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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachometer /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1340559015 Message started by 87 savage on 06/24/12 at 10:30:14 |
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Title: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachometer Post by 87 savage on 06/24/12 at 10:30:14 Has anyone found a decent, reasonably priced tachometer that will work on the LS650? And if so, how difficult is the install? |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by rodeoclown on 06/24/12 at 11:50:44 Ebay Kosi digital mini tach it is just under 60 bucks and a breeze to put on |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/24/12 at 13:16:47 Thanks Rodeoclown! I guess they sold em all because a search on ebay comes up 0 results for Kosi digital mini tach. But that's ok because I really want an analog tach. What's involved in hooking up a tach on the Savage? |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/24/12 at 15:08:53 http://www.kirkengines.com/#AnalogTach Not chip,, not crappy, either,. http://www.cartpartsplus.com/tachometer-dial-type.html Remember, we get ignition at TDC exhaust, too, http://precisionspeed.com/smeng.php REad carefully & be sure. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by clearush on 06/24/12 at 15:46:10 I put this one on my bike, it pretty heavy duty and seems like it will last a while, not cheap crap that will break quickly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-7-8-MINI-ELECTRIC-TACHOMETER-WHITE-TACH-GAUGE-FIT-HARLEY-MOTORCYCLE-UNIVERSAL-/271003282454?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f190dec16&vxp=mtr#ht_8158wt_936 spliced it into the speedometer light postive and negative lines for power and used a side clip adapter to attach the green wire to the coil wire. took about 30-40 min taking the tank off, mounting the tach and using the wiring diagram to find the right wires to splice into. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by rodeoclown on 06/24/12 at 15:57:46 here is one on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Koso-North-America-Mini-Tachometer/dp/B0045T03AY |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/24/12 at 17:55:25 Wow! Thanks for all the great info guys. Clearush I looked at that one on ebay before, nice looking unit. I wasn't sure though because it said for Harley twin cyl. but it works on your bike. justin_o_guy2, that tach on cartsplus is sharp but that one also says for Vtwins. Is there settings on these tachs that you set for the number of cylinders? |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/24/12 at 18:32:04 Dangfino.,. remember when you talk to someone in sales to mention we get spark at TDC exhaust & compression, That mite work out as if it was reading a twin,, but, Im no pro, so ask, |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by clearush on 06/24/12 at 21:40:34 46595F5845427343734B59551E2C0 wrote:
This is why the one I posted works just fine, it connects to the coil and measures every spark pulse, which is 1 for compression and 1 for exhaust or 2rpm for every 4 stroke cycle which is as it should be. ;) Oh and it glows blue with the white face guage. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 360k+ on 06/25/12 at 13:52:19 Actually it's not quite that simple. One cylinder engines CAN fire every revolution; once on the compression stroke and again on the exhaust stroke, as has been pointed out. The exhaust stroke spark is wasted because the engine is already exhausting burning fuel. The only downside is the spark plug wears out twice as fast. However, one spark per rev is not always the case because the timing can also be derived from the camshaft which operates at half crankshaft speed. This would fire the plug every other rev and a tach designed for it would indicate twice the RPM on a Savage. Therefore, since a single cylinder engine only has one spark plug you only need one coil, but that coil may fire once per rev, or once every other rev. With 360 degree side-by-side twins (both pistons are at TDC simultaneously, but fire alternately) you can also use a single coil and fire both spark plugs every rev. Again, the cylinder that is exhausting won't matter. With 180 degree side-by-side twins it gets a little more complicated, and some engines will actually fire twice per rev to allow single coil/two cylinder operation. Further, single coil is also permissible for BMW & URAL boxer engines (opposed cylinders) because, like a side-by-side 360 twin, both pistons are at TDC simultaneously (one on compression, one on exhaust). V-twins, however, are a little more complicated because the 2 cylinders are NOT crankshaft symmetrical. By design, the ignition timing for each cylinder must be separate, and will, in fact, will be offset by the exact crankshaft angle (delta) between the cylinders. This presents a problem; i.e., either you must use a separate coil and timing trigger for each cylinder (called single fire ignition), or you can use a single coil fired at different crankshaft degrees and distribute the spark to the appropriate individual plug. In the latter case, the the coil dwell time will be different, but with only 2 cylinders, more than sufficient ( a relatively long time between firing). All this can be even more problematic in multi cylinder engines which can use a number of variations, ranging from one coil per cylinder (single fire) to one coil for all. Anyway, the problem for "universal" tachometers is to be able to take in these variations and produce an accurate reading. This is reasonably easy to do at the design stage, but harder as an afterthought when trying to adapt a tach to a situation is was not intended for. The tach internal design is usually done with "divide by" counters, the count of which is generally switch operated and selected by the consumer. