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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> found out my ticking and power loss issure.... :'(
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Message started by Hotrodchriz on 07/01/12 at 20:27:23

Title: found out my ticking and power loss issure.... :'(
Post by Hotrodchriz on 07/01/12 at 20:27:23

As i had stated earlier, i had bought the bike dirt cheap due to power loss and ticking issue, and after tearing into it i found my problem...
>:( :-[ :'( >:( :'(

looks like this project is going to be put on hold for a while... sigh...

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/hotrodchriz/2012-07-01_21-30-20_912.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/hotrodchriz/2012-07-01_21-30-30_570.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/hotrodchriz/2012-07-01_21-30-52_211.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/hotrodchriz/2012-07-01_21-31-11_4.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/hotrodchriz/2012-07-01_21-31-22_234.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/hotrodchriz/2012-07-01_21-31-27_440.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z359/hotrodchriz/2012-07-01_21-35-03_396.jpg

So now on top of needing cam chain, guide and tensioner, I now also need a camshaft, and possibly complete head cover if i cant find rocker arms...

I sucks that this quick build turned into a long term project just like everything else....

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by verslagen1 on 07/01/12 at 20:31:55

send the cam to lancer and get it welded and reground.
I think they also weld the rockers, but you might see if oldfeller will weld it for you.

looks like the ID 10 T that put the head cover on used way too much rtv and closed off the oil feeds.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Hotrodchriz on 07/01/12 at 20:37:18

584B5C5D424F494B401F2E0 wrote:

waiting on a jet set from lancer already.

Yeah previous "mechanic" was probably smoking crack...

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by DangRider on 07/02/12 at 00:04:49

Wow! Kind of surprised it was even running...

From a learning perspective, thanks for posting the pics. (I'm a new savage owner)

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Serowbot on 07/02/12 at 01:28:31

Jeepers!... :-?...
Lesson to the uninitiated,... more is not always better...
Death by RTV overdose...

That's plum nasty,..
Sorry to see,.. but, you know where you stand now... Nuttin' to do but forge ahead...

For what it's worth,..
I love my bike....
You get past this, and you'll love her too...
An amazing number of people have moved on from this bike to bigger and better, and found that they really miss what they had...

PS.. might as well go for a Stage one cam?... I don't feel the need, but if I had to replace anyway... I probably would..

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/12 at 02:34:31

I did the Stage 1 cam. Nice power bump.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by 360k+ on 07/02/12 at 07:56:30

First off I'd drain the oil and examine it very carefully, both visually and also running a magnet thru it. If there is metal present on the head/cam area (which it appears), then metal has likely already migrated to the case and circulated by the pump; at least the stuff that gets thru the screen. Certainly during disassembly, pull the individual parts and mic them, but my opinion says replacing entire head assembly because it looks like not only the cam lobes were starving, but also the bearings too. Plus, you probably have no idea how long the PO ran it in this condition. To me, it looks like damage was being done by the minute!

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/12 at 08:02:19

Class,, CLASS!,, Pay attention here,,( POinter stick slapping the picture hanging on the board) What we have here is a classic example of "Fixing it Broke".. only THIS "Broke" is not just broke, its Tore the heck UP..
Im glad ya got it on the cheap.,Now, you have the perfect ottorpunity to build it up kinda Hot,..

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by 360k+ on 07/02/12 at 08:16:48

Yup, yup, yup... I was trying to hint around at that without being too harsh. If it was me, I'd throw the whole motor out and get another. I've attempted rebuilds like this before, and it never seems to work out... ummm, at least not for very long. If you have to keep going back in, the time, effort, and $$$ just isn't worth it. :'(.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Oldfeller on 07/02/12 at 08:27:01

The head bearings are shot, the cam is shot, the rockers are shot, the bore is likely scored and the piston skirt destroyed (you'll see if you get in that far).

The person that sold you that bike has defrauded you by his absolutely crappy & sloppy repair work. Take the photo evidence you have here to a small claims court judge and he would reward you damages to cover the "new" used motor you are going to have to buy.

Then, save your crap motor for spare parts.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Spamy on 07/02/12 at 08:58:42

I dont know how it is in Texas, but in California all used motorcycle sales are as is, no warranty. You have to check everything out and know what you are getting.

Ive rebuilt several singles like this and the price always seems to hover around $1200 bucks more or less once you replace a handful of parts. Perhaps closer to 800 if you dont have to split the case. Parts and gaskets just cost and add up quick.

You could just do the minimum, clean it up and replace what is absolutely necessary and maybe get off for around 500 or so, but you will likely end up with something that is gonna have other issues along the way and not be super reliable.

