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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1339053467 Message started by Davidoff74 on 06/07/12 at 00:17:43 |
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Title: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 06/07/12 at 00:17:43 Hi peeps! My Suzuki Savage 94 engine bogs down at high rpm. When applying full the throttle at a certain point the rpm goes fast up and the enginepower drops. Feels like the belt looses grip or something. (The condition seems worse right after start when the engine is not heated, but im not sure) Anyone got tips what to look for? Thx! [img][/img] |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by nuster on 06/07/12 at 02:49:37 Make sure there is a little slack in the clutch cable. I make sure I can wiggle a little slop at the clutch arm on the engine. There can be a little slop in the clutch hand lever and the cable, but if the lever on the engine case is "Tight" it can cause the clutch to slip. Many motorcycles with this type of arrangement have a threaded screw and lock nut to adjust this arm looseness/tightness. The LS650 DOES NOT. It has 3 different length push rods that replace an ajustable threaded rod. If the disks in the clutch have worn the stack up lentgh may have the pressure plate tight against your fixed length push rod and the external clutch arm. If the hand lever has some slack and the verticle part of the cable at the engine has some slack you should be able to wiggle the arm on the engine case. If it has no slop then the clutch actuator/cam has no slack inside the engine case. Check the forum about proper oil relating to wet clutch action. A clutch that is on the boarder of slipping will slip at full load in 5th gear rather than the lower gears. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 06/07/12 at 05:09:27 Thx man! I will take a look at the clutch tonight and keep you guys posted :) |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 07/25/12 at 04:52:27 Replaced springs, clutch friction plates and oil, the problem is still there. When i loosen the clutch all the way on the cable the clutch seems to grab a bit more. I got myself a set of pushrods (three lenghts). I need a shorter one mounted for the clutch to grab more?? [img][/img] |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/12 at 07:48:54 reading material for you... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1270678838/0 |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Dave on 07/25/12 at 10:15:50 6D7E6968777A7C7E752A1B0 wrote:
I just read that entire thread..........Now I got a headache! :o |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 07/30/12 at 02:06:37 Ok thx! i changed the push rod for a longer one but problem is still there. Will try to install the shortest one tonight. If this dont work i wil try to clean the disks as described in the linked thread. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Oldfeller on 07/30/12 at 04:55:37 You do understand that you are moving the arm intentionally between the high and low marks on the case, right? Not "just putting a rod in" and then "trying another rod" later? |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Routy on 07/30/12 at 05:10:39 4B435314515D15250 wrote:
From this, why would I think it was a clutch slippage prob ? This is a poor description at best. Mite this be what you are trying to say ? "My engine speeds up, but my bike doesn't" If this anything close to what you should have said, then you really do have a clutch problem. And just so you know, a worn clutch would require a shorter rod, not longer. And if the longer one didn't make the problem worse, then the rod is not the problem |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Oldfeller on 07/30/12 at 05:17:41 Routy, he says he just replaced his clutch plates, springs, etc So now you got all the entire range of "not put back together right" issues to deal with. ================ Questions for Davidoff74 What sort of oil do you use. Brand & weight pls. Have you EVER used any form of oil additive, if so -- what ?? Do you maintain a nickle's thickness of free play gap in the joint of your clutch lever to the housing? |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Routy on 07/30/12 at 05:22:36 Quote: So now you got all the entire range of "not put back together right" issues to deal with. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only if its a clutch problem to begin w/ From his description, I'm not convinced of that. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Oldfeller on 07/30/12 at 05:49:36 Nor am I. This one does not talk, he just gives you a listing of the things he's fiddled with since the last time he posted. Got no evidence he reads the stuff you sent him to look at either. If I were to help him, I'd tell him TO STOP working on "stuff", take a deep breath and carefully describe what the heck he's talking about. He's got clutch on the brain right now though, so he'll keep fixing it randomly until he breaks it. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 07/30/12 at 06:38:16 Hi Guys. Sorry for not posting my progress so often :( The engine RPM goes up but not the speed of the bike. That is correct. After reading just a part of the linked thread (facepalm) i decided to try switching the push rod for a longer one. The problem now seems worse that before i think. Need to do some more testing before im sure. I must admit that i have not checked the clutch lever against the markings on the clutch cover som im not sure where it stands at this point. Not even sure if it lever is in the marked operating zone (feels like a noob but due to little time this whent a bit fast). The lever got a good slack. It moves up and down like 0,5 -0,7 cm when i pull it with my hand. I will sure slow things down. I will check status of the clutch lever position first thing when i get back home from work today, and let you know! I have changed oil 2 times after i bought the bike this spring from the prevoius owner. I bought the oil from the local Suzuki dealer 10w 40 so it should be the right one. Dont know what the previous owner added to the bike. I did change the springs and friction plates but not the steele plates. Mistake? If it is not a clutch problem what else could it be?? any tips what to look for? Anyways. Thx for helping out and again sorry for late response! |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Routy on 07/30/12 at 06:57:23 Quote: The engine RPM goes up but not the speed of the bike. That is correct. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Now we know its a clutch problem. But a longer rod would only make it worse,.......if the problem is lack of slack ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/30/12 at 09:57:10 Which rod is in it doesnt make it slip or keep it from slipping, thats just how to Best set it up so the load on the throwout "paddle" is right. No slack in the clutch cable? Thats a problem, You Have to be able to wiggle your clutch lever with NO effort, What oil you got in it? |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Oldfeller on 07/30/12 at 18:12:18 Justin, go up three posts and READ it -- I can't be getting on the boy's case about not talking if you aren't reading when he does talk. ========= Davidoff74, the flat chromed steel clutch lever on the right hand clutch case must be within the marks on the gearcase main housing -- if you get it in the middle or thereabouts of that two mark zone then STOP -- you are done with the internal clutch work. Your clutch lever must have free play in it, we commonly say "a nickel's thickness in the gap between lever and housing" -- this should be non-tension loose free play. It guarantees your clutch gets let out all the way. Your clutch should disengage and reengage within the outer 2/3 to 1/2 of a full grip motion. This engagement is adjusted with the clutch cable threads and lock nuts (right above the lever we were talking about). Tell us when all of the above are done. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/30/12 at 20:05:39 I musta missed what kinda oil is in it,, okay,, Im out,, you guys help him,, |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 07/31/12 at 01:45:38 Hi guys. Checked the position of the clutch rod yesterday. It was positioned far below the operating zone (the marks). I changed the longest rod to the shortest one and the result if much better. Now it operates within the marked zone. Problem now is that i got to much slack on the clutch lever on the "stearing wheel" but its rideable. If i thighten this one (on the stearing) the rod on the clutch cascet moves up and out of position again. Perhaps i need the middle pushrod after all (or a shorter cable?) :) Il do some more adjusting tonight and let u know. I got full power now at 1-3rd (0-80km/h) gear and ok on 4-5. I thinks it still slips a bit on the higher gears but not a big deal. Perhaps this is normal? Im using the following oil at the moment: 1 x Silkolene Super 4 10W/40 Syntetforsterket mineralolje 4L(Silkolene Super 4 10W/40 Synthetic enhanced mineraloil 4L) Thx for the help guys, you are the best! ;D Adding a small link to a youtube video of my Savage project for the fun of it if you wanna have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASBTUEoAnSA |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Oldfeller on 07/31/12 at 03:44:35 Your clutch cable as a cable has two adjustment points, one on the handle bars and one on the top of the gear case near the chromed lever you have been fiddling with. If you are "out of adjustment room" on these cable adjustment points then your chrome lever position and pushrods are not right. You did not need the new clutch plates -- we have never had a worn out clutch yet here on the list. What you needed to do was (and still is) to properly adjust the clutch cable and the pushrods. UNHOOK THE CABLE COMPLETELY, then get the chromed lever between the marks on the gear case using the pushrods. Use a rubber band to put the proper slight "up" force on the chromed lever while doing this pushrod adjustment. Then hook the cable back up and adjust it for correct amount of clearance slack measured by the "nickel thickness" test. Your lever must always have some small amount of slack, or it does not allow the clutch to engage all the way. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 07/31/12 at 04:50:28 Thx Oldfeller! Nice tips on adjusting the cable! Will do so tonight! I think we will have a happy ending on this clutch problem after all :) ;D |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 08/01/12 at 03:07:59 Hi Adjusted the clutch after the tips i got an everything is fine now, still feels like clutch slipping little bit on the higher gears and a bit more when the bike is cold. Could it be the oil or that i need to clean the clutch plates? Anyone know a oil type that we know is optimal for the little Savage?? Thx |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 08/07/12 at 06:32:28 Hi Anyone know a oil type that we know is optimal for the little Savage?? Thx |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by bill67 on 08/07/12 at 06:45:56 Any synthetic motorcycle oil is best for the S40 motor and gear box.Klotz is my favorite. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Charon on 08/07/12 at 07:08:03 You would likely be well served by either Shell Rotella 15W-40 conventional oil, or Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 synthetic. Both are JASO MA rated, which Suzuki recommends for the S40. Both are available on the shelf at Walmart stores, although in my local store only the 15W-40 is available by the quart. Both are available in gallon jugs. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/12 at 07:13:36 First install may not get it, go cheap, get the rotella white jug. If you have to dump it in 100 miles, you wont cry. & Its plenty good oil, |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by bill67 on 08/07/12 at 09:04:11 Get a real Motorcyle oil and you want have to dump it 100 miles,Notice all the people on here having troubles. use motorcycle oil made for motorcycles and you want have troubles. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/12 at 09:22:21 Bill,, He mite need to flush it once,, even with your needlessly expensive oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by bill67 on 08/07/12 at 09:27:42 7D565F4C51503E0 wrote:
All motorcycle oils are JASO MA rated,Suzuki recommends using High performance motorcycle oil. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Oldfeller on 08/07/12 at 09:39:46 2C27222278794E0 wrote:
All motorcycle oils are JASO MA rated,Suzuki recommends using High performance motorcycle oil.[/quote] Bill, you know better. Suzuki recommends using Suzuki Brand oil, which is not high performance anything. Suzuki Brand is a standard 1,000 ppm ZDDP package dino or synthetic oil WHICH DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH ZDDP for the flat tappet rocker system in the Savage engine. Use the Rotella T in the white jug --- Justin has a good point, you may be changing it fairly quickly. If you like synthetic oil, use the Rotella T-6 in the blue jug. Justin, you were the head of the Kangaroo Kourt that convicted Bill for giving bad recommendations to newbies that last time --- what was that sentence he was given again? |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by bill67 on 08/07/12 at 09:52:39 Shell makes motorcycle oil you can't buy in the USA,Shell Advanced Motorcycle oil,Look it up they tell you right on there that motorcycle are a lot harder on oil than cars,so that why you should use motorcycle oil only.OF you should know better. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by bill67 on 08/07/12 at 09:59:16 I use Klotz Hi Performance TechiniPlate MX4 15w/50 their Zero wear oil. IN the BLACK bottle. |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by SALB on 08/07/12 at 10:41:29 [All motorcycle oils are JASO MA rated,Suzuki recommends using High performance motorcycle oil.[/quote] Unless they're rated JASO MB! Be careful what you get, the new MB is energy conserving and not meant for wet cluch applications! ::) |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 08/08/12 at 03:29:58 Ok thx guys! |
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Title: Re: suzuki savage Engine bogs down high rpm Post by Davidoff74 on 09/15/12 at 15:48:44 Hi guys im back. here is the end of my clutch problem story and what i discovered. I changed the whole clutch and oil but the problem was still there. I realized that som days the clutch seemed fine and other days it slipped again. After inspecting the clutch closer i noticed that the small pin locking the clutch release arm actually was so long that it in some cases crashed into the clutchcover preventing the clutch to move freely. After cutting this one the clutch problem is gone :) Dont know if my pin was longer than normal or a stock part. [img][/img] |
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