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by EJID on 06/25/12 at 14:05:58 Here's a simple analog dial style tach that is almost identical to the one that I have installed. I like mine too ;D http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHROME-MINI-TACH-TACHOMETER-FITS-SUZUKI-WITH-CLAMP-/320600643904?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa5499940&vxp=mtr http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/SAMPOWERSPORTS1/DSC07580.JPG=600 |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/25/12 at 16:27:10 360k+ That sure is alot to ponder! So, all that being said, I'm not trying to play devils advocate, just trying to figure it out. How is it that the tach that EJID posted a link and pic for will work with the savage single cylinder. The ad for it says: "THIS TACHOMETER IS DESIGNED FOR DUAL FIRE IGNITIONS ONLY" and: "THIS MINI TACH WILL WORK ON ANY V-TWIN WITH A DUAL FIRE IGNITION!!" and: ITEM FITS SUZUKI MARAUDER, INTRUDER AND BOULEVARD MODELS So does "Dual Fire" mean that it fires every stroke? Or does "Dual Fire" just mean it fires both cylinders. And how will it work with a Vtwin and a single at the same time? All so darn confusing!! |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/25/12 at 16:29:57 Oh by the way thanks for the link EJID, I might just buy that one. I like the size. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by rfw2003 on 06/25/12 at 16:47:25 while it's not the cheapest solution, I'll be mounting up one of the TrailTech Vapor computers to my little savage here very soon. It allows you to either do the loops of wire around the coil wire, or direct connect to the low voltage trigger line of the coil. As far as setting it goes, it has settings for .5, 1 and 2 pulses per revolution. I went ahead and got the indicator dashboard with mine so I can completely do away with the speedo cluster in the tank, and fab a panel there to relocate my key switch there and a few power plugs. R.F. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/25/12 at 17:03:51 rfw2003, I just googled the Trail Tech Vapor comp. Holy crap, that rig will do it all and then some. odo, tach, temp, time, speedo, engine temp, shift lights, and on and on. Incredible. May have to rethink going analog. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by rfw2003 on 06/25/12 at 17:10:53 39343A3D2A2C696F6160580 wrote:
That's the reason I went with it. Plus it's not very big at all, even with the indicator dashboard accessory. With the computer mounted in the dashboard accessory at the widest point it's 5 1/2" wide 2 1/2" tall and 1" thick. So it's nice and compact as well. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/25/12 at 17:34:44 Quote:
Do you have it mounted yet? I'd love to see a picture of that! |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by rfw2003 on 06/25/12 at 17:49:23 while I don't have mine mounted yet since I'm doing alot of other things to the bike atm as well. here is a post where someone else has one mounted on theirs with the indicator dashboard as well. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338268746#9 |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 360k+ on 06/25/12 at 18:15:08 49444A4D5A5C191F1110280 wrote:
If the tach that EJID refers to works on a Savage, it is by virtue of the fact that on the dual fire Vtwins each cylinder fires every OTHER time (i.e., camshaft driven trigger). This would work on the Savage because it fires EVERY time, but is one cylinder. In other words, a dual fire coil still fires once per rev (like a Savage) because it fires both cylinders, but every other time. So the Savage "looks" like a VTwin dual fire system. This starts to get technical because on a VTwin the firing is NOT 360 deg symmetrical. For instance, on a 45 deg VTwin if you had a degree wheel attached to the crank what you would see is... 1st plug fires at 0 deg 2nd plug fires at 315 deg (360 - 45, note this is the 2nd firing within a single 360 deg rotation) 1st plug fires again at 720 deg (360 x 2, but 405 deg lag behind previous cylinder) 2nd plug fires again at 675 deg (315 + 360) For this reason a dual fire VTwin will actually fire TWICE within one 360 deg rotation and none in the next 360 rotation, even tho there are two cylinders. Now that it's all cleared up 8-). In the description for this tach it says it works on Boulevards, but I think they mean VTwin boulevards. It is just by luck (or cheaper design) that the Savage fires each rev, which makes it work. On the other hand, they may be smart enough to realize what I've just stated and have already taken the Savage into account (firing every rev). Keep in mind, even if a tach is "made" for one cylinder, the mfr must state whether it is designed for 1 fire or 2 fire per revolution. Otherwise, you get half or double the reading expected. Hey, I'm an engineer - don't dare ask me the the time of day - LOL. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/26/12 at 16:15:41 4C4A5952121E1819122B0 wrote:
