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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Turbo?
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Message started by Ryanlilly on 07/06/12 at 00:04:52

Title: Turbo?
Post by Ryanlilly on 07/06/12 at 00:04:52

I'm thinking of building a RYCA, but I want a bit more power. Anyone ever boost one of these engines? I'm new here and did a search but no luck?

Thanks guys!

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Cavi Mike on 07/06/12 at 01:13:57

Turbocharging with a carburetor is the main obstacle, not the engine. Turbos on modern bikes are common because they're EFI.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by rfw2003 on 07/06/12 at 01:46:23

I've seen turbo's done on motorcycles with the CV style carbs, but I don't know exactly how it was done, or what mods had to be done to the carb. Tuning would be an issue I would think, because turbo's constantly vary the boost depending on the engine load. You need some sort of boost reference to change the overall mixture as the boost changes. Superchargers don't have as much of a problem, because the boost is more of a constant, plus most superchargers are draw through instead of blow through.

For the money plus also for the way this bike is designed, you would be far better off, to do an overbore with a higher compression piston, and then some head work as well. You will get plenty of power that way and not have to deal with the expense and issues of trying to adapt a turbo to a carb'd application. Not to mention the fuel consumption will be less then that of a forced inducted application, which is good with the tiny tank on the Savage.

R.F.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Paraquat on 07/06/12 at 06:24:57

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1257906560
Post #8 for a picture

Just pressurize both sides of the carb.

--Steve

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Ryanlilly on 07/06/12 at 08:27:15

Tuning a carbed turbo isn't that difficult actually, I prefer it to efi. I built a carbed turbo snowmobile and fairly simple.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Ryanlilly on 07/06/12 at 08:29:01

One more pic.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Ryanlilly on 07/06/12 at 12:09:17

30243570727271420 wrote:

Any idea how much HP a big bore can produce, is there someone that makes a kit?

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by rfw2003 on 07/06/12 at 12:36:27

775C444B494C49495C250 wrote:

Any idea how much HP a big bore can produce, is there someone that makes a kit?

TBH, I don't exactly know. Lancer is the man to talk to about that. He also sells some high compression overbore kits, as well as some other performance mods for our little savage. Check out the Market and you will see his posting in the sticky area at the top.

I have seen references in one of the posts somewhere here that with Lancers kit, cam and a Mukuni VM carb you can see somewhere around 50hp to the ground. Can't remember the post I saw that in right now though.

R.F.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/06/12 at 16:40:18

6348505F5D585D5D48310 wrote:

One more pic.

As much as I despise cold & snow & all the pain that goes with it,, I think I could tolerate it for a while, IF I got to drive THAT!!!

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by 360k+ on 07/07/12 at 10:25:23

IDK how practical a turbo would be for one cylinder, but it could probably be done using some type of airbox. The reason is, the carb doesn't really have a manifold or anywhere to store the volume of air needed for the boost pressure. The carb and rubber ducts are just too small to store a reasonable volume of air, and I don't think the turbo would handle the pulsed nature of one cylinder very well without an airbox to act as a kind of capacitor.

Also, keep in mind that turbos are coupled via exhaust manifold pressure, which is also very pulsy on a one cylinder. Whereas, superchargers are mechanically coupled to the crankshaft.

Frankly, I kinda wonder if a tuned ram air tube on the carb might not offer a good performance boost without nearly the problems? The youngsters here won't know about the old Mopar cross ram air 413's and 426's back in the 60's, but the old timers probably remember. I raced against these (drag) back then and lemme tell ya... they were quite formidable!

http://1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj534/gary95329/Misc/Cross.jpg

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by teabowl13 on 07/07/12 at 12:35:04

6A6C7F7434383E3F340D0 wrote:

I raced against these (drag) back then and lemme tell ya... they were quite formidable!

WOW! I'll bet they were... that's pretty cool looking.

I know as far as the Savage goes, if it were me and my money, I'd skip trying to run any kind of Turbo and follow in Lancer's footsteps.

If you get through the Overbored High-compression piston, hot cam, and performance carb stages and still feel like you need more Ummph, (Especially after dropping all of the extra weight that comes off when you do the RYCA conversion..) then maybe what you'll really need is an altogether different motorcycle?? ::)

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by 360k+ on 07/07/12 at 15:48:36

I was kinda thinking that same thing... hopping up a Savage is kinda like drinking a lot of beer to get drunk; i.e., if your goal is to get drunk, vodka will get you there quicker! A stock BMW 650 G puts out 48hp @ 6500 and the 650 F (twin) puts out 71hp.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Ryanlilly on 07/08/12 at 11:36:39

Good point about the single cylinder, I didn't think about the pluse. That could be a big factor...

