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Message started by Gyrobob on 06/18/12 at 14:31:43

Title: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by Gyrobob on 06/18/12 at 14:31:43

I'd like to check into a dual disc setup for the RYCA build I'm doing. ARe there any bikes that have 38 mm forks with relatively small dual disc brakes?

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by LANCER on 06/18/12 at 16:38:46

The early 80's Suzuki GS 550/650/750 had a model or 2 with dual discs that are not too big.

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by Gyrobob on 06/18/12 at 16:48:33

414C434E485F1F1A2D0 wrote:

The early 80's Suzuki GS 550/650/750 had a model or 2 with dual discs that are not too big.

I'll bet one or two of those models would have used 38mm fork tubes as well. It would be cool to stay within the Suzuki family, eh?

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by verslagen1 on 06/18/12 at 17:14:16

1A242F323F323F5D0 wrote:

[quote author=414C434E485F1F1A2D0 link=1340055103/0#1 date=1340062726]
The early 80's Suzuki GS 550/650/750 had a model or 2 with dual discs that are not too big.

I'll bet one or two of those models would have used 38mm fork tubes as well. It would be cool to stay within the Suzuki family, eh?[/quote]
There are no GS models with 38mm forks that I know of.
Most GS's are 35mm.

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by Gyrobob on 06/18/12 at 17:23:41

3F2C3B3A25282E2C2778490 wrote:

[quote author=1A242F323F323F5D0 link=1340055103/0#2 date=1340063313][quote author=414C434E485F1F1A2D0 link=1340055103/0#1 date=1340062726]
The early 80's Suzuki GS 550/650/750 had a model or 2 with dual discs that are not too big.

There are no GS models with 38mm forks that I know of.
Most GS's are 35mm.[/quote]

Drat. Got any suggestions? How about the early Intruders?

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by spacepirates on 06/18/12 at 18:11:06

The problem you get into here is that most triple trees are actually triple *clamps* and clamp onto the fork tube, whereas the savage doesn't do that cause it likes being an oddball.

The "easiest" thing to do in terms of compatibility is find an entire front end from a bike that has the same steering stem bearings as the savage and swap the whole thing. Front wheel, rotors, brake calipers, forks, triple tree, brake master cylinder and lever, maybe even the handlebars.

http://www.allballsracing.com/index.php/forkconvertion has a list of all the compatible steering stems, but it doesn't take into consideration stem length, though I don't think that is often a problem.

I'm in the (slow, because i'm lazy) process of putting a CBR600 front end on my XS750 (which also has a compatible stem to the savage) and it isn't too hard once you decide on what front end to go with. The one sacrifice I had to make was having the front and rear rims match as they are cast, but for a spoke rim there has to be something out there....

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by spacepirates on 06/18/12 at 18:12:53

if you WERE going to do just a fork swap, i found a list of fork diameters here:
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=20950.0

doesn't look like it takes the last 10 years into account though.

Code:

38 Honda CR-125R (81-83)
38 Honda XR-250R (84-85)
38 Kawasaki KX-80R2/R3/R4/R5/R6/R7 (92-97)
38 Kawasaki KX-125 A6-A7 (80-81)
38 Kawasaki KDX-200 A1-A3 (83-85)
38 Kawasaki KX-250 A5-A7 (79-81)
38 Kawasaki KDX-400 A1-A2 (79-80)
38 Kawasaki KX-420 A1-A2 (80-81)
38 Kawasaki KL-600A1 "KLR" (84)
38 Kawasaki ZX-600C1-C6 "Ninja" (88-93)
38 Kawasaki ZX-600C7-C10 "Ninja 600R" (94-97)
38 Kawasaki KL-650A1-A18 "KLR650" (87-04)
38 Kawasaki VN-700A1 "Vulcan" (85)
38 Kawasaki VN-750A2-A20 "Vulcan" (86-04)
38 Kawasaki ZX-750F1-F4 "Ninja" (87-90)
38 Kawasaki ZL-900A1/A2 "Eliminator" (85-86)
38 Kawasaki ZX-900A1-A3 "Ninja" (84-86)
38 Kawasaki KZ-1000C1-C4 "Police" (78-81)
38 Kawasaki KZ-1000J1-J3 (81-83)
38 Kawasaki KZ-1000K1/K2 "Ltd" (81-82)
38 Kawasaki KZ-1000P1-P20 "Police" (82-01)
38 Kawasaki ZL-1000A1 (87)
38 Kawasaki KZ-1100A1-A3 (81-83)
38 Kawasaki KZ-1100B1/B2 "GP" (81-82)
38 Kawasaki KZ-1100D1/D2 "Spectre" (82-83)
38 Kawasaki ZN-1100B1/B2 "Ltd" (84-85)
38 Suzuki RM-125 N/T/X/Z (79-82)
38 Suzuki RM-125 D (83)
38 Suzuki PE-175 Z/D/E (82-84)
38 Suzuki RM-250 N/T/X/Z (79-82)
38 Suzuki RM-400N/T (79-80)
38 Suzuki LS-650 FG/PG/FH/PH/PJ (86-88 )
38 Suzuki LS-650 PS/PT/PV/PW/PX/PY/PK1/PK2/PK3 "Savage"
(95-03)
38 Yamaha YZ-125 H/J/K (81-83)
38 Yamaha IT-175 J (82)
38 Yamaha IT-175 K (83)
38 Yamaha IT-250 H/J (81-82)
38 Yamaha YZ-250 D/E/F/G (77-80)
38 Yamaha FZR-400 U/SUC/W/SWC (88-89)
38 Yamaha FZR-400 A/SAC (90)
38 Yamaha YZ-400 D/E/F (77-79)
38 Yamaha IT-465 H (81)
38 Yamaha IT-465 J (82)
38 Yamaha YZ-465 G (80)
38 Yamaha XT-550 J/K (82-83)
38 Yamaha FZR-600 W/WC/AC/B/BC (89-91)
38 Yamaha FZR-600 RA/RAC/RB/***/RD/RDC/RE/REC (90-93)
38 Yamaha FZR-600 RF/RFC/RG/RGC/RH/RHC/RJ/RJC (94-97)
38 Yamaha XJ-600 SD/SDC/SE/SEC/SF/SFC/SG/SGC "Seca II" (92-96)

38 Yamaha XJ-600 SH/SHC/SJ/SJC "Seca II" (96-97)
38 Yamaha FZX-700S/SC/T/TC (86-87)
38 Yamaha XJ-700N/NC/S/SC "Maxim" (85-86)
38 Yamaha XJ-700 XN/XNC/XS/XSC "Maxim" (85-86)
38 Yamaha XV-700L/LC/N/NC "Virago" (84-85)
38 Yamaha XV-700CS/CSC/CT/CTC "Virago" (86-87)
38 Yamaha XV-700 J1/J1C (97)
38 Yamaha XV-750 U/UC/W/WC/A/AC/B/BC "Virago" (88-91)
38 Yamaha XV-750 D/DC/E/EC/F/FC/G/GC/H1/H1C/J1/J1C "Virago"
(92-97)
38 Yamaha XV-1000 L/LC/N/NC "Virago" (84-85)
38 Yamaha XV-1100 S/SC/T/TC/U/UC "Virago" (86-88 )
38 Yamaha XV-1100 W/WC/A/AC/B/BC/D/DC/E/EC "Virago" (89-93)
38 Yamaha XV-1100 F/FC/G/GC/H/HC/J/JC "Virago" (94-97)

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by verslagen1 on 06/18/12 at 18:18:01

6D5358454845482A0 wrote:

Drat. Got any suggestions? How about the early Intruders?