Maybe this is a good candidate to pull the motor and drop a DR650 motor in it. It should not require a ton of mods and it runs 45 hp as opposed to the 30hp that the LS650 puts out.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/12 at 08:58:47

How cheap did you get it?

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Spamy on 07/02/12 at 09:00:06

Actually, dont you Texas guys carry guns at will. That should make dealing with the seller a little different.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Boule’tard on 07/02/12 at 09:14:31

0B28393521580 wrote:

Maybe this is a good candidate to pull the motor and drop a DR650 motor in it. It should not require a ton of mods and it runs 45 hp as opposed to the 30hp that the LS650 puts out.

The DR650 does not put out half-again more power than the LS650 (I wish). And there'd be a lot of incidentals to address.. the way the header connects & location probably means a new exhaust system.. the 2-plug ignition.. mounting the oil cooler, etc. And a used DR motor will run you more $$ than a Savage motor before you even begin shoehorning it in there.

My 2 cents on this prob would be to dig further and see if the piston/cylinder is scored as Oldfeller mentions. If it is, get a used LS motor. If it isn't, get a used head w/cam and rockers.

Also, if you save the bottom end.. comb through it very carefully because a sizeable chunk may have come off that rocker (the nub) and ended up in the sump.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/12 at 09:49:52

Wouldnt that "Little Debby" scrubby pad stuffed in the oil passageway catch the big stuff?

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Boule’tard on 07/02/12 at 11:11:34

5F4046415C5B6A5A6A52404C07350 wrote:

Wouldnt that "Little Debby" scrubby pad stuffed in the oil passageway catch the big stuff?

You mean Little Debbie?

http://www.littledebbie.com/images/products/oat1.gif

Yes, you are right. Sadly, an oatmeal cream pie was brutally disfigured in the engine.. http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Templates/Forum/default/cry.gif

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/12 at 11:17:42

Man, thats just inhumane.. now Im all sad & stuff.,.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Boule’tard on 07/02/12 at 11:25:55

Yeah the little fella did all he could.. http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Templates/Forum/default/cry.gif I'm sure the bottom end would have locked up if not for the filling..

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by verslagen1 on 07/02/12 at 11:49:52

081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:

Wouldnt that "Little Debby" scrubby pad stuffed in the oil passageway catch the big stuff?

The scrubby pad is in the cover to recapture oil trying to escape through the breather. Won't do anything with the sludge in the sump.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/12 at 12:05:56

Ahhh yaaaazzz,, I remember nowwww..
Nothing to keep a hunk O junk falling into the sump down by the cam chain is there?

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Hotrodchriz on 07/02/12 at 17:58:23

Yeah it does suck, and I dont wish this on anyone.

I bought this bike for 550bucks so I am not THAT bummed but still...

what sucks most is that the purpose of the bike was enjoy the quick build & enjoy the ride while saving some money but it looks like I am gona be dumping some unwanted cash I dont really have into it...

Im not the kind of person to go through legal action with the previous owner. If he really knew what was wrong with it he will get what he deserves on his own. Like I said I guess this is going to be a slow rebuild.... :'(

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/02/12 at 18:09:01

If he really knew what was wrong with it he will get what he deserves on his own.

Thats a fine philosophy,.,Youll be okay, hopefully. Heck, you may come out WAY ahead,, in the long run. With any luck, itll be down long enough for you to rethink that whole
"No Front Brake" idea..

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by Hotrodchriz on 07/02/12 at 22:22:34

524D4B4C51566757675F4D410A380 wrote:

With any luck, itll be down long enough for you to rethink that whole
"No Front Brake" idea..

Lol still bustin my balls about it haha ;D

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/12 at 01:44:22

Well,, the front Is where the majority of the Whooooaaaa stuff comes from. & Ive sure seen a few times when if I couldnt Whhooooaaaa in a right now kinda way, I woulda got hurt.,.maybe youll never need to stop quickly, but if ya do, youre pretty shafted, cuz the rear brakes on these things just arent all that great,.

Title: Re: found out my ticking and power loss issure....
Post by mnefred on 07/03/12 at 02:37:26

Just out of curiosity I Googled LS650 engine. E-bay has several listings, ranging from a complete engine "for parts" for about $120, to a "good running" engine with about 4K miles for $999. Also had a couple of listings for runners with 8 to 10 k for $650. Interesting outfit selling the runners, they take credit cards/PayPal which would give you some consumer protection, plus they offer 30 day returns.
Good luck!