SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Squids. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338317827 Message started by Wolfman on 05/29/12 at 11:57:07

Title: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 05/29/12 at 11:57:07 Son in law is one of those types that asks a question about something he doesn't know then tells you your wrong and/or argues about it. Always implying he's experienced as me or more so in most things in life. Im almost 52 for christ sake! He's about 24. Got the bug to buy him a bike and bought a GZ250 10 days ago and did the question thing. Of course i got the argument thing. Wanted to feel the wind in his face so only going to wear a brain bucket. Couldn't wait to ride and from what i gathered rode all over without a license plate or license. His bike experience was riding dirt bikes and quads off rode. Tried to instill confidence in me telling me how good he was at jumping quads across creeks(and wrecking them) riding on two wheels(side not wheelie) etc etc. Guess he rode it 70 some miles back and forth to work a couple of time without his license. I had hoped the 250 would give him some good experience time to learn. Came over last night with his 'NEW' bike. Said the 250 was going to get him killed, to under powered. Honda Shadow 600vlx he had bought the day before. Been re-jetted, after market muffs etc. Not a stock bike. Already wanting to make major changes, different muffs(straight pipes) ape hangers etc. Had my 30 year old daughter(his wife) on the back who had sworn she was done riding bikes after he crashed a quad and buggered up her knee and his leg(jumping a creek two up on a sport quad.) He's had his beginner permit 4 days, owned the bike two. She's refused to ride with me up till now with 3 years back on a bike??? Tried to talk some sense to him but got the usual argument and "you don't know what your talking about". Guess he's got a couple of buddies at work he listens to. Took me a minute to figure out what he was talking about when he mentioned demon bells. Told me NO ONE calls em gremlin bells. :o Two finger wave don't mean keep the rubber side down. Got all kinds of argument about everything. Bragged about being able to balance the bike upright at a stop for 4 seconds without putting his feet down. AND about being able to lock in the cruise control and set back with his hands behind his head while riding. Trying to impress me with his "skill and safety??????" Biggest pill was when i told him he wasn't experienced enough to be riding two up. Especially as he had been on a street bike less then 10 days and had a brand new bike(to him) to learn its little characteristics on. Said he was experienced enough????? My only real hope is when he eats that suv or rolls into the curve to hot and stands it up after locking the brakes up is he's on the bike alone. Of course he's one of those that won't crash, to experienced. ::) I give him 30 days if he rides two up much, maybe 90 if he rides solo before he puts it down. Tried to get him to come in here or to another beginner site to ask the same questions he was arguing with me about. Hasn't done it, don't need to. Just talked to a couple of guys at work and i don't know where they get their info. I mean demon bells among other things?? The only real bight side is God is supposed to watch over fools and small children. He's got to fall in there somewhere. But he definitely fits the Squid bill. Just wish the daughter was still swore off bikes. It's worry city now. >:( :(

Title: Re: Squids. Post by splash07 on 05/29/12 at 12:14:56 I remember when I knew everything, now I only know a little bit about a lot of stuff. I got my first bike (suzuki savage that I still have today) when I was 18 and put it down within the first couple hours. I would do everything in my power to keep your daughter off that thing till he wrecks once or twice on his own and learns his lesson.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by weracerc on 05/29/12 at 12:19:41 sorry to hear your daughter is stuck in the middle on this deal - but as Forrest Gump says "Stupid Is as Stupid Does"....referring to your son in law - you are correct he will learn the hard way, hopefully while riding solo.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 05/29/12 at 12:53:31 He!! when i was 24 i KNEW i didn't know everything. I usually listened to dad because i KNEW he had a LOT more experience being twice my age. But then i was told i was mature for my age the way i had been raised. S-I-L never really had a dad and ive tried to kind of fill that void. But the boy don't listen, he's to "worldly and experienced." Said i don't give him enough credit. Told him he needed to learn to listen and learn from someone with a LOT more experience. Got the Argument. Im about to flat give up on him. Daughter should know better. Im going to try and get her alone and give her a good talking to. Probably wont help. He gave about 300 more then blue book retail for the bike when he should of give about 300 less. At least its a 600 shadow. Only reason he probably didn't go bigger like a 1000 or 1200 is cost. Wants to go riding together but i don't think thats going to happen anytime soon. Followed him home the day he brought the 250 home and he was trying to ride above his abilities on that. Couldn't hold his line, didn't notice trouble spots in the road like a BIG spill of something in his lane to avoid, to fast into the curves etc. Tried to talk to him after the ride and basically was told i didn't know what i was talking about. He was SAFE and GOOD??? I don't care to watch him lose it and have to pick up the pieces afterwards. Especially if the oldest is on there with him. Id already told her to take out a $10,000 life insurance policy on him to cover burial. Told the youngest she was NOT to get on for a ride with him for NO reason. Threatened my unending wrath if she did. She's smart enough she said no way no how. And she's a lil speed junkie that LOVES the twisties...lol Wears her gear to. I got a knot in my head and in my gut hopeing the cell phone don't ring. Just hope he lives through his first crash and is SMART enough to LEARN from it. Though i doubt that. That and he's riding solo.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Greg on 05/29/12 at 12:56:59 I am sorry you are going through this. I know it's not the same, but my daughter rides passenger on a HD with a guy on so many pain pills his speech slurs. I had some control for a while but now she moved out and knows everything. I sure hope both of our daughters stay safe.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 05/29/12 at 13:24:03 Mine just had to drive her hubby back and forth to work the last two days because his leg was hurting so much he was afraid to drive himself. Leg he hurt in a quad crash. Yet he thinks he's safe? Go figure. Pain meds suck and your daughter should know better. I wont even ride if im real groggy from lack of sleep or a major headache. Or if that lil voice says its not a good day to ride. Its usually right. I had a LOT of dirt bike experience from my younger days and i been riding my quad for about two years when i got back on a bike. I blame the quad for stirring old memories...lol Still i was smart enough to look for and read everything i could on beginner bikes and getting back into street riding. Did the permit thing for a month then aced the driveing test for the reg license. Easier then i thought it would be. I still hate city driveing though, to many blind cage drivers yacking on their cell phones. I REALLY REALLY HATE cell phones! I know my limitations and ride within them and that riding is a continuous learning experience. 3 years and 10,000 miles and i still consider myself a beginner....lol Though i am about ready to move up to an 800 or 1000cc bike for some longer trips and 2 up. Way i ride i don't want nor need much more then that. I did see one i fell i love with the other day though. Import. Honda VS700T touring bike. But at $11,000 i don't see one anytime in my future...lol Im d@mn sure not ready for a 1500 or 2000cc cruiser or supersport...lol

