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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Healthcare... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1340992878 Message started by Serowbot on 06/29/12 at 11:01:18 |
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Title: Healthcare... Post by Serowbot on 06/29/12 at 11:01:18 HMO's and big Pharma have spent 250 million in negative ads to kill Obamacare... That is money that came from working people to insure their health... it clearly didn't go to care... How much have they spent lobbying?... I don't know... but, I'll bet it's a substantial sum... How far would that money go to paying for Obamacare?... estimates are a little over 1 trillion for ten years... That money would have covered more than a than a quarter of it,... ...wasted... You paid for it... They're not fighting for you,.. they're fighting for their profits... 2/3rds of private bankruptcies are related to healthcare... Obamacare will end that... No man will lose all his life's work and savings due to an illness... This is why we buy insurance of any kind... To protect ourselves... Private health insurance does not protect you... 2/3rds of private bankruptcies are related to healthcare... Good riddance... to a corrupt system... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/12 at 11:08:58 Aaaand once again, the people are looking at the curtain between the puppets & the puppet operators. YOure looking at a shadow boxing match, they werent against this, they want it, Big Pharma is gonna make BILLIONS they wouldnt have made now, because theres gonna be 35 or so Million more consumers, |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Serowbot on 06/29/12 at 11:52:06 They will have more customers, and will make profits... but, they won't be allowed to make outrageous profits... They don't spend 250 million for funzies... :-?... This is the problem with conspiracy theories... Curtains everywhere... There are no curtains... These things are done in the open and legal... This is greed... pure and simple... All American, Yankee Doodle, patriotic, flag wavin',... greed... |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/12 at 11:57:00 250 millions wasnt Spent for "funzies" It was spent precisely to accomplish what it did. It convinced people Big Pharma was against a bill just like the people were. Its Chump Change compared to what theyll make in a short time & I think youll see their profits soar. IF the People saw nothing but support from Big Corporate Interests, they would have fought harder against it, because they would have seen who was gonna benefit & its not us, I assure you.,.We WILL regret this in a few short years, |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Serowbot on 06/29/12 at 12:33:48 You forget... I've lived with a nation health system for years... You also forget,.. Medicare has the highest patient customer satisfaction rate of all health deliverers in the US... In a few short years... people will wonder what all this fuss was about... and why it took so long to figure out what the rest of the world already knows... ... and cost will be less... much less... no crippled economy... If the system we have now hasn't done it,... no way will a National health... You seem to think the negative ad campaigns are lies... yet you are fully believing the fear-mongering, paranoid, lies they told... "It'll be terrible,.. death panels,.. soaring costs... ruined economy,... kill grandma"... All lies from big money interests... Believe them or don't.... but you can't believe they are lies, and believe them as truth at the same time... |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/12 at 13:20:01 So, you are able to see Big {harma will have a whole slew of new customers, yet, theyre against the bill that would create that., |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Drifter on 06/29/12 at 13:40:43 +1 Bot, You cant make a blind man see!!! |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/12 at 13:44:01 44726966746572000 wrote:
Youve no idea how correct you are,, or how much Ive seen, |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Boule’tard on 06/29/12 at 18:56:22 Whether or not Obamacare turns out to be a good idea in the long run, is a matter of debate, to say the least. All these fortunetelling arguments of effect are extremely hard to sort out... only a fool predicts the future. That applies to this health care thing as well as the right wing we-gotta-police-the-world or there'll be MAYHEM by gobbity gooseshit! :D Have you ever considered why on Earth a person would ever hate another, over a difference of opinion? A person disagrees.. FINE, it takes all kinds to fill up the freeway, not a problem at all. Why is there even such a thing as "right wing hate radio" anyway? The answer of course, is that those opinions eventually get worked into some government policy, forcing the disagreer to go along with, and support that which he disagrees. That is what's so infuriating. People can smell that a mile off, so they tend to get their dander up before the thing ever goes into effect. I would never berate you for your opinion (in itself) that socialized medicine is a good idea. I would never deny you the right to run a community experiment, among willing participants, to see if it worked out, and how well. And I wouldn't dream of forcing you to actively treat your neighbors a certain way. The first rule of medicine is "do no harm" right? At a minimum, do no more harm than leaving them alone. Won't you extend me the same courtesy? I don't mean in