39mm
Suzuki Intruder
VS-750 GLPJ/GLPK/GLPL/GLPM (88-91)
VS-800 GLN/GLP (92-93)
VS-800GL R/S/T/V/W/X/Y/K1/K2/K3-K4 (94-04)

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by teabowl13 on 06/18/12 at 21:16:42

I think SpacePirate is right; if you realy want to do it, your best bet is a front end conversion. You'd not only get the brakes, but upgraded suspension and other goodies as well depending on what you chose as a donor bike.
Imagine your RYCA bike with a SV650 front end? Or GSXR?
It might be overkill on a bike like your RYCA, but it would definitely stand out!!

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by Gyrobob on 06/19/12 at 05:30:02

4D4E5F5D5B4E574C5F4A5B4D3E0 wrote:

Wow. this is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks large.

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by spacepirates on 06/19/12 at 07:09:29

5A646F727F727F1D0 wrote:

Wow. this is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks large.

Sorry it isn't exactly the news you wanted, but it isn't so bad. Finding an entire front end is rather annoying; no one on ebay sells them that way. I found a cheap parts bike on my local craigslist and just walked away with the front end.

Eventually (ha, like two years...) I plan on taking the CBR front end and putting that on the savage and getting some USD forks for the XS.

Don't forget that the allballs site is only the steering stem. I was kind of put out when there weren't a lot of USD forks available, but all you need is a triple clamp that will fit the steering stem with the right diameter for the new forks, and I think USD forks are fairly standard.

... so what I'm saying is that with a touch of research you can get pretty darn creative and have a lot of options here. USD forks on a savage (even a ryca) sounds like massive overkill to me though.

then again two sayings i live by:
go big or go home
too much is too much, but WAY too much is just right ;D

if you do end up messing around with this stuff, i do hope you'll be kind enough to post pictures!

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by teabowl13 on 06/19/12 at 11:43:44

I also wonder how hard or expensive it would be, if you found the forks you wanted, to have a machine shop make up some new triple clamps for them? Perhaps you could have them weld or press in a stock Savage steering stem?
You'd still then have to figure out the brakes and controls.
I had a '76 KZ750 twin years ago that came with a single disc stock; but all the front end parts were swapped with Z-1 parts, so all I had to do for the double disc was to find a disc and caliper and bolt them up.
I wonder if some of the older Suzuki models mentioned above are like that?

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by Spamy on 06/19/12 at 14:48:01

Of those mentioned above the FZR600 or ZX600 would be best bests as the triple trees will be setup for clipons if you are going that direction. I wish I had better access to a motorcycle wrecker to check these fits out.

Ive seen front ends for these anywhere from around 200 to 400 bucks.

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by Gyrobob on 06/19/12 at 16:22:31

How about a 4LS drum brake from a 70's GT550 triple or GT750 water buffalo from the 770's?

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by teabowl13 on 06/19/12 at 22:36:28

Somebody, (and I mean somebody wicked smart, like Verslagen or Lancer...) just posted something about those old drum brake outfits being compatible somehow with the Savage.
That would certainly look the part on my pseudo-vintage roadster thing-a-ma-jig, but right now I just want to get her in my hands and on the road.

I'd love to know more about that idea; more specifics, and has antone ACTUALLY done it? Or is it all just conjecture?

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by verslagen1 on 06/19/12 at 22:54:44

pretty sure that was WD.

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by Gyrobob on 06/20/12 at 06:02:57

1C2D292A273F24797B480 wrote:

They weren't very good brakes, actually, but the cool factor is high. The visual impact is there because they have such a big lump of cast aluminum parts out there for all to see. Disc brakes used to have quite a wow factor,.. but they are so common now,... not very exciting, visually, eh?

Back in the 70s I owned a T500 Titan with a drum front brake (2LS) and all it did was give trend information to the front wheel. I test drove the 550 and 750 triples several times with 4LS front brakes, and they felt a lot stronger, about as good as a stock Savage single disc brake.