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Starlifter on 05/29/12 at 19:12:15 OMG, I fear for your daughter's safety, even her life. Buy her the very best gear you can get her to wear FF helmet etc. Have her read these reports...good luck. A road rash victim's story (a girl) http://sportbike.natkd.com/road_rash.htm Then have her read the story below. It's a first hand report of a motorcycle accident. One second of inattentive riding and something like this can happen. ____________________________________________ There were four of us, riding three motorcycles, out for a ride in the country. Elaine, Road Captain, was in the lead on her Honda Magna (700 cc's), riding in the 'left track'. Karen Miller was in the 'slot' (right track) riding her Honda Shadow (500 cc's), and I was riding 'drag' (last) on my Honda GoldWing (1200 cc's) and carrying a guest from Canada, Judy, as a passenger. We had been on the road since 11:15 that morning and were on the return leg of the trip. It was a clear, though nippy day (60 degree's) with mild traffic on the country road at the time. The road had many gentle curves to it and nobody seemed to have any difficulty negotiating them. We typically drove at posted speed limits and were at approximately 55 MPH at the time of this accident. I mentioned that Karen was riding in the 'slot' position. We do this with all new members to our group because it is the safest position and we watch how they handle themselves in the group before letting them take any other position. This position keeps the newer drivers as far away from a potential head-on collision as possible. All three bikes had just come out of a mild right turning curve. Road conditions were nearly perfect with the exception that the lanes seemed to be slightly narrower than one might expect. A white pickup truck was approaching us traveling at somewhat below normal speed in the opposite lane. As we completed the curve I noticed that Karen was in the left track rather than the right one (not unusual after negotiating a curve), but instead of moving to the right to get back into the 'slot', she seemed to be aimed directly for the white truck. She had apparently 'target fixated' (locked her eyes on that truck) and panicked. She (very quickly) crossed the centerline in the road (by about 6 inches) and was headed for a head-on with the truck (she was leaning towards the right, but the bike kept moving leftwards - counter-steering totally forgotten!) when the driver of the truck took very aggressive action to try to avoid the accident and pulled it sharply to the right. This successfully avoided a head-on collision, but Karen still sideswiped the truck, hitting it at it's left-front quarter-panel, and all along its left side from front to back. The combined speed at impact was in excess of 90 MPH. The impact was heard by Elaine who was two seconds ahead of Karen, myself (two seconds behind Karen), and all the neighbors in the area. Karen's bike did an instantaneous 90 degree bounce off the truck (towards the right), and ended up on the right shoulder of the road pinning her right leg under it. The bike appeared to have exploded (it didn't actually explode) when it hit the truck with pieces of metal, windscreen, and plastic all over the road. The truck continued moving towards the shoulder of its lane, aided by the force of the impact, and ended up in a ditch having run into a culvert. The driver of the truck sustained facial lacerations from a broken front window, and his passenger appeared unhurt. Karen, meanwhile, had suffered massive body trauma during the accident. Her left leg was peeled open (literally shredded) from hip to lower leg, compound fractures in several places both above and below the left knee, several ribs on the left side had been broken and punctured her left lung, her liver was 'fractured' as apparently was her spleen, and her diaphragm had been pierced. It appears (judging from a look at her helmet after the fact) that she had landed on her face and skidded to a stop in the dirt/gravel that was the shoulder of the road. The bike was on its right side, rear-lights still on, dripping gasoline from a ruptured tank. Karen was face down, her right leg, from the knee down, under the right saddlebag, her left leg was above the motorcycle, pointed at an impossible angle towards her head, bootless, and her left thigh bone (from her hip) was protruding through her clothes for a length of over an inch. We inspected her for signs of bleeding, and though we saw plenty of blood, there seemed to be very little of it ongoing that would require some means to control it and we simply would not move her for fear of greater damage. Karen was moaning loudly and regularly, obviously in great pain. Her breathing was irregular and shallow. Just after the accident I announced to Elaine, via CB, "Karen's down!", and she pulled her bike off the road to the right, then made a U-turn and returned to the scene. I, meanwhile, clamped down on both brakes, avoiding debris that was all over the road, and brought my bike to a stop just past where Karen lay, had my passenger get off the bike, and disembarked myself. Though my passenger was first to reach Karen, she was of no help whatever. She (Judy) was in shock and was hugging herself in grief. I was next to reach Karen. Three other men reached her within a matter of seconds after I did. We determined that Karen was alive, that an ambulance was needed immediately, and that she was breathing. One of them wanted to move her (gasoline was spilling out of the tank), and was out-voted instantly. No attempt was made to remove her helmet, though that had also been suggested by one of the other men and out-voted just as quickly. EACH ONE OF THOSE THREE MEN, AS WELL AS MYSELF, ANNOUNCED THAT HE WAS CPR TRAINED AND COULD PROVIDE ASSISTANCE!!!!!!!!!!! Elaine (also CPR and First Aid trained) got there and was asked to call 911. Her cellular phone was on my bike and she went to make that call attempt (unsuccessfully - out of range). A neighbor, however, confirmed that a call had already been placed. I announced to Karen that she had been in an accident, that help was on its way, that she was going to be all right, and asked her to try not to move until they arrived. Two of the other men then took over a 'head watch' - that is, they got down on their hands and knees and continued to reassure Karen while protecting her head from movement of any kind. I then did a close inspection of the rest of Karen's body looking for a major bleeding condition. Even though her thighbone was completely broken and protruding from her pants, (two inches of bone having been amputated by the impact), she had miraculously not severed the major arteries in her leg and there was not major external bleeding that I could see. I went back to my bike and got out my first aid kit, latex gloves, triangle bandages and breathing mask and took them over to Karen. As there was clearly blood all over the motorcycle and under Karen, I elected to put the latex gloves on. However, I was in rather a lot of confusion myself at the moment and found (I actually watched myself doing it) that instead of opening the zip-lock bag that contained the gloves, I opened the breathing mask package instead. Realizing that I was confused, I put everything in my hands down on the ground next to Karen for use by the other men, and stepped away and began traffic control instead, kicking motorcycle parts off the roadway along the way. I asked one of the neighbors to get me a fire extinguisher, just in case, which she promptly did. Another brought a blanket from her house and covered Karen with it while we waited for the ambulance. The ambulance arrived within minutes (possibly five), though it seemed much faster than that at the time. The EMS team was professional in the extreme. At first sight of the extent of Karen's injuries one of the EMS techs instructed the other to order a life flight to the scene. He then told us we had to get the motorcycle off of Karen and four men helped me lift it while the EMS tech lifted her left leg and straightened it out as we got the bike away,( constantly talking to Karen, acknowledging that it hurt and that he had no choice.) We admonished the EMS tech not to take her helmet off of her until she was in the ambulance, and he readily agreed. The EMS tech cut significant parts of Karen's clothing off of her to inspect her back and sides for trauma. A stretcher board was placed on the ground next to Karen and five people helped turn her on her back and onto the board - insuring that her head/helmet was supported as we did so. Again, this was very painful to Karen, and the tech gave her constant reassurance and acknowledged that we had to do it to get her to the ambulance. Karen's left leg was split open to the extent that no outside skin whatever was visible in this new position - only shredded muscle and bone - over a foot WIDE! A substantial amount of blood and gore was left on the ground where she had lain before being moved. On the other hand, even while on her back and with the injuries in full view, it seemed that there was not very much external bleeding going on at all. Nevertheless, Karen was bleeding heavily - internally. Elaine, in the meantime was comforting Judy, then she went to Karen's bike and collected all of her personal things from it. She (Elaine) then dealt with the investigating police officer who had arrived shortly after the ambulance. She also talked with the driver of the truck and tried to reassure the man that Karen would be OK. Indeed, she told him that his actions probably saved Karen's life. The man was terribly upset about the accident and was simply unable to approach the vicinity of Karen while we waited for help. Karen was then moved into the ambulance where substantial effort was made to ascertain the extent of her injuries and to assist her with her breathing. Karen apparently did not lose consciousness during the entire episode. The life flight helicopter landed in one of the neighbor's yards about fifteen minutes later. After what seemed like a long delay (they were trying to stabilize Karen in the ambulance and had to help her breath as her left lung was punctured), she was carried across the street and into the helicopter. It immediately took off and went to Hermann hospital with her. The accident took place at 3:30 and she was in the air on her way to Hermann Hospital by 4:10. Though still in shock herself, Judy agreed that she was confident enough and willing to remount my motorcycle as passenger for the trip back to my house where we would make arrangements. Elaine then took the lead and we drove the 70 miles or so to get to my home. Both Elaine and I worked our way back to being fully in control before we did this - a period of 30 minutes of talking, thanking all those that had helped, getting phone numbers of the neighbors, and collecting Karen's personal effects. We were in control, but far from being unaffected by what had just happened, so we drove with exceptional care and caution to my house. The fact that Karen had been riding with a full face helmet allowed her to survive the accident. We took possession of that helmet in the life flight waiting room at Hermann hospital. It was clear that Karen had ridden, face down, along the asphalt and gravel before coming to a stop. There was a cut over her left eye that her sunglasses caused when they broke, and some bruising at the back of her brain (later found to have been from a prior skiing accident years before), but nothing more was visible other than some mild bleeding coming out of her nose and mouth. The chin part of her helmet was nearly worn thru and there were deep scratches and abrasions on both sides of the helmet where her cheeks were protected. Part of the visor was shattered, but much of it was still attached to the helmet. At this moment Karen's condition is