I had thought about another motorcycle all together. I just really like the look of the RYCA, it's different. I was just looking for something besides your run of the mill bike. Unfortunately I a HP junkie and was trying to find a way to crank up the little single cylinder as much as possible.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by rfw2003 on 07/08/12 at 11:54:07

There is also a few other things to consider on the Savages motor. The oiling system is a low pressure low flow so it's not really suited to feed a turbo unless you figured out some way to plumb in an aux pump to feed it. 2. It's an air cooled engine, which puts extreme demands on the oil as it is already, add to that a turbo, and your cooking the oil very quickly, and also most likely going to overheat the engine do to the temps you are now getting your oil to by adding the turbo to it.

Just a few more thoughts for ya on this.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by teabowl13 on 07/08/12 at 12:00:31

If you check out LANCER's posts; here and in the tech section, and/or just message him, he can give you a pretty good idea of what you can get out of one of these bikes. From what I've seen here, he has squeezed more Uumph out of his Savage than almost anyone else around...

Still not sure it would be worth all of the work.
Even my stock 1974 CB450 was rated around 45hp as I recall... The Savage was just never designed as a Horsepower monster. They were really built and tuned for torque.

Maybe if you used a motor for a DR650? Or just start with a whole one and build your bike from there??

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NR5fOd-eRv4/TWLD3l86dwI/AAAAAAAAAVA/n9AD3D1krKE/s1600/dr650-street-tracker-2.jpg

Here's the link to the rest of it...
http://caferacerspecial.blogspot.com/2011/02/suzuki-dr650-street-tracker.html

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Drifter on 07/08/12 at 13:29:32

360+, good points but has that BMW been around since 86 and what do they cost??? I bet equal HP from a savage is possible for alot less money.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Ryanlilly on 07/08/12 at 17:28:04

36223376747477440 wrote:

I had though of this, I would be using a 53 series Aerocharger. Aerochargers don't use oil from the engine, they are a self contained unit.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by 360k+ on 07/08/12 at 17:38:10

0E38232C3E2F384A0 wrote:

360+, good points but has that BMW been around since 86 and what do they cost??? I bet equal HP from a savage is possible for alot less money.

Yep, I wasn't suggesting jumping from Savage to Beemer, because then you'd go from riding an apple to riding an orange - two entirely different personalities. I was just saying that many modern stock motors start out with more hp than the nearly 30 year old Savage might even be capable of.

Not to say that with enough work and mods you couldn't achieve something spectacular...

http://www.v-8motorcycle.com/4.html

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by ralfyguy on 07/08/12 at 17:53:18

Impressive looking V8 bikes in that link, but not my glass of beer just going straight. I wonder how one of these monsters would do against a Savage in the twisties...

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Paraquat on 07/08/12 at 21:07:10

There was a dude who came to the Miracle Ride with a Boss Hog V8 bike.
Took 3 people to help him park it.

--Steve

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by bikertrash on 07/08/12 at 21:15:37

If you want to go real fast, don't start out with a bike that only produces 30+ HP . . .

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Ryanlilly on 07/09/12 at 01:00:13

202B292730363023312A420 wrote:

If you want to go real fast, don't start out with a bike that only produces 30+ HP . . .

Pretty sure I just covered why, but thanks....

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Spamy on 07/09/12 at 10:32:31

Dumping 3600 bucks on a 600 dollar bike is a bit crazy to me. Your time and money would be much better spent on putting a different motor in there.

If you want to stick with a single cylinder motor go with a high compression dirt bike motor. They have come a long way and are getting about as much power out of a single cylinder that can be done currently. You will be getting about 55 hp and 36 lbs of torque. Its lightweight and reliable.

Otherwise put a turbo sticker on it and call it done.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by Spamy on 07/09/12 at 10:35:00

Of course most now are water cooled and thats going to change the look of the bike.

Air cooled = limited power in most cases.

Title: Re: Turbo?
Post by teabowl13 on 07/09/12 at 13:56:06

For Example:

Aprilia sxv550:
313lbs; 61.6hp bone stock....

http://cybervehicle.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/aprilia_sxv_550_2.jpg