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by teabowl13 on 06/20/12 at 07:10:41

Yeah, I think that for cool factor, those old drums are sweet looking, but I've hated every front drum bike I've ever ridden. I'm sure there are ways to upgrade; ventilate them and get modern shoes for them etc., but for me it's still not worth all the hassle just for a photo op.

Besides, my new front brake looks pretty sweet since VERSLAGEN drilled it for me!! And the whole bike is now VASTLY lighter weight and goes a thousand miles an hour!!

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by singlesgoinsteady on 06/20/12 at 07:53:54

My opinion is that if you do a massive front end conversion or even an improved front brake setup on the Savage/RYCA, you will be doing it for fun and looks (which is fine of course) only. However, the limitations of this machine are the frame. I just finished my RYCA and the front brake is plenty adequate for my 165 lb mug on a bike that was lightened approximately 50 lbs. To get high performance, you need to start with a high performance base, and the Savage is not it. You may sink a ton of money/time into something that makes the whole bike shimmy when you mash on stoppers that are 10x as powerful as the stock ones. Just some thoughts before you commit, undoubtedly you will already spend a lot more on the bike than the kit cost (I did) just monkeying around. I talked to the RYCA guys and they even said that the uprated springs they have make it rather stiff and bumpy and are overkill unless you're a big guy. Good luck if you do, let us know how it rides. p.s. if you upgrade the front brakes a lot, you need top quality rubber on it too, all stuff to ponder... -Dave

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by spacepirates on 06/20/12 at 10:56:38

2C363138333A2C383036312C2B3A3E3B265F0 wrote:

All in all, I would agree. You should not expect sportbike performance from a sportbike front end on the savage as it relies on the entire bike to function as a system. Will it improve front end suspension and braking? almost definitely, unless you somehow find forks less advanced then ours or buy forks from a pitbike or something. Will it improve front end suspension and braking to the point of being comparable to a sportbike? no.

my two big reasons for swapping the front end on my XS (and i'd do the same for the savage should i need to) was that it had pitted forks and solid rotor (not drilled) brakes that would fade into uselessness at the sight of rain. new forks would be ~$200 easy and drilled rotors would be anywhere from $40 for ebay parts or $80 new/drilled existing.

Also keep in mind that aside from musing about it or doing research, a front end swap is really quick. maybe two hours. undo the top triple clamp, take off the controls, slide the new front end in, put the controls on that. IF you've planned well. my swap has taken three months (and still going!) because of other projects interfering with time and I needed to sand/paint parts. that and the XS has a triple tree mounted instrument cluster which takes some finagling (technical term) to mount.

Title: Re: Different forks/front brakes for Savage / RYCA
Post by WD on 06/20/12 at 20:50:19

I had the TLS GT drum on mine for quite awhile. Looks great, stopped fine. BUT, and it is a BIG but, the stock rotor on mine has been a POS since day one. Wipes out brake pads (even EBCs) quick fast and in a hurry. Was tempered too hard according to the factory race mechanic at the dealership I bought it from. I tend to trust 20+ years of factory sponsored race experience.

IF you are going to swap to a drum... it's a pain in the a$$. Relocating the guts of the right bar switch. Adding an HD aftermarket throttle boss (think Panhead or Knucklehead era, 1936-64). Swapping your levers out for 1" Triumph or HD front drum units (have to swap clutch side too for looks). Finding a good reliner, since modern brake shoes are aluminum backed and you really want steel backs... and modern compounds suck, good luck finding some NOS asbestos linings (I have a source, kinda).

I swapped back to my stock front wheel. The GT drum is going on a vintage bike, a 1963 Honda that came with a TLS but at some point had a SLS swapped to the front (and TLS to replace the stock rear SLS). So I'll have TLS on both ends.

Next up on the list for my Savage? Early HD springer unit with a TLS or even a spool front wheel (no brake). Maybe an Earle's style front end (old BMW). I hate telescopic front ends.