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 05/29/12 at 20:45:23 She's 30 and listens maybe half the time. Not as responsible as id like. She kind of always got her way as her grandparents did a lot of her raiseing. Spoiled. Ive talked to her about helmets. She's decided she wants a 3/4 and will just wear glasses, no shield. No full face. Hopeing a BIG brown kamikaze beetle will smack her in the mouth and change her mind. Told her she needed a FF, good jacket and at least some chaps. In one ear and out the other. She had a leather jacket on but its one of those shorties thats more for looks then protection. He's wanting a skid lid(wearing a dirt bike helmet now) and only wear glasses. Bikes got a shield so 'he dont need a face shield'. Ex seen him today riding through town in just jeans and a t-shirt and no gloves. Its just eatting me up inside. Id love to beat some sense into both of them. Keep her off the bike for at least a month and make em both get some decent gear. Probably take em high sideing or t-boneing a cager to listen. Then its to late. My best hope is him over riding his minimal skill level and loseing it in a nice soft grassy ditch while alone. Otherwise its probably going to be nasty. Lightest i ride is boots, gloves, jeans, FF and good denim jacket. Cool/cold weather or interstate and its a leather jacket. I get a lot of razzing from other riders about wearing a jacket in 90+ heat but i tell em sweats a lot easier to deal with then road rash.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by mpescatori on 05/30/12 at 04:44:59 I feel for you, Wolfman. I too was one of the "Jeans & T-shirt" guys until I had my first big spill. T-boned a "pony express" delivery dispatch rider who had run a red light. I slammed on the brakes, locked the rear wheel, skidded sideways into him and fell underneath the bike. I also smacked my head HARD against the kerbside. My FF helmet saved my face (literally !!!) I kept that helmet for years as a talking piece, until we moved house and it went in the rubbish. The plain old (tough) jeans did what they could to save my hips from a bad fracture, but I still managed a big thick bruise which generated a permanent callous body on my right hip. In a bathing suit, it looks like one hip is wider than the other... I'm not surprised your SIL "knows everything". So did I, at 24. Then, at 25, I had one accident too many... and grew instantly wiser. The best I can wish your SIL is "may he learn to be wiser, and tell the story". All the best  ;) PS My wife never goes anywhere without her FF, her line is "better spend a minute brushing my hair (after taking off the helmet) than having nothing to brush, at all". :-*

Title: Re: Squids. Post by babyhog on 05/30/12 at 07:59:48 645C5F555E525D330 wrote: She's 30 and listens maybe half the time. Not as responsible as id like. She kind of always got her way as her grandparents did a lot of her raiseing. Spoiled. Ive talked to her about helmets. She's decided she wants a 3/4 and will just wear glasses, no shield. No full face. Hopeing a BIG brown kamikaze beetle will smack her in the mouth and change her mind. Told her she needed a FF, good jacket and at least some chaps. In one ear and out the other. She had a leather jacket on but its one of those shorties thats more for looks then protection. He's wanting a skid lid(wearing a dirt bike helmet now) and only wear glasses. Bikes got a shield so 'he dont need a face shield'. Ex seen him today riding through town in just jeans and a t-shirt and no gloves. Its just eatting me up inside. Id love to beat some sense into both of them. Keep her off the bike for at least a month and make em both get some decent gear. Probably take em high sideing or t-boneing a cager to listen. Then its to late. My best hope is him over riding his minimal skill level and loseing it in a nice soft grassy ditch while alone. Otherwise its probably going to be nasty. Lightest i ride is boots, gloves, jeans, FF and good denim jacket. Cool/cold weather or interstate and its a leather jacket. I get a lot of razzing from other riders about wearing a jacket in 90+ heat but i tell em sweats a lot easier to deal with then road rash. I understand your point from being her father, and I feel your pain. but instead of trying to demand what they wear, I'd rather see you teach him proper riding skills.  Everyone has their own belief about gear, so I'm not debating yours, but she will just resent what you try to push on her.  You have to offer suggestions, without being condescending, demanding, etc.  So calm the he11 down! lol  (just sayin', cause you know I luv you man)     Ask him questions of what he would do in certain circumstances, then teach him the correct action when he is incorrect.  Help them be better riders... best of luck, and safe riding to you all!    :-*

Title: Re: Squids. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/30/12 at 08:07:23 If they dont have some good insurance, they need it,. She should stay off the bike with that self absorbed clown & he should have as big of a life insurance policy you can afford.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by 360k+ on 05/30/12 at 09:08:19 Nature has a way of weeding out dummies like this - it's all part of the natural selection process.  I just hope your daughter isn't on the bike when it happens.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by gcsdls on 05/30/12 at 12:38:27 I'd like to know how Karen is doing....

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 05/30/12 at 13:30:31 Piglet, ive tried to talk to him about riding skills and techniques. All i get is argument and squid talk about how good he is and how safe he is, how much quad and dirt bike experience.(hes good at crashing, i know that). Which then turns into bragging about jumping utility and sport quads across creeks while riding two up or riding on the two wheels on one side. Bets about how much better he is then i am etc. Of course he seems to forget about telling me before about how he crashed into a tree or wrecked said quad or dirt bike. Buggering up my daughters knee(still has problems) or banging his leg up bad(hence the daughter having to drive him to work recently). There's no talking sense to him, hence the anger, worry and sense of impending doom. Bragging about setting the cruise control and setting back with his hands behind his head while riding two up for the first time down the H-way doesn't instill confidence in me. Especially when he's only been on the street 8 days, had his permit 3 days and had the bike one day. And theres always that 'ive got as much or more experience then you' BS that i get so very very tired of. Boy seems to forget im better then twice his age. When they talk about  a squid vastly over estimating his/her skill, abilities and experience.....he's the poster boy. I did the one ride with him so i could give tips and critique his riding and at the end of the ride all i got was 'He WAS good.' That i didn't know what i was talking about, same old argument. Didn't matter that he didn't hold his line, missed a MAJOR spill in the road(didn't even see it), went into the curves to fast among other things. I don't want to ride with him because i don't want to watch him crash and have to pick up the pieces afterwards. The only up side is he didn't go for a1000cc cruiser or super sport. Thank god he couldn't afford one. Though that 600 shadow is plenty big enough to kill him. My main hope is i can talk or scare some sense into the daughter. One nice scathing e-mail about her intelligence and lack of safety consciousness last night then two others loaded with links to safety articles on two up riding and riding in general. Helmet info, gear info etc. And how fricking worried i was about her safety. Guess i ought to go see if she replied...lol