Ok, that clears it up nicely! One more question though: (I feel like Columbo! depending on how old you are that might not make any sense to you) If the first plug fires at 0 deg and then again on the next compression stroke at 720 deg, shouldn't the second plug of a 45 deg Vtwin fire at 315 deg and again on the next compression stroke at 1035 deg not 675 deg (315 + 720 + 1035)? |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 360k+ on 06/26/12 at 17:39:16 By George 87, I believe you're right, and very astute of you to catch that. Alas, too many numbers, too little time. I was trying to think of a way to illustrate the VTwin vs Savage: Savage... pow...pow...pow...pow... VTwin... pow..pow.....pow..pow.....pow..pow.... |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by J C Stokes on 06/26/12 at 22:17:40 '87 Savage, according to Old Feller, one of the moderators, the bikes have a dual fire ignition system but I would double check for one as early as yours. This means the one shown in the photo would work. If you really want to spend money there is a flash Baron Bullet one that will work and buried in the thousands of posts is a post on tachs known to work on the Savage LS 650 Boulevard S40 |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by SuperSavage on 06/26/12 at 22:21:20 I've got the same tach as EJID has. The LS650 "IS" a dual fire ignition. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by Savage_Rob on 06/27/12 at 08:06:37 I've been through several of the really cheap ones and they just never seem to last. I just put this one on mine about a month ago and I like it a lot. It seems to be well built. It has a backlight, lots of settings to allow it to work with almost any bike and reads very steady. The installation instructions are pretty good and I had no trouble getting mine set up. Unfortunately I haven't had it installed long enough to tell you whether it will last. http://www.bikebandit.com/koso-gp-style-universal-tachometer |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by ralfyguy on 06/27/12 at 08:46:49 1725322523211B162B26440 wrote:
15,000rpm :o :o :o ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by kuri77 on 06/27/12 at 15:37:21 Got mine from Ryca Motors, easy to install, have had no problems. Nice to support an enterprise that sources most of their stuff locally. Check out Jay Leno's Garage video of their bike. If you're in SoCal drive over and save on shipping. Nice guys who answer any questions you have. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by lch2 on 06/27/12 at 15:44:23 I'm looking as an Acewell Digital Dash, it is around $200 but it has tach, speed, temp, fuel level N/A, trip, voltimeter. two hundred is a little too much, but I think it is a good chance for having tach, speed, trip and volts in a single point http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acewell-1600-Digital-Dash-Speedo-Tacho-Clocks-Kitcar-Lap-Timer-Remote-Control-/221039576788?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D216364765281564340%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26#ht_2394wt_1139 |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by rfw2003 on 06/27/12 at 15:47:59 545B500A380 wrote:
The trail tech unit does all the same stuff and is cheaper |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by lch2 on 06/27/12 at 15:54:18 62766722202023100 wrote:
The trail tech unit does all the same stuff and is cheaper[/quote] You are 100% correct, just looked at the Vapor, really nice, went directly to the Acewell as I had one before that I really liked, but Vapor is looking really good, and cheap! |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/27/12 at 16:50:59 1E2C3B2C2A28121F222F4D0 wrote:
Oooooooo That tach is sweet Savage_Rob. One of the best looking I've seen so far, and another person (forgive me I forgot who) had recommended a Koso. It was a digital rig though and I really like the looks of an analog dial. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/27/12 at 17:03:53 I want to thank everyone that has replied to this post. I'm a relative newbie to this site and I must say, it is awesome. I'm learning alot and quickly. So many great suggestions and ideas. So to recap the savage is a dual fire, fires on each stroke. The Harley dual fire twin fires only on the compression stroke, so that works with the savage. Since Harley's are extremely popular??? I should have many tachs to choose from....cool! |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by EJID on 06/28/12 at 07:38:40 7A77797E696F2A2C22231B0 wrote:
Just make sure you are looking at electronic tachs and avoiding the mechanical ones...would require some creative fabrication skills ::) Here's a pic of my tach...(I bought the same one as in my original post, but it arrived with a bent bezel, so I returned it and this LED color changing one arrived to replace it. Both had the same specs, but I kinda like the color when I am riding at night) http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/07/bikepics-2360970-full.jpg |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 06/28/12 at 17:55:32 737C7F72360 wrote:
That looks nice and clean, almost stock! Is that tank and gas cap painted flat black? |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by clearush on 07/10/12 at 18:51:53 I can no longer recommend the one I bought, it has flaked out on me after working fine for the last 3 weeks, It will work fine till 4500 rpms and then it freaks out and bounces all over the place. |
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Title: Re: Where can I get a decent inexpensive Tachomete Post by 87 savage on 07/11/12 at 02:19:07 313E37332027213A520 wrote:
Thanks for the update Clearush! Luckily I have been busy on other projects and haven't bought the tach yet. |
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