meaningless web forum pontification. I mean in a material way, as in, may I withdraw my financial support from this thing I think may be harmful in the long term? But Boule'! No man is an island! We're all in this together, and we have this system of democracy you see, whereby we must go with what the majority thinks is best! Fine then, will you at least be a Democrat and recognize that greater than 50% of We the People do not want it. The anniversary of this flagship piece of legislation has passed with nary a whimper and now it's like Obama doesn't want to even mention it. He knows people generally don't want it. See, to remain pro-Obamacare requires that you 1)arrogantly bust out the crystal ball and conclude that the effects will be more good than harm 2)deny your fellow countrymen the simple, natural right to disagree with the idea by not participating in it, and 3)sell out the very concept of democracy. That's some blue koolaid there dude. ;) |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Serowbot on 06/29/12 at 19:22:49 Boule'... the only penalty for not participating was a fine, that which was not to be enforced, as stated in the original bill... now, it will not be enforced and neither will any state for non-participation... So,... you are free to be without... or choose private... The enticement will come along quickly when it is shown to be better and cheaper... or free if you are within 1 1/2 times the poverty level... ... but,... when people are questioned about the individual parts of Obamacare,... each and every element of it, polls at 65% or better approval... The 250 million dollars of negative publicity, and years of outrage from the right-wing media has had it's effect... They hate Obamacare, but agree with everything in it... Lower overhead and bureaucracy , no shareholder dividends or corporate bonus's, better preventative care, more efficient care delivery, negotiated cost containments... Small business will boom,.. and entrepreneurship will flourish... No more being trapped in your job by family health needs... This is a freedom... to pursue dreams... It makes us competitive with other countries that already have such freedom... You are not being forced... it's written in the bill... Roughly stated... "IRS will not and cannot seize property or funds or take garnishments for any non-payment of fines"... Again,.. not a real quote, but similar in meaning.. So,.. you're good to go... ;)... PS... a side note.. legalization of pot, along with taxing it would pay for half the cost of Obamacare... 25m in savings from enforcement and sentences, and 25 m in revenues... 50m per year... 500m over ten... half a trillion... Estimates are a bit over trillion for a decade of Obamacare...(realistically a little more)... BTW... HMO costs are multiples of magnitude higher... |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/12 at 20:13:10 Every poll Ive seen showed about a 60/40 split against. We are supposedly a representative republic, IF that were true, the REpresentatives would have voted as their constituents wanted. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by WebsterMark on 06/30/12 at 06:20:48 Two of the most excellent and telling back to back post as you’ll find on here… Boule: I mean in a material way, as in, may I withdraw my financial support from this thing I think may be harmful in the long term? No, you can’t withdrawal Boule. You are in it and there’s nothing you can do about it. You WILL be TAXED if you do not participate. You are no different now than a state that raises it’s speed limit against the Fed’s wishes. They can’t tell you it’s illegal for you to raise your speed limit, but you’re pocket book’s gonna take a big hit…. This from the pro-choice crowd… So,... you are free to be without... or choose private... No, companies will bail from their insurance plans and turn their employees over to obamacare. They already are. If you ran a company, you’d do the same. You could cut your HR staff, fewer mandates you have to follow. Just get out of the health insurance business all together.(which i agree with, just not like this) So, there will not be a choice, I will in all likelihood, by default be forced into government healthcare. My company is HQ in Sweden and they’ll love the government healthcare idea. Of course, Sweden isn’t the US and they don’t live here. The enticement will come along quickly when it is shown to be better and cheaper... or free if you are within 1 1/2 times the poverty level... I’m going to freaking scream if I hear this BS again….! Tell me,…. point me to any evidence you have that the US government bureaucracy has demonstrated the ability to take over 1/6 of the US economy and will make it better, cheaper??? This question has been asked over and over but purposely ignored. There is simply no way, it defies logic. Bureaucrats from the IRS took a Idaho family to court for building a house the EPA said was on protected wetland. News to the family looking out over dry land…. The bureaucrats sent them notices they owed $37,000 a day for everyday they didn’t return land to original state. Luckily this guy had the balls to counter sue and it actually went to the supreme court after 3 years of battle. This is what you’re in for. Healthcare oversight will be handled by federal workers. This is what you’re in for. Again, point to me evidence that leads you to believe this will be the one thing the US government bureaucratic system does differently than everything else…..??? Free?! Free?! My kids think dinner everything night is free but is it really free? Somebody pays for it. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Serowbot on 06/30/12 at 07:17:07 How will it be cheaper?... I've listed , time and again... You refusing to listen don't change the facts... ... but,.. we currently have a system that costs two to three times the average of other countries, with worse outcomes and less covered... and, a third of what we pay goes to HMO profits and stockholders... You couldn't make a less efficient, more bungled system if you tried... |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/30/12 at 09:10:46 3325322F37222F34400 wrote:
KEEEEE Rekktamundo! & HOW did we get here? No one saw this coming? I used to be able to pay 35 a month in the 70's, just for me, single dude & I had a Blue Cross Blue Shield card in my pocket. I could walk into any office & get medical attention. OHHH, but that was too easy,, it needed Fixed, sooo, the government decided to start Tweaking the system & pretty soon, they had driven insurance companies into HMOs, & services got harder to get & more costly, Insurance companies nhow had many more people on staff to handle all the BS that the HMO created, This looks just like the way they did the education system. They started tweaking & when it got worse, instead of going back to what worked, they demanded more $$$ to bring in new programs & tweak more,, NOW look what we have, Charlotte Izerbyt, FREE, online, the deliberate dumbing down of America & she was 2nd in command in DC, she KNOWS. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by WebsterMark on 07/01/12 at 05:29:42 I just read the headlines of about 30 articles from 2012 indicating the cost of healthcare is rising rapidly in Europe. That was predictable. Services are being rationed whether you want to admit it or not, it’s happening. I just can’t understand you Sew (or anyone else) with the notion that government running anything makes is more efficient and less expensive; much less an industry touching 1/6 of the economy. There is nothing you can point to that illustrates this. Nothing. But this discussion is a moot point to a certain degree. The real cost of Obamacare will take 5+ years to overwhelm us and by then it might be too late. And the idea that this makes Romney’s case easier, I just don’t get. I read several Republican articles saying this, but I disagree. Yea, Romney raised about 5 million bucks 3 seconds after Roberts’s decision, but so what? If this election turns into a decision on healthcare, Romney loses. There’s no way he’ll be able to overcome Obama’s campaign, left leaning culture and the left leaning msm’s protection of him. No way. Brian Williams will have ‘news’ stories about people in hospitals and what will happen to them if Romney gets elected. NBC might as well have that little campaign ending on the last 5 seconds of every broadcast; I’m Barack Obama and I approved this message… If, however, Romney keeps pointing out the economy sucks and it’s obama’s fault (which it is) and obamacare is just another example of this, and he makes the case that America succeeds when she depends on her citizens not elected officials, he has a chance. That’s a tough (but true) argument to make. I’m not optimistic. I’m afraid we have 4 more years of hope and change…. Oh boy… but,.. we currently have a system that costs two to three times the average of other countries, with worse outcomes and less covered... and, a third of what we pay goes to HMO profits and stockholders... one last point on this; I am one of those stockholders as are millions, maybe even you. My 401(k), which is a hell of a lot more valuable than all the money I’ve paid in SS all these years, is funded by profits like this. I know it’s fashionable to call profits a dirty word, but there are a hundred million Americans putting money back into the economy that come from these evil profits. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/01/12 at 06:58:14 OUr economy can not grow, regardless of all the $$$ made & spent, IF ALL THAT $$$ originates In America., The only way we grow economically is when $$$ comes in from elsewhere., An INdividual can get rich but the country cant. An individual can make gains by selling to others outside his household, but not inside his own household., Can a dad make his son rich by going to the factory & punching out fenders all day & then payng his kid to haul the trash out? No, A Nation Must sell to other nations in order to prosper, anyone who doesnt get that is beyond hope, Until we get back to manufacturing & exporting & NOT having a a trade deficit, theres no earthly way we will survive economically., Everything else is just moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic, OHH, & BTW, there is no solution in the ballot box, our voices are not heard in DC. OUr electeds do NOT vote acording to what their constituents want. If they did, then the polls prior to the voting on this bill would have made them vote against it. So, theres NOT a bigger power in DC making the decisions, BUT, the electeds vote against the will of the people anyway,, Hard to explain all that. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Retread on 07/02/12 at 22:04:02 This is just a bandaid, sooner or later we will have to pull the darn thing off. And when we do, we will have to face the fact that the ONLY way to finance healthcare that is available to all is to socialize medicine. We are already spending more on healthcare than any other country in the world (matching that for war), we can pander to the insurance lobby only so long.. The freedom of sticking the other guy for your medical care just because you want a boat, motorcycle, or new car is leaving. So is being a ward of the state all your life and getting free healthcare, your payment will come from your welfare check, might want to go to work now? With it comes a new freedom, by not have to worry about how your going to pay for your healthcare, everybody pays, everything is covered, from birth to death.. Our population is growing, to provide for all we will all have to pull together, or die separately.. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by WebsterMark on 07/03/12 at 05:13:03 The freedom of sticking the other guy for your medical care just because you want a boat, motorcycle, or new car is leaving. Say what??? What are you talking about? |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Starlifter on 07/03/12 at 06:28:50 Health care law saves consumers over $1 billion. http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2012pres/06/20120621a.html Health care law saves consumers over $1 billion Health care law provides rebates to more than 12 million consumers Today, Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced that 12.8 million Americans will benefit from $1.1 billion in rebates from insurance companies this summer, because of the Affordable Care Act’s 80/20 rule. These rebates will be an average of $151 for each family covered by a policy. The health care law generally requires insurance companies to spend at least 80 percent of consumers’ premium dollars on medical care and quality improvement. Insurers can spend the remaining 20 percent on administrative costs, such as salaries, sales, and advertising. Beginning this year, insurers must notify customers how much of their premiums have been actually spent on medical care and quality improvement. Insurance companies that do not meet the 80/20 standard must provide their policyholders a rebate for the difference no later than Aug. 1, 2012. The 80/20 rule is also known as the Medical Loss Ratio (MLR) standard. "The 80/20 rule helps ensure consumers get fair value for their health care dollar," Secretary Sebelius said. Consumers owed a rebate will see their value reflected in one of the following ways: •a rebate check in the mail; •a lump-sum reimbursement to the same account that they used to pay the premium if by credit card or debit card; •a reduction in their future premiums; or •their employer providing one of the above, or applying the rebate in a manner that benefits its employees. Insurance companies that do not meet the 80/20 standard will send their policyholders a rebate for the difference no later than Aug. 1, 2012. Consumers in every state will also receive a notice from their insurance company informing them of the 80/20 rule, whether their company met the standard, and, if not, how much of difference between what the insurer did or did not spend on medical care and quality improvement will be returned to them. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Retread on 07/03/12 at 06:56:53 754740515647506F435049220 wrote:
Many of the uninsured have the means to buy insurance, they choose not to, they know that if the hospitals have to give them basic treatment.. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8427/7494268682_a7442d4fa9.jpg |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by WebsterMark on 07/03/12 at 08:06:03 okay, i get your point now, wasn't sure. simple, stop providing care. Problem solved. |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by WebsterMark on 07/03/12 at 08:11:34 "The 80/20 rule helps ensure consumers get fair value for their health care dollar," Secretary Sebelius said. Fine, let's enforce the 80/20 rule on Sebelius too. You think her HHS department operates on a 80/20 rule?! The waste, fraud and unnecessary spending they piss away dwarfs private industry. The idea they can impose their view of fiscal responsibility is the ultimate pot calling the kettle black…. Hell, social security is an illegal ponzi scheme so who are they to tell an industry what their % must be… |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by Retread on 07/03/12 at 08:15:58 Let em die on the street? |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/12 at 09:23:09 7C4B5A5C4B4F4A2E0 wrote:
Seen much of that? Health care law saves consumers over $1 billion. Even if thats true, before the goobs started meddlin in the 70's, things were working fine. Insurance was cheap, cost me about 35/mo to have Blue Cross. I could go to any dr, anywhere & get help,then, they started the HMO crap & its been downhill since, but instead of going back to what worked, they take another step away from sanity. Just EXACTLY like what was done in the schools, & God I wish someone would take the time to just LOOK at Deliberate Dumbing Down, Its FREE, online, The schools were deliberately sabotaged, & so is our economy & now our health care, If its such a great idea, why isnt Congress in it? Hello? YOud let the cook bring you Hamburger Helper then go in the kitchen & cook herself up a nice steak? No, youd fire her,, No way does the hired help get better goods & services than the homeowner, Health care law saves consumers over $1 billion. Ohh, look, the nice young man is helping the poor little old lady up & Paying for her pants she tore when she fell. No one points out he is using the $$$ he lifted from her purse he picked it out of when he knocked her down., |
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Title: Re: Healthcare... Post by sendjulian on 11/03/15 at 17:01:16 bump for no change |
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