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Starlifter on 05/30/12 at 14:02:01 Okay gcsdls, here's Karen's story continued: At this moment (5:00 am Monday morning) Karen's condition is still critical. We do not yet know if they will be able to save her leg. The operating team noted that there was still a pulse in her lower left leg so there is a chance to save it. We have not yet heard of all the other life threatening injuries she sustained, nor have we determined if there was spinal injury. The best case scenario is that she will be in critical care and ICU for at least four weeks. It is possible that she will not survive at all. Karen is an active, strong and otherwise healthy woman in her late 40's with lots of spirit. These things may be what make a final difference. Tuesday November 14th To those of you that have expressed sympathies and shared prayers for Karen, I thank you deeply. Karen, whom I visited last night, is still not conscious, though she is not in a coma. She is sleeping from the medication that was used during her operations and is expected to regain consciousness today sometime. The jury is still out as to whether her leg will be saved, but there is a better chance of it today than yesterday. There has been other very good news as well. The bruise to her brain is an OLD injury, not related to her motorcycle crash this weekend. Her helmet did save her life, without question. Despite riding face down along the highway until she came to a stop on the gravel shoulder, the cut over her left eye (from her broken dark glasses) was the only injury to her head! Her neck X-rays confirmed no damage to it. Similarly, her spleen and liver seem to have responded very well to ice packing and cauterization. These, neither of them, appear life threatening any longer. This morning we will find out about other possible spinal injury. However, the doctors acknowledged that her back does not look like it was involved in an accident at all (not even scratched) so they are highly optimistic. Her color is nearly normal again, though she is puffed up like a balloon. I know it is hard for those of you that have not seen her to get a feel from just my words, but yesterday she was waxy of complexion, and pale gray. Today she is 'pinking up', as well as puffing up. It looks great!, by comparison. Though still critical, meaning anything could go wrong still, it is beginning to look like Karen's general health and good physical condition before the accident are making significant contributions to her improving condition. We should know either today or tomorrow if she will lose her leg. As an aside of note: Karen's boyfriend (Rob) was REQUIRED by Karen and the rest of us to take the MSF street rider course before he would be allowed to ride with us. It turns out that he was ATTENDING the MSF class when she had her accident!!! I met Rob at the hospital and have kept him fully informed (and he does the same for me) about Karen's condition. Rob advises that he is absolutely convinced that he will be riding with us, that Karen will also probably get back up on a bike, that her insistence that he buy a full-face helmet (which he did) was an omen and proof that she understands what safety is all about. He also said that 'target fixation' seemed to get unusual emphasis during his MSF class. For those of you that may now be inclined to give up that bike of yours because of the risks, consider this: "Of course we know that riding a motorcycle involves risks, we are not naive! But being risky does not mean that we take risks. For those of us that want to survive this experience, we want to know all about those risks so that instead of taking them, we manage them and avoid those we can avoid." So says Rob to a member of the family that does not ride and who became aggressively behaved at the hospital. Wednesday Novwmber 15th Today she was allowed to awaken, partially, and she was able to communicate. She does not remember the accident and was told only that she had been in a motorcycle accident and that she had broken her leg. That satisfied her and she went right back to sleep. They will awaken her again tomorrow and begin changing her pain killers. They are done working on her insides! They stitched her liver back together today, but have no idea if it will mend or not at this time. Her back was fine (not even bruised). No spinal injuries! They now are talking about some 20 additional operations over the next three weeks to repair her leg. It is not at all certain that they will be able to save it, but this talk implies that there is certainly hope. Thursday November 16 Hi, everyone... *takes deep breath* I was at the hospital last night to see Karen and get the day's news.. and will be there again this evening. Last night, the nurse advised that all surgery was complete for now on her abdomen for the internal injuries to her spleen, liver and diaphragm. Those organs now must be given time to heal, to see if the 'fix' will take. Today she was to have her left leg cleaned out again in the OR, which will be done perhaps 8 to 10 more times before any plan for reconstructive surgery on the leg can be carried out. She still has circulation in her toes, but the possibility of grafting and rebuilding the muscles and nerves of the upper leg cannot yet be determined. After this afternoon's surgery, she will be taken off sedatives and brought 'awake' for a while. A pain management team is due to make an assessment of how to best handle the long-term pain in her left leg, such as by giving her epidurals, etc. I expect she will start to be awake and mentally functional tomorrow or the day after...and next week, she'll start having to make decisions....... Friday November 17 It is like a different reality today. The doctors advise us that Karen will be off the respirator today since she did well without it for a few hours yesterday. Tests of her liver function are positive. There are signs that some internal healing is underway in her left leg -- they intend to keep it open and allow that healing to progress from the inside out in order to watch out for any possible pockets of infection. Then they told us that they intend to have her SITTING IN A CHAIR for visiting hours this evening! Finally, they told us that their original estimate of about four weeks in Intensive Care is no longer true - that, if she continues to improve as she has been lately, she will be out in less than two! This is one tough lady. That she was physically fit and healthy at the time of the accident is obviously a major factor that accounts for this rapid turn of events. Though the doctor was trying to be helpful, this turned out to be exaggeration in the extreme. I have been asked via e-mail to explain why it is that there was so much damage to Karen in this accident given that it was 'only a sideswipe'. Well, there is no such thing as a gentle hit at over 90 MPH, but that is only part of the answer. Karen hit and was compressed into the left front quarter-panel of the truck. The truck, because it had turned away from her, was at an angle and her momentum forced her to travel the entire length of the truck from front to back with increased pressure along the way. This compression pressure buckled the front quarter panel inwards several inches. The column where the door hinges are mounted did not compress and was over an inch farther out than that panel. Thus, Karen's leg was scraped by a one-inch wide piece of steel from top to bottom, at 90 MPH, and lost that depth of tissue as a result. It is believed that her left grip hit the truck first and snapped off at impact. This impact apparently caused the injuries to her left hand, abdominal area and left ribs. That the pressure continued to increase all along the side of the truck is evident by the fact that her left peg sliced the truck's left rear tire like a knife (on both sides of the wheel rim). I mean it sliced all the way through that tire's rubber leaving it flat. I am finished providing details of this accident here believing that all that can be gained by those of you reading them has been conveyed. I did not post these terrible details in an effort to cause discomfort, but to provide a sense of reality and awareness and respect for the awesome forces involved in an accident at highway speeds. If even one of you chooses to upgrade to a full-face helmet as a result, I am vindicated. If even one of you now knows how powerful 'target fixation' is and develops a mind set that insures your control of it, we might have a brother/sister rider on the road with us for years to come as a result. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title: Re: Squids. Post by gcsdls on 05/30/12 at 14:13:15 Thanks, Starlifter.  I appreciate hearing it...and I hope she's doing better now, as it seems the news was current as of November.  Was this 2011?

