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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
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Message started by carguyz on 06/25/12 at 12:26:14

Title: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by carguyz on 06/25/12 at 12:26:14

Hi All,

I was thinking of using the Mike's XS 2.15 -18 H rims on front and rear of our Street Tracker project. Part number is 34-1902. The Duro HF-308 Pirelli clone tires are available in 4.00-18 and 3.50-18 sizes for the look we want.

Has anybody used these rims? I know there has been some controversy about the Ryca respoked rear wheels, something about the angle of the holes being off or the spokes not being straight. I think they used a 2.50 rim, sourced from? Since the brake drums on the XS650 and Savage are nominally the same I see no problem on the rear.

Anybody have an idea of spoke lengths for the front? Somebody here must have done the 18 inch conversion.

NO, I am NOT going to have somebody else spoke the wheel for me. This is a project for my son and I to work on and I want to show him how to do stuff, including respoking a wheel. The fun for us is in working together on old vehicles, most of which are never finished. Throwing money at a "professional" isn't in the do it yourself spirit I'm trying to teach him.

Of course if we screw it up there is always the "Pay somebody else to do the technical stuff" option. It's been a few years since I built a wheel. Lots of good how-tos on the "Net now so we should be able to muddle through. If it works out we will post a Savage specific step by step on the Technical Forum.

John in the PRC

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/25/12 at 17:13:11

Id study the lacing & pull a spoke. You know the difference in diameter of the rim you want & the rim you have. So, you know the difference in spoke length, almost.,, Dont forget youre working at an angle,
But it should be easy enough to get right,
These aluminum spokes are hard to keep looking good, dodge them,

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by mpescatori on 06/26/12 at 02:44:48

If the bike is to be converted into a cafe racer of sorts, I'd be careful with the stock rear drum, as it could prove too powerful.

The Savage stance puts a lot of weight onto the rear wheel, so a big fat drum is necessary.

On a cafe racer, on the other hand, the front wheel holds 50+% of the weight of the rider. so an oversize drum may prove excessive and lock the wheel.

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by Dave on 06/26/12 at 04:51:45

Buchanan's has the information for the front and rear hubs on the Savage, and I just ordered stainless spoke sets and Excel aluminum rims from them. I am lacing up my own wheels. If there are part numbers when they arrive I will provide them.

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by John in Kalifornia on 06/26/12 at 07:41:46

Dave,

Thanks for the offer. I was thinking of the Mike's XS rims because they are cheaper, $85 vs. over $200 for Buchanans.

For sure I would want the stainless spokes, which may be available also from another source if I knew the length. Or just quit being so cheap and order from the spoke shop.

John in the PRC

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by Dave on 06/26/12 at 09:32:47

1E353B0E5C0 wrote:

Dave,

Thanks for the offer. I was thinking of the Mike's XS rims because they are cheaper, $85 vs. over $200 for Buchanans.

You don't have to get rims from Buchanans....they will just sell spoke kits if that is all you want. They just need to know the rim dimensions, they already have the hub dimensions.

The advantage of the rims from Buchanans - is that the rims are not punched, and the holes they punch for the nipples will match the angle of the spokes. The rear hub is large diameter and the front hyub is a small diameter on the Savage - so the holes in the rim are probably punched at different angles.

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by teabowl13 on 06/27/12 at 04:45:37

Funny you should be posting this...
I ordered spokes from Buchannan's for this very reason; I have a vitage 18" rim to mount. Long story short; the gave me the option of large or smaller diameter spoke nipples and it turns out the large ones I ordered won't work with the rim I have. I will be calling them today to see if I can exchange them, but they were custom ordered and they may not take them back; if that's the case, I might have a set to sell you if they will work on your rim.

It did turn out to be more complicated than I had anticipated (Especially because I had a "friend" helping me who said he had and "expert" to do the job... His "expert" proved useless, and now it's nearly July and I'm still wheel-less because I ordered my spokes based on his mis-information.

If you contact Buchannan's yourself; they are very thorough, and will ask a lot of questions, but if you have the rim in hand and can give them accurate measurements, you'll get the right spokes the first time.

I did search Ebay for less expensive spokes, and while I found a god set for the rear wheel, I didn't find anything in the right size for the front.

Good luck!!

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by carguyz on 06/27/12 at 13:09:29

teabowl13,

Tried to PM you but they say I have too few posts. I understand the administrators being behind in updating the database, it's a volunteer position. Just glad to have the opportunity to discuss Savage related topics.

I had the same experience with the cost of spokes, couldn't find a listing for 18 inch disc brake front spokes. Did some measurements and found that the XS650 and Suzuki Savage rear drums have close to the same hole pattern circle diameter so will order the stainless spokes from Mikes XS with a pretty good chance they will fit.

