/12 at 10:08:29

main jet is the last 1/4 turn of the throttle to wot
prime to start? may have a vacume leak and not getting enuf fuel

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by Spamy on 07/13/12 at 10:22:59

Im not so sure that is a crazy hot temperature for an air cooled motor. Motors get hot. Pipes melt boots and stuff. Being this is air cooled its prone to getting hot even more.

Ill try to check my brothers engine and see what temps he is getting (mines in pieces right now).

But im thinking 330 deg F isnt to far out of the ballpark of normal. In water cooled street bikes its normal for the water alone to be hitting 220 deg. Some of the electric fans dont even come on till 210 or so. T

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by SuperSavage on 07/13/12 at 11:22:50

All stock savages header pipes blue. Mine was blue/gold. You need to install a Dyna muffler mod and maybe re-jet. That combined with some Rotella should do the trick.

I went with a Harley Dyna muffler and rejetted and no more blue. (I removed what I could, no new blue though)

I live in Suffolk county on LI and I echo the traffic light concerns.

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by spacepirates on 07/13/12 at 11:49:19

7572726975291D0 wrote:

I didn't understand about the jets

I don't know how much you do/don't know about jets, so here is a primer (my apologies if it is too basic for you):

Jets are little brass inserts in your carb of different sizes that allow more or less fuel to flow with the air into your cylinder. On the stock carb there are three jets: pilot (idle circuit), needle jet (mid range), and main jet (wide open throttle). Keep in mind these three circuits aren't entirely independent of each other. In addition, the stock carbs have an air mixture screw that affects the idle circuit, allowing you to fine tune the air/fuel mixture at low throttle ranges.

Anyways, if your idle jet is too small, and doesn't allow enough fuel to flow with the air, your engine will run lean (more air than fuel than is ideal) and lean means hot.

If you say the shop adjusted/cleaned your carb, you might want to look into tuning the carb yourself. Serowbot has some great tutorials on how to do this, so I won't get into it (look in the Tech section!). But if you are feeling a little DIY, take a screwdriver (if the air mixture screw is exposed (ask if it is not!)) and turn it in/out to get the best idle, and that will get you to a better idle mixture point.

Idle circuit aside, other circuits can be lean causing overheating, too. That is less common because you'd have to be moving to be using those circuits so your engine would be getting *some* cooling, but I digress...

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by Borracho on 07/14/12 at 10:59:42

Check the radiator fluid ;)

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by Charon on 07/14/12 at 11:04:59

"All stock savages header pipes blue." Quoted from Supersavage, above. Not true. My '07 is bone stock, with over 11000 miles on it, including one very slow parade on a very hot day. There is no bluing on its exhaust pipe, and only the very faintest hint of gold.

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by bill67 on 07/14/12 at 11:26:05

My 06 has a stock drilled muffler in the interior richer jets and no bluing or hint of gold. I have had a lot of motorcycles over 40 year none ever blued but a 1980 Moto Guzzi which wasn't double wall pipes which called for 98 octane gas which of course I couldn't get.

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by Serowbot on 07/14/12 at 12:10:58

I remember blue,... that's what came after gold, and before black...
My pipe is a rainbow... ... and my jetting is good... but I ride in Az,.. and go from 2k to 9k elevation, with 40+ degree temp changes... a lot...
(a guy in a car at a traffic light asked me, once...
"Is that a custom color exhaust pipe?"... Cool!)...
;D ;D ;D...

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by WD on 07/14/12 at 12:39:12

Just for giggles, take off the oil filter cover and see if the wrench monkeys put the filter in backwards. Hole goes IN, plate goes out. Unfortunately pretty common. So is the morons forgetting to make sure the o-ring is on the filter nipple. Either way, you'll get a miniscule amount of oil flow, but nowhere near what the engine needs.

Not enough oil flow and that cylinder is going to get hot.

Pull your sparkplug and smell the end. If it smells like a coal fired pizza oven, your engine is running hot because it is starving for oil. Trust me, I've got a 1000 pound boat anchor that used to be an engine in my antique truck right now (external oil line popped).

Otherwise it's a fuel flow issue.

I used mine in Mardis Gras traffic in a tiny town on the Gulf Coast (Long Beach MS) when the bike was new and stone stock, header pipe turned purple inside of 5 minutes. These bikes are super lean at sea level, they run HOT. BBQ grill hot.

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by Paraquat on 07/14/12 at 13:42:53

4C5A4D50485D504B3F0 wrote:

http://www.zeleperformance.com/media/02_news/20080930-zele-fz-muffler2-02.jpg

--Steve

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by 87 savage on 07/14/12 at 18:46:29

2438253D203522333C3F3E35500 wrote:

main jet is the last 1/4 turn of the throttle to wot
prime to start? may have a vacume leak and not getting enuf fuel

Yup, and a vacuum leak will make you run lean and hot. I would do the Raptor petcock swap first then try it and see how it starts and runs.

Title: Re: Overheat - 330F on the cylinder!
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 07/15/12 at 15:57:04

7E555C4F52533D0 wrote:

Agreed!!! My 2001 had a near perfect exhaust pipe. But the stock muffler had some tints of gold and brown.

The bikes are tuned very lean from the factory to meet the EPA reg. Unfortunately, a lean bike runs hot and will cause issues that will eventually cause more pollution then if it was tuned better.

When I rejetted mine, it cooled down significantly. And had increased power. But.. only marginally better MPG at first. MPG went down after a while..... because I started to use the power increase too much (darn that fun factor!!!)

NOTE: my 1986 Sportster was the same way, real hot because it was super lean. Rejetted and it cooled down and got tons more power. Better MPG ... then the fun factor struck again......darn......