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Starlifter on 05/30/12 at 15:32:25 gcsdls, no this happened a few years ago. You seem interested in Karen's story. The accident blog goes on concerning her recovery, so I will continue the story for you and others who might be interested: Saturday November 18 In 35 years of riding this was only the second serious accident I have witnessed. The first was almost one year ago when another of the Lone Star Ladies (Evelyn) did a highside on an interstate road because her rear brakes locked. The second was Karen's accident in which she sideswiped a pickup truck. The first accident witnessed had the most significant immediate reactions on my part. I was two bikes behind her, Elaine was immediately behind her. When I saw Evelyn begin her skid a rush of adrenaline hit me instantly. A four-letter word left my lips (sh*t!) and then she did the highside. My thoughts raced from "Control stop this baby" to "Please don't let me hit Elaine" to "Evelyn's not going to survive this." All of the bikes in our tour who were behind Evelyn stopped before even reaching the point where she dismounted her bike, all without skid marks of our own or other incident. We managed to take care of her, get a 911 call placed, and to direct traffic around the accident as if we knew what we were doing. But, we were ALL confused! There was gasoline all over the road yet I, for example, lit a cigarette at the scene (quickly put it out, but that is an example of the personal confusion.) Mounting the bikes after seeing this accident was difficult for all of us. We did what we had to do, of course, but speeds were reduced, and knees wobbled (literally!) [Evelyn was not crushed in the accident. She suffered only a mild bruise to her head (helmet saved her life!), major rode rash, and a fractured bone in her left hand. Her bike was totaled. Three months later this gal had a new bike and did the same tour again (1,200 miles) in order to get over it.] I had flashbacks for months - seeing how her bike disintegrated as it spun over and over and high into the air. On the other hand, there was very little blood and no gore associated with this accident. Karen's accident was much the more difficult to see, but so far there has not been as much in the way of flashbacks in my mind. I will tell you that as I saw her cross the center-line and realized that an accident was imminent, that same four-letter word left my lips. The adrenalin rush was profound, again. When she hit the truck I had thoughts that ranged from "Oh, no - not again" to "Control stop this baby" to "I hope Judy (my passenger) does not go over my handlebars." I hit my brakes and my CB button at almost the same time and announced to Elaine that "Karen's down!", and weaved through the debris on the road to a stop just past where Karen landed on the right side of the road. I could have stopped even faster, but elected to park off the road so went past her. Again, no skid marks on my part and I stopped safely. Now, I here confess that there is about a one-second gap in my memory. That is, I saw her hit the truck and bounce TOWARDS the right. I next remember her hitting the ground and stopping, but I do not remember the transition. I believe it is part of the adrenaline rush and being focused ABSOLUTELY on bringing my bike to a safe stop. [Similarly, though I remember seeing Evelyn's bike skid, flip and bounce high into the air, tumble over three times and skid to a stop next to her, I cannot remember stopping my bike that time at all.] When I ordered my passenger to disembark, I said: "Get off the bike and see if you can help Karen!" It turns out that Judy had not witnessed the accident and did not even know that Karen was in trouble. She (Judy) thought Karen had a mechanical problem of some kind that forced her to have to pull off the road. When she saw Karen down with her leg pointed towards her head, Judy went instantly into shock. As Judy was getting off my bike I once again hit my PTT and repeated my message to Elaine: "Karen's down!" Meanwhile, Elaine had already pulled off the road and had responded to my first message, but I cannot remember her doing so. Upon getting to Karen's side I observed what I then assumed was her body partly under the bike, face down. Her left leg was pointed towards her head at an impossible angle. I went to her head and heard her groans. This was uplifting in the extreme! I now knew that she was alive and breathing. I knelt down at her head and told her that she had been in an accident, help was on it's way, that she would be alright, and asked her not to move. Three other men arrived almost at once as did Elaine. I asked Elaine, who got there shortly after these other men, to call 911. All three men announced that they were CPR trained and said that they could help. Two of them took over a head watch as I first inspected Karen for signs of serious bleeding then ran back to my bike for first aid gear and to help Elaine connect her cell-phone. Adrenaline was really pumping by now and I was once again getting very confused. [Again, to observers it appeared that we knew what we were all doing - but I assure you it was adlib as we went along.] Evidence of that confusion, as I said once before, was that in response to a decision to put latex gloves on I WATCHED MYSELF open the breathing mask package instead of the zip-lock bag containing the gloves. Remembering how confused I was a year earlier, I then knew I was confused again and decided to take the gear and deposit it all with the other three men for their use and go out and direct traffic. As it turns out, I only managed to retrieve my first aid kit after the accident - I forgot completely that the other equipment (breathing mask, triangle bandages, three sets of latex gloves) was still on the ground where I had left it. When we had to roll Karen over onto her back onto the stretcher board, I am very aware of seeing, up close, the open leg, and a pool of blood and gore on the ground. Elaine was standing right next to me at the time and I remember saying something stupid like: 'Talk about road rash!" (Quietly, nobody else could hear me - certainly not Karen.) I replayed the crash many times in my head while we waited for the ambulance, and then while we waited for the chopper. Since then, I have had to replay it to family members and other motorcyclists that have been more than a little curious. I have flashed on it a dozen times, but those images are fading fast now. Wobbly knees did not occur this time, at least for me. Flashbacks of the sight of her leg and the blood and gore are also fading fast. Strangely, I made myself some dinner the other night using some ground round. I was immediately reminded of the sight of that leg. Still, this seemed of academic interest to me then, rather than being troubling. At the hospital I was affected in a new way, totally unexpected. I became increasingly angry! I tried to find a person to put the blame of the accident on, other than Karen. I could not do so. It was entirely Karen's fault, but that, too, made me angry. "How could she do something so stupid?" "Look at how devastated her family and friends are! We will be affected for YEARS!" Things like that. This, of course, made me feel cheap and selfish and further drove me into a combined sense of anger and confusion. The hospital Chaplin picked up on my distress and put his arm around me to try to talk me down. I was then embarrassed - but that did not stop the first tear from running down my cheek. I slept badly the first night, but have had no trouble since then. Elaine has also reported being able to finally get over the incident in two ways: first, she reconstructed Karen in reverse. That is, in her mind she put Karen's leg back to the way it was before the accident. This made Karen a 'real person' again - meaning that with her leg exposed as it was, Elaine saw that Karen was very 'animal'. That humans tend to ignore the reality of their bodies normally is the point. So, she put Karen's body back the way it was, in her mind, and now deals with the fact that 'Karen' was hurt, rather than 'it' was hurt. Second, Elaine also got angry - about four days after the accident. It was cathartic. It purged her of what was built up within her. She readily admits, as I do, that it was not a fair thing to do, but had to get rid of the pent up emotions. This has served to do so. Tuesday November 21 Karen has been taken off of the respirator, and the tubes in her mouth have also been removed. She still wears an oxygen mask (30% oxygen is being used partly because she is asthmatic), but she is now free for the first time to move her lips and jaw. It is a joy to see her smile from time to time! Of major interest to me is that she has begun being weaned from her morphine and appears to be tolerating the pain better and better. Further, she is self-medicating! That is, they gave her a control that allows her to add morphine when she needs it. Unlike earlier fears that patients would abuse this capability, studies have shown that they do not - that they actually tend to diminish dosage to themselves faster than the doctors would have. Karen cannot talk yet, her throat is still swollen from the tubes that were just removed. But she nods and shakes her head appropriately, the pupils are more dilated than they have been, she focuses on the speakers around her, she uses her right hand to squeeze any hand holding hers, and to point and control her medication, she moves her right leg restlessly, and she is now able to wiggle the toes of her left foot! These are all very positive improvements. The doctors, when asked if our daily visits to her are too tiring, responded that the lady sleeps 18 hours a day and can and does easily tolerate our visits. More, she looks forward to them and they are improving her image of herself. Similarly, upon receipt of the first batch of get well cards from those of you that sent them (from all over the country as well as Canada!), she has done better still! We have read each one of them to her and she acknowledges each with a smile and a nod of her head. Today she receives a present - a walkman radio/tape player. We are going to the library to get some books on tape for her. She emphatically nodded when we asked if she would like us to do that for her, so that is on the list of to-do's for the day. Karen now knows that she is badly hurt. She has not been told, yet, the extent of her injuries, but she is one smart lady and has figured most of it out for herself. She was obviously a little sad last night but worked mightily to keep that under control. Today at noon her doctors will meet with the family to discuss her prognosis and to review her treatment. The family is anxious but have observed that over the past nine days there has only been one day in which there was not significant improvement in Karen's condition. Eight out of nine days of positive news may be lulling them into a false set of hopes, so the doctors want them to come back to reality today. In a few days the doctors will talk with Karen about her leg. It is still not clear that they can save the leg, though that certainly looks good at the moment. They have decided that they need Karen to be part of the decision process on what to do about it. In many ways it will be easier for Karen if the leg is removed, but that is going to be partly her decision. ____________________________________________________________ To Be Continued

Title: Re: Squids. Post by gcsdls on 05/31/12 at 06:40:09 Thanks Starlifter.  Yes, I am interested.  Now that I know it's not current, I wonder if she still needs prayer...but I guess that's a stupid question.  We all need it all the time.  :)  Looking forward to more....

Title: Re: Squids. Post by 2stroketim on 05/31/12 at 11:35:18 Wolfman - Have a talk with your SIL - but have some ammo ready.  Your daughter is riding on the back of his bike - you need to feel assured that he is not going to crash.   Give him a short Q&A regarding some basic motorcycle riding stuff and some mechanical stuff.  (2 fingers on the clutch and brake at all times or not? One foot down at a stop light or both?  Neutral at a stop light or first gear? Etc.)  Just because he passed the DMV course doesn't mean he can ride.  My building is behind the local DMV, and I watch people drop their bikes on the course and still pass. Go to this conversation with ammo, like I said.  Print some stuff out.  There is a lot of info from more credible sites than here. (Sorry guys, but it's the truth) When he is wrong about something, show it to him in black and white. IE: Have him Google "GREMLIN BELLS" like this: http://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=gremlin+bell&oq=gremlin+bell&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0l4.862.2952.0.3111.12.8.0.4.4.0.100.421.7j1.8.0...0.0.d-4PlMBl7dU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=eca895e615b51afc&biw=1360&bih=649 Then, have him Google his DEMON BELLS - http://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=demon+bells&oq=demon+bells&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=hp.3...3278.3278.1.3835.1.1.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0...0.0.1uCO5JFgV6A&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=eca895e615b51afc&biw=1360&bih=649 See where I'm going here?  You've got to show a person like that things in black and white to prove that they are wrong.  Make a list, do your homework, and set the boy straight.   Take the MSF course WITH him.  I have taken the beginner class twice and the Inter. class.  Anyone who says they won't learn something from the class is a complete effing idiot and deserves to slide into a curb. Explain to him that you DO have a stake in his riding - namely, your daughter.  If he doesn't like he can go pound sand. All that being said - I rode to work today, on my hardtail chop, in shorts, t-shirt, and skid lid.  I get the whole "youthful immortality" thing.  I have been on 2 wheels since I was 7 or 8 riding a YZ Zinger 50.  I have had sport bikes, customs, cruisers, thumpers, mopeds, dirt bikes etc.  My current stable is an 05 YZ125, an 06 YZ250, a 79 IT250E, a 2009 DL650 Vstrom, my running 2000 Savage chop, and my non-running 86 project in stock form.  I sometimes ride like a complete jackass.  It's fun.  BUT - I know my abilities and ride within them for the given situation.  Having 2 kids has slowed me down quite a bit - I haven't even wheelied my Savage chop!! My F-I-L had many of the same concerns you do.  I crashed while riding dirt bikes/quads with him a few times.  Here's the difference - I have RESPECT for what the man says to me.  He expressed some concern to me, I dunno, 10 or 11 years ago about riding 2 up when I bought my old V-Star 1100.  I assured him that when riding with my wife, the crazy gets left at home.   I get where you are coming from man - but you need to sit this dude down, and MAKE him listen.  Get the computer out and use it to your advantage.....then remember, you were 24-25 once too.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 05/31/12 at 12:13:16 I was smart enough to listen to dad. Ive done the info thing with the S-I-L and talked till im blue in the face. He don't listen, all i get is the argument and 'his' searchs prove me wrong. Fact is his comment on the 'demon bells' was go google it, he had. 'NO ONE' calls em gremlin bells. See what im dealing with? Ive done loonnggg talks with him on skills and teniques. Get told im wrong. Guys at work say different. Sounds like he works with a couple of squids. About the ONLY way im going to MAKE him listen is knock him down, set on his chest and beat him black and blue...lol Thankfully the daughter said last night that the one time was the only time she was going to ride on the bike. Guess he scared her a bit more and maybe she listened and read some of the info i sent her. Or she's just lieing to me to get me off her back. Im just hopeing when he does put it down its a low speed low side. Funny thing is he's 'massively skilled' but was afraid to ride home in the rain last night. Wanted her to come get him if it was raining. ::)

