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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> What usually goes bad on the transmission? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338525938 Message started by mjs3790225 on 05/31/12 at 21:45:37 |
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Title: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by mjs3790225 on 05/31/12 at 21:45:37 Has anyway had any experience with degraded transmission performance? You'll first have to forgive me as a relatively new rider and owner, but I'll do my best to try and make sense. Anyway... Is there any common problems I should be on the lookout for the transmission? My 96' Savage has about 19,000 miles on it. I bought it used last year and have but about 1,500 on it myself. But I've always felt that the transmission may be a little weird on it. Mainly, I find myself usually having to double tap it into 5th. Sometimes it goes straight it, but usually not. I generally try to shift to 5th at about 45mph. Usually what ends up happening is the first tap will make it go about halfway in, and then the second or third time I can really feel the shift lever move all the way back. It never really makes a solid sound to confirm it either. When shifting down from 5th to 4th, I sometimes have to double tap it as well like its getting caught up on something. 3rd gear always feels nice any direction. 1st to 2nd seems loose and grindy, but maybe I should just get into a habit of shifting at a lower speed there. And when going from 2nd to 1st, I'll get a lot of winding noise with the clutch pulled in and coasting- especially at higher speeds (like downshifting all the way coming up to a red light or stop sign and coasting in). Still runs so that's a good thing I guess haha! =) But was just hoping maybe someone had some input on this. Long road trip planned for July, don't want to get stuck out who the heck knows where lol. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by Serowbot on 05/31/12 at 22:26:44 Generally, bulletproof... Check that the shift level is adjusted to your foot... and that the connecting rod isn't bent... Problems are usually related to that area,.. or, learning curve... It is a bit clunky into first... I think Jap engineers leave it that way to make it more Harley like... ;D... |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/12 at 23:18:32 My 96' Savage has about 19,000 miles on it. If it hasnt had a cam chain, its time to look in at it. & if that dude goes, it usually wrecks the engine. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by mjs3790225 on 06/01/12 at 00:39:00 Thanks Serowbot, I'll look into that rod business soon to cover all options. =) justin_o_guy2, as far as I know, nothing has been done with the cam. And actually today, I noticed a small ticking sound I didn't recall before (been off the bike the last few weeks due to hospital drama). Reading through lots of posts here, I cam across the cam threads, and the whole tension thing. Is it true running low on oil can accelerate this problem? I think I may have been running a bit low as of late (wasn't expecting to add as much oil as I did today) =/ At any rate, that led me to the "VerSlavy" mod. Kind'a thinking that may be a good thing to get done right about now. And heck, with a week or so turn around on that, that would give me plenty of time to patch together an HID headlamp kit and write up another How-To! A possible win-win I'd say XD |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/01/12 at 06:27:49 Is it true running low on oil can accelerate this problem? Low oil accelerates every problem I can think of on the inside of an engine. Man, you really otta park that thing till you know what shape the tensioner is in. If it comes out, youre a pedestrian. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by mjs3790225 on 06/01/12 at 14:51:41 I think I'm gonna take your advice up on that. Worst part right now is that it's raining just about every day where I am, and I have no garage. Gonna talk to my roommates and hope they don't mind it being parked inside the apartment for a week or so while I get the parts swapped out. Lol, who am I kidding, they don't have a choice ;) |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by 360k+ on 06/01/12 at 17:06:06 Unlike cars, motorcycle transmissions don't employ synchromesh, per se. Instead, they use a concept based on gear dogs, which are robust protruding steel nodes attached to the sides of individual gears. When shifting, these dogs "mesh" with each other ensuring the gears are spinning at the same speed before meshing their teeth. This is why your transmission doesn't grind when shifting. However, the shift process is rather violent when compared to smoother car transmissions because the dogs kinda slam into each other producing the "kerclunk" sound you hear. Those times when the shift cannot complete is because the dogs have lined up in such a way that they are pushing against each other and can't mesh. Simply easing up on the pressure (on the shifter) for a fraction of a second and re-trying will make the dogs spin slightly and give another opportunity to engage. One of the things I am disappointed about on my 2009 is the 5th gear ratio. Instead of increasing the ratio and making it a "hiway gear" like an overdrive, Suzuki chose to make 5th very close ratio to 4th. This makes any 5th gear benefit almost nil. Here are my ratio's... 1st: 2.333 2nd: 1.578 3rd: 1.142 4th: 0.956 5th: 0.884 The percentage of gear ratio increase from 4th to 5th is only 8%. I don't know about older models (I think early ones were only 4 speeds), but on the newer bikes shifting between 4th and 5th is scarcely noticeable. To translate, if you're turning 4000 RPM in 4th and shift to 5th, you are only going to drop 320 RPM. It would be interesting to see the torque and HP curves to see what advantages might be gained. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by ralfyguy on 06/01/12 at 17:34:04 This is most likely due to that the Savage is actually not supposed to be a highway cruiser. You can use it there, but the concept was more about being a commuter bike. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by 360k+ on 06/01/12 at 20:15:25 677479736C72606C150 wrote:
I know, but since 5th is only marginally useful it would have been nice if Zuk would have considered making it a high HIGH gear, for lower RPM and better gas mileage. It would be intended for flat terrain cruising, like interstates. If you start to go uphill, no biggie, just downshift to 4th. BMW did this on some of their models going from 5 to 6 speed trannys. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by mjs3790225 on 06/01/12 at 21:49:36 Thanks for that really great explanation 360+; starting to feel a bit better about things =) Yeah, I def agree on that whole deal about 5th not giving much more. I don't suppose anyone has ever tried a gear swap of any kind? I really have no idea if that is possible, so just ignore me for being lolz if so. I, however, AM planning on trying that Kawasaki front pulley upgrade to get a more beneficial gearing. Have it sitting in a box, just waiting around to get milled down. Dang I really need to find a friend soon! haha! XD Moving the bike indoors Sunday to prep the tear open! |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/02/12 at 04:46:46 Why not get the parts first,,limit the Indoor Parking time. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by Routy on 06/02/12 at 04:57:38 I don't think about it much, but I have learned when shifting up, to hold upward pressure on the gearshift untill I dump the clutch. Right or wrong, some times it won't complete the shift till the clutch gets dumped. I concider almost any issue w/ the tranny to be normal. The 5th gear ratio ?? IMO, this motorcycle doesn't have enuff hp to pull a taller gear. It wouldn't make any sense to have a taller 5th gear if you're going to ride in 4th nearly all the time. At 50-60 mph, flat road, no headwind, it could use a taller 5th gear. I myself am in 4th gear 90% of the time as it is. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by bill67 on 06/02/12 at 05:07:04 I had a GR 650 Suzuki that turned 4700 rpm in high at 60 mph,Change the sprockets to turn 3700 rpm at 60 mph,Loved it never had a problem in 28000 miles being geared 1000 less than stock.Best mpg on at trip 68.Yes as for as I'm concerned Suzuki really screwed up on the gearing. |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/02/12 at 05:45:35 Yep,, pretty much wasted the space in the tranny with that 5th gear ratio. It should be a higher gear, high enough that it wouldnt pull a good hill or a long grade w/o a downshift, Otta be able to lope it down the road at 70 with far fewer RPM happening. Take some Scientific explorations to determine just how tall that gear could be, but an 8% difference between 4th & 5th? KInda silly, IMO. Weve seen gearing changes around here. Rowboat has one. Hey, dude, chime in, whats the overall change in RPM & performance? I know youre not dissatisfied, |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by mjs3790225 on 06/02/12 at 14:22:56 Definitely gonna try some of this up shifting input about "holding up" next time I get on. Sounds like it could be a real winner! =D Quote:
Wow. DO WANT. Best mpg I've been able to get so far was 43. Granted, I haven't done too many calculations, and I've been making a lot of changes to the bike in between fill ups, so I don't think its super accurate to call it anything yet. My goal is to hit that wonderful sounding 50mpg mark. Def hope to get back out of the the high 30's real soon. X_X |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by Serowbot on 06/02/12 at 14:53:02 293630372A2D1C2C1C24363A71430 wrote:
With oversize rear tire 140/90-15 (4%) plus 25 tooth pulley ((8%)... I'm runnin' 12% over geared total... 5th gear will pull over 50mph... and I like that... 60mph is a nice lazy lope... ... but,.. I would prefer the 1 through 4 to be stock... To me,.. they are now a bit too tall... I find myself winding out each gear a little higher than I used to, in order to hit the powerband of the next gear... ... but,.. I'm so used the old gearing (6 yrs)... If I had just bought the bike this way originally, I'm not sure if it would be bothersome... It's a fun change to try though... I'm also getting a belt whine I didn't have before.... been foolin' with that some... Been messin' with belt alignment, and tension.. and tried a spacer behind the pulley... Belt is already angled, and smoothed... pulley seems to run very true... I'm beginning to wonder if the belt sets a memory to the curve angle as it breaks in... Anyway... 5th gearing is great... but would be better with 1 through 4 stock... ;)... Pardon my highjack... PS.. If you want to play with gear/tire ratio's... see here... http://www.gearingcommander.com/ |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by mjs3790225 on 06/02/12 at 22:07:21 Quote:
Totally fine! Love this gearing info! =D |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by BuckRYCA on 06/03/12 at 06:53:03 What's gone bad on my transmission are the splines on the main (output) shaft where they mate with the splines on the drive pulley. Previous owner pulled the engine to fix the head cap leak, and removed the drive pulley. Apparently did not torque it properly (95 ft-lb) on re-install. Even though splined lock washer was in place properly, the pulley's retaining nut backed off. Result was that the pulley splines were destroyed and the shaft splines were damaged. Over 7K more miles the shaft splines are now completely gone. It took three breakdown failures for the splines to wear away entirely. First time repair was new pulley and Loctite 660, and second time MIG welding to builld up splines and to weld pulley to shaft. Each repair lasted only about 4K miles. Morale of story: As Cylmers states, every 4000 miles check the drive pulleys for tightness. Pull the front pulley cover, remove the splined lock washer and retaining nut, inspect front pulley splines and replace the pulley if there's any play at all, replace splined lock washer, put a torque wrench on the pulley retaining nut and tighten to the correct torque. Replacing transmission output shaft is expensive! If you buy a used bike with more than 4000 miles on it as I did, do the check right away! http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/120469.png (http://www.fuelly.com/driver/r1b2h/cs1) |
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Title: Re: What usually goes bad on the transmission? Post by mjs3790225 on 06/06/12 at 18:09:06 Oh gosh X_X That sounds terrible.... duly noted. Well, finally got that cam chain adjuster thing looked at. 20mm. Looks like the fun as begun.... =/ |
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