The angle of the spokes for the front rim and the rear of course won't be the same because of the different center hub dimensions, disc vs. drum brake. Whether this will be a problem or not will have to see. I'm willing to take a chance at less than half the price of Buchanan's on the angle being close enough.

John in the PRC

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by teabowl13 on 06/27/12 at 23:34:18

SO... Are you ordering spokes for the FRONT wheel from the XS650 guys?
Or did you mean the rear wheel? Or both?

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by carguyz on 06/28/12 at 00:13:33

The rear wheels on both bikes (Savage-XS650) seem to have the same drum hole "bolt circle" diameter so that would indicate that the spokes would be the same, so I'm ordering those.

I don't see any description on the site for FRONT spokes for a disc brake bike with 18 inch wheels. Don't know the dimensions of the Yamaha anyway. I would think one could measure the spokes of the Suzuki stock 19 inch wheel/brake combo and fudge for the 1/2 inch smaller 18 inch wheel, maybe with some trig thrown in to account for the angle. I dunno.

John in Kalifornia (using this name for consistency)

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by Dave on 07/03/12 at 10:47:09

I just got my front spoke set from Buchanans.

They have the length listed as 7-15/16", with a bend angle of 70 degrees - this is for my 18" Excel rim. I have not yet tried them to see if they fit......hopefully next week I will have time.

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by John in Kalifornia on 07/03/12 at 13:04:27

Hi Dave,

I would be interested in the sizes of the spokes. Are they all the same length? What is the diameter of the spokes? Do they have a constant thickness or are they "necked down in the middle?

If one has the information then possibly some spokes for another application may work, or one could custom order certain length.

Probably best just to order from Buchanans, just playing what-if.

John in Kalifornia

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by Spamy on 07/03/12 at 20:07:21

The rear hub with an 18" rim would optimally use a 124mm spoke. Try to get one that is 4 to 4.5 mm in thickness. Its the proper alignment for the rear wheel spokes. The setup they use on the Ryca is an alternative pattern that comes out kinda crappy and I suspect the wheel works guys did it because that was the size of spoke they had on the shelf and could do it cheap and/or quick.

My brother is just about to order spokes for his 18 inch front wheel, I will repost and see what length we come up with, he already has the rim and hub, we just have to determine the spoke length.

Oh yea, for the rear you will need an inner/outer configuration also. And on the front its just a semi-straight pull like a dirtbike. I have a few sets of excel spoke sets laying around, Ill check if any of them are close.

I just did my rear 18 inch rim last weekend, so I am very sure about what you will need. Of the common sizes available, 120mm will be a bit short but you will still get 10mm of threads grabbing and if you go with a 129mm spoke you also get around 10mm of threads meshing and the will be long and have to grind of the ends. So 124mm would be ideal, but its not one of the common pre-made lengths unless you can figure out a bike that has that size.

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by Spamy on 07/03/12 at 20:08:46

Also, my brother says that the selection for an 18 inch front wheel is really terrible, so keep that in mind. You may end up with something a little ugly or a rear style tire on the front. Look around and see what you can find.

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by Dave on 07/04/12 at 04:49:57

577465697D040 wrote:

The dirtbike rear wheel (18x2.15) seems to be a pretty common size and there are lots of candidates.....you may end up with a rim lock hole to be plugged. My 2009 Kawasaki Super Sherpa had a rubber plug in the front rim - so you could get one of those if you end up with a rim that used a rim lock. I am not sure about the quality and/or suitablility of a dirt bike rim for a street bike. I don't know how round they are or how strong they are. There are lots of very affordable rims made for dirt bikes - and I am not sure the alignment of the spoke holes works out well on the rear of the Savage as the large brake drum would not have been used on a modern dirt bike. I think the potential of getting a dirt bike rim with proper spoke alignment on the front is more probable, as the Savage front hub is a disc brake hub and more apt to match the hubs on dirt bike.

I ordered the Excel rims from Buchanan - more expensive but the punch the spoke holes in the rim at the proper alignment for the hub that you will be using and the size of the spoke nipples.

Title: Re: Spoke length for 18 inch front wheel
Post by teabowl13 on 07/06/12 at 09:49:54

HEY GUYS,
I'm not sure of the exact sizes off hand, but I ordered a set of spokes for my vintage 18" front rim from Buchannan's, and it turns out I may need to order another set.

The reason being that I ordered straight spokes that are not tapered down; they gave me two choices for the nipples; larger or smaller, and I chose that larger ones on their advice. They told me I could easily drill the holes in my rim out. Looking at it now, it does appear that I will be better off ordering a second set with tapered threads which will use the smaller nipples.

That being said; The first set I ordered were custom made and non-returnable, so if anyone is interested, please let me know. (Please send me a PM...) I'll gladly send them to you for my cost. They should work perfectly with any of the modern 18" rims.... They are stainless, with nickle plated nipples I believe. I'll get the exact specs if anyone likes.