Title: Re: Squids. Post by 2stroketim on 05/31/12 at 14:01:22 It sounds like the dude needs an attitude check if you ask me.  His wife shoulda told him to ride his ass home rain or shine. I have very litter tolerance for people like that.  My mind is always open, and while I do know a fair amount about the world of motorcycles, I am no guru.  I'm 35 and still feel like I'm 22.  Still think like I'm 22 sometimes.  Difference is - I've been fortunate enough to have my bullshit called out enough to know when to shut up and listen.  Your SIL has not. Good luck with that one dude.  I still say you need to make him take the MSF course.  Either that, or get him around some people that really do know what they are talking about.....go to a MC show and see how much he spouts...

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 05/31/12 at 14:12:15 He don't 'Need' the msf course, to skilled. ::) I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get him into a bunch of old experienced cruiser riders. Then just goad him a lil and set back and watch him get his ears bobbed. D@mn shame a daughter don't still need a dads permission to marry a guy...lol Old saying i used to tout in my firearms courses. "Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever."

Title: Re: Squids. Post by 2stroketim on 05/31/12 at 14:14:22 Well.....ya can't fix stupid man.  It's a shame I don;t live closer to ya, we could "meet" at a local watering hole for some edumakation.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Starlifter on 05/31/12 at 18:45:34 (Karen's story) Tuesday November 21 continued. Karen is definitely into humor at the moment. When I quipped that we seem to have run out of mountains for her to fall off (a reminder of the skiing accident that she had several years earlier), she smiles. When I told her that I needed her to get better real soon so that I could once again have to deal with having to fight off another redhead (Elaine is also a redhead), she smiles. When I told her that, 'by the way, you broke your bike', she nods and smirks. She is more alert than her appearance suggests and these are ample indications that it was wise not to talk about her when we were near her, even when it looked like she was not able to hear us. Wednesday November 22 Last night I visited Karen and am pleased to report that she is now talking! The doctors had a lengthy discussion with her in the morning and they have concluded that the leg is to be saved! Today, Karen will have a muscle removed from her back and placed into her left leg just above the knee. Skin grafts will also be started. Further, they are working on her left wrist at the same time. Karen is pretty scared about all that she faces, but seems to understand that it is necessary. Little things, however, seem to bother her now - when the nurse pokes her with a needle to take a blood sample she reacts like it is a major invasion. No wonder - she has been finding positions and ways to deal with ongoing discomfort only to have to deal with a new 'problem'. She understands the needs, just wishes it were all over already. Anyway, she got her walkman yesterday and it has been very well received by her. Time passes much more pleasantly with it. She perked up in response to an observation I made yesterday. It seemed like such a little thing to me at the time. I merely said that she goes into and out of sleep easily, sometimes with 10 seconds between the time she closes her eyes and when she wakes up, sometimes with 10 hours between. In any event, one thing I'll bet she has already discovered: Every time she wakes up she is doing a little better. This little observation was important to her for some reason. She seemed unusually satisfied to consider that thought. Wednesday November 22 Last night I visited Karen and am pleased to report that she is now talking! The doctors had a lengthy discussion with her in the morning and they have concluded that the leg is to be saved! Today, Karen will have a muscle removed from her back and placed into her left leg just above the knee. Skin grafts will also be started. Further, they are working on her left wrist at the same time. Karen is pretty scared about all that she faces, but seems to understand that it is necessary. Little things, however, seem to bother her now - when the nurse pokes her with a needle to take a blood sample she reacts like it is a major invasion. No wonder - she has been finding positions and ways to deal with ongoing discomfort only to have to deal with a new 'problem'. She understands the needs, just wishes it were all over already. Anyway, she got her walkman yesterday and it has been very well received by her. Time passes much more pleasantly with it. She perked up in response to an observation I made yesterday. It seemed like such a little thing to me at the time. I merely said that she goes into and out of sleep easily, sometimes with 10 seconds between the time she closes her eyes and when she wakes up, sometimes with 10 hours between. In any event, one thing I'll bet she has already discovered: Every time she wakes up she is doing a little better. This little observation was important to her for some reason. She seemed unusually satisfied to consider that thought. Friday November 24 Last night found Karen a whole world better off than the night before. She is now conscious, taking only the pain killers that she needs, is TALKING, and EATING real food! She has stayed away from talking about the accident, so far, but certainly seems to remember most of what happened. The all day surgery she went through the day before was successful in every way. The muscle removed from her back was implanted into her left thigh, just above the knee, her left wrist was set. and skin grafts were begun. Regular visitors make a big difference to her. She looks forward to those visitations and actively preens herself before we get there - insisting that the nurse wash her face, for example, and comb her hair. She is becoming 'Karen' again. Because of the remarkable improvement in her condition over the past three days, Karen was moved from Shock Trauma ICU to what is called an intermediate care ICU located in another part of the hospital. In other words, her life is no longer in imminent danger. We are all very pleased for her. To demonstrate how things have changed over the past few days, I began a bit of teasing last night. "You know I love my redheads, all of them, don't you? Even those that are not real redheads. Nobody, of course, especially me, has noticed that you are not a real redhead. Honest! Trust me! That's my story and I'm sticking with it!" Her response: "I've heard that one before. Could you get me some ice chips to suck on, please?" Yep, she's getting back to herself. Wednesday November 29 It is hard to realize that this gal was touch and go only a week ago. Last night the doctors announced that they think she is done with any more operations, at least for the duration of her stay at the hospital. (Later grafting operations are certain.) It happens that about 25% of skin grafts die and must be redone. In Karen's case they have all seemed to take without rejection of any kind. (You will recall that I commented that she was healthy, active and strong before the accident. Clearly it made a difference!) For those of you that have never experienced it, a phenomena that often happens to patients in an ICU is called 'ICU psychosis'. This is a drug induced mix-up of dream and reality that the patient is incapable of differentiating. That is, they believe that what they 'remember' actually happened, regardless of how bizarre or irrational it seems to be. [In my own case, I was convinced that the nurses in my hospital were actually vampires who took selected patients out into the trees at night and offed them!] Well, today it was manifest in Karen's case. The person that was driving the truck that she hit was finally able to bring himself to call Karen on the phone to inquire how she was doing. It was not a satisfactory phone call in any way. When he told her who he was, she lit into him with vigor. She wanted to know why he thought she would care to hear or talk to the person that 'ran her off the freeway!' Rather than argue with her, the man graciously ended the conversation and hung up. Elaine was told about this and called him back to explain what had happened. Anyway, she was NOT on a freeway at the time of the accident, he did not run her off the road or hit her bike - she hit him! We all know that and had thought that with her general reluctance to talk about the accident that she was beginning to remember most of what had happened. Instead, 'ICU psychosis' got hold of her and convinced her that she knew what had happened even though it could not have happened the way she 'remembers' it. Her boyfriend discussed this with her last night and advised that in fact she does not remember what happened. That that was OK, for now, if she wanted to keep it that way, and that he would be willing to tell her everything he knew about the accident if she wanted to know now, but suggested that she should actually wait until I could be there to tell it to her since I was the only person that saw it happen. Karen readily agreed to wait until I could brief her fully. Anyway, she is eating whatever they bring her now. She has seen the scar down her abdomen and accepted it as being 'tolerable'. She has seen the scarring on the right leg resulting from the removal of some skin for grafting onto her left leg and finds that 'tolerable'. Has closely inspected the fast healing scar over her left eyebrow and agrees that it is 'insignificant'. She has not seen the extent of damage that was done to her left leg yet, but has intellectualized it - knows it is profound. Since the healing is progressing so swiftly now on her left leg the doctors are about to change how it is dressed. The result will be much smaller bulk. This, so they can easily change her dressing without having to take her out of her room (which they can now do because she no longer has to visit the operating room.) Believe this or not, there is now ongoing discussions about whether to release her from the hospital before or after Christmas! There is no serious doubt any longer that she will be able to leave prior to Christmas, but the argument revolves around the expected desire on Karen's part to be TOO active during the holidays if she is at home. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Be Continued

Title: Re: Squids. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/31/12 at 21:07:47 Squid today calamari tomorri

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 06/01/12 at 00:33:19 That next road pizza you see may well be the S-I-L...lol Real shame of it is that shadow is a nice looking bike. Gonna bung it all up when he does over ride his skills. Im hopeing he's talking more chit then he's got b@lls to try and pull off. Ive done my best talking to him and the daughter says she's staying off. So ive relaxed a lil bit, not a lot, but the knot in my head and gut has relaxed. This weekend looks good for a good long ride temp wise. May go look up an old buddy and see if his 1200 sportster can keep up in the curves...lol

Title: Re: Squids. Post by SuperSavage on 06/01/12 at 00:49:50 Make sure your daughter adheres to ATGATT.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Starlifter on 06/01/12 at 19:04:49 Karens Story Continued Thursday December 7 I visited Karen in the hospital tonight. She looks and acts like an 'outpatient' now. One of the doctors had a long talk with her this morning and explained that she came VERY VERY close to losing her leg. She responded by telling him that she was well aware of that and since she still has it, she intends to get it back to useful status as soon as possible. (The doctor told her that it was only because she had a pulse in her toes that they decided to try to save the leg - that they had been prepared to and perfectly willing to take the leg based on the severity of damage to it, but that they deferred that decision for as long as possible in the slim hope that it would remain 'vital' and maintain blood flow.) She also knows that she came just as close to losing her life. When I told her that I was convinced that keeping herself healthy, in condition, strong from jogging and workouts at the gym, she obviously had greatly increased the odds that her body would fight hard for itself, she smiled and told me that despite all the quips others had given her about her obsessive behavior (keeping physically fit), and the memory of the 'pain' she experienced on long runs or hard workouts, it was all worth it and deserves the last laugh because it 'worked'. Great attitude also seems to have played a part it this virtually miraculous change of her condition over the past three weeks. They are working on finding a resident 'Rehab' facility for her to move to within the next three weeks. She is expected to have to work at least three hours a day on getting her leg to function again and they still have no idea if they will be able to get any function out of her left knee when it is all done. She will have to be in that resident Rehab for about two months (unless she can work out having 24 hour a day 'care' at her apartment.) The leg is healing very well and the second major round of skin grafts was done yesterday. There is still the problem of a two-inch piece of thigh bone that is missing just above her knee. They have not joined the ends of the bones that are in place (though they have pinned them in alignment.) It is possible that they will add a two-inch section of pig bone (honest) or, if it is found that she cannot tolerate such a procedure, they may simply join the ends of the bone that are there leaving the left leg two-inches shorter than it should be and having to go back in in a year or so to correct that problem. Karen, of course, would prefer that they add the bone and be done with it. Karen had most all of the tubes removed from her body this morning. This, in preparation for getting her to be mobile. She is no longer on intravenous medication of any kind, and even after the skin graft operation that they did yesterday, she is now only taking pain medication orally, and darn little of it (her choice.) We finally got to talk about what happened. She is beginning to remember bits and pieces of that day and after my review of the facts, she was amazed to learn that she had had a friend visiting her in Houston from Canada who was along as my passenger at the time of the accident. She simply had no recollection that that woman had been here at all until we discussed the day with her. Five days ago she was demonstrating an 'attitude' - she didn't know what had happened to her, didn't know who was at fault, didn't 'care', didn't want to know. Now she knows basically what happened and accepted my assertion that the truck did not hit her but that she hit it. Now she is dealing with the realities of the experience basically from an academic point of view - she is not really very interested in 'reliving' the experience or learning from it - she just wants to fill in the holes in her memory and then get on with the healing process. I am impressed more and more as I witness this lady deal with her situation. Friday December 8 A meeting was held with Karen yesterday to put together a rehab plan. Rehab will begin as of the 13th and will last three weeks at the hospital. Then, instead of needing 24 hour resident support, Karen will be allowed to go home. She will not have to go to a resident rehab center for the three months that had been originally anticipated. The rehab objectives for this coming three week effort consists of teaching her how to get out of bed and into a wheel chair, moving from a wheel chair to another chair, and from her wheel chair to and from bathroom facilities. None of that sounds awesome unless you are on Karen's end of the equation. These are the fundamental skills that allow Karen to leave 'bedridden' status and to obviate the need for 24 hour resident support. Thus, it looks like Karen will not quite get home before Christmas, but it will be close and is still possible. She is ecstatic! Why wait until the 13th to start? Because the ribs on her left side have not yet had opportunity to heal. They were virtually all fractured in the accident and because she had such other major trauma they did not bind her chest. Those ribs were manipulated into proper position, and then Karen, not her chest, was rendered immobile so that they could knit in place. The ribs are very close to being 'well' now, and are certain to be strong enough by the 13th. Monday Christmas Day Karen and her boyfriend visited with Elaine last night (and stayed the night). Karen was walking with a walker and had her wheelchair for help. She did FINE! The only negative for the evening was that the hospital sent her out on her 24 hour pass without any pain medication. Karen managed with a few aspirin. She looked good, acted very pleased to be out, if only for a day, and didn't complain the whole night. Merry Christmas to all!!!! Tuesday January 4 Karen was to have her last surgery this afternoon, to graft bone taken from her pelvic bone into her left leg, to make up the nearly four inches of femur she lost in the wreck (two inches of bone were left at the scene and each of the remaining ends had to be 'trimmed' nearly another inch.) She was a little apprehensive and has been told to keep the pain killers close by for the next three days or so... but she did so well during her stint in rehab that she won't need to go back when this operation is done. You will recall from an earlier 'Condition Update' that the doctor's had no idea if she would ever be able to make use of her left leg again or, if so, if she would ever be able to even bend her knee. During her many rehab sessions Karen absolutely astonished her doctors and nurses. She worked thru the pain and managed a 55 degree flex of her left knee! The doctors are estimating another week in the hospital, and she's to be sent home for good. "Let's get it over with!" was her view. Wednesday January 5 The bone graft went very well! Two bone 'plugs' were taken from her hip, then 'shaped' and pinned in place (after first cleaning and 'shaping' the ends of the femur that had been shattered in the accident.) A total of about three inches of bone were needed of which her pelvis supplied over two. Thus, Karen's left leg will be slightly shorter than it was prior to the accident - but it exists! Friday January 12 The day has finally arrived. Karen was released from the hospital today! In order to get an idea as to her priorities at this moment, Karen did not go directly home. Instead, she was driven directly to a beauty parlor where she is having her hair and fingernails done. Sounds fair to me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There was more blood and gore and much more detail about a real life trauma than you probably wanted in this case study. On the other hand, you only saw 18 messages about it - Elaine and I visited with Karen virtually every day following the accident, and Karen has lived thru this nightmare, and will continue to do so for the rest of her life. Why? Because taking safety information casually can put you in Karen's place, or worse! The tips and techniques that I have posted here are meant to influence the way you think and act, not to be casually considered. Karen had years of experience, had recently completed her MSF training, insisted that her boyfriend attend the MSF class before he could ride with us, thought about safety in a serious way, and surrounded herself with people who she knew to be safety conscious in the extreme. She had heard her MSF instructor talk about 'target fixation' and understood what it was all about - but apparently did not relate it to anything but pothole avoidance. Target Fixation is not so trivial as that, and now you know it without any doubt at all. Hopefully that means someday we will meet on the rode and stop for a chat over some coffee. We are, after all, family. You cannot enjoy tomorrow's ride if you do not survive thru tonight. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Be Continied Next part - the following years

Title: Re: Squids. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/02/12 at 06:30:23 Seriously, I wasnt being flip about the life/health insurance on that guy. If he gets killed, your daughter is gonna need some $$$, but if he just gets hurt real bad & gimped up for life, they may need a Whoole Lotta $$$. It doesnt sound like youll need to pay the premiums for too long before youll know if he is gonna self destruct out there.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Boofer on 06/02/12 at 07:51:31 Wolfman, you aren't going to like this, but you may need it. I didn't read all the posts, but I can say this: You can't give a 30 yr old lady a "good talking to" and have a daughter who trusts and loves you. She will rightfully stand up for her husband, even though he may get her killed. You also mention "making" them listen and quit their actions. My daughter turns 15 next week and I have just about finished our bonding process. From now on it's a shared responsibility. When she's 30 I can only help with HER permission. Your attitude toward your doctors, the hospital, and insurance company when you got hurt pretty much tells me you talk more than you listen. I suggest you get over whatever is causing your control issues and sit down with your daughter and son-in-law and let them talk. Don't get mad and let them know you are there to listen. LISTEN. It won't happen overnight, but it can be done. Use whatever means make you happy, but throwing gas on the fire rarely helps. You have my prayers and best wishes. Boofer

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Wolfman on 06/02/12 at 11:32:54 Control issues Boofer? You don't know me at all. I generaly let people make their own bed and lie in it. As for my 30 year old daughter, as with any father that cares i do try to talk sense to her. When you've got a 30 year old daughter putting her life at risk YOU will do the same thing. If you care about her. Permission?? You don't ask permission. You offer your help and advice and they either take it or leave. Like i said, you don't know me AT ALL. When your daughters 30 and marries a 24 year old know it all that acts like hes 16 come back and talk to me. Don't act like you know me or my personality by the few posts ive made here on the forum. I really hate it when people make assumptions about someone they have never met personally. And the bonding process dosen't stop at 15. It continues for life.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Boofer on 06/02/12 at 15:18:20 My daughter and I will continue to build our love over the years, but I will have less and less to say about the way she runs her life. I'm always there to pick up the pieces. I'll always worry, too. One of her problems is that she depends too much on us now, so we have to make her become more independent some way. Sorry if I misjudged you. He is her husband, even if he is wild. My mother-in-law took a dislike to me 35 yrs ago. No one in the family knows why, but it has caused a source of drama in our otherwise non dramatic marriage. She halfway apologized a couple of years ago, but no one trusts her now to keep from taking a verbal swipe at me. Bad memories last a long time. Tread carefully.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by martinfilms34 on 06/02/12 at 20:22:40 Honestly,  the way some people ride amaze me. And in a bad way. I see guys on their new chromed out Harleys riding with nothing but shorts and a t shirt. Its just plain out stupid! If you have any concern for your own life and safety at least wear a helmet! A dot approved helmet. Road Rash, in alot of cases, is curable, although very expensive and painful. But a head injury at 60+ mph is gonna leave you dead. Or worse. My advice, even though I may be to young to give it haha, is to keep trying with him. Even if he is a squid he is still considered part of your family. Even if he doesn't listen don't stop trying because I believe that as a father you have the responsibility to look after your daughter, and that also extends to him, as he is a part of your daughters life. Tell him stories, ask him to atleast wear a DOT approved helmet. 3/4 or full face preferably. And don't stop until he does. Even if he just decides to wear one to stop you from saying it, he'll be happy he did when he takes a spill and hits his head. Just my 2 cents

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Starlifter on 06/02/12 at 21:50:52 Tell him to read Karen's story begining to end...if he can read.

Title: Re: Squids. Post by Starlifter on 06/02/12 at 21:54:07 Karen's Story--Conclusion It has been almost six months since the accident and I thought a follow up would be appreciated regarding Karen's condition. Three months ago, though she was mobile, her movements were largely limited by the fact that she had to use a walker to get around. A rather severe infection had set into the left knee and there was fear that they would have to operate again on it to clean it out. Instead, the doctors put her on a huge dosage of medication that she has taken daily to this very day (5/3/96). The infection is gone! She is to finish her current supply of the pills and no more. Two months ago the walker was ditched and a cane replaced it. Her left hand was almost fully functional again though she was unable to touch her little finger tip with her thumb - but there is strength again in the hand and she is starting to type with it. Last month she essentially ditched the cane. She now walks without any assistance whatever, though she is still unable to straighten her left leg fully. Similarly, though she is walking without aid, she is only able to touch her left heel to the ground with effort. She walks on the balls of her left foot. For strength rebuilding, Karen has started her weight training again. She goes to the gym three days a week and her trainer has received special training himself on working with severely injured people. Karen is doing very well indeed with this activity. As to mobility, Karen now drives a car (just did a 200 mile trip to Dallas and returned a couple of days later by herself.) Oh, and last month she mounted a GoldWing, as passenger, and was taken to lunch by the Lone Star Ladies of Houston. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eighteen months after the accident ... Though I had thought this case study was over, it is not. For the past three months Karen has been working in Alaska. Two weeks ago she returned to Houston - the condition of her leg having been the principal reason for her return. It turns out that though her accident happened 1 and 1/2 years ago, the bone infection she developed at the time of the accident has never healed. Last weekend she underwent her sixth operation in an attempt to clean out that infection. That operation did not go well. Apparently some of the infection managed to get into her blood stream. The hospital had to perform a complete transfusion to get rid of it. Her heart stopped during the procedure and they had to shock her back to life. During the operation they also had to take another couple of inches of bone out of her leg. After all this time and all these operations it now looks like Karen is going to lose her leg. It is still possible that this will not be required, but the doctors suggest that the odds are against her being able to keep it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Two years after the accident .. . Date: November 2005 Miracles happen. The first one happened at the time of the accident. Though there was massive damage to her leg, the main arteries in Karen's leg were not severed. The second was during her first stay at the hospital - she survived the trauma. The third happened in Alaska. Karen's leg bones remained infected (osteomyalitis) for over a year and antibiotics simply were not up to the job of killing that infection. While in Alaska Karen underwent yet another operation because of that infection. Her doctor there happened to mention that a world famous persistent infection specialist was in Houston. He arranged for Karen to meet the man and Karen returned to Houston as a result. Several months of hyberbaric treatments in Galveston (70 miles south of Houston) resulted in conquering the infection. The fourth was during an operation six months ago - Karen's heart stopped yet they managed to revive her. The fifth is that as a result of care from the doctor team in Galveston, Karen's leg bone has grown about two inches! The thigh bone has grown that much, but not quite straight down. But that can be corrected and Karen is about to undergo her 19th operation this week to do just that. And, while in there, the doctors are going to do the last bone graft. The result should be that her leg will be once again, finally, the same length as her undamaged leg. Yep, the leg has been saved! Now for the sixth miracle - The enormity of scar tissue that she has had to deal with for the past two years has diminished until it is now only about ONE-THIRD the size it once was - and what scar tissue exists is both softer and smoother than it has ever been. While it will never be all gone, a little more plastic surgery and this gal will be able to look back at the ordeal as history rather than constantly with her. Your prayers have helped. Thank you all. [The 19th operation went without a hitch. Two more plugs were taken from her hip and used to lengthen the femur. The bones are pinned in place and though not quite straight, can be straightened over time. (There will be another operation - number 20 - to finish the job sometime near the end of February.) There was no evidence of bone infection. Karen is home and recuperating. She plans to spend this coming Christmas with family in Dallas. The worst, by far, is behind her now.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exactly four years after the accident ... Date: November 2007 Next year there are at least two more operations to have to undergo. This past year, which had started with great promise, resulted in exactly zero progress, though not from a lack of trying on the part of both Karen and her doctors. ________________________________________________________________ Eight years after the accident ... Date: September 2011 It's been eight years. There have been 31 operations since this began and all is still not right. Nevertheless, Karen's courage and efforts are amply shown in the following - a note she sent to her friends today:   Hi friends and family,   This is to share the latest news with you about my progress in healing.   On Sat, Sept 20, I did my first "Fun Run" 5k in over 8 years. Didn't set any land "speed" records   but wasn't the last one through the gate either.   Next challenge is the Susan B. Komen 5K in October..   I thank ALL of you for your continued support and prayers these past 8 years.   May God Bless you all.   Love,   Karen J

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